The Damage of the Depression Wasn't Economic

[regent]

Businesses were not making a profit on their endeavors. Farmers were leaving crops in the field, it cost more to ship milk to market than it would sell for. Business needed to make a profit not a loss when it sold an article or service. FDR said he would experiment with solutions and this was one. NRA was declared unconstitutional a few months before it expired. There was no manual or handbook on how to cure a depression, and today all we have is Keynes.
How long will a nation endure a Great Depression before there is talk of replacing the government as some nations were already doing.
Hoover's response was to loan money to business so they could produce more unsold goods.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Businesses were not making a profit on their endeavors. Farmers were leaving crops in the field, it cost more to ship milk to market than it would sell for. Business needed to make a profit not a loss when it sold an article or service. FDR said he would experiment with solutions and this was one. NRA was declared unconstitutional a few months before it expired. There was no manual or handbook on how to cure a depression, and today all we have is Keynes.
How long will a nation endure a Great Depression before there is talk of replacing the government as some nations were already doing.
Hoover's response was to loan money to business so they could produce more unsold goods.

"There was no manual or handbook on how to cure a depression,...."

1. The more than 30 prior economic downturns in this nation lasted a year or two.
Not the one Roosevelt created.

2. Of course there was a "manual or handbook on how to cure a depression,.."

"Warren G. Harding inherited the Woodrow Wilson mess, in particular the post-World War I depression – almost as severe, from peak to trough, as the Great Contraction from 1929 to 1933, that FDR inherited and prolonged.

Richard K. Vedder and Lowell E. Gallaway, in their book Out of Work (1993), noted that the magnitude of the 1920 depression "exceeded that for the Great Depression of the following decade for several quarters." The estimated gross national product plunged 24% from $91.5 billion in 1920 to $69.6 billion in 1921. The number of unemployed people jumped from 2.1 million in 1920 to 4.9 million in 1921.

With Harding’s tax cuts, spending cuts and relatively non-interventionist economic policy, the gross national product rebounded to $74.1 billion in 1922. The number of unemployed fell to 2.8 million – a reported 6.7% of the labor force – in 1922. So, just a year and a halfafter Harding became president, the Roaring 20s were underway! The unemployment rate continued to decline, reaching a low of 1.8% in 1926 – an extraordinary feat. Since then, the unemployment rate has been lower only once in wartime (1944), and never in peacetime."
http://archive.lewrockwell.com/orig4/powell-jim4.html
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/226645/not-so-great-depression/jim-powell


And...what's worse.....Roosevelt knew it.....and even promised to follow it!

"It arises from one cause only and that is the unbalanced budget at he continued failure of this administration to take effective steps to balance it! If that budget had been fully and honestly balanced in 1930, some of the 1931 troubles would have been avoided. Even if it had been balanced in 1931, much of the extreme dip in 1932 would have been obviated. Every financial man in the country knows why this is true."
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Campaign Address on the Federal Budget at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania



b. And this: "... carrying out the plain precept of our Party, which is to reduce the cost of current Federal Government operations by 25 percent." Ibid.

FDR went on to vow that everyone he selects for his cabinet had to pledge absolute fealty to a balanced budget and a 25% across-the-board cut in government spending.






Any other lies I can destroy?

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. And, Roosevelt was not just an economic failure.....he failed as an American President. He instituted not freedom and liberty...but the very attributes of fascism.



"Perhaps the most radical aspect of the New Deal was the National Industrial Recovery Act, passed in June 1933, which created a massive new bureaucracy called the National Recovery Administration. Under the NRA, most manufacturing industries were suddenly forced into government-mandated cartels. Codes that regulated prices and terms of sale briefly transformed much of the American economy into a fascist-style arrangement, while the NRA was financed by new taxes on the very industries it controlled.

Some economists have estimated that the NRA boosted the cost of doing business by an average of 40 percent — not something a depressed economy needed for recovery.


a. "The man Roosevelt picked to direct the NRA effort was General Hugh “Iron Pants” Johnson, a profane, red-faced bully At the nadir of the Great Depression, half of American industrial production was idle as the economy reeled under the weight of endless and destructive policies from both Republicans and Democrats in Washington."
Milton Friedman and Anna Jacobson Schwartz, "A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960," (New York: National Bureau of Economic Research, 1963; 9th paperback printing by Princeton University Press, 1993), p 330.


.... and professed admirer of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini. Thundered Johnson, “May Almighty God have mercy on anyone who attempts to interfere with the Blue Eagle” (the official symbol of the NRA, which one senator derisively referred to as the “Soviet duck.”)

Those who refused to comply with the NRA Johnson personally threatened with public boycotts and “a punch in the nose.”
Blue Eagles, Red Ducks

Does that sound like America?

How about this:

b. A New Jersey tailor named Jacob Maged was arrested and sent to jail for the “crime” of pressing a suit of clothes for 35 cents rather than the NRA-inspired “Tailor’s Code” of 40 cents.



And this was the cost of the Depression....worse than economic: the cost was political.....America's birthright.....liberty.

Well PC, I read "thoughtcrimes" rebuttal, so I am watching closely. I read more history than 95% of the people on here, and after reading this one statement of yours..........not every statement ever mind you because I do not have that much time...............this one statement is 100% accurate!

Trust me "Thoughtcrimes," it is.

Imagine, being harassed because you didn't charge what the government thought was fair for a service. What does that remind you of? I will let you answer that question yourself!

Thanks, Ima!

Let's drive the point about Roosevelt's fascism home:

This was America under Franklin Roosevelt:

10. In "The Roosevelt Myth," historian John T. Flynn describes how the NRA’s partisans sometimes conducted “business”: The NRA was discovering it could not enforce its rules. Black markets grew up. Only the most violent police methods could procure enforcement.

In Sidney Hillman’s garment industry the code authority employed enforcement police. They roamed through the garment district like storm troopers.
They could enter a man’s factory, send him out, line up his employees, subject them to minute interrogation, take over his books on the instant. Night work was forbidden. Flying squadrons of these private coat-and-suit police went through the district at night, battering down doors with axes looking for men who were committing the crime of sewing together a pair of pants at night. But without these harsh methods many code authorities said there could be no compliance because the public was not back of it. John T. Flynn, "The Roosevelt Myth," (Garden City, N.Y.: Garden City Publishing Co., Inc., 1949), p. 45.



Under Roosevelt....America approached the same environment that, under Progressive President Woodrow Wilson, our nation was the first Fascist Nation.


And that's why the theme of this thread is that the Depression's greatest damage wasn't to the economy.....but to the destruction of our political fabric.

 

[Camp]

6. Let's review:
Harding solved as great an economic crisis as Roosevelt's in a year or two....consistent with the history of recessions/depressions throughout the history of the nation.

Roosevelt promised to balance the budget, to cut spending....as Harding had....but he didn't follow through on the promise.




So....what really happened?

You continue to evade and deflect responding to the challenge I have given you based on my post #51. A basic and fundamental fact has been provided that proves your distortion and the premise of your thesis to be misinformed and dishonest and yet you seem unable to even attempt to respond.

Less than a year after FDR was inaugurated in March of 1933, what had been a troublesome drought became the crisis that would plague the country for the entire decade. The anti-FDR folks like to ignore Dust Bowl Storms that swept across the farmlands and ranches creating massive unemployment. The first major storm hit on Nov. 11, 1933, and was soon followed by another major storm on May 9, 1934. There is some discrepancy on the dates due to what are defined by various sources as "major". In between the major storms were a series of continuous lesser regional storms.

history.com/topics/dust-bowl

I know you'd like to ignore the documented facts that I've provided....including Roosevelt's own words.....but try, anyway: why did he promise to cut spending, balance the budge, reduce deficits, ....
...and do the very opposite?
I gave my explanation: The reason was political: we wanted to be a dictator, like his pals Stalin and Mussolini.....

What's yours?

I am not ignoring anything. I have challenged some of your major and primary alleged facts as being distorted and dishonest. Instead of answering you simply answer my questions with new questions of your own. I just gave you an answer with a link to show the drastic change that occurred less than a year after FDR was inaugurated. You will not respond to the claim that the Dust Bowl Storms crippled the countries major industry, agriculture and make pretend like the Dust Bowl crisis was irrelevant. You have been given a very specific answer to your question. Why do you continue to ask the same question and ignore the answer you have been given?

Had nothing to do with Roosevelt's infamy.

Hoover doled out hundreds of millions of dollars to wheat and cotton farmers even as the new tariffs wiped out their markets.

The FDR administration also paid farmers for the first time for not working at all. Even if the AAA had helped farmers by curtailing supplies 17 18 and raising prices, it could have done so only by hurting millions of others who had to pay those prices or make do with less to eat.
Hans F. Sennholz, “The Great Depression,” The Freeman, April 1975, p. 210

And...
From The Liberal Tradition: A Free People and a Free Economy by Lewis W. Douglas, as quoted in “Monetary Central Planning and the State, Part XIV: The New Deal and Its Critics,” by Richard M. Ebeling in Freedom Daily, February 1998, p. 12.



I love showing what a Roosevelt apologist you are.

Here is another revelation PC-----> As with FDR, we see that the further left the candidate is, the more they have to lie to get elected. Look at FDR! Look at Obama! JFK did not have to lie, and neither did Bill Clinton. That tells you how far LEFT the Democrats have gone; although Bernie believes he can tell the truth and get elected. He feels the country has moved far enough left that his ideas are commonplace. Only with the young people they are, lol!

Nixon had a secret plan to end the war, Bush 41 promised not to raise taxes and Bush 43 didn't believe in nation-building. You seem to have convinced yourself that only those from one party make campaign promises and don't keep them. Amateur and juvenile thinking.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Under Franklin Roosevelt....America approached the same environment that, under Progressive President Woodrow Wilson, our nation was the first Fascist Nation.

The similarities are amazing.

11. For purposes of comparison, note the similarity with Woodrow Wilson's version, when America was the first fascist nation:

a. George Creel was named to head the Committee on Public Information, the CPI. How liberal was he: “served as police commissioner in Denver, depriving policemen of guns and nightsticks”(www.jstor.org/stable/845226)
Fear was a vital tool, “an important element to be bred into the civilian population.” (Goldberg, “Liberal Fascism,” p.109) He recruited about 75,000 "Four Minute Men," who spoke about the War at social events for an ideal length of four minutes, considering that the average human attention span was judged at the time to be four minutes.( George Creel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


b. The official position of the US government's Committee on Public Information was: "The force of an idea lies in its inspirational value. It matters very little if it is true or false." JTM | Full text | Comments on the nonpharmaceutical interventions in New York City and Chicago during the 1918 influenza pandemic


c. Wilson’s Sedition Act, May 1918 banned “uttering, printing, writing, or publishing any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the United States government or the military.


d. The postmaster general had authority to deny mailing privileges to any publication: at least 75 were banned. The supply of newsprint was halted by the War Industries Board of any journal that disparaged the draft.

e. He proclaimed that the greatest threat came from ‘hyphenated’ Americans: “I cannot say too often- any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.” CONGRESS CHEERS AS WILSON URGES CURB ON PLOTTERS; Wild Applause Greets the President's Denunciation of Disloyal Citizens. ACCLAIM DEFENSE PLANS Members of Both Parties Express Approval of His Sentiments on Preparedness. UPHOLDS PAN-AMERICANISM Warns the World That We Will Defend the Independence and Liberty of the Whole Continent. CONGRESS CHEERS WILSON'S ADDRESS


f. “The Nation, on April 17, 1920, recounted how a clothing salesman received six months in jail for saying that Vladimir Lenin was smart.” "The Most Brainiest Man?" The Red Scare and Free Speech in Connecticut
Because the Oklahoma Council of Defense was an extralegal organization, numerous incidents of extreme measures occurred to eliminate dissent. Men were beaten with leather straps and tarred and feathered. OHS Publications Division


"Progressive"....just another name for "Fascist"

 

[regent]

Under Franklin Roosevelt....America approached the same environment that, under Progressive President Woodrow Wilson, our nation was the first Fascist Nation.

The similarities are amazing.

11. For purposes of comparison, note the similarity with Woodrow Wilson's version, when America was the first fascist nation:

a. George Creel was named to head the Committee on Public Information, the CPI. How liberal was he: “served as police commissioner in Denver, depriving policemen of guns and nightsticks”(www.jstor.org/stable/845226)
Fear was a vital tool, “an important element to be bred into the civilian population.” (Goldberg, “Liberal Fascism,” p.109) He recruited about 75,000 "Four Minute Men," who spoke about the War at social events for an ideal length of four minutes, considering that the average human attention span was judged at the time to be four minutes.( George Creel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


b. The official position of the US government's Committee on Public Information was: "The force of an idea lies in its inspirational value. It matters very little if it is true or false." JTM | Full text | Comments on the nonpharmaceutical interventions in New York City and Chicago during the 1918 influenza pandemic


c. Wilson’s Sedition Act, May 1918 banned “uttering, printing, writing, or publishing any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the United States government or the military.


d. The postmaster general had authority to deny mailing privileges to any publication: at least 75 were banned. The supply of newsprint was halted by the War Industries Board of any journal that disparaged the draft.

e. He proclaimed that the greatest threat came from ‘hyphenated’ Americans: “I cannot say too often- any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.” CONGRESS CHEERS AS WILSON URGES CURB ON PLOTTERS; Wild Applause Greets the President's Denunciation of Disloyal Citizens. ACCLAIM DEFENSE PLANS Members of Both Parties Express Approval of His Sentiments on Preparedness. UPHOLDS PAN-AMERICANISM Warns the World That We Will Defend the Independence and Liberty of the Whole Continent. CONGRESS CHEERS WILSON'S ADDRESS


f. “The Nation, on April 17, 1920, recounted how a clothing salesman received six months in jail for saying that Vladimir Lenin was smart.” "The Most Brainiest Man?" The Red Scare and Free Speech in Connecticut
Because the Oklahoma Council of Defense was an extralegal organization, numerous incidents of extreme measures occurred to eliminate dissent. Men were beaten with leather straps and tarred and feathered. OHS Publications Division


"Progressive"....just another name for "Fascist"

So how similar was the Adams Sedition Act during peace time and Wilson's during war time?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So how similar was the Adams Sedition Act during peace time and Wilson's during war time?

Adams was a Federalist progressive or royalist who believed in all powerful central govt too. It took a Republican, Jefferson, to destroy him and return power to the people.

 

[TheCrusader]

I just can't understand how stupid you have to be to think that when millions of people lost their jobs and couldn't feed themselves or provide housing for themselves or their families...these people should just crawl into a gutter and die so that a rag called the "Constitution" can remain "inviolate". Whatever the fuck that means.

 

[TheCrusader]

Businesses were not making a profit on their endeavors. Farmers were leaving crops in the field, it cost more to ship milk to market than it would sell for. Business needed to make a profit not a loss when it sold an article or service. FDR said he would experiment with solutions and this was one. NRA was declared unconstitutional a few months before it expired. There was no manual or handbook on how to cure a depression, and today all we have is Keynes.
How long will a nation endure a Great Depression before there is talk of replacing the government as some nations were already doing.
Hoover's response was to loan money to business so they could produce more unsold goods.

"There was no manual or handbook on how to cure a depression,...."

1. The more than 30 prior economic downturns in this nation lasted a year or two.
Not the one Roosevelt created.

2. Of course there was a "manual or handbook on how to cure a depression,.."

"Warren G. Harding inherited the Woodrow Wilson mess, in particular the post-World War I depression – almost as severe, from peak to trough, as the Great Contraction from 1929 to 1933, that FDR inherited and prolonged.

Richard K. Vedder and Lowell E. Gallaway, in their book Out of Work (1993), noted that the magnitude of the 1920 depression "exceeded that for the Great Depression of the following decade for several quarters." The estimated gross national product plunged 24% from $91.5 billion in 1920 to $69.6 billion in 1921. The number of unemployed people jumped from 2.1 million in 1920 to 4.9 million in 1921.

With Harding’s tax cuts, spending cuts and relatively non-interventionist economic policy, the gross national product rebounded to $74.1 billion in 1922. The number of unemployed fell to 2.8 million – a reported 6.7% of the labor force – in 1922. So, just a year and a halfafter Harding became president, the Roaring 20s were underway! The unemployment rate continued to decline, reaching a low of 1.8% in 1926 – an extraordinary feat. Since then, the unemployment rate has been lower only once in wartime (1944), and never in peacetime."
http://archive.lewrockwell.com/orig4/powell-jim4.html
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/226645/not-so-great-depression/jim-powell


And...what's worse.....Roosevelt knew it.....and even promised to follow it!

"It arises from one cause only and that is the unbalanced budget at he continued failure of this administration to take effective steps to balance it! If that budget had been fully and honestly balanced in 1930, some of the 1931 troubles would have been avoided. Even if it had been balanced in 1931, much of the extreme dip in 1932 would have been obviated. Every financial man in the country knows why this is true."
Franklin D. Roosevelt: Campaign Address on the Federal Budget at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania



b. And this: "... carrying out the plain precept of our Party, which is to reduce the cost of current Federal Government operations by 25 percent." Ibid.

FDR went on to vow that everyone he selects for his cabinet had to pledge absolute fealty to a balanced budget and a 25% across-the-board cut in government spending.






Any other lies I can destroy?

You don't know the first fucking thing about the Great Depression.

It affected the whole world, not just America, you stupid twit, but somehow you think Roosevelt's actions had an effect on the entire world?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

you think Roosevelt's actions had an effect on the entire world?

America is the leader of the free world and created the free world, especially after WW2 so what we think in effect does create and effect the entire world. China for example, just switched to Republican capitalism after 60 million slowly starved to death under liberalism. Do you understand? The Great Depression, the Great Recession, China's switch to capitalism, and freedom itself all came from America. We are the last best hope for freedom on earth.