The difference between capitalism and socialism in a nutshell

[Contumacious]

Regulated capitalism helps mitigate this damage and prevent self interest from poisoning the public.

Capitalism is ALWAYS regulated by the invisible hand of the marketplace.

Whether or not a product or service survives depend on people voting DEMOCRATICALLY using their dollars.


But as a parasitic tax consumer the type of regulation that you seek is governmental, thereby converting Capitalism into FASCISM.

Fascism is good because bureaucratic intervention ensures that the parasites, which always constitute a majority , are fed, clothed, insured, educated and their thirst is quenched.


.

 

[kaz]

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Government Marriage protects the legal rights of the people involved.

the only reason you are against government marriage now is they are letting gays into the club.

LOL, this is why even though you meet all the criteria to be on my ignore list, I keep you around. Ditto PaintMyHouse and Seawytch. Your anger, projection and complete lack of self awareness is just hilarious.

So, with all the government I oppose, I do want government marriage. But damn it, if gays can get it I don't want it for anyone. That makes sense to you. Of course it's because I"m anti-gay, Christian and Republican. Actually I'm none of those.

Carry on, Dexter, you're a hoot.

 

[kaz]

Polls are PEOPLE idiot. Even young Republicans support gay marriage.

Young people are very influenced by their peer and highly susceptible to propaganda. We learn to see through bullshit when we gain life experiences. At least those of us that mature, liberals think it's cute to stay immature.

So I am still awaiting for you to enlighten us all as to why gay marriage would be a bad thing.

Because most of your arguments boil down to "I think it's icky" and "My Imaginary Sky Pixie says it's bad."

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples Resources Human Rights Campaign

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

 

[JoeB131]

LOL, this is why even though you meet all the criteria to be on my ignore list, I keep you around. Ditto PaintMyHouse and Seawytch. Your anger, projection and complete lack of self awareness is just hilarious.

So, with all the government I oppose, I do want government marriage. But damn it, if gays can get it I don't want it for anyone. That makes sense to you. Of course it's because I"m anti-gay, Christian and Republican. Actually I'm none of those.

Like I said, most libertarians have the mentality of a five year old who won't share his crayons.

Again, you want the protections of a civilized society, and none of the obligations.

 

[JoeB131]

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

I'm not seeing how two people getting the legal protections of marriage affects single people at all.

What extra rights do you think married people are getting, exactly?

 

[SwimExpert]

According to Forbes, Sweden is more business friendly than the US.

Some socialism, huh?

Best Countries for Business

That list is from 2011. Here is the most recent one, for 2014. Denmark is now in the lead, with Canada slipping back to 6th. The United States is sliding further and further, now at 18th.

Best Countries for Business - Forbes

 

[Contumacious]

LOL, this is why even though you meet all the criteria to be on my ignore list, I keep you around. Ditto PaintMyHouse and Seawytch. Your anger, projection and complete lack of self awareness is just hilarious.

So, with all the government I oppose, I do want government marriage. But damn it, if gays can get it I don't want it for anyone. That makes sense to you. Of course it's because I"m anti-gay, Christian and Republican. Actually I'm none of those.

Like I said, most libertarians have the mentality of a five year old who won't share his crayons.

Again, you want the protections of a civilized society, and none of the obligations.

HUH?

WTF?

DO NOT confuse Libertarians with left or right wing fascists.

Libertarians do not give a shit if you like being butt-fucked. To each his own.

Libertarians do not understand why two adult individuals seek the blessings of bureaucrats in order to considered themselves married. That's all.

.

.

 

[Skylar]

Regulated capitalism helps mitigate this damage and prevent self interest from poisoning the public.

Capitalism is ALWAYS regulated by the invisible hand of the marketplace.

Says who?

Whether or not a product or service survives depend on people voting DEMOCRATICALLY using their dollars.

That assumes that there's multiple products to choose from. And that there is a level playing field in competition. Neither of which are necessarily true in unregulated capitalism.

And of course, nothing you've posted in anyway addresses or mitigated the severe environmental damage caused by capitalism. Or its inherent instabiity. Or its tendency toward anti-competitive practices.

But as a parasitic tax consumer the type of regulation that you seek is governmental, thereby converting Capitalism into FASCISM.

Fascism is pretty specific. It involves dictatorship, state sanctioned racism, belligerent nationalism, suppression of the press and free speech, forcible oppression of opposition and criticism, state control of all means of production, vast societal controls, etc.

And that's not regulated capitalism.

You're using 'fascism' as a generic pejorative. But your use of the term doesn't match the meaning of the term, even remotely.

 

[Bfgrn]

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

You mean brainwash yourself. Marriage isn't a person. It's a relationship. Relationships are not a protected class, nor are they "equal". How could they be? You have the freedom of association but the Constitution doesn't guarantee that each state will consider your associations equal to anyone else's.

Hey pea brain, marriage IS protected by government. There are 1,138 benefits, rights and protections provided on the basis of marital status in Federal law. And numerous rights and protections under state laws.

WHY are you so fucking ignorant pea brain?

 

[Contumacious]

Regulated capitalism helps mitigate this damage and prevent self interest from poisoning the public.

Capitalism is ALWAYS regulated by the invisible hand of the marketplace.

Says who?

What do you call a socioeconomic system which is ALWAYS regulated by the invisible hand of the marketplace.

Whether or not a product or service survives depend on people voting DEMOCRATICALLY using their dollars.

That assumes that there's multiple products to choose from. And that there is a level playing field in competition. Neither of which are necessarily true in unregulated capitalism.

If there are no corrupt demagogue bureaucrats intervening in the economy WHY wouldn't the playing field be level?

And of course, nothing you've posted in anyway addresses or mitigated the severe environmental damage caused by capitalism. Or its inherent instabiity. Or its tendency toward anti-competitive practices.

What severe environmental damage was caused by Capitalism? How can something which has not been allowed to exist by the socialism/fascism/parasitism axis of evil cause damage?

But as a parasitic tax consumer the type of regulation that you seek is governmental, thereby converting Capitalism into FASCISM.

Fascism is pretty specific.

No it isn't.

The fascists may decide to control 10% of the rights or 90% - rights depend on bureaucratic discretion. So what rights people enjoy are subject to bureaucratic arbitrariness.

It involves dictatorship, state sanctioned racism, belligerent nationalism, suppression of the press and free speech, forcible oppression of opposition and criticism, state control of all means of production, vast societal controls, etc.

Only the German model was racist. The Japanese nor the Italian were.


.

 

[Bfgrn]

Polls are PEOPLE idiot. Even young Republicans support gay marriage.

Young people are very influenced by their peer and highly susceptible to propaganda. We learn to see through bullshit when we gain life experiences. At least those of us that mature, liberals think it's cute to stay immature.

So I am still awaiting for you to enlighten us all as to why gay marriage would be a bad thing.

Because most of your arguments boil down to "I think it's icky" and "My Imaginary Sky Pixie says it's bad."

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples Resources Human Rights Campaign

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around rights like my spouse and I being able to file joint tax returns? Rights like Head of Household Status that allows increased standard deduction that, among other things, provides increased funds to care for dependents? Estate tax exemptions for a spouse?

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

 

[Kosh]

Young people are very influenced by their peer and highly susceptible to propaganda. We learn to see through bullshit when we gain life experiences. At least those of us that mature, liberals think it's cute to stay immature.

So I am still awaiting for you to enlighten us all as to why gay marriage would be a bad thing.

Because most of your arguments boil down to "I think it's icky" and "My Imaginary Sky Pixie says it's bad."

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples Resources Human Rights Campaign

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around rights like my spouse and I being able to file joint tax returns? Rights like Head of Household Status that allows increased standard deduction that, among other things, provides increased funds to care for their dependents? Estate tax exemptions for a spouse?

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

The racist/bigoted far left drones and ironic comments!

 

[Skylar]

For the enlightenment of liberals who consistently don't get this

Capitalism is economic freedom. Consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals, we make our own choices for our own interest. That drives market efficiency which benefits everyone. The primary role of government in capitalism is to provide civil courts to redress civil crimes (e.g., breach of contract) and criminal courts to redress crimes (e.g., fraud).

An informed buyer/employee is best served with complete and accurate information. I consider it a legitimate role for government to require accurate disclosures. So for example I oppose government forcing a business to hire or serve blacks. However, I am in favor of government forcing them to disclose that clearly and accurately to other potential employees or customers. I also consider it legitimate for government to enforce accurate advertising, whether products were tested or not and how thoroughly, that sort of thing. Government should not force them to do those things, but it can require them to disclose accurately what they did and didn't do to facilitate better buying decisions.

Socialism is central economic planning. Central economic planning means that consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals must make decisions that are not in their own interest. Otherwise central planning would not be required, capitalism would yield the same result. And the only way to get people to act against their own interest is force, and only the government can use force.

Various forms of socialism are full socialism where all industry is owned by government, fascism where industry is technically in private ownership but all decisions are dictated or approved by government and crony capitalism where government helps the businesses in quid pro quo fashion where the businesses fund the politicians and the politicians write laws to assist those businesses. In all those cases, planning is central and enforced by government guns to force the people to act against their own interest. To the people, they are the same, you have the choices government gives you.

Banksters are the worker's best friend. They keep their money safe, and even pay interest (<1%) and loan other peoples money out too. Yet, how much do they charch for credit? 12,15,18 and more percent! Isn't capitalism great, for Banksters and the investment class. Not so much for small businesses and individuals those who rarely turn one dollar in 12, 15, 18 and more.

^ Has absolutely zero private sector experience

Really? How do you know? Well, you don't know much, and in this case you demonstrate what a fool you are. I don't need to own a bank, or work in a bank to have experience with banks and mortgage brokers (which I why I use a credit union and buy property's with the aid of a mortgage banker I know and trust).

Anyone who has bought property knows the profit built into the documents they sign, priced way beyond their actual value. Anyone who has bought a car, knows the closer will try to sell add ons making the cost 5 to 10 percent higher than the original price.
When such items are refused, the car will not be available for a couple of days so they can remove, for example, the four bolts holding on the $350 mud flaps.

I know because we both know you don't know dick about the private sector. You're making shit up, just repeating stupid Marxist phrases and ideas.

Banksters? Seriously?

No moron, I'm not parroting Marx or anyone else. If I use a quote from someone else, I put it in quote marks and provide a link to the source. Unlike idiots and fools like you, who call anyone who criticizes capitalism a Communist, a conclusion built on a bed of ignorance and framed by bigotry.

Communism is a theory whose time has long passed. Much like the Republican Party, a political movement cannot last long when what is promised is never produced.

Our economic system needs reform, not replacement. All of us need to recognize that the greater threat to our political and social structure is not Communism, it is the movement to make our mixed economy into one with less and less oversight, and concentrating more and more of the wealth into the hands of the few.

Exactly. 'Communism' is this vague boogeyman being used almost exclusively by people that have no idea what it is, or how its implemented. They talk of the 'incrementalism' of communism. Despite the fact that communism is never been implemented in such a fashion, but always suddenly through revolution. Ask them to describe communism, and they get vaguer still. "Communism' is just another pejorative to many of the folks that drop the term.

The dangers to our liberties faced today have nothing to do with 'communism', but instead the vast political and private power consolidate into very few individuals. There are studies of our recent history that demonstrate that the will of the average american has no statistical relationship to political and legislative policy outcomes. While the will of well financed special interest groups and the wealthy have a powerful stastical relationship. You could make a strong argument that right now, we're an oligarchy.

Any concentration of power will be abused unless checked by one of two possible methods: 1) Other centers of power to balance it 2) Power being made ridiculously difficult to exercise through diffusion.

And despite the vast political and private power wielded by a mere handful of citizens, many on the right argue that they should have greater influence on our politics, with fewer restrictions on private power and the dismantling of most if not all of the regulations that limit the application of such power. Concentrated power will be abused. And concentrating power in fewer hands will simple lead to more abuse.

This is not complicated. This has vast historical precedent.

We are a Plutocracy in the making (given the millionaires in Congress, many argue we have already become one, and as more efforts are made to shrink government (drown it in a bathtub) and thereby create a private sector which polices itself. A system of governance capable of becoming as dystopian as any produced by the Communist Regimes.

And here's the part that's astonishing: the economy does better under regulated capitalism. The recessions are shorter and less severe, the expansions are longer, there is greater wealth for everyone. The environment does better under regulated capitalism. We have clearer air, cleaner water, greater prosperity, longer life spans, and more wealth. And of course a more thriving middle class.

The private sector without restraint is wildly unstable. With greater periods of economic recession and depression, more severe periods, fewer and shorter periods of economic expansion, greater environmental damage, and a shrinking middle class.

Why would anyone, even the rich want the latter over the former?

 

[Kosh]

Banksters are the worker's best friend. They keep their money safe, and even pay interest (<1%) and loan other peoples money out too. Yet, how much do they charch for credit? 12,15,18 and more percent! Isn't capitalism great, for Banksters and the investment class. Not so much for small businesses and individuals those who rarely turn one dollar in 12, 15, 18 and more.

^ Has absolutely zero private sector experience

Really? How do you know? Well, you don't know much, and in this case you demonstrate what a fool you are. I don't need to own a bank, or work in a bank to have experience with banks and mortgage brokers (which I why I use a credit union and buy property's with the aid of a mortgage banker I know and trust).

Anyone who has bought property knows the profit built into the documents they sign, priced way beyond their actual value. Anyone who has bought a car, knows the closer will try to sell add ons making the cost 5 to 10 percent higher than the original price.
When such items are refused, the car will not be available for a couple of days so they can remove, for example, the four bolts holding on the $350 mud flaps.

I know because we both know you don't know dick about the private sector. You're making shit up, just repeating stupid Marxist phrases and ideas.

Banksters? Seriously?

No moron, I'm not parroting Marx or anyone else. If I use a quote from someone else, I put it in quote marks and provide a link to the source. Unlike idiots and fools like you, who call anyone who criticizes capitalism a Communist, a conclusion built on a bed of ignorance and framed by bigotry.

Communism is a theory whose time has long passed. Much like the Republican Party, a political movement cannot last long when what is promised is never produced.

Our economic system needs reform, not replacement. All of us need to recognize that the greater threat to our political and social structure is not Communism, it is the movement to make our mixed economy into one with less and less oversight, and concentrating more and more of the wealth into the hands of the few.

Exactly. 'Communism' is this vague boogeyman being used almost exclusively by people that have no idea what it is, or how its implemented. They talk of the 'incrementalism' of communism. Despite the fact that communism is never been implemented in such a fashion, but always suddenly through revolution. Ask them to describe communism, and they get vaguer still. "Communism' is just another pejorative to many of the folks that drop the term.

The dangers to our liberties faced today have nothing to do with 'communism', but instead the vast political and private power consolidate into very few individuals. There are studies of our recent history that demonstrate that the will of the average american has no statistical relationship to political and legislative policy outcomes. While the will of well financed special interest groups and the wealthy have a powerful stastical relationship. You could make a strong argument that right now, we're an oligarchy.

Any concentration of power will be abused unless checked by one of two possible methods: 1) Other centers of power to balance it 2) Power being made ridiculously difficult to exercise through diffusion.

And despite the vast political and private power wielded by a mere handful of citizens, many on the right argue that they should have greater influence on our politics, with fewer restrictions on private power and the dismantling of most if not all of the regulations that limit the application of such power. Concentrated power will be abused. And concentrating power in fewer hands will simple lead to more abuse.

This is not complicated. This has vast historical precedent.

We are a Plutocracy in the making (given the millionaires in Congress, many argue we have already become one, and as more efforts are made to shrink government (drown it in a bathtub) and thereby create a private sector which polices itself. A system of governance capable of becoming as dystopian as any produced by the Communist Regimes.

And here's the part that's astonishing: the economy does better under regulated capitalism. The recessions are shorter and less severe, the expansions are longer, there is greater wealth for everyone. The environment does better under regulated capitalism. We have clearer air, cleaner water, greater prosperity, longer life spans, and more wealth. And of course a more thriving middle class.

The private sector without restraint is wildly unstable. With greater periods of economic recession and depression, more severe periods, fewer and shorter periods of economic expansion, greater environmental damage, and a shrinking middle class.

Why would anyone, even the rich want the latter over the former?

This coming from the far left drone that believes communist China is capitalism.

 

[Skylar]

Young people are very influenced by their peer and highly susceptible to propaganda. We learn to see through bullshit when we gain life experiences. At least those of us that mature, liberals think it's cute to stay immature.

So I am still awaiting for you to enlighten us all as to why gay marriage would be a bad thing.

Because most of your arguments boil down to "I think it's icky" and "My Imaginary Sky Pixie says it's bad."

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples Resources Human Rights Campaign

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around rights like my spouse and I being able to file joint tax returns? Rights like Head of Household Status that allows increased standard deduction that, among other things, provides increased funds to care for dependents? Estate tax exemptions for a spouse?

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

You're dealing with people that don't give a fuck about outcome. They only care about process. You're talking about all the practical benefits of a particular policy, all the common sense reasons it makes sense, all the ways it benefits the individual and society. How it vastly improves better outcomes.

And he's speaking of purity of process. Where ANY outcome is justified, no matter how horrid, if it follows the 'correct' process. As the process is more important than the people it governs.

You're not going to find common ground on this. You're dealing with the foundational difference between your Unregulated Capitalism ideologues and Regulated Capitalism pragmatists. Or just ideologues and pragmatists. The former is concerned with purity of ideology. The latter, the practical effects of the outcome.

 

[Kosh]

So I am still awaiting for you to enlighten us all as to why gay marriage would be a bad thing.

Because most of your arguments boil down to "I think it's icky" and "My Imaginary Sky Pixie says it's bad."

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples Resources Human Rights Campaign

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around rights like my spouse and I being able to file joint tax returns? Rights like Head of Household Status that allows increased standard deduction that, among other things, provides increased funds to care for dependents? Estate tax exemptions for a spouse?

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

You're dealing with people that don't give a fuck about outcome. They only care about process. You're talking about all the practical benefits of a particular policy, all the common sense reasons it makes sense, all the ways it benefits the individual and society. How it vastly improves better outcomes.

And he's speaking of purity of process. Where ANY outcome is justified, no matter how horrid, if it follows the 'correct' process. As the process is more important than the people it governs.

You're not going to find common ground on this. You're dealing with the foundational difference between your Unregulated Capitalism ideologues and Regulated Capitalism pragmatists. Or just ideologues and pragmatists. The former is concerned with purity of ideology. The latter, the practical effects of the outcome.

More proof that the far left does not operate in reality, but then again what do you expect from a far left drone that believes communist China is capitalism.

 

[Bfgrn]

So I am still awaiting for you to enlighten us all as to why gay marriage would be a bad thing.

Because most of your arguments boil down to "I think it's icky" and "My Imaginary Sky Pixie says it's bad."

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples Resources Human Rights Campaign

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around rights like my spouse and I being able to file joint tax returns? Rights like Head of Household Status that allows increased standard deduction that, among other things, provides increased funds to care for their dependents? Estate tax exemptions for a spouse?

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

The racist/bigoted far left drones and ironic comments!

I found a perfect avatar for you Kosh...

You are WELCOME!

 

[Skylar]

They're limited by two great failures: an inability or unwillingness to address the abuses of private power. And a childlishly binary perception of consent and coercion.

Where is someone is starving, with their family starving...an employer can do pretty much anything to them as long as they agree to it in exchange for a wage. The wild exploitation such a system encourages and carefully protects has turned off even many former libertarians.

You're on drugs.

I simply recognize that consent and coercion are a spectrum rather than a switch. Most die hard libertarians see them in terms of black and white. If its not one, its the other. When it reality, its often a varying mix of both.

Among those that abandon libertarianism, one of the major reasons is the inability of the philosophy to recognize vast elements of coercion and exploitation is what libertarians would classify as 'consent'.

Its a huge hole in the philosophy

 

[Skylar]

Explain how being 'socially liberal' is relevant? Lets say you support gay marriage and abortion. How is that relevant to any point I've raised above?

That WAS my point. You keep spouting off about libertarians!

Then what relevance does it have to any of the three primary criticisms of unregulated capitalism I've raised? Or my criticisms of libertarianism?

I'm asking you about relevance.

 

[Kosh]

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples Resources Human Rights Campaign

So, you want government to discriminate in favor of two citizens who create a contract over single citizens. I think government should treat all citizens the same. And that means I'm against expanding equality. That I think ALL citizens should be the same.

Sorry, can't wrap my head around that...

You can't wrap your tiny little brain around rights like my spouse and I being able to file joint tax returns? Rights like Head of Household Status that allows increased standard deduction that, among other things, provides increased funds to care for their dependents? Estate tax exemptions for a spouse?

WHY are you such an ignorant fuck?

The racist/bigoted far left drones and ironic comments!

I found a perfect avatar for you Kosh...

You are WELCOME!

Yes the far left can not handle when their propaganda is pointed out and shown to be wrong!