Teachers Are Not Underpaid

[editec]

So they're being fairly paid then.

My point exactly. In fact the article spells out that teachers wouldn't come anywhere near their salaries in the private sector yet they all seem to think (Groupthink)they are underpaid

I don't really that most teachers really do think they are underpaid.

I think many of them might think that they are overworked, though.

Overworked. That's funny

10 weeks off in the summer
Winter break
Spring break
All holidays during the school year
Teacher "Development Days"

Yeah getting 14 or 15 weeks off a year is really being overworked.

Ever teach fill time, skull?

I have.

Its much harder to do well than you think it is.

I couldn't believe how much easier working in the private sector as a consultant was compared to carrying a full teaching load. Paid a lot better, too.

Admittedly I missed those summers off, but as I usually had to work in the summers anyway, so it wasn't like I missed them much.

 

[Sunshine]

Biggs and Richwine: Public School Teachers Aren't Underpaid - WSJ.com

A common story line in American education policy is that public school teachers are underpaid—"desperately underpaid," according to Education Secretary Arne Duncan in a recent speech. As former first lady Laura Bush put it: "Salaries are too low. We all know that. We need to figure out a way to pay teachers more."

Good teachers are crucial to a strong economy and a healthy civil society, and they should be paid at a level commensurate with their skills. But the evidence shows that public school teachers' total compensation amounts to roughly $1.50 for every $1 that their skills could garner in a private sector job.

While salaries are about even, fringe benefits push teacher compensation well ahead of comparable employees in the private economy. The trouble is that many of these benefits are hidden, meaning that lawmakers, taxpayers and even teachers themselves are sometimes unaware of them

Properly counted, a typical public school teacher with a salary of $51,000 would receive another $51,480 in present or future fringe benefits. A worker in private business with the same salary would receive around $22,185 in fringe benefits.

In short, combining salaries, fringe benefits and job security, we have calculated that public school teachers receive around 52% more in average compensation than they could earn in the private sector.

Or in other words: Stop your whining about teachers' salaries

You are right, and in this area they make more than most of the general population and they flaunt their ability to buy things like designer clothes, expensive cares, and go on fancy vacations. It is rather sad to watch.

 

[rdean]

Anyone who had to deal the the children of right wing Republicans is underpaid.

 

[Unkotare]

Anyone who had to deal the the children of right wing Republicans is underpaid.

Nice try to shoehorn your pathetic partisan BS in where it doesn't belong, attention whore.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Biggs and Richwine: Public School Teachers Aren't Underpaid - WSJ.com

A common story line in American education policy is that public school teachers are underpaid—"desperately underpaid," according to Education Secretary Arne Duncan in a recent speech. As former first lady Laura Bush put it: "Salaries are too low. We all know that. We need to figure out a way to pay teachers more."

Good teachers are crucial to a strong economy and a healthy civil society, and they should be paid at a level commensurate with their skills. But the evidence shows that public school teachers' total compensation amounts to roughly $1.50 for every $1 that their skills could garner in a private sector job.

In short, combining salaries, fringe benefits and job security, we have calculated that public school teachers receive around 52% more in average compensation than they could earn in the private sector.

Or in other words: Stop your whining about teachers' salaries

You are right, and in this area they make more than most of the general population and they flaunt their ability to buy things like designer clothes, expensive cares, and go on fancy vacations. It is rather sad to watch.

I assure you, you have no idea what you are talking about. My mother is a school teacher. She drives a 2002 Crown Vic. She buys her clothes from WalMart and Lane Bryant. She takes one vacation a year to New Jersey to visit relatives. Her colleagues drive similarly priced cars and live in a comparable manner. She doesn't consider herself underpaid, but she isn't living the life of luxury like you seem to think.

 

[Sunshine]

Biggs and Richwine: Public School Teachers Aren't Underpaid - WSJ.com









Or in other words: Stop your whining about teachers' salaries

You are right, and in this area they make more than most of the general population and they flaunt their ability to buy things like designer clothes, expensive cares, and go on fancy vacations. It is rather sad to watch.

I assure you, you have no idea what you are talking about. My mother is a school teacher. She drives a 2002 Crown Vic. She buys her clothes from WalMart and Lane Bryant. She takes one vacation a year to New Jersey to visit relatives. Her colleagues drive similarly priced cars and live in a comparable manner. She doesn't consider herself underpaid, but she isn't living the life of luxury like you seem to think.

Next you will tell me your mother wears combat boots!

 

[RadiomanATL]

You are right, and in this area they make more than most of the general population and they flaunt their ability to buy things like designer clothes, expensive cares, and go on fancy vacations. It is rather sad to watch.

I assure you, you have no idea what you are talking about. My mother is a school teacher. She drives a 2002 Crown Vic. She buys her clothes from WalMart and Lane Bryant. She takes one vacation a year to New Jersey to visit relatives. Her colleagues drive similarly priced cars and live in a comparable manner. She doesn't consider herself underpaid, but she isn't living the life of luxury like you seem to think.

Next you will tell me your mother wears combat boots!

Non sequiter.

 

[Bfgrn]

Wow, so you are saying US public education is #2 in the world?

I think it is somewhere in the 30s, like 34th or something like that.

The post to which I was responding seemed to suggest only Finland is ahead.

You misread the post.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't really that most teachers really do think they are underpaid.

I think many of them might think that they are overworked, though.

Overworked. That's funny

10 weeks off in the summer
Winter break
Spring break
All holidays during the school year
Teacher "Development Days"

Yeah getting 14 or 15 weeks off a year is really being overworked.

Ever teach fill time, skull?

I have.

Its much harder to do well than you think it is.

I couldn't believe how much easier working in the private sector as a consultant was compared to carrying a full teaching load. Paid a lot better, too.

Admittedly I missed those summers off, but as I usually had to work in the summers anyway, so it wasn't like I missed them much.

Working hard and being overworked are two completely different things.

 

[Unkotare]

I think it is somewhere in the 30s, like 34th or something like that.

The post to which I was responding seemed to suggest only Finland is ahead.

You misread the post.

NO, you misrepresented the truth.

 

[Bfgrn]

The post to which I was responding seemed to suggest only Finland is ahead.

You misread the post.

NO, you misrepresented the truth.

Are you always prone to spitting out empty-headed axioms?

You just can't accept the truth...

Excerpt from embedded article:

Leaders in Finland attribute the gains to their intensive investments in teacher education—all teachers receive three years of high-quality graduate level preparation completely at state expense—plus a major overhaul of the curriculum and assessment system designed to ensure access to a “thinking curriculum” for all students. A recent analysis of the Finnish system summarized its core principles as follows:

Resources for those who need them most.
High standards and supports for special needs.
Qualified teachers.
Evaluation of education.
Balancing decentralization and centralization. (Laukkanen, 2008, p. 319)

The process of change has been almost the reverse of policies in the United States. Over the past 40 years, Finland has shifted from a highly centralized system emphasizing external testing to a more localized system in which highly trained teachers design curriculum around the very lean national standards. This new system is implemented through equitable funding and extensive preparation for all teachers. The logic of the system is that investments in the capacity of local teachers and schools to meet the needs of all students, coupled with thoughtful guidance about goals, can unleash the benefits of local creativity in the cause of common, equitable outcomes.

Meanwhile, the United States has been imposing more external testing—often exacerbating differential access to curriculum—while creating more inequitable conditions in local schools. Resources for children and schools, in the form of both overall funding and the presence of trained, experienced teachers, have become more disparate in many states, thus undermining the capacity of schools to meet the outcomes that are ostensibly sought. Sahlberg notes that Finland has taken a very different path. He observes:
"The Finns have worked systematically over 35 years to make sure that competent professionals who can craft the best learning conditions for all students are in all schools, rather than thinking that standardized instruction and related testing can be brought in at the last minute to improve student learning and turn around failing schools." (Sahlberg, 2009, p. 22)

Sahlberg identifies a set of global reforms, undertaken especially in the Anglo-Saxon countries, that Finland has not adopted, including standardization of curriculum enforced by frequent external tests; narrowing of the curriculum to basic skills in reading and mathematics; reduced use of innovative teaching strategies; adoption of educational ideas from external sources, rather than development of local internal capacity for innovation and problem-solving; and adoption of high-stakes accountability policies, featuring rewards and sanctions for students, teachers, and schools. By contrast, he suggests:

"Finnish education policies are a result of four decades of systematic, mostly intentional, development that has created a culture of diversity, trust, and respect within Finnish society in general, and within its education system in particular.. Education sector development has been grounded on equal opportunities for all, equitable distribution of resources rather than competition, intensive early interventions for prevention, and building gradual trust among education practitioners, especially teachers." (Sahberg, p. 10)

Equity in opportunity to learn is supported in many ways in addition to basic funding.

Finnish schools are generally small (fewer than 300 pupils) with relatively small class sizes (in the 20s), and are uniformly well equipped. The notion of caring for students educationally and personally is a central principle in the schools. All students receive a free meal daily, as well as free health care, transportation, learning materials, and counseling in their schools, so that the foundations for learning are in place. Beyond that, access to quality curriculum and teachers has become a central aspect of Finnish educational policy.

 

[Unkotare]

Are you STILL missing the point? Talk about a failure of the educational system...

 

[Bfgrn]

Are you STILL missing the point? Talk about a failure of the educational system...

Education is a life long venture for some. Maybe you already know everything. If you are not interested in how and why Finland's education is superior to ours, that is your prerogative. Instead, continue to recite dogma.

 

[Sarah G]

No, not if this was 1965.

 

[Unkotare]

Are you STILL missing the point? Talk about a failure of the educational system...

Education is a life long venture for some. Maybe you already know everything. If you are not interested in how and why Finland's education is superior to ours, that is your prerogative. Instead, continue to recite dogma.

What dogma have I recited, fool? You're one of those idiots who's all mouth and no ears, aren't you?

 

[Bfgrn]

Are you STILL missing the point? Talk about a failure of the educational system...

Education is a life long venture for some. Maybe you already know everything. If you are not interested in how and why Finland's education is superior to ours, that is your prerogative. Instead, continue to recite dogma.

What dogma have I recited, fool? You're one of those idiots who's all mouth and no ears, aren't you?

I'm listening, but here's the problem...you haven't SAID anything of substance. You totally misread the article I posted. You fabricated something that wasn't even mentioned in the article. THAT is not sanction to question my intelligence.

 

[Unkotare]

I thought you said I was reciting dogma. What dogma?

 

[Bfgrn]

I thought you said I was reciting dogma. What dogma?

Bull-fucking-shit. The countries behind which we lag in educational acheivement are very, very big on test results.

Dogma

 

[Unkotare]

I thought you said I was reciting dogma. What dogma?

Bull-fucking-shit. The countries behind which we lag in educational acheivement are very, very big on test results.

Dogma

Do you have a list of all the countries behind which we lag in educational achievement, professor?

 

[Bfgrn]

I thought you said I was reciting dogma. What dogma?

Bull-fucking-shit. The countries behind which we lag in educational acheivement are very, very big on test results.

Dogma

Do you have a list of all the countries behind which we lag in educational achievement, professor?

Do you need me to snap a bib on you too?