Teachers Are Not Underpaid

[Skull Pilot]

Biggs and Richwine: Public School Teachers Aren't Underpaid - WSJ.com

A common story line in American education policy is that public school teachers are underpaid—"desperately underpaid," according to Education Secretary Arne Duncan in a recent speech. As former first lady Laura Bush put it: "Salaries are too low. We all know that. We need to figure out a way to pay teachers more."

Good teachers are crucial to a strong economy and a healthy civil society, and they should be paid at a level commensurate with their skills. But the evidence shows that public school teachers' total compensation amounts to roughly $1.50 for every $1 that their skills could garner in a private sector job.

While salaries are about even, fringe benefits push teacher compensation well ahead of comparable employees in the private economy. The trouble is that many of these benefits are hidden, meaning that lawmakers, taxpayers and even teachers themselves are sometimes unaware of them

Properly counted, a typical public school teacher with a salary of $51,000 would receive another $51,480 in present or future fringe benefits. A worker in private business with the same salary would receive around $22,185 in fringe benefits.

In short, combining salaries, fringe benefits and job security, we have calculated that public school teachers receive around 52% more in average compensation than they could earn in the private sector.

Or in other words: Stop your whining about teachers' salaries

 

[Unkotare]

That misses a lot of points.

 

[editec]

Yeah I agree.

Most public school teachers aren't underpaid.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yeah I agree.

Most public school teachers aren't underpaid.

So they're being fairly paid then.

My point exactly. In fact the article spells out that teachers wouldn't come anywhere near their salaries in the private sector yet they all seem to think (Groupthink)they are underpaid

 

[Unkotare]

Did you notice how you used the words "private sector" there? Have you given any consideration to what those words mean?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Did you notice how you used the words "private sector" there? Have you given any consideration to what those words mean?

he part of the economy that is not state controlled, and is run by individuals and companies for profit. The private sector encompasses all for-profit businesses that are not owned or operated by the government. Companies and corporations that are government run are part of what is known as the public sector, while charities and other nonprofit organizations are part of the voluntary sector.

Read more: Private Sector Definition

 

[editec]

Yeah I agree.

Most public school teachers aren't underpaid.

So they're being fairly paid then.

My point exactly. In fact the article spells out that teachers wouldn't come anywhere near their salaries in the private sector yet they all seem to think (Groupthink)they are underpaid

I don't really that most teachers really do think they are underpaid.

I think many of them might think that they are overworked, though.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yeah I agree.

Most public school teachers aren't underpaid.

So they're being fairly paid then.

My point exactly. In fact the article spells out that teachers wouldn't come anywhere near their salaries in the private sector yet they all seem to think (Groupthink)they are underpaid

I don't really that most teachers really do think they are underpaid.

I think many of them might think that they are overworked, though.

Overworked. That's funny

10 weeks off in the summer
Winter break
Spring break
All holidays during the school year
Teacher "Development Days"

Yeah getting 14 or 15 weeks off a year is really being overworked.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yeah I agree.

Most public school teachers aren't underpaid.

So they're being fairly paid then.

My point exactly. In fact the article spells out that teachers wouldn't come anywhere near their salaries in the private sector yet they all seem to think (Groupthink)they are underpaid

I don't really that most teachers really do think they are underpaid.

I think many of them might think that they are overworked, though.

A teacher's job doesn't end when the school bell rings. In many ways, their job has just begun. Besides grading papers, they must keep up their lesson plans and other obligations and responsibilities that the job entails.

Teachers are not overpaid. Especially when you factor in the responsibility they bear, the future of our nation. I don't know a single teacher who chose that field to get rich. If that was their goals, they would have pursued another profession.

Right wing regressive turds always invite the fate of Robert Frost's hired man, the fate of having "nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope."

"Teachers are givers in a world dominated by takers, and they're also sharers. This collaborative instinct makes our profession unlike any other."
Barbara Keshishian

Education is the cheap defense of nations.
Edmund Burke

 

[Unkotare]

If there were no such thing as 'public school,' and if the consequences of a poor education were felt as immediately as poor legal or medical assistance, teachers would be driving around in golden chariots (and most people teaching today would not qualify for the job).

 

[Bfgrn]

If there were no such thing as 'public school,' and if the consequences of a poor education were felt as immediately as poor legal or medical assistance, teachers would be driving around in golden chariots (and most people teaching today would not qualify for the job).

That is a pretty bold baseless statement. Conservatives have angst over liberals dominating academia. Well, America is the land of opportunity...so conservatives should feel free to jump in.

 

[Unkotare]

There's another indicator of why teachers make less than their value to society and why incompetence, fraud, and intolerance have enervated such an important service.

 

[Bfgrn]

There's another indicator of why teachers make less than their value to society and why incompetence, fraud, and intolerance have enervated such an important service.

Cynical. I believe our education system suffers from too much 'test results' orientation and not enough problem solving and teaching deeper understanding of subjects.

 

[Unkotare]

Bull-fucking-shit. The countries behind which we lag in educational acheivement are very, very big on test results.

 

[Bfgrn]

Bull-fucking-shit. The countries behind which we lag in educational acheivement are very, very big on test results.

How Finland Reached the Top of the Educational Rankings

Here’s how:

* They got rid of the mandated standardized testing that used to tie teachers’ hands.

* They provide social supports for students including a free daily meal and free health care.

* They upgraded the teaching profession. Teachers now take a three-year graduate school preparation program, free and with a stipend for living expenses. In Finland, you don’t go into debt to become a teacher.

* The stress on top-quality teaching continues after teachers walk into their schools. Teachers spend nearly half of their time in school in high-level professional development, collaborative planning, and working with parents.

These changes have attracted more people to the teaching profession — so many that only 15 percent of applicants are accepted.

The Finns trust their teachers, Darling-Hammond reports. They used to have prescriptive curriculum guides running over 700 pages. Now the national math curriculum is under 10 pages.

With the support of the knowledge-based business community (think Nokia), Finnish schools focus on 21st century skills like creative problem-solving, not test prep.

How Finland Reached the Top of the Educational Rankings : NEA Today

 

[Unkotare]

Wow, so you are saying US public education is #2 in the world?

 

[FurthurBB]

Wow, so you are saying US public education is #2 in the world?

I think it is somewhere in the 30s, like 34th or something like that.

 

[Unkotare]

Wow, so you are saying US public education is #2 in the world?

I think it is somewhere in the 30s, like 34th or something like that.

The post to which I was responding seemed to suggest only Finland is ahead.

 

[madasheck]

For the life of me, I don't believe how anyone can whine about the salaries teachers get. Absurd.

 

[old navy]

One of the things that keeps me from being a full blooded RWer is that I believe in public education and feel that we are doing a good job.

The starting salary for a new teacher in Fairfax County Virginia is in the low 40 thousands. Now that is big money in Redwine, Georgia but Fairfax is one of the wealthiest areas in the US with a cost of living to go with it. New teachers need to be married, have a room mate or two, or work a second job including through the summer in order to get by. Also, teachers have to pay into their benefits in Fairfax County. Retirement, medical and dental, life insurance: none are free.

The subject of US student performance compared to the rest of the world being mentioned in a salary thread is not surprising. As I said, I believe that US schools are doing a good job overall. The univerisities turn down very qualified students every year because they don't have room. Part of that is due to the down economy and high unemployment rate, but a big reason is that there are a lot of smart kids out there. The US test scores straight up compared to other countries is mis-leading. Some countries have a homogonized population that trend more favorably toward higher scores. Some countries manipulate their scores to make them appear higher.

I proctored the PSAT a few days ago. I teach in the most diverse school in my district. Most of my kids are ESOL and many have IEPs. The test was written in English. The only seperation of their answer sheets I had to do was by grade. They were all sent in as one school. If the test had been written in their native language or an interpreter was with them, they would be able to score higher.

Also, for anyone who thinks that they can improve the state of education in the United States and finds the salary acceptable, come on in and spend a few hours locked up with other people's teenagers.