The difference between capitalism and socialism in a nutshell

[Skylar]

On the contrary, we have a fuller and more nuanced understanding of capitalism than you do. As competition is the impetus of efficiency. With businesses seeking to eliminate competition to maximize profits. And if successful in such elimination, they remove their greatest motivator for efficiency and innovation; competition.

If you disagree, explain why.

I disagree because I don't rely on some whacky ass theory from somebody else. I've been a business owner for 28+ years and have served mostly other businesses. Nobody I know hates competition, nobody wants to do it all. Sometimes the best thing you can do is send a pain in the ass customer to a competitor!

Non-competative practices need not take the exclusive form of monopoly. It could be a company merger, where two competitors join forces to eliminate the need to compete with each other. Or existing businesses remain independent, but collaborate to price fix in order to maintain higher profit margins. Or a business can limit access to a market by potential competition by denying key resources such as oil, or rail roads or toll roads. Or a business uses insider information to make money, information that isn't available to the general public.

Such practices happen all the time, even with regulation. Without regulation, such practices are rampant. Even Adam Smith understood this.

Capitalism is competitive by definition. There's no such thing as capitalism without competition. The only way you can have a non competitive market is if the government intervenes and you have socialism, fascism or communism.

Then what is capitalism rampant with anti-competative practices? You can pretend that no such practices are possible. But history is rife with them.

Another thing your Adam Smith idol apparently overlooked is that capitalists buy shit too. We like getting the most bang for our buck when we buy somebody else's goods or services.

So now Adam Smith is a liberal?

Are you quoting yourself. I don't even know if you represented his views right, I said I base my opinions on real world observations.

Anti-competitive practices ARE real world observations. Price fixing is real. Wage fixing is real. Selling below cost to eliminate a competitor is real. Companies merging so they don't have to complete is real. A business dominating an industry is real. Insider trading is real. Denial of acceess to a market is real.

We agree that competition is the engine of efficiency. Thus, anything that would limit competition would similarly limit efficiency. And every one of the real world practices above reduces competition.

And your solution is to eliminate the laws that prevent such anti-competitive practices and the government's ability to prevent them?

Obviously, I disagree.

And of course, there's still the herd of elephants in the living room: Rampant environmental abuse and inherent instability that both plague capitalism when unregulated.


How long have you been in business, you didn't say. I haven't pretended anything, you like to make shit up. I said capitalism needs laws to function properly. One of those laws would be not not have the power or blessings of the state to put competitors out of business.[/QUOTE]

 

[Iceweasel]

Explain how being 'socially liberal' is relevant? Lets say you support gay marriage and abortion. How is that relevant to any point I've raised above?

That WAS my point. You keep spouting off about libertarians!

 

[Iceweasel]

Anti-competitive practices ARE real world observations. Price fixing is real. Wage fixing is real. Selling below cost to eliminate a competitor is real. Companies merging so they don't have to complete is real. A business dominating an industry is real. Insider trading is real. Denial of acceess to a market is real.

We agree that competition is the engine of efficiency. Thus, anything that would limit competition would similarly limit efficiency. And every one of the real world practices above reduces competition.

And your solution is to eliminate the laws that prevent such anti-competitive practices and the government's ability to prevent them?

Obviously, I disagree.

And of course, there's still the herd of elephants in the living room: Rampant environmental abuse and inherent instability that both plague capitalism when unregulated.


How long have you been in business, you didn't say. I haven't pretended anything, you like to make shit up. I said capitalism needs laws to function properly. One of those laws would be not not have the power or blessings of the state to put competitors out of business.

I said no such thing, liar. Read slower or come back when you sober up.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

dude, the central planning of Socialism, took us to the moon and back, last millennium. .

yes and estimates are that our programs cost 100 times more than comparable soviet programs. With capitalism we'd probably have settled Mars by now!!

Do you understand?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Banksters are the worker's best friend. They keep their money safe, and even pay interest (<1%) and loan other peoples money out too. Yet, how much do they charch for credit? 12,15,18 and more percent! Isn't capitalism great, for Banksters and the investment class. Not so much for small businesses and individuals those who rarely turn one dollar in 12, 15, 18 and more.

^ Has absolutely zero private sector experience

Really? How do you know? Well, you don't know much, and in this case you demonstrate what a fool you are. I don't need to own a bank, or work in a bank to have experience with banks and mortgage brokers (which I why I use a credit union and buy property's with the aid of a mortgage banker I know and trust).

Anyone who has bought property knows the profit built into the documents they sign, priced way beyond their actual value. Anyone who has bought a car, knows the closer will try to sell add ons making the cost 5 to 10 percent higher than the original price.
When such items are refused, the car will not be available for a couple of days so they can remove, for example, the four bolts holding on the $350 mud flaps.

I know because we both know you don't know dick about the private sector. You're making shit up, just repeating stupid Marxist phrases and ideas.

Banksters? Seriously?

No moron, I'm not parroting Marx or anyone else. If I use a quote from someone else, I put it in quote marks and provide a link to the source. Unlike idiots and fools like you, who call anyone who criticizes capitalism a Communist, a conclusion built on a bed of ignorance and framed by bigotry.

Communism is a theory whose time has long passed. Much like the Republican Party, a political movement cannot last long when what is promised is never produced.

Our economic system needs reform, not replacement. All of us need to recognize that the greater threat to our political and social structure is not Communism, it is the movement to make our mixed economy into one with less and less oversight, and concentrating more and more of the wealth into the hands of the few.

We are a Plutocracy in the making (given the millionaires in Congress, many argue we have already become one, and as more efforts are made to shrink government (drown it in a bathtub) and thereby create a private sector which polices itself. A system of governance capable of becoming as dystopian as any produced by the Communist Regimes.

One thing even a moron like CrusaderFrank might fathom, the more we allow the private sector to act without restraint, the greater the discontent of the masses. As the expectation of the many rise, and the results fail to produce what is promised, we can expect the far left to rise once again and make demands less reasonable then those being asked for today (a living wage, a raise to the minimum wage, affordable health care, affordable college for the kids, and a safety net for the future).

In America, the private sector never acts "without restraint" We have courts.

What you meant to say is you want the Federal Government to be in charge of all human activity

Only one of the reasons I find you to be dumb is in this ^^^ post.

I've never meant to say anything unless I wrote it - don't pretend to be a mind reader when you're incapable of reading and comprehending the written language.

You have the right to disagree with me, but when you can't offer anything of substance, don't expect to be taken seriously. Idiot-Grams, your favorite form of communication, always lack substance.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

when you can't offer anything of substance,

dear conservatism is 2500 years old. Hows that for substance??

See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

 

[Wry Catcher]

On the contrary, we have a fuller and more nuanced understanding of capitalism than you do. As competition is the impetus of efficiency. With businesses seeking to eliminate competition to maximize profits. And if successful in such elimination, they remove their greatest motivator for efficiency and innovation; competition.

If you disagree, explain why.

I disagree because I don't rely on some whacky ass theory from somebody else. I've been a business owner for 28+ years and have served mostly other businesses. Nobody I know hates competition, nobody wants to do it all. Sometimes the best thing you can do is send a pain in the ass customer to a competitor!

Capitalism is competitive by definition. There's no such thing as capitalism without competition. The only way you can have a non competitive market is if the government intervenes and you have socialism, fascism or communism.

Another thing your Adam Smith idol apparently overlooked is that capitalists buy shit too. We like getting the most bang for our buck when we buy somebody else's goods or services.

You seem to have forgotten cartels, insider traders, price fixing, bait and switch, and a host of other frauds, misrepresentations and cheesy sales personnel.

BTW, government employee buy goods and services too.

No one suggested doing away with laws. I've said the opposite, capitalism needs them to function properly. If we have no laws you can just shoot the fucker that cheater you.

Yes, I am aware that government spends our money. WAY too much of it.

Define laws. There is a real push by the right to deregulate regulations which protect the environment. Regulations are laws

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There is a real push by the right to deregulate regulations which protect the environment. Regulations are laws

what is your best example??

 

[Iceweasel]

Define laws. There is a real push by the right to deregulate regulations which protect the environment. Regulations are laws

I don't know any that want to do away with all regulations or even most of them. Republicans vote for regulations too. The argument is on how much is too much. I gave an example on coal, if it can be burned cleanly it's still a good source of energy but the bias is against it, I guess due to images of the industrial revolution in their minds.

 

[Wry Catcher]

when you can't offer anything of substance,

dear conservatism is 2500 years old. Hows that for substance??

See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

No, I don't see why "we say" liberalism is based on pure ignorance. Would you offer some evidence, I do need a good laugh.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

when you can't offer anything of substance,

dear conservatism is 2500 years old. Hows that for substance??

See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

No, I don't see why "we say" liberalism is based on pure ignorance. Would you offer some evidence, I do need a good laugh.

dear if conservatism has no substance then Aristotle Cicero Locke Jefferson and Friedman have no substance.

Now do you see why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

 

[Wry Catcher]

There is a real push by the right to deregulate regulations which protect the environment. Regulations are laws

what is your best example??

Keystone XL

Define laws. There is a real push by the right to deregulate regulations which protect the environment. Regulations are laws

I don't know any that want to do away with all regulations or even most of them. Republicans vote for regulations too. The argument is on how much is too much. I gave an example on coal, if it can be burned cleanly it's still a good source of energy but the bias is against it, I guess due to images of the industrial revolution in their minds.

Have you ever touched coal? "I guess"?; maybe SMOG, Acid Rain and the sight of rivers on fire well after the Industrial Revolution influenced the environmental movement.

I never said all regulations, and the GOP is not a supporter of renewable and green sources of energy. They oppose the Carbon Tax and want to do away with the EPA.

 

[Iceweasel]

There is a real push by the right to deregulate regulations which protect the environment. Regulations are laws

what is your best example??

Keystone XL

Define laws. There is a real push by the right to deregulate regulations which protect the environment. Regulations are laws

I don't know any that want to do away with all regulations or even most of them. Republicans vote for regulations too. The argument is on how much is too much. I gave an example on coal, if it can be burned cleanly it's still a good source of energy but the bias is against it, I guess due to images of the industrial revolution in their minds.

Have you ever touched coal? "I guess"?; maybe SMOG, Acid Rain and the sight of rivers on fire well after the Industrial Revolution influenced the environmental movement.

I never said all regulations, and the GOP is not a supporter of renewable and green sources of energy. They oppose the Carbon Tax and want to do away with the EPA.

We have a coal plant here nearby that powers 10% of the state. You think Washington is loosy goosy with EPA? And yes, we had coal in Germany, used to power boilers for radiators. I'm still alive.

 

[Wry Catcher]

when you can't offer anything of substance,

dear conservatism is 2500 years old. Hows that for substance??

See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

No, I don't see why "we say" liberalism is based on pure ignorance. Would you offer some evidence, I do need a good laugh.

dear if conservatism has no substance then Aristotle Cicero Locke Jefferson and Friedman have no substance.

Now do you see why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

No, I "see" a list of names. If you wish to be taken seriously, you need to post much much more than names.

 

[JoeB131]

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Government Marriage protects the legal rights of the people involved.

the only reason you are against government marriage now is they are letting gays into the club.

 

[JoeB131]

Then why is it that we have a lower standard of living than Japan or those European Socialist countries?

We don't. And I prove once again what a lying sack of dimocrap shit you are.

Quality of Life Index by Country 2015

On this BULLSHIT list we rank 4th, behind Switzerland, Germany and Sweden while these IMBECILES use such BULLSHIT measuring sticks as 'Pollution Index' and 'Health Care Index' and 'Safety Index'

Okay you do realize that all those countries are in EUROPE, right?

 

[Wry Catcher]

There is a real push by the right to deregulate regulations which protect the environment. Regulations are laws

what is your best example??

Keystone XL

Define laws. There is a real push by the right to deregulate regulations which protect the environment. Regulations are laws

I don't know any that want to do away with all regulations or even most of them. Republicans vote for regulations too. The argument is on how much is too much. I gave an example on coal, if it can be burned cleanly it's still a good source of energy but the bias is against it, I guess due to images of the industrial revolution in their minds.

Have you ever touched coal? "I guess"?; maybe SMOG, Acid Rain and the sight of rivers on fire well after the Industrial Revolution influenced the environmental movement.

I never said all regulations, and the GOP is not a supporter of renewable and green sources of energy. They oppose the Carbon Tax and want to do away with the EPA.

We have a coal plant here nearby that powers 10% of the state. You think Washington is loosy goosy with EPA? And yes, we had coal in Germany, used to power boilers for radiators. I'm still alive.

"Fifty years ago this month, a toxic mix of dense fog and sooty black coal smoke killed thousands of Londoners in four days. It remains the deadliest environmental episode in recorded history."

See this safe link: The Killer Fog of 52 NPR

typical of a callous conservative, "I'm still alive". Sadly, many others are not.

 

[JoeNormal]

Then why is it that we have a lower standard of living than Japan or those European Socialist countries?

We don't. And I prove once again what a lying sack of dimocrap shit you are.

Quality of Life Index by Country 2015

On this BULLSHIT list we rank 4th, behind Switzerland, Germany and Sweden while these IMBECILES use such BULLSHIT measuring sticks as 'Pollution Index' and 'Health Care Index' and 'Safety Index'

Okay you do realize that all those countries are in EUROPE, right?

What's your measuring stick, NASCAR and monster truck events?

 

[Bfgrn]

Polls are PEOPLE idiot. Even young Republicans support gay marriage.

Young people are very influenced by their peer and highly susceptible to propaganda. We learn to see through bullshit when we gain life experiences. At least those of us that mature, liberals think it's cute to stay immature.

So I am still awaiting for you to enlighten us all as to why gay marriage would be a bad thing.

Because most of your arguments boil down to "I think it's icky" and "My Imaginary Sky Pixie says it's bad."

All government marriage is bad. Government should treat all it's citizens the same. Gay government marriage expands that inequity.

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

Overview of Federal Benefits Granted to Married Couples Resources Human Rights Campaign

 

[Iceweasel]

Your heart may be in the right place, but you are an idiot with the mind of a child. Sanctioning same sex marriage expands equality.

EDUCATE yourself...

You mean brainwash yourself. Marriage isn't a person. It's a relationship. Relationships are not a protected class, nor are they "equal". How could they be? You have the freedom of association but the Constitution doesn't guarantee that each state will consider your associations equal to anyone else's.