Texas Flooding

Was it wrong not to evacuate?


  • Total voters
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The head of Emergency ops, a Judge made the the joint decsion:

Ultimately, mayors and county judges are charged with making such decisions. Leaders in Houston and Harris County told residents to stay put ahead of the storm and have since defended those decisions — even as bayous spill into the streets in what might be the worst flood event the area has ever seen.

“To suggest that we should have evacuated 2 million people is an outrageous statement,” Harris County Judge Emmett told CNN on Sunday.

Emmett and others have offered a litany of reasons for hunkering down. That includes the reality that such a mass evacuation can turn into logistical nightmare with huge safety risks of its own.

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“People disproportionately die in cars from floods, so evacuation is not as straightforward a call as seems,” Marshall Shepherd, a program director in atmospheric sciences at the University of Georgia, tweeted Sunday.

Shepherd pointed to data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration showing that drivers accounted for 66 percent of U.S. flood fatalities in 2014.

For a vivid example of what can go wrong in a large-scale evacuation, Texans can look twelve years back to Hurricane Rita, when more than 3 million people from south and southeast Texas set off on one of the largest evacuations in U.S. history.

The backdrop of that blistering summer in 2005: Just three weeks earlier, Hurricane Katrina had submerged New Orleans and killed 1,200 people when Rita barreled toward the coastline. Texans didn’t want to stick around to see how Rita would compare, so they bolted — or tried to.

Traffic jams stretched across hundreds of miles over two days, and many people ran out of gas. Dozens died from accidents and heat-related illnesses, all before Rita even made landfall.

Of the 139 deaths that the state linked to Hurricane Rita, 73 occurred before the storm hit Texas. Twenty-three people died in a bus fire. Ten others died from hyperthermia due to heat exposure. In the years since Rita, state and local officials say new laws and better planning would help the state’s next evacuation go more smoothly, but Houston mayor Sylvester Turner this weekend indicated Rita’s legacy factored into his decision.

“You cannot put, in the city of Houston, 2.3 million people on the road…That is dangerous,” he said in a press conference Sunday. “If you think the situation right now is bad — you give an order to evacuate, you create a nightmare."

Emmett, the Harris County Judge, has pointed to additional factors in defense of calls to stay, drawing distinctions between danger from Harvey — primarily rainfall — and the hurricanes that struck before it.

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“When we have hurricanes, we know who to evacuate, because you have a storm surge coming, and we have that down to a very fine art,” he told CNN Sunday. “In this case, we have a rain event. Unless you know where the rain is going to fall, we don’t know who to evacuate.”

While ordering a hurricane evacuation is common, telling residents to flee a rainstorm is rare, if not unprecedented. “We’ve had three major rain events in the past two years. This is now the fourth," Emmett said.

Emmett, in the CNN interview, bristled at those who were pushing conflicting messages. That included retired Lt. General Russel Honoré, who commanded a joint task force that responded to Hurricane Katrina.

“If you are living in an area that’s flooded before, you need to evacuate,” he told CNBC Friday. “Because it’s going to flood, and the roads are going to close and when the roads are going to close, the power is going to go out, and you’re going to be isolated in that home alone.”

Alston, who said she didn’t realize the full scope of the storm until the day before it struck, said it was “mind boggling to see the conflicting messages from city and state officials.”

Abbott, for his part, said he’s not spending his time second-guessing local officials.

“As far as the evacuation, now’s not the time to second guess the decisions that were made,” he said at a news conference Sunday. “What’s important is that everybody work together to ensure that we are going to first save lives and then second help people across the state rebuild.”

Harris County wasn't the only Harvey-hit community where residents were told to stay in place. Corpus Christi and Nueces County refrained from calling for mandatory evacuations before the storm took aim Friday.

Corpus Christi was largely spared from massive property damage and life-threatening destruction when the storm hit farther east along the coast, killing at least one person in Aransas County, where an evacuation order was mandatory.

“I think we made the right decision,” Corpus Christi Mayor Joe McComb said Friday, before the storm hit. “That was after a lot of conversation, a lot of dialogue.”

Alana Rocha, Edgar Walters and Neena Satija contributed to this report.

Read related Tribune coverage:

  • This is already Houston’s "worst flood." It’s only going to get worse. [Full story]

  • As Hurricane Harvey made landfall, no area felt the impact as harshly as Aransas County. [Full story]

  • Before Hurricane Rita hit the Texas coast in 2005, there was an evacuation marked by a traffic disaster. [Full story]
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TL;DR. :boohoo:
 
gettyimages-840594452_master.jpg
 
The ignorance expressed by some of the Monday quarterbacks here is pathetic.

Even thinking about evacuating Houston is just plain stupid. There'd have been gridlock with many of those roads now under 10-20 feet of water.

The public was warned to evacuate low lying, flood prone areas.

Areas which have never flooded before, are flooded.

This was no ordinary hurricane and living 60 years in Florida, I've been through some bad ones and one in Key West. They are NOT predictable. A shift of 10 or 20 miles can mean life or death for the people affected.

This is an epic storm. The weather maps have had to add additional colors to their rainfall measurements. Areas of their maps were showing up blank because the rainfall was higher than anything on record.

Compared to the chaos that reigned in New Orleans under then Gov. Blanco and now convicted felon and former Mayor Ray Nagin, Texas is proceeding like a church pot luck dinner under the trees.
 
Well thanks for all the responses and the votes. Personally, I think nursing homes, hospitals and other such places should have been under mandatory evacuation. Did you see all of those old people in waist deep water in their wheelchairs? That is inexcusable, IMO.
 
Well thanks for all the responses and the votes. Personally, I think nursing homes, hospitals and other such places should have been under mandatory evacuation. Did you see all of those old people in waist deep water in their wheelchairs? That is inexcusable, IMO.

The most who died during the attempted evac during rita were the elderly.
 
Well thanks for all the responses and the votes. Personally, I think nursing homes, hospitals and other such places should have been under mandatory evacuation. Did you see all of those old people in waist deep water in their wheelchairs? That is inexcusable, IMO.

The most who died during the attempted evac during rita were the elderly.

Are you saying that the old people should not have been evacuated? I don't really understand where some of you are coming from here. Those old people should have been evacuated obviously. They were wheeling around in their wheelchairs in waist high water.
 
Well thanks for all the responses and the votes. Personally, I think nursing homes, hospitals and other such places should have been under mandatory evacuation. Did you see all of those old people in waist deep water in their wheelchairs? That is inexcusable, IMO.

The most who died during the attempted evac during rita were the elderly.

Are you saying that the old people should not have been evacuated? I don't really understand where some of you are coming from here. Those old people should have been evacuated obviously. They were wheeling around in their wheelchairs in waist high water.

Yes I'm saying they shouldnt have been evaced.....they're the ones who made up most of the dead during Rita.
 
Well thanks for all the responses and the votes. Personally, I think nursing homes, hospitals and other such places should have been under mandatory evacuation. Did you see all of those old people in waist deep water in their wheelchairs? That is inexcusable, IMO.

The most who died during the attempted evac during rita were the elderly.

Are you saying that the old people should not have been evacuated? I don't really understand where some of you are coming from here. Those old people should have been evacuated obviously. They were wheeling around in their wheelchairs in waist high water.

Yes, those old people should have been evacuated. There was no need to wait that long before getting them out. I can understand their reasons for not evacuating beforehand, but once the water started coming in the building, there would have been a priority on getting those old folks out, even if it was raining hard. There was no wind damage that I'm aware of in Houston, so that couldn't be an excuse.
 
Well thanks for all the responses and the votes. Personally, I think nursing homes, hospitals and other such places should have been under mandatory evacuation. Did you see all of those old people in waist deep water in their wheelchairs? That is inexcusable, IMO.

The most who died during the attempted evac during rita were the elderly.

Are you saying that the old people should not have been evacuated? I don't really understand where some of you are coming from here. Those old people should have been evacuated obviously. They were wheeling around in their wheelchairs in waist high water.

Yes I'm saying they shouldnt have been evaced.....they're the ones who made up most of the dead during Rita.

Well I have to disagree. If they weren't evacuated, they would have drowned eventually.
 
Why should a nursing home be allowed zoning in a flood area? Hmm? Think on that one.

Who took the bribe? ;) Who was the developer? Who signed off on that?

They are responsible.
 
Well thanks for all the responses and the votes. Personally, I think nursing homes, hospitals and other such places should have been under mandatory evacuation. Did you see all of those old people in waist deep water in their wheelchairs? That is inexcusable, IMO.

The most who died during the attempted evac during rita were the elderly.

Are you saying that the old people should not have been evacuated? I don't really understand where some of you are coming from here. Those old people should have been evacuated obviously. They were wheeling around in their wheelchairs in waist high water.

Yes I'm saying they shouldnt have been evaced.....they're the ones who made up most of the dead during Rita.

Well I have to disagree. If they weren't evacuated, they would have drowned eventually.

Do you remember the doc who ended up euthanizing patience in N.O.?
 
Well thanks for all the responses and the votes. Personally, I think nursing homes, hospitals and other such places should have been under mandatory evacuation. Did you see all of those old people in waist deep water in their wheelchairs? That is inexcusable, IMO.

The most who died during the attempted evac during rita were the elderly.

Are you saying that the old people should not have been evacuated? I don't really understand where some of you are coming from here. Those old people should have been evacuated obviously. They were wheeling around in their wheelchairs in waist high water.

Yes I'm saying they shouldnt have been evaced.....they're the ones who made up most of the dead during Rita.

Well I have to disagree. If they weren't evacuated, they would have drowned eventually.

Do you remember the doc who ended up euthanizing patience in N.O.?

No. Regardless. If those people were not evacuated they would have not stood a chance. There would not be a question IF they would die, it would merely be a question as to WHEN they would die and how much they would suffer first.
 
Besides, I'm not talking about evacuating ALL of the people. I am talking about sick, disabled, and elderly patients in hospitals or institutions/schools, etc.

Q: Why were institutions like that permitted to be built in flood zones, hmm?







A: Somebody got bribed and signed off on it.
 
Why should a nursing home be allowed zoning in a flood area? Hmm? Think on that one.

Who took the bribe? ;) Who was the developer? Who signed off on that?

They are responsible.

When you build in the 100 year flood zone you dont expect flooding nor does your banker. Which is of course why you dont need flood insurance in the 100 to 500 year range to get a loan.
There've been talk about an 800 year flood...I guess we'll see.
 
Besides, I'm not talking about evacuating ALL of the people. I am talking about sick, disabled, and elderly patients in hospitals or institutions/schools, etc.

Q: Why were institutions like that permitted to be built in flood zones, hmm?







A: Somebody got bribed and signed off on it.

Well, if there are communities there, it's probably because they are needed there.
 
If you are a strong and healthy adult who is of sound mind, then that is another situation. You can choose to evacuate yourself or not. Other people who are elderly or suffering from some illness, not so much. I would be totally pissed off if that was my grandmother in that nursing home, rolling around in her wheelchair in waist deep water. Somebody has some explaining to do, I think!
 
By the time the nursing homes realized it was as bad as it was, the roads out were probably already underwater so there wasn't much anyone could do at that point. Evacuating them even before the storm could have been bad, who knows how many folks were evacuating on their own and how could they deal with the ones with intensive medical needs on the drive - take them all one by one in the ambulances when they only had what 57 hours notice it was going to be bad? Where was the nursing home, did the directors of the place know the flood was going to hit them, or did they think based on the info provided that it wasn't going to flood there?

At some point you gotta understand that nature, and especially the weather, is unpredictable. Sure we get spoiled by our weather reports, but have you ever actually paid attention to how often they're wrong, and how often they change? I've spent the better part of the summer trying to plan painting around sunny days - trust me, they suck at predicting heh

As far as the other residents, I hear a bunch of them didn't want to evac because of looters. I suppose it's a bit of a catch 22 really, do you stay and protect your stuff only to end up with it all under 10-20' of water, or do you risk evacuating and the place is high and dry for the looters to steal your stuff? You really can't win, and if you're poor and can't afford a hotel room or gas to get out of dodge, then that kind of makes the decision for you.
 

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