The death of Judas Iscariot

[Sunni Man]

Maybe you and the other poster Cammmpbell could get a group discount with a local mental health professional for your unresolved childhood trama issues.

Maybe you can stop being such a whiny, snivelly little twit, but you can't hold out too much hope.

Anyway, I consider myself lucky. I got through 12 years of Catholic schools and didn't get ass-raped by a priest.

Can't say that for the rest of my fellow Catholics....

So in other words; you felt rejected because no priest showed you intimate Fatherly love like all of the other boys.

 

[earlycuyler]

Maybe you and the other poster Cammmpbell could get a group discount with a local mental health professional for your unresolved childhood trama issues.

Those two are most likely the same member anyway. Joe has a history of using multiple accounts on message boards and even using them to debate him self.

 

[earlycuyler]

Maybe you and the other poster Cammmpbell could get a group discount with a local mental health professional for your unresolved childhood trama issues.

Maybe you can stop being such a whiny, snivelly little twit, but you can't hold out too much hope.

Anyway, I consider myself lucky. I got through 12 years of Catholic schools and didn't get ass-raped by a priest.

Can't say that for the rest of my fellow Catholics....

Wow, I figured you was an escaped Mormon.

 

[koshergrl]

Anyway, I hope he repented before he died.

Oh, why would you hope that.

What makes you bible thumpers really sick and worthy of all the contempt I inflict on you is that you kind of get off on the idea that you are finally going to 'get even' when you are in heaven and all the unbelievers are in Hell.

Which is what makes your religion contemptable.

Yeah, well, you say that in the face of my statements claiming I certainly DON'T feel that way, nor do any of the Christians I know.

Which makes you rather contemptible. Your bigotry colors your view and you don't see the true picture.

 

[koshergrl]

Um, well... How is it that you are so well informed and yet so condescending? Out of the mulltitudes how many diciples did Christ have? I don't know, for even as much as they knew and were exposed to... they struggled with understanding things even coming directly from Him. From what seems evident, Joel, the more enlightened one becomes the less they question.

Who's "Joel"?

I think that the enlightened people are the ones who never stop asking questions.

My problem with Christianity is that the contradictions and illogic were always too much for me to accept at face value, no matter how many times the psychotic nuns hit me with wooden rulers.

Give you an example. They gave us all our own little copies of the New Testement around fifth grade.

(They pretty much kept the Old Testement a secret until High School, and no wonder why, all the juicy insanity in there. They just gave us bowlderized versions of the OT stories. They told us all about Mrs. Lot being turned into salt. They left out the part about homosexuality, offering daughters for gang rape and drunken incest.)

Anyway, first thing I notice is that they give this geneology of Jesus in Matthew. So I ask why they traced his linage through Joseph (My patron saint) if God was his father. Then I asked why there was a different geneology in Luke. Pretty soon Sr. Mary Butch's answer came in the form of a ruler for asking too many logical questions.

KosherGirl would have made a fine nun. Unthinking, mean, and totally fanatical.

Okey dokey then.

 

[earlycuyler]

Anyway, I hope he repented before he died.

Oh, why would you hope that.

What makes you bible thumpers really sick and worthy of all the contempt I inflict on you is that you kind of get off on the idea that you are finally going to 'get even' when you are in heaven and all the unbelievers are in Hell.

Which is what makes your religion contemptable.

You inflict nothing. You are weak and insecure and really, not that smart. You are So weak and insecure you have to use multiple accounts on several message boards to do your bashing because you lack the ability to make your point. Now you claimed I had 20 usernames on the other boards, and I was called out on it. Pleas show them. The mods here would be interested to see that to make sure that I am not doing that here as well. I will point out all yours Cammpbell, I mean Joe and we let them decide whats what ?

 

[earlycuyler]

Satan mocks them through you. You're just his tool.

Joe/cammpbell is just a tool.

 

[strollingbones]

poor satan

 

[earlycuyler]

poor satan

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEgVI-IKpqk&feature=related]Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil [CoD: Black Ops - Crashsite Mission] - YouTube[/ame]

 

[PixieStix]

Poor Judas, He wanted to be something special and wanted to feel powerful, in an earthly way. He was a self proclaimed intellectual, who could not get past his learning and pride. In the end it seems he learned what he did wrong.

Was it too late? I don't know.
A lesson? Yes

 

[amrchaos]

According to Matthews, Judas confronted the Pharissees, repented and then hung himself

In Mark, it is as if Judas intentionally planned to betray Christ, thus suggesting he did not kill himself, at least not over guilt of bertraying him

According to Luke, Judas was possessed by Satan and that led to the betrayal of Jesus

And John just describe Judas as a person that Satan influenced to betray Christ. Does not mention anything about demon possession or the fate of Judas.

The story about Judas follows a similiar patter about Lazarus between John and Luke(John says Lazarus dies and Christ raised him back to life. Luke claims that Lazarus was a begger at the gates of a rich man that died and recieved Heaven while the Wealthy man ent hell(?). The Wealthy man begged a prophet of god to send back Lazarus but the Prophet refuse(Not sure if it was Abraham or some other prophet--I let you guys find that out). These are a few examples of some inconsistantcies that suggest the "witness" did not "witness" anything themselves, thus throwing the validity of their testimony into question.

The "Inconsistencies of the Gospel" is one of the reasons why many Agnostics and Atheists claim the NT is confusing. Implying that God likes to keep the word "confusing" logically confronts the idea that God wants you to know(which means understand) the Word.

This is not meant to undermine your faith. You just happened to stumble upon one of the problems of the NT. The real questions are

1.Who witnessed Judas death?
2.How do they know what he is thinking?
3.How do they know the reasons of why Judas betrayed Jesus?

 

[earlycuyler]

According to Matthews, Judas confronted the Pharissees, repented and then hung himself

In Mark, it is as if Judas intentionally planned to betray Christ, thus suggesting he did not kill himself, at least not over guilt of bertraying him

According to Luke, Judas was possessed by Satan and that led to the betrayal of Jesus

And John just describe Judas as a person that Satan influenced to betray Christ. Does not mention anything about demon possession or the fate of Judas.

The story about Judas follows a similiar patter about Lazarus between John and Luke(John says Lazarus dies and Christ raised him back to life. Luke claims that Lazarus was a begger at the gates of a rich man that died and recieved Heaven while the Wealthy man ent hell(?). The Wealthy man begged a prophet of god to send back Lazarus but the Prophet refuse(Not sure if it was Abraham or some other prophet--I let you guys find that out). These are a few examples of some inconsistantcies that suggest the "witness" did not "witness" anything themselves, thus throwing the validity of their testimony into question.

The "Inconsistencies of the Gospel" is one of the reasons why many Agnostics and Atheists claim the NT is confusing. Implying that God likes to keep the word "confusing" logically confronts the idea that God wants you to know(which means understand) the Word.

This is not meant to undermine your faith. You just happened to stumble upon one of the problems of the NT. The real questions are

1.Who witnessed Judas death?
2.How do they know what he is thinking?
3.How do they know the reasons of why Judas betrayed Jesus?

Well put. I look at those as differing points of view rather then inconsistencies. Its not like they all sat around a table, compared notes, and wrote it all down. They all wrote it as they saw it .

 

[BluePhantom]

OK, time for fun: Question: How many ways did Judas die? Answer: four!!

Actually, five, but for the fifth you also have to go outside the Bible to the Gospel of Judas where he was stoned to death by the other disciples. Great breakdown BTW.

 

[koshergrl]

According to Matthews, Judas confronted the Pharissees, repented and then hung himself

In Mark, it is as if Judas intentionally planned to betray Christ, thus suggesting he did not kill himself, at least not over guilt of bertraying him

According to Luke, Judas was possessed by Satan and that led to the betrayal of Jesus

And John just describe Judas as a person that Satan influenced to betray Christ. Does not mention anything about demon possession or the fate of Judas.

The story about Judas follows a similiar patter about Lazarus between John and Luke(John says Lazarus dies and Christ raised him back to life. Luke claims that Lazarus was a begger at the gates of a rich man that died and recieved Heaven while the Wealthy man ent hell(?). The Wealthy man begged a prophet of god to send back Lazarus but the Prophet refuse(Not sure if it was Abraham or some other prophet--I let you guys find that out). These are a few examples of some inconsistantcies that suggest the "witness" did not "witness" anything themselves, thus throwing the validity of their testimony into question.

The "Inconsistencies of the Gospel" is one of the reasons why many Agnostics and Atheists claim the NT is confusing. Implying that God likes to keep the word "confusing" logically confronts the idea that God wants you to know(which means understand) the Word.

This is not meant to undermine your faith. You just happened to stumble upon one of the problems of the NT. The real questions are

1.Who witnessed Judas death?
2.How do they know what he is thinking?
3.How do they know the reasons of why Judas betrayed Jesus?

I don't think we know why he betrayed him. I don't look at these puzzles as "problems". They are meant to be thought provoking and complex, and they are. They lead to consideration of our own life.

 

[koshergrl]

OK, time for fun: Question: How many ways did Judas die? Answer: four!!

Actually, five, but for the fifth you also have to go outside the Bible to the Gospel of Judas where he was stoned to death by the other disciples. Great breakdown BTW.

Well I think he probably only died once, so he only died one way.

I'm not sure Acts says that he died by falling, and I'm not sure if the people of those days would really know what the cause of death was if there was a lot of trauma to the body. They would surmise, as we do, only with a lot less information.

 

[amrchaos]

OK, time for fun: Question: How many ways did Judas die? Answer: four!!

Actually, five, but for the fifth you also have to go outside the Bible to the Gospel of Judas where he was stoned to death by the other disciples. Great breakdown BTW.

You know, from ACTS one can recount the story of Annannias and Saphirea(MSP ), the last part of Mark concerning the difference between believers and non-believers (thus producing a Faith Test!) add to that the strange accounting of the story of Judas, there maybe enough enough circumstantial evidence to try the disciples for murder and fraud.

But who would attempt to do that in the present time? Not I. Although, in a way I just did.

 

[koshergrl]

I think the disciples were probably pretty busy watching their own butts at that time. I doubt if they had the wherewithal, the time or the desire to murder Judas.

But it would make for a really good movie, wouldn't it!

 

[BluePhantom]

OK, time for fun: Question: How many ways did Judas die? Answer: four!!

Actually, five, but for the fifth you also have to go outside the Bible to the Gospel of Judas where he was stoned to death by the other disciples. Great breakdown BTW.

You know, from ACTS one can recount the story of Annannias and Saphirea(MSP ), the last part of Mark concerning the difference between believers and non-believers (thus producing a Faith Test!) add to that the strange accounting of the story of Judas, there maybe enough enough circumstantial evidence to try the disciples for murder and fraud.

But who would attempt to do that in the present time? Not I. Although, in a way I just did.

Well I think the point is that I don't think that how he died is terribly important unless you are just looking at it from the perspective of simply curiosity. It's what the story represents that's significant. As should come to no surprise to anyone who has read my posts on other topics of this nature, I reject the Bible as a historically accurate or literal set of documents. Joe is absolutely correct that many stories in the Bible (such as Sodom and Gomorrah, or Jonah and the whale for example) have roots in far more ancient versions from different cultures. Even the story of creation in Genesis is really just a twist on the version offered by Greek mythology.

But that is not to say that the general concepts of Christianity spelled out in the Bible or the overriding themes of the philosophy must automatically be rejected. It's simply that there is "the historical reality" and "the theological concept". The historical reality is not always necessary in order for the theological concept to be valid. But it can be problematic when one looks at the Bible literally and overlooks the allegorical importance.

IOW, did Lot's wife actually turn into a physical pillar of salt, for example? Well no, probably not. It's a metaphor and the interpretation of the story changes when you look at it literally. If you view it such that she actually turned into a literal pillar of salt, then one tends to view it as a punishment from God. When one looks at it metaphorically one concludes that her inability to leave the past behind led her to to an extremely unhappy and bitter life: she had a salty disposition and could never move on and find happiness. When you look at it that way it's no longer a punishment from God but a lesson on what happens to a person's character and disposition when they find themselves obsessed with the past, material possession, whatever. And so a literal interpreter views the story and concludes "wow God is one mean SOB...he turned that bitch into salt for disobeying" where an allegorical interpreter says "ahhhh.....when the past is gone one should focus on the future to avoid bitterness and unhappiness."

So when we look at Judas, it may be interesting to speculate on how he died as a curiosity but I think what is more important is to recognize the lesson that his example provides.

 

[ABikerSailor]

So, I'm re-reading Acts, and it seems to me that Judas bought some land with his betrayal of Christ earnings, then either fell or threw himself off a cliff, and BROKE IN HALF, and all his bowels (!) spilled out of him, resulting in the field being called "the field of blood" or some such thing.

Now I don't know why I thought Judas hung himself, so I'm curious if anybody else has any other take on the fate of Judas. Anybody except biblical retards like ABS, Loki, and Dragon, that is. Though I'm sure they'll have something supremely idiotic to say.

So did Judas commit suicide, or did he fall from a cliff, jump from a cliff, or hang himself? When? Years after the death of Christ? Shortly after? He had time to buy land, if I'm reading the passage correctly. It's maddeningly and miraculously ambiguous, as much of the bible is until you really start digging. And do we know his fate in the hereafter? Are there references to it? There is a vague reference to it in the Acts but I haven't really researched it yet.

On the History Channel, there's a program called "The Naked Archaeologist", and Simcha did a whole show on the death of Judas.

According to many of the Hebrew texts, he hung himself in front of the tomb of Ciaphas, because apparently he'd felt betrayed that they turned Yeshua over to the Romans, and hanging himself in front of the tomb was the way he could get revenge, by defiling the tomb for all time by hanging himself in front of it.

 

[koshergrl]

That's the second time someone (maybe it was you before) has mentioned that show to me, I'll have to check it out!

There's fodder for a lifetime of reading in the bible. I used to say if I could have only one book forever, I'd have the bible, because I had faith that it would be enough, over time, to get me through anything. I didn't have a lot of faith of staying INTERESTED in it for eternity, though, if I had no other reading material. But as I've gotten older, I realize more and more how incredibly complex it is, and how it seems to change each time I read it; how it changes ME each time I read it. I find it fascinating, and now not only do I have faith that it would be enough, I know I would find it interesting forever as well, too.