Tax Policy Center delivers haymaker to 9 - 9 - 9

[DiamondDave]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

While I agree with what you said, the point of the OP is not if people should pay more or less in taxes, it's that Cain lied and said 100% of people would see a tax cut, then he flip flopped, then he called people liars for proving his formula wrong.

But Cain made a shit load of money selling books...

I don't really care what he said... I am not one of his supporters.... and as stated, I do not support the way his 9-9-9 plan is set up

 

[AVG-JOE]

You're employer may not give you a raise but your pay check will go up. It's not like congress would be able to add a sales tax without eliminating some income taxes.

If you pay at the 36% tax rate, your take-home pay will go up significantly

If you pay at the 10% rate your take-home pay will go down because of the elimination of deductions

Regardless, adding a 9% tax is inflationary

It's about time those that pay zero income tax and receive refundable tax credits at our expense start paying their own way.

That right there is a great reason to have a flat tax on income in excess of some minimum for all, coupled with a modest consumption tax of some sort.

A flat tax of 15% on income in excess of $25,000 plus a modest consumption tax of like 2% or 3% would be fair and allow ALL Americans who earn more than $25,000 or who buy something to proudly call themselves "Taxpayers".

The absolute worst part of our current tax code is the tax credit. Doling out welfare to low income folks and corporations in the form of tax credits sucks.

 

[DiamondDave]

I personally am not in support of any raised floor.... it opens the door for some again not to pay income tax... and it brings us right back to an effective progressive rate, which is what is wrong in the first place... one person paying 0%, one person paying 1%, one person paying 8%, one person paying 14.9% on their total incomes.... it is yet another masked system of unequal treatment... and yet another way to play class warfare...

Everyone, and I do mean everyone, should have an equal % stake in the game.... maybe, just maybe, then with everyone having a stake in the game, more people will look more carefully and critically on how much the government is spending and doing... those without a stake in the game now could not really give a rat's ass about whether the government spends trillions more than it should, for it is not anything coming from their contribution

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you pay at the 36% tax rate, your take-home pay will go up significantly

If you pay at the 10% rate your take-home pay will go down because of the elimination of deductions

Regardless, adding a 9% tax is inflationary

It's about time those that pay zero income tax and receive refundable tax credits at our expense start paying their own way.

Then the GOP should run on that. Run on the position that the big problem in this country is that the Poor are undertaxed.

And while they're committing political suicide running on that platform, they shouldn't forget to remind us that it was GOP tax policy in the first place that lowered taxes on low income Americans to the point where they are.

I don't give a shit what platform the repugnant-cans run on as I am not a member of the GOP.

Since when does being an American mean we expect something for nothing? Why is it those who pay the least in taxes demand the most?

When everyone starts taking responsibility and paying their own way, pulling their own weight and carrying their own water then and only then might we see prosperity again.

 

[Claudette]

Amen Brother.

 

[Care4all]

It's about time those that pay zero income tax and receive refundable tax credits at our expense start paying their own way.

Then the GOP should run on that. Run on the position that the big problem in this country is that the Poor are undertaxed.

And while they're committing political suicide running on that platform, they shouldn't forget to remind us that it was GOP tax policy in the first place that lowered taxes on low income Americans to the point where they are.

I don't give a shit what platform the repugnant-cans run on as I am not a member of the GOP.

Since when does being an American mean we expect something for nothing? Why is it those who pay the least in taxes demand the most?

When everyone starts taking responsibility and paying their own way, pulling their own weight and carrying their own water then and only then might we see prosperity again.

9% of that 47% gets back more than they pay in....the rest just have enough deductions to bring them down to owing nothing, but they DO NOT get any of your precious tax monies skull.

and we do not have any children either, and have never been given an extra deduction for them, or the child tax credit or the EIC....but that's life.

so who you are pissed at, are the 9% that get more than they paid in, right? the poorest of the poor?

Or are you pissed at the 38% that had enough deductions to bring them down to zero in what they owe the fed?

and if the above is the case, why should you be allowed those same deductions that bring what you owe in taxes down if you are not willing to give those same deductions allowed for YOU to every one else??

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A nine percent sales tax automatically raises inflation 9%. You now have 9% less spending power than you had before Cain

Is your employer going to give you a 9% raise to make up for it?

That's an interesting definition of inflation you've got there.
Not sure it's correct though.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then the GOP should run on that. Run on the position that the big problem in this country is that the Poor are undertaxed.

And while they're committing political suicide running on that platform, they shouldn't forget to remind us that it was GOP tax policy in the first place that lowered taxes on low income Americans to the point where they are.

I don't give a shit what platform the repugnant-cans run on as I am not a member of the GOP.

Since when does being an American mean we expect something for nothing? Why is it those who pay the least in taxes demand the most?

When everyone starts taking responsibility and paying their own way, pulling their own weight and carrying their own water then and only then might we see prosperity again.

9% of that 47% gets back more than they pay in....the rest just have enough deductions to bring them down to owing nothing, but they DO NOT get any of your precious tax monies skull.

and we do not have any children either, and have never been given an extra deduction for them, or the child tax credit or the EIC....but that's life.

so who you are pissed at, are the 9% that get more than they paid in, right? the poorest of the poor?

Or are you pissed at the 38% that had enough deductions to bring them down to zero in what they owe the fed?

and if the above is the case, why should you be allowed those same deductions that bring what you owe in taxes down if you are not willing to give those same deductions allowed for YOU to every one else??

Put it this way

No one should have a zero or less than zero tax bill at the end of the year.

And if people are paying no taxes or getting more than they paid in of course they are being subsidized by my tax money.

Money that could be going to secure my and my wife's future is being used to pay the way for someone else.

 

[Care4all]

I don't give a shit what platform the repugnant-cans run on as I am not a member of the GOP.

Since when does being an American mean we expect something for nothing? Why is it those who pay the least in taxes demand the most?

When everyone starts taking responsibility and paying their own way, pulling their own weight and carrying their own water then and only then might we see prosperity again.

9% of that 47% gets back more than they pay in....the rest just have enough deductions to bring them down to owing nothing, but they DO NOT get any of your precious tax monies skull.

and we do not have any children either, and have never been given an extra deduction for them, or the child tax credit or the EIC....but that's life.

so who you are pissed at, are the 9% that get more than they paid in, right? the poorest of the poor?

Or are you pissed at the 38% that had enough deductions to bring them down to zero in what they owe the fed?

and if the above is the case, why should you be allowed those same deductions that bring what you owe in taxes down if you are not willing to give those same deductions allowed for YOU to every one else??

Put it this way

No one should have a zero or less than zero tax bill at the end of the year.

And if people are paying no taxes or getting more than they paid in of course they are being subsidized by my tax money.

Money that could be going to secure my and my wife's future is being used to pay the way for someone else.

Every one pays taxes, no one, not one single person in this country, gets away with paying no gvt taxes out of their money come year end....

and THAT'S A FACT.

there are so many gvt taxes and fees at the state and federal and the local level....no one is missed....even visitors here are not missed.

your taxes are reduced greatly due to the deductions you take...you even bragged about it at tax time....and those in the 38% of not owing taxes took the same deductions you were allowed....if you came to a year where you had a bad year or many more deductions and you got your own tax bill down to owing zero....you would take it and not run and say, here here here, let me write you a check for 10 grand to cover the wife and me..... and YOU KNOW IT!

 

[auditor0007]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Since you are one of those always complaining about those who pay no federal income taxes, why is it that you never complain about the unfairness of state taxes where lower income earners are taxed at substantially higher rates than the wealthy? I'm assuming that you would support a change in most state taxing structures also, so that the higher income earners would pay more and lower income earners would pay less. There is no reason higher income earners should pay so much less as a percentage of income than lower income earners. Would you not agree?

Ummm.. have no not hear be preaching for the tops of the hills about nothing else but EQUAL RATES ON TAXES AT ALL LEVELS AND WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS???

There is NO reason anyone should pay any different rate on every dollar earned... PERIOD... whether it be state tax, fed tax, local tax or whatever..... much like a sales tax does not discriminate whether you spend $6 or $60000

But sales taxes do discriminate, as do sin taxes. The more you spend, the more you are taxed, and the fact is that those with the least spend the most as a percentage of their income. So sales taxes of any kind are extremely regressive.

 

[DiamondDave]

Since you are one of those always complaining about those who pay no federal income taxes, why is it that you never complain about the unfairness of state taxes where lower income earners are taxed at substantially higher rates than the wealthy? I'm assuming that you would support a change in most state taxing structures also, so that the higher income earners would pay more and lower income earners would pay less. There is no reason higher income earners should pay so much less as a percentage of income than lower income earners. Would you not agree?

Ummm.. have no not hear be preaching for the tops of the hills about nothing else but EQUAL RATES ON TAXES AT ALL LEVELS AND WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS???

There is NO reason anyone should pay any different rate on every dollar earned... PERIOD... whether it be state tax, fed tax, local tax or whatever..... much like a sales tax does not discriminate whether you spend $6 or $60000

But sales taxes do discriminate, as do sin taxes. The more you spend, the more you are taxed, and the fact is that those with the least spend the most as a percentage of their income. So sales taxes of any kind are extremely regressive.

No... they do not... the treatment is exactly the same... whether you buy a $6 shirt at Walmart or a $60000 car at the dealership... every single dollar spent is treated exactly the same... whether you are a hairdresser making 30K or a hair salon owner making 200K...

Nobody is forcing you to spend any particular amount... if you wish to spend on food rather than growing veggies in your back yard, is up to you... whether you wish to spend it on ground beef or filet mignon is up to you.... but each and every dollar spent is treated exactly the same, and each and every dollar not spent is treated exactly the same... as justice is blind, so should taxation be

 

[Skull Pilot]

9% of that 47% gets back more than they pay in....the rest just have enough deductions to bring them down to owing nothing, but they DO NOT get any of your precious tax monies skull.

and we do not have any children either, and have never been given an extra deduction for them, or the child tax credit or the EIC....but that's life.

so who you are pissed at, are the 9% that get more than they paid in, right? the poorest of the poor?

Or are you pissed at the 38% that had enough deductions to bring them down to zero in what they owe the fed?

and if the above is the case, why should you be allowed those same deductions that bring what you owe in taxes down if you are not willing to give those same deductions allowed for YOU to every one else??

Put it this way

No one should have a zero or less than zero tax bill at the end of the year.

And if people are paying no taxes or getting more than they paid in of course they are being subsidized by my tax money.

Money that could be going to secure my and my wife's future is being used to pay the way for someone else.

Every one pays taxes, no one, not one single person in this country, gets away with paying no gvt taxes out of their money come year end....

and THAT'S A FACT.

there are so many gvt taxes and fees at the state and federal and the local level....no one is missed....even visitors here are not missed.

your taxes are reduced greatly due to the deductions you take...you even bragged about it at tax time....and those in the 38% of not owing taxes took the same deductions you were allowed....if you came to a year where you had a bad year or many more deductions and you got your own tax bill down to owing zero....you would take it and not run and say, here here here, let me write you a check for 10 grand to cover the wife and me..... and YOU KNOW IT!

FEDERAL INCOME TAXES

Isn't that implied and shouldn't you realize that because you yourself quoted the number of people who pay no income taxes since I was responding to your statement about income taxes ?

For fuck's sake stop fishing for fucking red herrings.

And what deductions did i brag about. The only deduction I get is my personal deduction. I lost my ability to save via an IRA so I lost a deduction.

 

[MiddleClass]

Still love the Bachmann comment about turning 999 upside down to get the devils in the details. Love or Hate her, she is always a barrel of laughs;-) ha lol

 

[Care4all]

Put it this way

No one should have a zero or less than zero tax bill at the end of the year.

And if people are paying no taxes or getting more than they paid in of course they are being subsidized by my tax money.

Money that could be going to secure my and my wife's future is being used to pay the way for someone else.

Every one pays taxes, no one, not one single person in this country, gets away with paying no gvt taxes out of their money come year end....

and THAT'S A FACT.

there are so many gvt taxes and fees at the state and federal and the local level....no one is missed....even visitors here are not missed.

your taxes are reduced greatly due to the deductions you take...you even bragged about it at tax time....and those in the 38% of not owing taxes took the same deductions you were allowed....if you came to a year where you had a bad year or many more deductions and you got your own tax bill down to owing zero....you would take it and not run and say, here here here, let me write you a check for 10 grand to cover the wife and me..... and YOU KNOW IT!

FEDERAL INCOME TAXES

Isn't that implied and shouldn't you realize that because you yourself quoted the number of people who pay no income taxes since I was responding to your statement about income taxes ?

For fuck's sake stop fishing for fucking red herrings.

And what deductions did i brag about. The only deduction I get is my personal deduction. I lost my ability to save via an IRA so I lost a deduction.

either way...you still get to take all of your federal income tax deductions to reduce your taxes owed, so the rest of the country should be able to as well....yet you complain about it.....

that just does not make any sense to me skull, none what so ever! and hypocritical to boot, again, in my humble opinion!

and do you think that every person should have to pay SS taxes on their entire income as those who make below 100 plus k do? Or is that somehow, different?

 

[AVG-JOE]

I personally am not in support of any raised floor.... it opens the door for some again not to pay income tax... and it brings us right back to an effective progressive rate, which is what is wrong in the first place... one person paying 0%, one person paying 1%, one person paying 8%, one person paying 14.9% on their total incomes.... it is yet another masked system of unequal treatment... and yet another way to play class warfare...

Everyone, and I do mean everyone, should have an equal % stake in the game.... maybe, just maybe, then with everyone having a stake in the game, more people will look more carefully and critically on how much the government is spending and doing... those without a stake in the game now could not really give a rat's ass about whether the government spends trillions more than it should, for it is not anything coming from their contribution

Why would it be unfair if everyone was able to earn exactly the same amount before the income tax kicked in?

 

[DiamondDave]

Every one pays taxes, no one, not one single person in this country, gets away with paying no gvt taxes out of their money come year end....

and THAT'S A FACT.

there are so many gvt taxes and fees at the state and federal and the local level....no one is missed....even visitors here are not missed.

your taxes are reduced greatly due to the deductions you take...you even bragged about it at tax time....and those in the 38% of not owing taxes took the same deductions you were allowed....if you came to a year where you had a bad year or many more deductions and you got your own tax bill down to owing zero....you would take it and not run and say, here here here, let me write you a check for 10 grand to cover the wife and me..... and YOU KNOW IT!

FEDERAL INCOME TAXES

Isn't that implied and shouldn't you realize that because you yourself quoted the number of people who pay no income taxes since I was responding to your statement about income taxes ?

For fuck's sake stop fishing for fucking red herrings.

And what deductions did i brag about. The only deduction I get is my personal deduction. I lost my ability to save via an IRA so I lost a deduction.

either way...you still get to take all of your federal income tax deductions to reduce your taxes owed, so the rest of the country should be able to as well....yet you complain about it.....

that just does not make any sense to me skull, none what so ever! and hypocritical to boot, again, in my humble opinion!

and do you think that every person should have to pay SS taxes on their entire income as those who make below 100 plus k do? Or is that somehow, different?

Hence why a lot of us support the flat tax with no exceptions, deductions, loopholes or anything else.. let alone the equal treatment factor, it would also allow the government to reduce the size and expenditure needed for the IRS

oh... and I would also agree with the SS 'confiscation' on all dollars earned... even though I would also support opting out of SS

 

[Jarhead]

I personally am not in support of any raised floor.... it opens the door for some again not to pay income tax... and it brings us right back to an effective progressive rate, which is what is wrong in the first place... one person paying 0%, one person paying 1%, one person paying 8%, one person paying 14.9% on their total incomes.... it is yet another masked system of unequal treatment... and yet another way to play class warfare...

Everyone, and I do mean everyone, should have an equal % stake in the game.... maybe, just maybe, then with everyone having a stake in the game, more people will look more carefully and critically on how much the government is spending and doing... those without a stake in the game now could not really give a rat's ass about whether the government spends trillions more than it should, for it is not anything coming from their contribution

Why would it be unfair if everyone was able to earn exactly the same amount before the income tax kicked in?

it wouldnt be unfair.

As a matter of fact. everyone IS able to earn exactly the same amount.
However, many dont opt to do what is necessary to earn the same amount as others.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Since you are one of those always complaining about those who pay no federal income taxes, why is it that you never complain about the unfairness of state taxes where lower income earners are taxed at substantially higher rates than the wealthy? I'm assuming that you would support a change in most state taxing structures also, so that the higher income earners would pay more and lower income earners would pay less. There is no reason higher income earners should pay so much less as a percentage of income than lower income earners. Would you not agree?

Ummm.. have no not hear be preaching for the tops of the hills about nothing else but EQUAL RATES ON TAXES AT ALL LEVELS AND WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS???

There is NO reason anyone should pay any different rate on every dollar earned... PERIOD... whether it be state tax, fed tax, local tax or whatever..... much like a sales tax does not discriminate whether you spend $6 or $60000

But sales taxes do discriminate, as do sin taxes. The more you spend, the more you are taxed, and the fact is that those with the least spend the most as a percentage of their income. So sales taxes of any kind are extremely regressive.

Sales taxes are regressive, income taxes (even a flat tax) are progressive....
That's why a blend of some sort is fair.

 

[Jarhead]

Every one pays taxes, no one, not one single person in this country, gets away with paying no gvt taxes out of their money come year end....

and THAT'S A FACT.

there are so many gvt taxes and fees at the state and federal and the local level....no one is missed....even visitors here are not missed.

your taxes are reduced greatly due to the deductions you take...you even bragged about it at tax time....and those in the 38% of not owing taxes took the same deductions you were allowed....if you came to a year where you had a bad year or many more deductions and you got your own tax bill down to owing zero....you would take it and not run and say, here here here, let me write you a check for 10 grand to cover the wife and me..... and YOU KNOW IT!

FEDERAL INCOME TAXES

Isn't that implied and shouldn't you realize that because you yourself quoted the number of people who pay no income taxes since I was responding to your statement about income taxes ?

For fuck's sake stop fishing for fucking red herrings.

And what deductions did i brag about. The only deduction I get is my personal deduction. I lost my ability to save via an IRA so I lost a deduction.

either way...you still get to take all of your federal income tax deductions to reduce your taxes owed, so the rest of the country should be able to as well....yet you complain about it.....

that just does not make any sense to me skull, none what so ever! and hypocritical to boot, again, in my humble opinion!

and do you think that every person should have to pay SS taxes on their entire income as those who make below 100 plus k do? Or is that somehow, different?

OK...spin aside....

No one is complaining that some dont pay federal income tax at all.

It all started when Mr. Obama started to use the line "all we are asking is for the more afluent to pay THEIR FAIR SHARE"

That line, in itself, prompted the response of "how can you say we are not paying our fair share, when there are people who pay no federal income taxes at all"

It was a complaint of the use of "fair share"...not a complaint about those that write off what they legally can and result in no fed taxes paid.

And such is a valid question. Truth is, fair share is inappropriate and only urges on class warfare.

What he should have said is...."right now, the less wealthy cant afford a taxc increase. However, the wealthier can and whereas we recognize the amount the wealthy put into our tax revenue, we have no choice but to turn to them and ask them to contribute more.

Now....the GOP may have argued it.....but we wouldnt be wasting out time discussing who doesnt pay any fed income tax at all.

Furthermore, saying it that way would have minimized the rift between the classes.

 

[DiamondDave]

I personally am not in support of any raised floor.... it opens the door for some again not to pay income tax... and it brings us right back to an effective progressive rate, which is what is wrong in the first place... one person paying 0%, one person paying 1%, one person paying 8%, one person paying 14.9% on their total incomes.... it is yet another masked system of unequal treatment... and yet another way to play class warfare...

Everyone, and I do mean everyone, should have an equal % stake in the game.... maybe, just maybe, then with everyone having a stake in the game, more people will look more carefully and critically on how much the government is spending and doing... those without a stake in the game now could not really give a rat's ass about whether the government spends trillions more than it should, for it is not anything coming from their contribution

Why would it be unfair if everyone was able to earn exactly the same amount before the income tax kicked in?

Say you set the arbitrary floor at 20K, for argument's sake... and you set the tax rate at 10% flat on everything above that...

Person A earns 18K, Person B earns 30K, Person C earns 100K, and person D earns 1MIL

Person A pays zero % federal income tax on their earnings
Person B pays 1K or 3.3%
Person C pays 8K or 8%
Person D pays 98K or 9.8%

You are right back to a progressive system with people paying different rates AGAIN.... not all dollars being treated the same... opening us up again for more class warfare rhetoric and not everyone with the same % stake in the game, and some even with no stake in the game...