Thank God I live in a country that allows these IDIOTS to live!!!

[Rocko]

Sallow should the US have gotten involed in WW 2 prior to pearl harbor??

 

[Old Rocks]

The Democrats went along, but the wording was 'if neccessary'. The Iraq war was not neccessary and was based on lies told by the Bush administration. It was a criminal war, the case of Abu Ghariub was the modus operendi of the Cheney clique. The Bush Administration dragged our flag though mud and fecal material with their 'legal' torture.

 

[Old Rocks]

Sallow should the US have gotten involed in WW 2 prior to pearl harbor??

We were involved in WW2 prior to Pearl Harbor. What do you think Lend-Lease was?

 

[Sallow]

Sallow should the US have gotten involed in WW 2 prior to pearl harbor??

Based on what it knew?

No.

Based on history?

Yes.

 

[Sallow]

Sallow should the US have gotten involed in WW 2 prior to pearl harbor??

We were involved in WW2 prior to Pearl Harbor. What do you think Lend-Lease was?

Lest we forget the "Flying Tigers".

Flying Tigers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rocko]

Sallow should the US have gotten involed in WW 2 prior to pearl harbor??

Based on what it knew?

No.

Based on history?

Yes.

Pear Harbor proves your philosophy on when to engauge dangerous. Next time it might not be a Pearl Harbor or 911, it may be a nuke.

 

[JoeB131]

They went along with giving the President the Authority to use force based on the intelligence the President cherry picked for them. And he used that authority rather quickly.

Personally I joined 250,000 people in NYC to protest the war. Unlike the Democrats in Congress, I firmly believed Bush was lying.

Oh, please. It's easy to be at a protest. then you go home to your nice safe bed that is safe because the men in uniform you stab in the back are keeping it safe for you.

This nonsense that the President "Cherry Picked" information is horsecrap and always was. The Democrats were saying the same things in 1998 that Saddam had WMD's

RightWingNews.com :: Archives

The Democrats voted for the war because they figured it would be over in a couple of months, and then after Bush enjoyed his victory lap, they could get back to bashing him on the economy. Which is pretty much how they did his Dad in 1992.

What they didn't count on was

1) The economy getting better.
2) The war dragging on, having to reconcile with their anti-war base and most Americans who really thought Saddam was a bad guy.
3) John Kerry being such a two-faced bug-wit.

So it was all really kind of cynical, and our troops deserve better. If a Democrat voted for the war not because he thought it was a good idea, but because he wanted to get re-elected in 2002, then that was kind of contemptable. But you didn't hold any of those people to account, did you?

Because it wasn't about the war, it was about politics.

 

[Caroljo]

Sallow should the US have gotten involed in WW 2 prior to pearl harbor??

Based on what it knew?

No.

Based on history?

Yes.

So based on that answer....maybe 50 yrs from now you'll see that this war was necessary? I think someday people will realize this.

 

[Old Rocks]

Pure fucking bullshit. The Iraq war will never be considered neccessary. It will be regarded historically the in the same manner as the Trail of Bitter Tears. Unneccessary, and damnded wrong.

 

[Sallow]

They went along with giving the President the Authority to use force based on the intelligence the President cherry picked for them. And he used that authority rather quickly.

Personally I joined 250,000 people in NYC to protest the war. Unlike the Democrats in Congress, I firmly believed Bush was lying.

Oh, please. It's easy to be at a protest. then you go home to your nice safe bed that is safe because the men in uniform you stab in the back are keeping it safe for you.

This nonsense that the President "Cherry Picked" information is horsecrap and always was. The Democrats were saying the same things in 1998 that Saddam had WMD's

RightWingNews.com :: Archives

The Democrats voted for the war because they figured it would be over in a couple of months, and then after Bush enjoyed his victory lap, they could get back to bashing him on the economy. Which is pretty much how they did his Dad in 1992.

What they didn't count on was

1) The economy getting better.
2) The war dragging on, having to reconcile with their anti-war base and most Americans who really thought Saddam was a bad guy.
3) John Kerry being such a two-faced bug-wit.

So it was all really kind of cynical, and our troops deserve better. If a Democrat voted for the war not because he thought it was a good idea, but because he wanted to get re-elected in 2002, then that was kind of contemptable. But you didn't hold any of those people to account, did you?

Because it wasn't about the war, it was about politics.

It was absolutely wasn't bullshit. Bush cherry picked photos showing bases that were destroyed by the first gulf war. He also left out certain things, like they knew it was Saudi operatives financing the terrorists not Iraqi ones.

In any case Bush was harping on an Iraq invasion prior to the first election. I knew 9/11 meant Iraq was going to get hit. No matter what. It didn't matter that after the gulf war, the Clinton sanctions and bombings...that Iraq was in no shape whatsoever to make war on anyone..let alone marshal a viable defense. Anyone paying the slightest bit of attention knew this. But it was a very frightening time..and the Bush administration ruthlessly rolled all opposition to the run up to war by calling into question the patriotism of those that were against it.

 

[Sallow]

Sallow should the US have gotten involed in WW 2 prior to pearl harbor??

Based on what it knew?

No.

Based on history?

Yes.

So based on that answer....maybe 50 yrs from now you'll see that this war was necessary? I think someday people will realize this.

No.

Based on this answer people 50 years from now will say the same thing about the Iraqi war.

Shortly after WWII no one was questioning it validity. Especially after the Death Camps were liberated. Even some Germans were "shocked".

 

[uscitizen]

It wasn't a crime. You have every right to disagree with the war. I also did not think it was the right choice to go to war, and we were wrong with our premise, but we toppled a dictator who was a sponsor of terroism, and Iraq as well as the world is better place after the fact.

Iraq never attacked the US. It was a crime. There was absolutely no reason to go to war with Iraq. That includes..like ever. Gulf War I, Clinton's bombings, Gulf War II. And Iraq will revert to the same sort of state it was under Saddam Hussien. That is, if a full on civil war doesn't break out. Either way..lots of Iraqis are going to die.

And if Democrats seriously argued those points, you'd have credibility.

They went along with all of those things.

Freedom fries?
You are either with us or for the terrorists?

Yes most of the dems caved in and deserve no slack on this either.
But without a doubt Bush and the right wingers pushed the Iraq invasion and occupation.

 

[JoeB131]

It was absolutely wasn't bullshit. Bush cherry picked photos showing bases that were destroyed by the first gulf war. He also left out certain things, like they knew it was Saudi operatives financing the terrorists not Iraqi ones.

In any case Bush was harping on an Iraq invasion prior to the first election. I knew 9/11 meant Iraq was going to get hit. No matter what. It didn't matter that after the gulf war, the Clinton sanctions and bombings...that Iraq was in no shape whatsoever to make war on anyone..let alone marshal a viable defense. Anyone paying the slightest bit of attention knew this. But it was a very frightening time..and the Bush administration ruthlessly rolled all opposition to the run up to war by calling into question the patriotism of those that were against it.

again, you danced over the fact that Democrats were calling for Saddam's ouster all the way back to the 1990's.

And, yeah, I'd call into question the patriotism of anyone who would defend Saddam, a man who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people. Also, their decency and common sense.

But the Democrats were being purely cynical. They voted for the war because of the polls, not the intelligence.

 

[Mac1958]

Based on what it knew?

No.

Based on history?

Yes.

So based on that answer....maybe 50 yrs from now you'll see that this war was necessary? I think someday people will realize this.

No.

Based on this answer people 50 years from now will say the same thing about the Iraqi war.

Shortly after WWII no one was questioning it validity. Especially after the Death Camps were liberated. Even some Germans were "shocked".

BINGO.

World War I, World War II, primitive but sadly necessary. This, of course, back in the days when military intelligence was minimal (compared to today) and brute force was unfortunately necessary.

World War I, World War II. Probably Desert Storm. That's about it.

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Speaking of being 'allowed', why do the moderators allow this idiot to flood the board with same threads over and over again? I mean, I think we all appreciate the libertarian attitude towards posting freedom, but jeezus,

even freedom of speech doesn't allow a mental patient to walk down the middle of road every day in his pajamas babbling incoherently..

 

[JoeB131]

Iraq never attacked the US. It was a crime. There was absolutely no reason to go to war with Iraq. That includes..like ever. Gulf War I, Clinton's bombings, Gulf War II. And Iraq will revert to the same sort of state it was under Saddam Hussien. That is, if a full on civil war doesn't break out. Either way..lots of Iraqis are going to die.

And if Democrats seriously argued those points, you'd have credibility.

They went along with all of those things.

Freedom fries?
You are either with us or for the terrorists?

Yes most of the dems caved in and deserve no slack on this either.But without a doubt Bush and the right wingers pushed the Iraq invasion and occupation.

But you gave them a ton of slack.

You nominated John Kerry, despite the fact he supported the war.

You didn't vote out ONE Democrat Senator who voted for the war. You tried with poor Joe Leiberman, the only guy who didn't Genuflect at Code Pink's Altar.

And the thing was, Obama didn't order an immediate surrender, he got out of Iraq on Bush's timetable, and they've locked Cindy Sheehan in the attic like a crazy aunt.

There are a lot of things you can criticize about Bush and the war, but he went to war on a principle. He really thought Saddam was evil and had to go.

As opposed to Democrats who just looked at polls and decided what their position was based on them.

 

[Rocko]

Pure fucking bullshit. The Iraq war will never be considered neccessary. It will be regarded historically the in the same manner as the Trail of Bitter Tears. Unneccessary, and damnded wrong.

even if a Iraq becomes a thriving healthy democracy?

 

[Lovebears65]

The Iraq war was a crime.

Simple as that.

If anything the Libya thing was a crime. Obama did not even go to congress for that . At least Bush went to congress and they all approved it .

 

[Sallow]

again, you danced over the fact that Democrats were calling for Saddam's ouster all the way back to the 1990's.

And, yeah, I'd call into question the patriotism of anyone who would defend Saddam, a man who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people. Also, their decency and common sense.

But the Democrats were being purely cynical. They voted for the war because of the polls, not the intelligence.

I didn't dance around anything. Anyone with even the most rudimentary spook smarts knows that Saddam was helped into power by the CIA. And after that..had a long and curious relationship with the United States. He thought of himself as the new Saladin and admired Josef Stalin. So he went on hedging his bets between Superpowers and became a proxy and strawman for US politicians. Great to use as a force against states like Iran. And great to shake a fist at when you needed a bad guy.

In any case..I think most people thought Iraq was going to be like Panama. And they weren't:
A. Listening.
B. Recognizing that George W. was no George HW.

 

[Mac1958]

Pure fucking bullshit. The Iraq war will never be considered neccessary. It will be regarded historically the in the same manner as the Trail of Bitter Tears. Unneccessary, and damnded wrong.

even if a Iraq becomes a thriving healthy democracy?

Even if Iraq becomes a thriving, healthy democracy.

It's not our right to invade sovereign countries and build a new nation.

And especially at the cost of thousands of American lives, body parts, minds and destroyed military families. Nor at the cost of hundreds of billions of dollars we don't have.

It's not our place at any cost. Certainly not at the cost we've paid.

.