Teacher's view on public education system's problems

[JT8691]

I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher. I've been teaching since February and what I've found STUNS me. Here's a list of the main problems I've encountered (I teach at a public high school for the record):

-Parents lack of interest/involvement with students. I had roughly 150 students and on teacher conference night where parents come in and meet with their teachers I had a total of THREE parents come in. THREE. (I teach a requirement for graduation btw).

-When I call home to parents about students misbehaving or not doing their work most (not all) of the parents don't care, they say it's my job and problem to deal with. So when I address it with the students their response is that their parents don't care, so they don't care.

-Points for trying. This drives me CRAZY. We're encouraged to give students points for simply trying! I have students asking me why they have C's or D's-and they point out that they do all of their work. I tell them that if they give me "C work", they're going to get a "C". MANY students complain at this and expect an "A" just for doing all of their work. The (obvious) problem is that this doesn't exist in the "real world".

-Extra time. Some students who're struggling get granted extra time (under law), where I have to give them as much time as they need to complete work/tests/etc. This may be PC, but once again the problem is that this will NEVER happen for them in the "real world"

-One standard for everybody. Different classes have different personalities and different students learn at different paces/in different ways. But virtually everything has to be taught at a specific pace and in a specific way--the problem is that you can't expect 25 kids to learn at the same pace AND in the same way (let alone 150).

-The teacher's union. Luckily I live in a right to work state. I haven't had any real interaction with the actual union so I wont comment on that, BUT there are a few teachers in my department who (literally) carry around their contracts form the teacher's union and if they're asked to do something that's not on there-they'll refuse to do it. Such as putting books away at the end of the school year, or showing up 15 mins to work early for a duty (bus ramp/something similar). And you'd think that they were asked to run a marathon. The complaining blows me away. And then they wonder why teachers will less "experience" (in terms of years) get promoted to APs or Principals.

-Lack of control over situations. As a teacher I was told to NEVER touch a student. Which to me makes 100% sense. I'll give students a high five-but that's IT. The obvious problem comes about during fights, what do we do? I was instructed that even if one student is on top of the other kid and have them pinned against the ground and beating the kid to a bloody pulp that I am NOT to pull the kid off of the other. I have to call down to the main office and wait for our officer (we have a LEO on campus) or an AP/someone else to resolve the situation. Basically we're not allowed to grab a student by the shoulders and pull them off of another student who's getting the crap kicked out of them....because of fear of a lawsuit. Luckily I have complete control over my classroom, but this can (and has) happened to other teachers before.

-Teachers just clocking in. I think this bothers me the most. I'm usually at my school an extra hour or so (depending on the day) after we can leave. And I'm usually there about a half hour before we have to be. Some teachers book and just bolt. Teaching isn't a career where you should be doing this in my opinion.

-Students refusing to do work, and who fail without caring. I've had students with a 5.6% and 11.4% in class and BRAG about it. They think it's cool to get bad grades. And yet many out there are ready to subsidize them when they're out of highschool. They'll tell you that somehow "we" (society, teachers, school, etc). have let them down....because they wont admit that they brought it upon themselves. There's no accountability. I've seen quite a few kids drop-out and there's always 2 reasons (I've spoken with more seasoned teachers and they agree): 1) They don't show up to school. 2) They don't care about their grades.

I know I've done nothing but complain in this thread, but it's just very disheartening to see all of these obvious problems in my very limited experience and to see that the "solution" is by throwing more money at schools (it's not), or coddling the students. The coddling of kids is going to be a huge downfall for them. It's a crutch.

 

[Esmeralda]

How would you fix the problem? What would you do? What do you suggest should be done? Or are you just venting? Certainly, your frustration is understandable.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's working as planned.

Our educational system was sabotaged and is now designed to "Graduate" generations of permanently uneducated underachievers who must rely on the government for their sustenance, vote Democrat and then go out and have children of their own.

It's a perfect system, it's just not geared to make kids succeed

 

[JT8691]

How would you fix the problem? What would you do? What do you suggest should be done? Or are you just venting? Certainly, your frustration is understandable.

Well I don't think that there's a quick fix, it's going to take generation(s) to fix. But in an ideal world the following changes I think could be done realistically either immediately or within the end of the decade:

-End tenure of teachers. Not every teacher on tenure sucks. In fact most teachers at my schools are very good at what they do. There are a handful of ones who shouldn't be teachers though

-Pay teachers based on performance. Where I live we kind of have this. If we meet certain criteria (student test grades improvements, in-class evaluations of us, etc.) we get bonuses at the end of the semester.

-Don't just pass students through just because they completed their work. Many kids do a half-butted job on their work and hand it in and get A's. They then expect that to happen in EVERY class they take, and in the "real world" after school. The easy A's are given for 2 main reasons: A)school/county encourages it, OR B)the teacher is too lazy to grade the work for content, and just grades on completion (this is more rare, but I have heard a few teachers actually say this).

-Give teachers more control of their classrooms. Recently it's becoming more and more rigid on what teachers can and cannot teach in their classrooms and HOW they do so. Basically we're given books that tell us all of the lessons that we have to teach. The exact lessons/work. The problem with this obviously is that a class may not be on that level yet, or be above that level and the work isn't right for that classroom. The book cannot make that decision based on the class, but the teacher can.

-The parent situation obviously can't be addressed by the school system/teachers. I can't make parents care about their student's educational success/future. This has to be done through society as a whole.

 

[bodecea]

How would you fix the problem? What would you do? What do you suggest should be done? Or are you just venting? Certainly, your frustration is understandable.

Well I don't think that there's a quick fix, it's going to take generation(s) to fix. But in an ideal world the following changes I think could be done realistically either immediately or within the end of the decade:

-End tenure of teachers. Not every teacher on tenure sucks. In fact most teachers at my schools are very good at what they do. There are a handful of ones who shouldn't be teachers though

-Pay teachers based on performance. Where I live we kind of have this. If we meet certain criteria (student test grades improvements, in-class evaluations of us, etc.) we get bonuses at the end of the semester.

-Don't just pass students through just because they completed their work. Many kids do a half-butted job on their work and hand it in and get A's. They then expect that to happen in EVERY class they take, and in the "real world" after school. The easy A's are given for 2 main reasons: A)school/county encourages it, OR B)the teacher is too lazy to grade the work for content, and just grades on completion (this is more rare, but I have heard a few teachers actually say this).

-Give teachers more control of their classrooms. Recently it's becoming more and more rigid on what teachers can and cannot teach in their classrooms and HOW they do so. Basically we're given books that tell us all of the lessons that we have to teach. The exact lessons/work. The problem with this obviously is that a class may not be on that level yet, or be above that level and the work isn't right for that classroom. The book cannot make that decision based on the class, but the teacher can.

-The parent situation obviously can't be addressed by the school system/teachers. I can't make parents care about their student's educational success/future. This has to be done through society as a whole.

The problem with the bolded part is, how do you get teachers to teach the low end students then....?

IMO, we need to bring back tracking, vocational school, and school choice FOR the school. Not make the schools want to retain the dirtballs because of the money they get.

 

[Moonglow]

Yeah, stop the proliferation of high pay for supers also.All they really do is push for higher real estate taxes and more schools..

 

[Disir]

I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher. I've been teaching since February and what I've found STUNS me. Here's a list of the main problems I've encountered (I teach at a public high school for the record):

-Parents lack of interest/involvement with students. I had roughly 150 students and on teacher conference night where parents come in and meet with their teachers I had a total of THREE parents come in. THREE. (I teach a requirement for graduation btw).

-When I call home to parents about students misbehaving or not doing their work most (not all) of the parents don't care, they say it's my job and problem to deal with. So when I address it with the students their response is that their parents don't care, so they don't care.

-Points for trying. This drives me CRAZY. We're encouraged to give students points for simply trying! I have students asking me why they have C's or D's-and they point out that they do all of their work. I tell them that if they give me "C work", they're going to get a "C". MANY students complain at this and expect an "A" just for doing all of their work. The (obvious) problem is that this doesn't exist in the "real world".

-Extra time. Some students who're struggling get granted extra time (under law), where I have to give them as much time as they need to complete work/tests/etc. This may be PC, but once again the problem is that this will NEVER happen for them in the "real world"

-One standard for everybody. Different classes have different personalities and different students learn at different paces/in different ways. But virtually everything has to be taught at a specific pace and in a specific way--the problem is that you can't expect 25 kids to learn at the same pace AND in the same way (let alone 150).

-The teacher's union. Luckily I live in a right to work state. I haven't had any real interaction with the actual union so I wont comment on that, BUT there are a few teachers in my department who (literally) carry around their contracts form the teacher's union and if they're asked to do something that's not on there-they'll refuse to do it. Such as putting books away at the end of the school year, or showing up 15 mins to work early for a duty (bus ramp/something similar). And you'd think that they were asked to run a marathon. The complaining blows me away. And then they wonder why teachers will less "experience" (in terms of years) get promoted to APs or Principals.

-Lack of control over situations. As a teacher I was told to NEVER touch a student. Which to me makes 100% sense. I'll give students a high five-but that's IT. The obvious problem comes about during fights, what do we do? I was instructed that even if one student is on top of the other kid and have them pinned against the ground and beating the kid to a bloody pulp that I am NOT to pull the kid off of the other. I have to call down to the main office and wait for our officer (we have a LEO on campus) or an AP/someone else to resolve the situation. Basically we're not allowed to grab a student by the shoulders and pull them off of another student who's getting the crap kicked out of them....because of fear of a lawsuit. Luckily I have complete control over my classroom, but this can (and has) happened to other teachers before.

-Teachers just clocking in. I think this bothers me the most. I'm usually at my school an extra hour or so (depending on the day) after we can leave. And I'm usually there about a half hour before we have to be. Some teachers book and just bolt. Teaching isn't a career where you should be doing this in my opinion.

-Students refusing to do work, and who fail without caring. I've had students with a 5.6% and 11.4% in class and BRAG about it. They think it's cool to get bad grades. And yet many out there are ready to subsidize them when they're out of highschool. They'll tell you that somehow "we" (society, teachers, school, etc). have let them down....because they wont admit that they brought it upon themselves. There's no accountability. I've seen quite a few kids drop-out and there's always 2 reasons (I've spoken with more seasoned teachers and they agree): 1) They don't show up to school. 2) They don't care about their grades.

I know I've done nothing but complain in this thread, but it's just very disheartening to see all of these obvious problems in my very limited experience and to see that the "solution" is by throwing more money at schools (it's not), or coddling the students. The coddling of kids is going to be a huge downfall for them. It's a crutch.

So, where did you take your education courses at?

 

[JT8691]

How would you fix the problem? What would you do? What do you suggest should be done? Or are you just venting? Certainly, your frustration is understandable.

Well I don't think that there's a quick fix, it's going to take generation(s) to fix. But in an ideal world the following changes I think could be done realistically either immediately or within the end of the decade:

-End tenure of teachers. Not every teacher on tenure sucks. In fact most teachers at my schools are very good at what they do. There are a handful of ones who shouldn't be teachers though

-Pay teachers based on performance. Where I live we kind of have this. If we meet certain criteria (student test grades improvements, in-class evaluations of us, etc.) we get bonuses at the end of the semester.

-Don't just pass students through just because they completed their work. Many kids do a half-butted job on their work and hand it in and get A's. They then expect that to happen in EVERY class they take, and in the "real world" after school. The easy A's are given for 2 main reasons: A)school/county encourages it, OR B)the teacher is too lazy to grade the work for content, and just grades on completion (this is more rare, but I have heard a few teachers actually say this).

-Give teachers more control of their classrooms. Recently it's becoming more and more rigid on what teachers can and cannot teach in their classrooms and HOW they do so. Basically we're given books that tell us all of the lessons that we have to teach. The exact lessons/work. The problem with this obviously is that a class may not be on that level yet, or be above that level and the work isn't right for that classroom. The book cannot make that decision based on the class, but the teacher can.

-The parent situation obviously can't be addressed by the school system/teachers. I can't make parents care about their student's educational success/future. This has to be done through society as a whole.

The problem with the bolded part is, how do you get teachers to teach the low end students then....?

IMO, we need to bring back tracking, vocational school, and school choice FOR the school. Not make the schools want to retain the dirtballs because of the money they get.

You make pay bonuses based on test grade IMPROVEMENT. So in other words it's not your test grades per say, but the improvement in student's grade from one year to another.

You also get evaluated in the classroom by the school district, and your principal.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I run my own business, and after years and years of hard work I got it to the point where I can get a job AND run my business....so I decided to become a teacher. I've been teaching since February and what I've found STUNS me. Here's a list of the main problems I've encountered (I teach at a public high school for the record):

-Parents lack of interest/involvement with students. I had roughly 150 students and on teacher conference night where parents come in and meet with their teachers I had a total of THREE parents come in. THREE. (I teach a requirement for graduation btw).

-When I call home to parents about students misbehaving or not doing their work most (not all) of the parents don't care, they say it's my job and problem to deal with. So when I address it with the students their response is that their parents don't care, so they don't care.

-Points for trying. This drives me CRAZY. We're encouraged to give students points for simply trying! I have students asking me why they have C's or D's-and they point out that they do all of their work. I tell them that if they give me "C work", they're going to get a "C". MANY students complain at this and expect an "A" just for doing all of their work. The (obvious) problem is that this doesn't exist in the "real world".

-Extra time. Some students who're struggling get granted extra time (under law), where I have to give them as much time as they need to complete work/tests/etc. This may be PC, but once again the problem is that this will NEVER happen for them in the "real world"

-One standard for everybody. Different classes have different personalities and different students learn at different paces/in different ways. But virtually everything has to be taught at a specific pace and in a specific way--the problem is that you can't expect 25 kids to learn at the same pace AND in the same way (let alone 150).

-The teacher's union. Luckily I live in a right to work state. I haven't had any real interaction with the actual union so I wont comment on that, BUT there are a few teachers in my department who (literally) carry around their contracts form the teacher's union and if they're asked to do something that's not on there-they'll refuse to do it. Such as putting books away at the end of the school year, or showing up 15 mins to work early for a duty (bus ramp/something similar). And you'd think that they were asked to run a marathon. The complaining blows me away. And then they wonder why teachers will less "experience" (in terms of years) get promoted to APs or Principals.

-Lack of control over situations. As a teacher I was told to NEVER touch a student. Which to me makes 100% sense. I'll give students a high five-but that's IT. The obvious problem comes about during fights, what do we do? I was instructed that even if one student is on top of the other kid and have them pinned against the ground and beating the kid to a bloody pulp that I am NOT to pull the kid off of the other. I have to call down to the main office and wait for our officer (we have a LEO on campus) or an AP/someone else to resolve the situation. Basically we're not allowed to grab a student by the shoulders and pull them off of another student who's getting the crap kicked out of them....because of fear of a lawsuit. Luckily I have complete control over my classroom, but this can (and has) happened to other teachers before.

-Teachers just clocking in. I think this bothers me the most. I'm usually at my school an extra hour or so (depending on the day) after we can leave. And I'm usually there about a half hour before we have to be. Some teachers book and just bolt. Teaching isn't a career where you should be doing this in my opinion.

-Students refusing to do work, and who fail without caring. I've had students with a 5.6% and 11.4% in class and BRAG about it. They think it's cool to get bad grades. And yet many out there are ready to subsidize them when they're out of highschool. They'll tell you that somehow "we" (society, teachers, school, etc). have let them down....because they wont admit that they brought it upon themselves. There's no accountability. I've seen quite a few kids drop-out and there's always 2 reasons (I've spoken with more seasoned teachers and they agree): 1) They don't show up to school. 2) They don't care about their grades.

I know I've done nothing but complain in this thread, but it's just very disheartening to see all of these obvious problems in my very limited experience and to see that the "solution" is by throwing more money at schools (it's not), or coddling the students. The coddling of kids is going to be a huge downfall for them. It's a crutch.

So, where did you take your education courses at?

The Elements of Style / Edition 4 by William Strunk | Barnes & Noble

 

[Moonglow]

Teacher's view on public education system's problems

Can anyone tell me how this is wrong??? Teacher???

 

[Mr. H.]

Just wait until this teacher is eligible for tenure, and then gets shit upon.
RIF - reduction in force. The administration's way of telling you you're not welcome because
a) You're not related to anyone of importance
b) You don't move in the right "circles".

Fucking incompetent dysfunctional hierarchical dictatorial bastards.

 

[Esmeralda]

How would you fix the problem? What would you do? What do you suggest should be done? Or are you just venting? Certainly, your frustration is understandable.

Well I don't think that there's a quick fix, it's going to take generation(s) to fix. But in an ideal world the following changes I think could be done realistically either immediately or within the end of the decade:

-End tenure of teachers. Not every teacher on tenure sucks. In fact most teachers at my schools are very good at what they do. There are a handful of ones who shouldn't be teachers though

-Pay teachers based on performance. Where I live we kind of have this. If we meet certain criteria (student test grades improvements, in-class evaluations of us, etc.) we get bonuses at the end of the semester.

-Don't just pass students through just because they completed their work. Many kids do a half-butted job on their work and hand it in and get A's. They then expect that to happen in EVERY class they take, and in the "real world" after school. The easy A's are given for 2 main reasons: A)school/county encourages it, OR B)the teacher is too lazy to grade the work for content, and just grades on completion (this is more rare, but I have heard a few teachers actually say this).

-Give teachers more control of their classrooms. Recently it's becoming more and more rigid on what teachers can and cannot teach in their classrooms and HOW they do so. Basically we're given books that tell us all of the lessons that we have to teach. The exact lessons/work. The problem with this obviously is that a class may not be on that level yet, or be above that level and the work isn't right for that classroom. The book cannot make that decision based on the class, but the teacher can.

-The parent situation obviously can't be addressed by the school system/teachers. I can't make parents care about their student's educational success/future. This has to be done through society as a whole.

The problem with the bolded part is, how do you get teachers to teach the low end students then....?

IMO, we need to bring back tracking, vocational school, and school choice FOR the school. Not make the schools want to retain the dirtballs because of the money they get.

I agree with tracking and vocational schools. Probably 50% of the students in American public schools are not academically inclined and have no desire to attend academic programs in colleges and universities. Of course they are unhappy, don't perform well, and see no value in what they are studying.

BTW, are you sure public school teachers get tenure? I've never heard of that. University professors get tenure, not public school teachers. And the professors have to become full professors before they get tenure; they cannot be just instructors. It takes a few years to earn tenure as a univerisity professor.

 

[bodecea]

Well I don't think that there's a quick fix, it's going to take generation(s) to fix. But in an ideal world the following changes I think could be done realistically either immediately or within the end of the decade:

-End tenure of teachers. Not every teacher on tenure sucks. In fact most teachers at my schools are very good at what they do. There are a handful of ones who shouldn't be teachers though

-Pay teachers based on performance. Where I live we kind of have this. If we meet certain criteria (student test grades improvements, in-class evaluations of us, etc.) we get bonuses at the end of the semester.

-Don't just pass students through just because they completed their work. Many kids do a half-butted job on their work and hand it in and get A's. They then expect that to happen in EVERY class they take, and in the "real world" after school. The easy A's are given for 2 main reasons: A)school/county encourages it, OR B)the teacher is too lazy to grade the work for content, and just grades on completion (this is more rare, but I have heard a few teachers actually say this).

-Give teachers more control of their classrooms. Recently it's becoming more and more rigid on what teachers can and cannot teach in their classrooms and HOW they do so. Basically we're given books that tell us all of the lessons that we have to teach. The exact lessons/work. The problem with this obviously is that a class may not be on that level yet, or be above that level and the work isn't right for that classroom. The book cannot make that decision based on the class, but the teacher can.

-The parent situation obviously can't be addressed by the school system/teachers. I can't make parents care about their student's educational success/future. This has to be done through society as a whole.

The problem with the bolded part is, how do you get teachers to teach the low end students then....?

IMO, we need to bring back tracking, vocational school, and school choice FOR the school. Not make the schools want to retain the dirtballs because of the money they get.

I agree with tracking and vocational schools. Probably 50% of the students in American public schools are not academically inclined and have no desire to attend academic programs in colleges and universities. Of course they are unhappy, don't perform well, and see no value in what they are studying.

There also needs to be some kind of alternative for those who do not value an education....ditch digging, working the fields...something hard and strenuous until they realize the value of their education. Get them away from the kids who want to learn.

 

[JakeStarkey]

In our school district, parents had to be actively involved and evaluated if their students were in extra curricular activities including sports. The low end students worked hard to be included in activities.

In our school district, if a child would not stop an assault the teacher was authorized to pull him or her off by the hair, and if the child resisted, the teacher was authorized used the minimal force necessary to ensure safety in the school place.

The one family that sued was counter sued by the district.

Very little discipline problems in that district and an excellent GPA overall.

 

[Disir]

You never did say what it is you teach.

 

[Disir]

Also. What are you doing about continuing education?

 

[Esmeralda]

^^^If you are referring to the OP, he is one person, one teacher. Why are you asking him such questions? He has no more power than the rest of us to make changes to the school system or do anything about continuing education (which means education after high school).

 

[Disir]

What's wrong with the questions, Esmeralda? The only reasons not to answer the questions is if he isn't a teacher. If he's a teacher then he understands precisely what I mean about continuing education.

 

[Esmeralda]

What's wrong with the questions, Esmeralda? The only reasons not to answer the questions is if he isn't a teacher. If he's a teacher then he understands precisely what I mean about continuing education.

What you mean by continuing education:? Continuing education by definition means education after high school. Do you have your own private definition? And what do you expect him to do anyway? He is only one person, one teacher: he has no particular power to do anything. As well, what subject he teaches is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Disir]

It's not a private definition. This is what educators have to do. It's called continuing education and they have to pay for it.