The case for Palestinian independence

[The Rabbi]

There was never a country Palestine ruled by Palestinian people. There were P'lishitim mentioned in the Bible but they were a disparate group of tribes. The present people calling themselves Palestinian are in fact Jordanian Arabs who migrated there in the 19th century.

Most people that call themselves Israelis migrated there in the 20th century, so how would they have precedence over those who did so in the 19th?

Until the 20th century there were no such countries as Belarus, Slovakia and Slovenia, either! They're all Slavs, so I guess they've got other countries where they can go to, right?

The ancestors of the people who migrated first came from Israel after the destruction of the state and the diaspora. That is in no way equivalent to either Slavs or palestinians.

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

The word 'Palestine' appeared on Roman maps for 600 years. If you are going to insist that 'Germania' is modern Germany, then Palestine is modern Palestine.

 

[The Rabbi]

The present people calling themselves Palestinian are in fact Jordanian Arabs who migrated there in the 19th century.

Genetically they have clear links with the Canaanites, actually.

No, they don't actually.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

The word 'Palestine' appeared on Roman maps for 600 years. If you are going to insist that 'Germania' is modern Germany, then Palestine is modern Palestine.

Would you please quit cherry picking facts.
Germania describes a rough geographic area populated by ethnically and linquistically similar people. Palestine is no such thing.

 

[Saigon]

The present people calling themselves Palestinian are in fact Jordanian Arabs who migrated there in the 19th century.

Genetically they have clear links with the Canaanites, actually.

No, they don't actually.

Yes, they do.

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine’s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia.

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

 

[konradv]

There was never a country Palestine ruled by Palestinian people. There were P'lishitim mentioned in the Bible but they were a disparate group of tribes. The present people calling themselves Palestinian are in fact Jordanian Arabs who migrated there in the 19th century.

Most people that call themselves Israelis migrated there in the 20th century, so how would they have precedence over those who did so in the 19th?

Until the 20th century there were no such countries as Belarus, Slovakia and Slovenia, either! They're all Slavs, so I guess they've got other countries where they can go to, right?

The ancestors of the people who migrated first came from Israel after the destruction of the state and the diaspora. That is in no way equivalent to either Slavs or palestinians.

The Palestinians were there all the time. Many were Jews, Samaritans and Christians that converted to Islam and were there since before the destruction of Israel. It's not like the land was empty for almost 2,000 years, so I really don't know what influx you're talking about. Got any cites?

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

The word 'Palestine' appeared on Roman maps for 600 years. If you are going to insist that 'Germania' is modern Germany, then Palestine is modern Palestine.

Would you please quit cherry picking facts.
Germania describes a rough geographic area populated by ethnically and linquistically similar people. Palestine is no such thing.

No cherry picking there that I can see.

The word Palestine appeared on maps for 600 years, used in a more distinct and precise location that 'Germania' did, and for a much longer period of time.

The genetic research linked above also confirms this link.

 

[The Rabbi]

Genetically they have clear links with the Canaanites, actually.

No, they don't actually.

Yes, they do.

Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named
Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They
became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which
was Jericho. Palestine’s location at the center of routes
linking three continents made it the meeting place for
religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria,
Mesopotamia, and Anatolia.

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

More cherry picking.

 

[The Rabbi]

Most people that call themselves Israelis migrated there in the 20th century, so how would they have precedence over those who did so in the 19th?

Until the 20th century there were no such countries as Belarus, Slovakia and Slovenia, either! They're all Slavs, so I guess they've got other countries where they can go to, right?

The ancestors of the people who migrated first came from Israel after the destruction of the state and the diaspora. That is in no way equivalent to either Slavs or palestinians.

The Palestinians were there all the time. Many were Jews, Samaritans and Christians that converted to Islam and were there since before the destruction of Israel. It's not like the land was empty for almost 2,000 years, so I really don't know what influx you're talking about. Got any cites?

There were no palestinians. There was no such thing.

 

[konradv]

The ancestors of the people who migrated first came from Israel after the destruction of the state and the diaspora. That is in no way equivalent to either Slavs or palestinians.

The Palestinians were there all the time. Many were Jews, Samaritans and Christians that converted to Islam and were there since before the destruction of Israel. It's not like the land was empty for almost 2,000 years, so I really don't know what influx you're talking about. Got any cites?

There were no palestinians. There was no such thing.

Baloney! The land wasn't empty. TRY AGAIN!

 

[The Rabbi]

The Palestinians were there all the time. Many were Jews, Samaritans and Christians that converted to Islam and were there since before the destruction of Israel. It's not like the land was empty for almost 2,000 years, so I really don't know what influx you're talking about. Got any cites?

There were no palestinians. There was no such thing.

Baloney! The land wasn't empty. TRY AGAIN!

There were never any people called Palestinians during the Roman times.

 

[konradv]

There were no palestinians. There was no such thing.

Baloney! The land wasn't empty. TRY AGAIN!

There were never any people called Palestinians during the Roman times.

Who cares what they were called? What does that have to with the fact that there were people living in Palestine long before the modern immigration of Jews to the area? Call them whatever you like. They WERE living there long before the 19th century. It wasn't an empty country. That's the point. There were people living there and they have rights.

 

[The Rabbi]

Baloney! The land wasn't empty. TRY AGAIN!

There were never any people called Palestinians during the Roman times.

Who cares what they were called? What does that have to with the fact that there were people living in Palestine long before the modern immigration of Jews to the area? Call them whatever you like. They WERE living there long before the 19th century. It wasn't an empty country. That's the point. There were people living there and they have rights.

But they weren't necessarily related to the people calling themselves Palestinians today. Any more than the inhabitants of Arizona today are the natural descendents of the people living there 500 years ago. IOW they have no claim on the land.
The Jews were there back to biblical times. Everyone agrees on this.

 

[konradv]

There were never any people called Palestinians during the Roman times.

Who cares what they were called? What does that have to with the fact that there were people living in Palestine long before the modern immigration of Jews to the area? Call them whatever you like. They WERE living there long before the 19th century. It wasn't an empty country. That's the point. There were people living there and they have rights.

But they weren't necessarily related to the people calling themselves Palestinians today. Any more than the inhabitants of Arizona today are the natural descendents of the people living there 500 years ago. IOW they have no claim on the land.
The Jews were there back to biblical times. Everyone agrees on this.

Where did they come from? People have been living there continuously. How can you say this one belongs and this one doesn't and supplant them with people that haven't lived there for thousands of years? Will we have to do genotyping to see who's really a "natural descendant"? How do you know they aren't the descendants of people that lived there in biblical times? How do you know those who immigrated more recently are? Using your logic, if a Native American of the proper blood wanted your home, he could have it, right?

 

[The Rabbi]

Baloney! The land wasn't empty. TRY AGAIN!

There were never any people called Palestinians during the Roman times.

Who cares what they were called? What does that have to with the fact that there were people living in Palestine long before the modern immigration of Jews to the area? Call them whatever you like. They WERE living there long before the 19th century. It wasn't an empty country. That's the point. There were people living there and they have rights.

OK,. the people living there before the 19th century can come back.
The sand ******* infesting the place today need to go somewhere else.
Clear?

 

[The Rabbi]

Who cares what they were called? What does that have to with the fact that there were people living in Palestine long before the modern immigration of Jews to the area? Call them whatever you like. They WERE living there long before the 19th century. It wasn't an empty country. That's the point. There were people living there and they have rights.

OK,. the people living there before the 19th century can come back.
The sand ******* infesting the place today need to go somewhere else.
Clear?

XXXXXXXX The people that call themselves Palestinian were there long before the 19th century, regardless of what you say. If they weren't, who was?

Jews. And people who dont exist anymore.

It's like saying that Arizona should belong to Mexico because Mexicans lived there once.

 

[konradv]

OK,. the people living there before the 19th century can come back.
The sand ******* infesting the place today need to go somewhere else.
Clear?

XXXXXXXX The people that call themselves Palestinian were there long before the 19th century, regardless of what you say. If they weren't, who was?

Jews. And people who dont exist anymore.

It's like saying that Arizona should belong to Mexico because Mexicans lived there once.

So why should all of Palestine belong to the Jews just because they lived there once? Seems you're stepping on your own argument!!!

That being said, who lived there between the diaspora and the 19th century? You're trying to make us believe the land was empty or people just up and left, which everyone knows is historically untrue. Get real!

 

[konradv]

The term 'Palestine' has a long history and anyone who has an ancestry of having lived there as long as the Arab population has would have to be legitimately considered Palestinians. They AREN'T recent arrivals as some would have us believe.

The term Peleset (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t) is found in numerous Egyptian documents referring to a neighboring people or land starting from c.1150 BCE during the Twentieth dynasty of Egypt. The first mention is thought to be in texts of the temple at Medinet Habu which record a people called the Peleset among the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III's reign.[10] The Assyrians called the same region Palashtu or Pilistu, beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c.800 BCE through to emperor Sargon II in his Annals approximately a century later.[1][11][12] Neither the Egyptian or Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.

The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece.[13] Herodotus wrote of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê" in The Histories, the first historical work clearly defining the region, which included the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.[14][15][16][17] and formed part of the 5th Persian satrapy (νομό&#962.[18] Approximately a century later, Aristotle used a similar definition in Meteorology, writing "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake (λίμν&#951 in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said. They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them," understood by scholars to be a reference to the Dead Sea.[19]

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The Rabbi]

Manhattan is an ancient term too. So all the people who live there now are entitled to on the law of return. Right?

 

[konradv]

Manhattan is an ancient term too. So all the people who live there now are entitled to on the law of return. Right?

All the people that live in Manhattan now are entitled to live there, yes. What would return have to do with it? They're already there, just like the Palestinians. Don't really get what you're driving at!