Texas Open-Carry, Boys and their Deadly Toys.

[2aguy]

Brain...here is a more comprehensive look at shootings in the news and what they tell us about shootings covered by the media....the time is longer and the number of stories is greater...but again....it isn't done with any real scientific method behind it......and they even admit it.....

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"

"The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports also significantly overstate murders and understate defensive gun uses. If the police investigat a homicide and ask the district attorney to charge someone with murder or manslaughter, that is reported as a murder to the Uniform Crime Reports program. But district attorney's will often investigate a case in the weeks afterward, find evidence that the killing was justifiable or excusable homicide, and drop the case entirely.

Further, some of the charges, are found to be justifiable or excusable homocide by judges and juries during a trial. this is very often the case in spousal abuse situations where a woman defends herself or her children from an estranged husband.9 A killing initially charged as a murder or negligent homicide that is later reclassified as a justifiable or excusable homicide, will not be moved in the Uniform Crime Reports data from the homicide column to the justifiable homicide column."

---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....


And they say because of this.......

"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set

At one time, it was widely believed that a fairly large percentage of defensive gun uses
might be criminals defending themselves from other criminals: marijuana growers protecting their crops, gang members de- fending themselves from other gang mem- bers, a falling out between members of a criminal enterprise. That was only specula- tion. For a long time, there was not much in the way of actual data.

Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12

There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.

In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.

As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.

Right wing/pro gun often wrong Cato? You must be joking.

Brain....are you really that much of a moron....the post you listed takes their 482 stories directly from the NRA website.....are you that clueless.......?

A moron believes there are millions of DGUs when no fact from reality supports it.

The breadth and depth of the research speaks for itself....and these are just 16 studies that are easy to find...there are more out there and they also support the numbers....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[Brain357]

Brain...here is a more comprehensive look at shootings in the news and what they tell us about shootings covered by the media....the time is longer and the number of stories is greater...but again....it isn't done with any real scientific method behind it......and they even admit it.....

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"

"The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports also significantly overstate murders and understate defensive gun uses. If the police investigat a homicide and ask the district attorney to charge someone with murder or manslaughter, that is reported as a murder to the Uniform Crime Reports program. But district attorney's will often investigate a case in the weeks afterward, find evidence that the killing was justifiable or excusable homicide, and drop the case entirely.

Further, some of the charges, are found to be justifiable or excusable homocide by judges and juries during a trial. this is very often the case in spousal abuse situations where a woman defends herself or her children from an estranged husband.9 A killing initially charged as a murder or negligent homicide that is later reclassified as a justifiable or excusable homicide, will not be moved in the Uniform Crime Reports data from the homicide column to the justifiable homicide column."

---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....


And they say because of this.......

"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set

At one time, it was widely believed that a fairly large percentage of defensive gun uses
might be criminals defending themselves from other criminals: marijuana growers protecting their crops, gang members de- fending themselves from other gang mem- bers, a falling out between members of a criminal enterprise. That was only specula- tion. For a long time, there was not much in the way of actual data.

Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12

There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.

In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.

As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review.

Right wing/pro gun often wrong Cato? You must be joking.

Brain....are you really that much of a moron....the post you listed takes their 482 stories directly from the NRA website.....are you that clueless.......?

A moron believes there are millions of DGUs when no fact from reality supports it.

The breadth and depth of the research speaks for itself....and these are just 16 studies that are easy to find...there are more out there and they also support the numbers....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes look at how accurate surveys are. Such good researchers. One day the answer is 700k, and the next 3.6 million. So accurate.

 

[2aguy]

brain....you are a moron....it is what happened in the stories they collected....not all defensive gun uses.....

Yes a sample of 5 years of confirmed DGUs. You think 50 unconfirmed positive responses from a survey 25 years ago confirms millions of DGUs and you call me a moron? Don't be such a joke. This is 5 years of confirmed DGUs.

Moron, the studies I post are from actual researchers trained in research....conducted over a 40 year period, 16 different studies, done by both public and private researchers, many of them anti gun researchers, and they come up with the numbers using actual research methodologies.....

Not a single confirmed dgu in those studies. And so accurate the results range from 500k- 3.6 million. And the best one is working with a whole 50 positives.

16 actual studies brain.......lying about them doesn't make the truth go away......and a couple were funded by clinton and obama......not exactly friends to the 2nd Amendment......

We'll post your study about how often criminals are shot and killed in defense. I posted mine, so far you have nothing.

Brain...I acceped your 230 number already...just to be kind to a gun grabber who has difficulty with reality...and I explained it to you and the other gun grabbers.....you don't like the number because it denies your view that gun owners are crazed sociopaths just waiting to kill people...when in truth they use amazing restraint in horrible situations.......

The truth and reality show that you and the other gun grabbers are wrong, completely wrong on the gun issues....

 

[Brain357]

Yes a sample of 5 years of confirmed DGUs. You think 50 unconfirmed positive responses from a survey 25 years ago confirms millions of DGUs and you call me a moron? Don't be such a joke. This is 5 years of confirmed DGUs.

Moron, the studies I post are from actual researchers trained in research....conducted over a 40 year period, 16 different studies, done by both public and private researchers, many of them anti gun researchers, and they come up with the numbers using actual research methodologies.....

Not a single confirmed dgu in those studies. And so accurate the results range from 500k- 3.6 million. And the best one is working with a whole 50 positives.

16 actual studies brain.......lying about them doesn't make the truth go away......and a couple were funded by clinton and obama......not exactly friends to the 2nd Amendment......

We'll post your study about how often criminals are shot and killed in defense. I posted mine, so far you have nothing.

Brain...I acceped your 230 number already...just to be kind to a gun grabber who has difficulty with reality...and I explained it to you and the other gun grabbers.....you don't like the number because it denies your view that gun owners are crazed sociopaths just waiting to kill people...when in truth they use amazing restraint in horrible situations.......

The truth and reality show that you and the other gun grabbers are wrong, completely wrong on the gun issues....

What percent of DGUs end with a dead criminal. I gave my study, what you got?

 

[2aguy]

Brain...here is a more comprehensive look at shootings in the news and what they tell us about shootings covered by the media....the time is longer and the number of stories is greater...but again....it isn't done with any real scientific method behind it......and they even admit it.....

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"

---------------------------
They then go on to explain how this can distort numbers by siting an article from Time magazine that looked at deaths in one day and then went back to check on the cases a year later....the 14 non law enforcement justifiable homicides went up to 28 because a year later the 14 other gun crimes were found to be justifiable homicides....and at least 43 other murder cases had not gone to trial....


And they say because of this.......

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set


As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........

Right wing/pro gun often wrong Cato? You must be joking.

Brain....are you really that much of a moron....the post you listed takes their 482 stories directly from the NRA website.....are you that clueless.......?

A moron believes there are millions of DGUs when no fact from reality supports it.

The breadth and depth of the research speaks for itself....and these are just 16 studies that are easy to find...there are more out there and they also support the numbers....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes look at how accurate surveys are. Such good researchers. One day the answer is 700k, and the next 3.6 million. So accurate.

And that is why Kleck's research is so important....he cleaned up the methods, and came up with the most accurate figures using the best methodologies for the research.......

 

[Brain357]

Right wing/pro gun often wrong Cato? You must be joking.

Brain....are you really that much of a moron....the post you listed takes their 482 stories directly from the NRA website.....are you that clueless.......?

A moron believes there are millions of DGUs when no fact from reality supports it.

The breadth and depth of the research speaks for itself....and these are just 16 studies that are easy to find...there are more out there and they also support the numbers....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes look at how accurate surveys are. Such good researchers. One day the answer is 700k, and the next 3.6 million. So accurate.

And that is why Kleck's research is so important....he cleaned up the methods, and came up with the most accurate figures using the best methodologies for the research.......

He took 50 unconfirmed positives and extrapolated to 2.5 million. Meanwhile nothing in the real world supports his numbers. He even has more crimes defended than are committed. What a joke.

 

[2aguy]

Brain....are you really that much of a moron....the post you listed takes their 482 stories directly from the NRA website.....are you that clueless.......?

A moron believes there are millions of DGUs when no fact from reality supports it.

The breadth and depth of the research speaks for itself....and these are just 16 studies that are easy to find...there are more out there and they also support the numbers....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes look at how accurate surveys are. Such good researchers. One day the answer is 700k, and the next 3.6 million. So accurate.

And that is why Kleck's research is so important....he cleaned up the methods, and came up with the most accurate figures using the best methodologies for the research.......

He took 50 unconfirmed positives and extrapolated to 2.5 million. Meanwhile nothing in the real world supports his numbers. He even has more crimes defended than are committed. What a joke.

No...and no...and you know that he states in his rebuttal to the critics that the burglary number in the NCVS is not complete and can't accurately capture all the burglaries in the country...they even miss over 30% of rapes in the NCVS and they are supposed to look into that number...and his research is available to any who want to see how it was conducted and the numbers he found...and of course his isn't the only study showing these numbers...considering the lowest number of the studies doesn't go below 764,000 uses each year....again....

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[Brain357]

A moron believes there are millions of DGUs when no fact from reality supports it.

The breadth and depth of the research speaks for itself....and these are just 16 studies that are easy to find...there are more out there and they also support the numbers....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes look at how accurate surveys are. Such good researchers. One day the answer is 700k, and the next 3.6 million. So accurate.

And that is why Kleck's research is so important....he cleaned up the methods, and came up with the most accurate figures using the best methodologies for the research.......

He took 50 unconfirmed positives and extrapolated to 2.5 million. Meanwhile nothing in the real world supports his numbers. He even has more crimes defended than are committed. What a joke.

No...and no...and you know that he states in his rebuttal to the critics that the burglary number in the NCVS is not complete and can't accurately capture all the burglaries in the country...they even miss over 30% of rapes in the NCVS and they are supposed to look into that number...and his research is available to any who want to see how it was conducted and the numbers he found...and of course his isn't the only study showing these numbers...considering the lowest number of the studies doesn't go below 764,000 uses each year....again....

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

That is your response? All you have are surveys. Nothing in the real world supports it. The surveys don't even agree. Give it up already.

 

[2aguy]

The breadth and depth of the research speaks for itself....and these are just 16 studies that are easy to find...there are more out there and they also support the numbers....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Yes look at how accurate surveys are. Such good researchers. One day the answer is 700k, and the next 3.6 million. So accurate.

And that is why Kleck's research is so important....he cleaned up the methods, and came up with the most accurate figures using the best methodologies for the research.......

He took 50 unconfirmed positives and extrapolated to 2.5 million. Meanwhile nothing in the real world supports his numbers. He even has more crimes defended than are committed. What a joke.

No...and no...and you know that he states in his rebuttal to the critics that the burglary number in the NCVS is not complete and can't accurately capture all the burglaries in the country...they even miss over 30% of rapes in the NCVS and they are supposed to look into that number...and his research is available to any who want to see how it was conducted and the numbers he found...and of course his isn't the only study showing these numbers...considering the lowest number of the studies doesn't go below 764,000 uses each year....again....

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

That is your response? All you have are surveys. Nothing in the real world supports it. The surveys don't even agree. Give it up already.

You truly are dumb brain.....are you feeling well....your craziness seems greater today...I sense a disturbance in the force.....

 

[Brain357]

Yes look at how accurate surveys are. Such good researchers. One day the answer is 700k, and the next 3.6 million. So accurate.

And that is why Kleck's research is so important....he cleaned up the methods, and came up with the most accurate figures using the best methodologies for the research.......

He took 50 unconfirmed positives and extrapolated to 2.5 million. Meanwhile nothing in the real world supports his numbers. He even has more crimes defended than are committed. What a joke.

No...and no...and you know that he states in his rebuttal to the critics that the burglary number in the NCVS is not complete and can't accurately capture all the burglaries in the country...they even miss over 30% of rapes in the NCVS and they are supposed to look into that number...and his research is available to any who want to see how it was conducted and the numbers he found...and of course his isn't the only study showing these numbers...considering the lowest number of the studies doesn't go below 764,000 uses each year....again....

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

That is your response? All you have are surveys. Nothing in the real world supports it. The surveys don't even agree. Give it up already.

You truly are dumb brain.....are you feeling well....your craziness seems greater today...I sense a disturbance in the force.....

I feel good. So far you have defended debunked surveys with debunked surveys. Where is something from reality? You realize those 2.5 million never happened right?

Still waiting on your study for what percent of the time a criminal is shot and killed.