The All-Volunteer Army and Its Implications

DGS49

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Apr 12, 2012
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In all of the wars fought by the U.S. in its history, part of the plan was to send soldiers to certain death, if warranted to achieve a clear objective.

Take D-Day as the most striking example in modern times. Our commanders knew that we were attacking positions that were nearly impregnable. They knew that a significant percentage of our soldiers and sailor were going to perish in the attempt, and yet the generals did not hesitate (other than for the weather). 25% casualties was the expectation.

We took that same mentality into Korea and even to Vietnam. If an objective was militarily important, the commander would send troops in, even knowing that some percentage of them were going to die in the attempt.

That philosophy ended with the invasion of Iraq and is now dead. Compare the casualties from Vietnam - 50,000 killed, more or less - with Afghanistan, a war that lasted for about the same length of time, overall: less than 2,500 in ten years. Medical advancements surely had something to do with the dramatic difference in casualties, but the main driver in the reduced number of battlefield deaths was the change in military philosophy. NO commander in Iraq or Afghanistan ordered his troops into battles where casualties were a virtual certainty.

I attribute this dramatic change in battlefield philosophy to the advent of the all-volunteer army. NOBODY would volunteer, knowing that he might be thrust into a lethal battle on purpose.

Now look at what's going on in Ukraine. Those commanders, on both sides, employ the "old" military philosophy that an objective can outweigh the cost of a few lives. They send their troops into the occasional battle when they know some won't come out of it alive. Obviously, this is much more the case with the Russians, but also Ukraine.

What's my point? We are unprepared for a war right now. We have the weapons, the ammo, the technology, but our philosophy of fighting is incompatible with "winning" any war.

It is not my opinion that the draft must come back; it is a fact. There are many justifications for it, but this is the primary driver: We cannot rely on volunteers when the chances of getting killed or maimed goes above, say, 10%. NO ONE will volunteer. And recruiting is difficult enough now, due to the Biden/Obama wokeness initiatives.
 
Volunteers come from the same depressed areas they used to concentrate the draft. It takes a fairly deep recession to make anyone think the military is a good move. When the working class economy is doing OK recruitment goes down. It's not anything to do with Obama. There's just not enough desperation among the peasant class right now.
 
The problem is we never have any idea what it is we are supposed to be "winning". Maybe "only" 2500 American soldiers died in Afghanistan but even today, no one can actually explain why or what it was we were supposed to "win".
 
Volunteers come from the same depressed areas they used to concentrate the draft. It takes a fairly deep recession to make anyone think the military is a good move. When the working class economy is doing OK recruitment goes down. It's not anything to do with Obama. There's just not enough desperation among the peasant class right now.
That's a bunch of gaslight BS.
Real wages have been declining for 24 straight months, inflation is raging, housing & food are more expensive than ever, credit cards are maxed out & there are massive layoffs & bankruptcies ravaging the economy.

Woke agendas featuring trannies, pup handlers, foreign proxy wars, clot shot mandates & social justice buffoonery are the reasons recruitment is down.
Bad attempt at trying to deflect from the fact Pedo Joe's policies are absolutely to blame here
 
That's a bunch of gaslight BS.
Real wages have been declining for 24 straight months, inflation is raging, housing & food are more expensive than ever, credit cards are maxed out & there are massive layoffs & bankruptcies ravaging the economy.

Woke agendas featuring trannies, pup handlers, foreign proxy wars, clot shot mandates & social justice buffoonery are the reasons recruitment is down.
Bad attempt at trying to deflect from the fact Pedo Joe's policies are absolutely to blame here
Wow, I am not maxed on my credit cards nor is my housing getting more expensive, gas always fluctuates and food, I grow much of mine so it is cheaper than buying at the store.
 
What's my point? We are unprepared for a war right now. We have the weapons, the ammo, the technology, but our philosophy of fighting is incompatible with "winning" any war.

Bullshit
The US has the most lethal military force in the world and we will not tolerate 25 percent casualties. We have repeatedly demonstrated our ability to meet military objectives without excessive casualties

The reason is not cowardice but that we excel at modern warfare and rely on “force multipliers” that increase lethality without exposing troops to unnecessary risk.

Force multipliers include training, tactics, situational awareness, modern equipment including drones and unmanned vehicles, communications

The days of charging a machine gun nest are gone
 
It’s a damn shame that America can’t enslave people to fight and die in its unnecessary and meaningless military escapades anymore.
 
In all of the wars fought by the U.S. in its history, part of the plan was to send soldiers to certain death, if warranted to achieve a clear objective.

Vietnam was the last war we fought with that strategy and the last war we had a Draft

Our strategy was that if we kill 8 of their soldiers for every 1 of ours….we win

The problem was that the American people were unwilling to tolerate even the one and the people revolted both in the streets and at the ballot box.
 
In all of the wars fought by the U.S. in its history, part of the plan was to send soldiers to certain death, if warranted to achieve a clear objective.

Take D-Day as the most striking example in modern times. Our commanders knew that we were attacking positions that were nearly impregnable. They knew that a significant percentage of our soldiers and sailor were going to perish in the attempt, and yet the generals did not hesitate (other than for the weather). 25% casualties was the expectation.

We took that same mentality into Korea and even to Vietnam. If an objective was militarily important, the commander would send troops in, even knowing that some percentage of them were going to die in the attempt.

That philosophy ended with the invasion of Iraq and is now dead. Compare the casualties from Vietnam - 50,000 killed, more or less - with Afghanistan, a war that lasted for about the same length of time, overall: less than 2,500 in ten years. Medical advancements surely had something to do with the dramatic difference in casualties, but the main driver in the reduced number of battlefield deaths was the change in military philosophy. NO commander in Iraq or Afghanistan ordered his troops into battles where casualties were a virtual certainty.

I attribute this dramatic change in battlefield philosophy to the advent of the all-volunteer army. NOBODY would volunteer, knowing that he might be thrust into a lethal battle on purpose.

Now look at what's going on in Ukraine. Those commanders, on both sides, employ the "old" military philosophy that an objective can outweigh the cost of a few lives. They send their troops into the occasional battle when they know some won't come out of it alive. Obviously, this is much more the case with the Russians, but also Ukraine.

What's my point? We are unprepared for a war right now. We have the weapons, the ammo, the technology, but our philosophy of fighting is incompatible with "winning" any war.

It is not my opinion that the draft must come back; it is a fact. There are many justifications for it, but this is the primary driver: We cannot rely on volunteers when the chances of getting killed or maimed goes above, say, 10%. NO ONE will volunteer. And recruiting is difficult enough now, due to the Biden/Obama wokeness initiatives.
I do not support a draft at this time. I didn't even like working around those ordered by judges to enlist in military service or face punishment on crimes committed.
 
I do not support a draft at this time. I didn't even like working around those ordered by judges to enlist in military service or face punishment on crimes committed.
We do not need the number of troops like we had in WWII, Korea and Vietnam

Our military is much more efficient and we get better quality and better motivation through a volunteer force.

Putin uses convicts in his Army. We can see how well they are doing
 
There are many civilized countries that have a compulsory draft - Israel and Finland, to name two.

It is not a good situation when the young people of a nation believe that they owe it nothing. Most pay no taxes and are net consumers of public resources, rather than providers.

If China gets serious with us (not to mention Russia), either in Taiwan or elsewhere, there are simply not enough enlistees to meet the demands that such a war/conflict would demand. Technology is fine, but people is where the rubber meets the road. Cannon fodder, if you must.

We are in the early stages of "getting caught with our [figurative] pants down." In this, as in so many other things, "we" are dumb as a rock.
 
There are many civilized countries that have a compulsory draft - Israel and Finland, to name two.

It is not a good situation when the young people of a nation believe that they owe it nothing. Most pay no taxes and are net consumers of public resources, rather than providers.

If China gets serious with us (not to mention Russia), either in Taiwan or elsewhere, there are simply not enough enlistees to meet the demands that such a war/conflict would demand. Technology is fine, but people is where the rubber meets the road. Cannon fodder, if you must.

We are in the early stages of "getting caught with our [figurative] pants down." In this, as in so many other things, "we" are dumb as a rock.
We have seen Russias threat and find it has been grossly overstated

Taiwan is capable of handling a Chinese invasion. If you look how inept Russia was in executing a land invasion, just imagine how difficult it would be for China to land a force over a hundred miles of ocean..
The US would provide Naval and Air support to Taiwan. Ground forces would not be needed.
 
Nobody would volunteer? "Being thrust into a lethal battle" is what made the United States independent from England. "Being thrust into a lethal battle" is what kept the United States and our allies free of Nazi aggression.. A drag queen philosophy of recruitment in the Armed Forces diminishes all the sacrifices of all the military heroes in American history> Maybe that's the old dude's intent or he ain't got a clue of what his radical appointments are up to.
 
In all of the wars fought by the U.S. in its history, part of the plan was to send soldiers to certain death, if warranted to achieve a clear objective.

Take D-Day as the most striking example in modern times. Our commanders knew that we were attacking positions that were nearly impregnable. They knew that a significant percentage of our soldiers and sailor were going to perish in the attempt, and yet the generals did not hesitate (other than for the weather). 25% casualties was the expectation.

We took that same mentality into Korea and even to Vietnam. If an objective was militarily important, the commander would send troops in, even knowing that some percentage of them were going to die in the attempt.

That philosophy ended with the invasion of Iraq and is now dead. Compare the casualties from Vietnam - 50,000 killed, more or less - with Afghanistan, a war that lasted for about the same length of time, overall: less than 2,500 in ten years. Medical advancements surely had something to do with the dramatic difference in casualties, but the main driver in the reduced number of battlefield deaths was the change in military philosophy. NO commander in Iraq or Afghanistan ordered his troops into battles where casualties were a virtual certainty.

I attribute this dramatic change in battlefield philosophy to the advent of the all-volunteer army. NOBODY would volunteer, knowing that he might be thrust into a lethal battle on purpose.

Now look at what's going on in Ukraine. Those commanders, on both sides, employ the "old" military philosophy that an objective can outweigh the cost of a few lives. They send their troops into the occasional battle when they know some won't come out of it alive. Obviously, this is much more the case with the Russians, but also Ukraine.

What's my point? We are unprepared for a war right now. We have the weapons, the ammo, the technology, but our philosophy of fighting is incompatible with "winning" any war.

It is not my opinion that the draft must come back; it is a fact. There are many justifications for it, but this is the primary driver: We cannot rely on volunteers when the chances of getting killed or maimed goes above, say, 10%. NO ONE will volunteer. And recruiting is difficult enough now, due to the Biden/Obama wokeness initiatives.

Modern media has romanticized war to the point children will trip over their own feet in order to get to the front—whichever future front that turns out to be. Modern children, judging by thousands of comments they've made beneath You Tube first person shooter video game videos, worship the idea of killing other human beings in war—and the even more fantasized glory they think comes as a result.

The above being said, other than a rapidly aging cadre of veterans of Iraq, Afghanistan the rest of the Global War on Terror, you won't find enough trainable young American men and women to fight a future near peer war such as D-day, the Battle of the Bulge or whatever other historical meatgrinder you come up with; these days America's youth are almost exclusively too dumb, too overweight, too timid, too confused, too attached at the brain to smart devices to be trained to survive combat on their own initiative, even after months or years of training.

Ukrainian and Russian youth, by and large, are much, much tougher than our own American equivalents—as are the youth of, say, Turkey, China, North Korea even Japan, where their ancient system of death before dishonor still breeds a useful military fanaticism to achieve and succeed.

Any future mass casualty potential conflict the USA participates in will have to be fought largely with unmanned technology and airpower—from a great distance.
 
There are many civilized countries that have a compulsory draft - Israel and Finland, to name two.

It is not a good situation when the young people of a nation believe that they owe it nothing. Most pay no taxes and are net consumers of public resources, rather than providers.

If China gets serious with us (not to mention Russia), either in Taiwan or elsewhere, there are simply not enough enlistees to meet the demands that such a war/conflict would demand. Technology is fine, but people is where the rubber meets the road. Cannon fodder, if you must.

We are in the early stages of "getting caught with our [figurative] pants down." In this, as in so many other things, "we" are dumb as a rock.
Have we no nukes?
 

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