Tax Policy Center delivers haymaker to 9 - 9 - 9

[Jarhead]

its very much like the irony of the party dispute...

The GOP wants equal laws for all people.....and they are the racists
The democratic party pushes legislation that caters to individual groups of people...and they are the ones who are for equality for all.

Its like.....bizzarro world.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[rightwinger]

Ummm.. have no not hear be preaching for the tops of the hills about nothing else but EQUAL RATES ON TAXES AT ALL LEVELS AND WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS???

There is NO reason anyone should pay any different rate on every dollar earned... PERIOD... whether it be state tax, fed tax, local tax or whatever..... much like a sales tax does not discriminate whether you spend $6 or $60000

The same tax rules apply equally to everyone

The US has had a progressive tax rate in place for 75 years with the majority of the industrialized world recognizing the merits of a progressive tax structure

The only ones who don't are conservatives and Russia

Progressive rates are a cop out to prevent you from recognizing unequal treatment... if Dollar #1 is not treated the same as dollar #50k and dollar #100MIL, it is INHERENTLY and BY DEFINITION unequal treatment by law (in this case the tax law) by government...

You continually preach the religion of unequal treatment... when it benefits you at the expense of others.. but will scream to the top of your lungs when you think you are being treated unequally, again when it benefits you... and that by definition, is being a hypocrite

All people are being treated equally....all dollars are not

 

[Skull Pilot]

The same tax rules apply equally to everyone

The US has had a progressive tax rate in place for 75 years with the majority of the industrialized world recognizing the merits of a progressive tax structure

The only ones who don't are conservatives and Russia

Progressive rates are a cop out to prevent you from recognizing unequal treatment... if Dollar #1 is not treated the same as dollar #50k and dollar #100MIL, it is INHERENTLY and BY DEFINITION unequal treatment by law (in this case the tax law) by government...

You continually preach the religion of unequal treatment... when it benefits you at the expense of others.. but will scream to the top of your lungs when you think you are being treated unequally, again when it benefits you... and that by definition, is being a hypocrite

All people are being treated equally....all dollars are not

So making some people pay more than others is treating everyone equally?

Should all prices be scaled according to income? If I make more than you should I pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc?

When others benefit at my expense I believe I do have a legitimate gripe.

 

[rightwinger]

Progressive rates are a cop out to prevent you from recognizing unequal treatment... if Dollar #1 is not treated the same as dollar #50k and dollar #100MIL, it is INHERENTLY and BY DEFINITION unequal treatment by law (in this case the tax law) by government...

You continually preach the religion of unequal treatment... when it benefits you at the expense of others.. but will scream to the top of your lungs when you think you are being treated unequally, again when it benefits you... and that by definition, is being a hypocrite

All people are being treated equally....all dollars are not

So making some people pay more than others is treating everyone equally?

Should all prices be scaled according to income? If I make more than you should I pay more for food, electricity, gas, etc?

When others benefit at my expense I believe I do have a legitimate gripe.

You are treated the same as a millionaire..

Your first $35,000 is taxed at the same rate as his
Your next $200,000 is taxed at the same rate as his
Your next $3 million is taxed at the same rate as his

Not my fault if you can't keep up

 

[AVG-JOE]

Whoa. See what some of us were trying to tell you?


Study: Cain Tax Plan Raises Taxes on 84 Percent


"Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan would raise taxes on 84 percent of U.S. households, according to an independent analysis released Tuesday, contradicting claims by the Republican presidential candidate that most Americans would see a tax cut.


The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent....

Households with the highest incomes, however, would get big tax cuts. Those making more than $1 million a year would see their taxes cut nearly in half, on average, according to the analysis...."

Read more: Study: Cain Tax Plan Raises Taxes On 84 Percent | Fox News

I saw this and this is damn good information. I still believe in a blend of consumption and income taxes... I hope the baby doesn't get tossed with the bath water. The numbers need to be crunched.

I'd also like to see experiments with ideas like EVERYone getting to earn their first $20,000 tax free. As long as the law affects everyone the same, it stays fair, right?

 

[Navy1960]

One of the key economists who helped presidential candidate Herman Cain draft his 9-9-9 tax plan is backing away from the most controversial component of it, warning that the criticism Cain endured at Tuesday night's Republican presidential debate shows his proposed 9 percent national sales tax might have to go.

"It was such a dart board," economist Stephen Moore said Wednesday of the proposal

Economist Who Helped Cain Craft 9-9-9 Plan Backs Away From Sales Tax | Fox News

Would seem to me dartboard means lets throw it on the wall and see what sticks. So if you want to supporta a tax plan that is basically thought out the same way as someone who slings a dart and hopes it hits the right place, then by all means be my guest. Personally I would prefer something a little more thought out.

 

[Stephanie]

Cains plan wasn't set in stone. Of course it needed to be worked on.

But one thing it did is get the conversations and ideas rolling on this.

More than the Lefts idea of FAIR taxing, just tax the shit out of the RICH.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Ummm.. have no not hear be preaching for the tops of the hills about nothing else but EQUAL RATES ON TAXES AT ALL LEVELS AND WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS???

There is NO reason anyone should pay any different rate on every dollar earned... PERIOD... whether it be state tax, fed tax, local tax or whatever..... much like a sales tax does not discriminate whether you spend $6 or $60000

The same tax rules apply equally to everyone

The US has had a progressive tax rate in place for 75 years with the majority of the industrialized world recognizing the merits of a progressive tax structure

The only ones who don't are conservatives and Russia

Progressive rates are a cop out to prevent you from recognizing unequal treatment... if Dollar #1 is not treated the same as dollar #50k and dollar #100MIL, it is INHERENTLY and BY DEFINITION unequal treatment by law (in this case the tax law) by government...

You continually preach the religion of unequal treatment... when it benefits you at the expense of others.. but will scream to the top of your lungs when you think you are being treated unequally, again when it benefits you... and that by definition, is being a hypocrite

Progressive income taxes are an invitation to those most able to start looking for ways to buy political favoritism, because they are inherently unfair to folks with large capital and resource streams to play the game of life with. I've had enough of that bullshit, thank you very much.

I agree with the progressives that special taxes on things like smokes, whiskey & weed should be considered because of the impact of those products on the general welfare of The Peeps, but the only fair way to fuck with an income tax is to give EVERYone the right to earn their first $20,000 or whatever tax free and just levy a flat tax on everyone doing well enough to boast better than the minimum.

 

[AVG-JOE]

its very much like the irony of the party dispute...

The GOP wants equal laws for all people.....and they are the racists
The democratic party pushes legislation that caters to individual groups of people...and they are the ones who are for equality for all.

Its like.....bizzarro world.

Actually our political bed has most republicans looking after the interests of the well-heeled and the democrats putting on a show of fighting for every interest group able to raise enough money and cash-flow to hire a lawyer, in addition to looking after the interests of the truly well-heeled.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. But...if you still have note determined, to your own satisfaction, that Herman Cains plan is an unworkable pile of shit......then you might just be a little out of touch.

It's not an unworkable pile of shit, it's a solution offered with at least a few things to like.
Simplicity for one; it was determined to be unfair and determined to whom it would be unfair to in what.... 3 months?

How long would it take to figure out how unfair and unfair towards who our current tax code is?

 

[DiamondDave]

The same tax rules apply equally to everyone

The US has had a progressive tax rate in place for 75 years with the majority of the industrialized world recognizing the merits of a progressive tax structure

The only ones who don't are conservatives and Russia

Progressive rates are a cop out to prevent you from recognizing unequal treatment... if Dollar #1 is not treated the same as dollar #50k and dollar #100MIL, it is INHERENTLY and BY DEFINITION unequal treatment by law (in this case the tax law) by government...

You continually preach the religion of unequal treatment... when it benefits you at the expense of others.. but will scream to the top of your lungs when you think you are being treated unequally, again when it benefits you... and that by definition, is being a hypocrite

All people are being treated equally....all dollars are not

All dollars being earned by the people are not.. out of a shell game... pandering for votes.. because equal treatment does not allow for dissension in the ranks... you know it, I know it... but you are so caught up in the game of "what can I get over on someone else", you will refuse to say it... progressive taxes by definition are unequal treatment... face it.. you class warfare monger

 

[rightwinger]

Progressive rates are a cop out to prevent you from recognizing unequal treatment... if Dollar #1 is not treated the same as dollar #50k and dollar #100MIL, it is INHERENTLY and BY DEFINITION unequal treatment by law (in this case the tax law) by government...

You continually preach the religion of unequal treatment... when it benefits you at the expense of others.. but will scream to the top of your lungs when you think you are being treated unequally, again when it benefits you... and that by definition, is being a hypocrite

All people are being treated equally....all dollars are not

All dollars being earned by the people are not.. out of a shell game... pandering for votes.. because equal treatment does not allow for dissension in the ranks... you know it, I know it... but you are so caught up in the game of "what can I get over on someone else", you will refuse to say it... progressive taxes by definition are unequal treatment... face it.. you class warfare monger

Progressive taxes acknowledge the need for less affluent people to spend a large percentage of their income on food, shelter, healthcare and transportation. High taxes on income needed for the necessities of life literally takes food out of peoples mouths

Most of the world realizes this.........Conservatives don't

 

[Sactowndog]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Exactly why I laugh at those that act like "look what I uncovered" ...

It is not rocket science to know that a flat tax would mean the wealthier will pay less than they do now and the less wealthy will pay more.

What I am curious about is the capital gains tax...are all cap gains going to be deemed as income and taxed at 9%?

If yes, then I just cant see how this 9-9-9 plan will be deficit neutral.

My understanding is Capital gains tax would be reduced to zero.

Of course no consideration wouild be given if those capital gains came from investing in the US or overseas. So basically it is a giveaway to the wealthy who get most of their income from capital gains...

Not a member of either party but don't see in an era of increasing globalization and income disparity dramatically decreasing taxes for those shifting jobs and investment overseas and dramtically increasing taxes on unemployed workers trying to scrape by is a winning strategy.

 

[DiamondDave]

All people are being treated equally....all dollars are not

All dollars being earned by the people are not.. out of a shell game... pandering for votes.. because equal treatment does not allow for dissension in the ranks... you know it, I know it... but you are so caught up in the game of "what can I get over on someone else", you will refuse to say it... progressive taxes by definition are unequal treatment... face it.. you class warfare monger

Progressive taxes acknowledge the need for less affluent people to spend a large percentage of their income on food, shelter, healthcare and transportation. High taxes on income needed for the necessities of life literally takes food out of peoples mouths

Most of the world realizes this.........Conservatives don't

No.. those who want something at the expense of others.. or others to pay for their services recognize what you preach... but people with any speck of smarts recognise you and your hypocrisy.. equal treatment when it benefits you, unequal treatment when it benefits you....

You cannot stand the freedom to succeed, when it comes coupled with the freedom to fail which goes hand in hand with it

 

[rightwinger]

All dollars being earned by the people are not.. out of a shell game... pandering for votes.. because equal treatment does not allow for dissension in the ranks... you know it, I know it... but you are so caught up in the game of "what can I get over on someone else", you will refuse to say it... progressive taxes by definition are unequal treatment... face it.. you class warfare monger

Progressive taxes acknowledge the need for less affluent people to spend a large percentage of their income on food, shelter, healthcare and transportation. High taxes on income needed for the necessities of life literally takes food out of peoples mouths

Most of the world realizes this.........Conservatives don't

No.. those who want something at the expense of others.. or others to pay for their services recognize what you preach... but people with any speck of smarts recognise you and your hypocrisy.. equal treatment when it benefits you, unequal treatment when it benefits you....

You cannot stand the freedom to succeed, when it comes coupled with the freedom to fail which goes hand in hand with it

All people are being treated equally

The initial dollars you make are looked at for critical life essentials and are not taxed at all. As you make more and more money the criticality to provide for essential goods and services is less, so you are taxed more

As you say.....once you have succeeded, you no longer need to spend on critical essentials and you are taxed at the highest rate

This is the way it works around the world

 

[DiamondDave]

Progressive taxes acknowledge the need for less affluent people to spend a large percentage of their income on food, shelter, healthcare and transportation. High taxes on income needed for the necessities of life literally takes food out of peoples mouths

Most of the world realizes this.........Conservatives don't

No.. those who want something at the expense of others.. or others to pay for their services recognize what you preach... but people with any speck of smarts recognise you and your hypocrisy.. equal treatment when it benefits you, unequal treatment when it benefits you....

You cannot stand the freedom to succeed, when it comes coupled with the freedom to fail which goes hand in hand with it

All people are being treated equally

The initial dollars you make are looked at for critical life essentials and are not taxed at all. As you make more and more money the criticality to provide for essential goods and services is less, so you are taxed more

As you say.....once you have succeeded, you no longer need to spend on critical essentials and you are taxed at the highest rate

This is the way it works around the world

No.. YOU and those like you who wish to have benefits at the expense of others want to preach that it is equal treatment... it is not equal treatment when the playing field is shifted.. sorry.. you can spout all the bullshit you want, it does not make it truth

 

[NYcarbineer]

Setting aside ALL arguments about the merits of the plan,

if you're Cain, and your opponent(s) are able to pin a tax increase for 80% of Americans from the bottom up on your tax plan,

how can you not be dead politically?

Won't really raise taxes on anyone....I'll just get rid of the shell game that makes those on the lower end of the earnings scale believe that they pay little to nothing.

Of course, if the sainted poooooooor are stuck with a huge tax bill, it'll hip them to the fact that there really isn't any free lunch....Can't have that happening, can we?

It can't pass. It can't even pass Grover Norquist.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Whoa. See what some of us were trying to tell you?


Study: Cain Tax Plan Raises Taxes on 84 Percent


"Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan would raise taxes on 84 percent of U.S. households, according to an independent analysis released Tuesday, contradicting claims by the Republican presidential candidate that most Americans would see a tax cut.


The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent....

Households with the highest incomes, however, would get big tax cuts. Those making more than $1 million a year would see their taxes cut nearly in half, on average, according to the analysis...."

Read more: Study: Cain Tax Plan Raises Taxes On 84 Percent | Fox News

SO, all that talk by OBAMA of ALL THE PEOPLE having some skin in the game, was just SMOKE he and you all were blowing up our asses.

So you're willing to let Cain raise YOUR taxes, granny?

 

[rightwinger]

No.. those who want something at the expense of others.. or others to pay for their services recognize what you preach... but people with any speck of smarts recognise you and your hypocrisy.. equal treatment when it benefits you, unequal treatment when it benefits you....

You cannot stand the freedom to succeed, when it comes coupled with the freedom to fail which goes hand in hand with it

All people are being treated equally

The initial dollars you make are looked at for critical life essentials and are not taxed at all. As you make more and more money the criticality to provide for essential goods and services is less, so you are taxed more

As you say.....once you have succeeded, you no longer need to spend on critical essentials and you are taxed at the highest rate

This is the way it works around the world

No.. YOU and those like you who wish to have benefits at the expense of others want to preach that it is equal treatment... it is not equal treatment when the playing field is shifted.. sorry.. you can spout all the bullshit you want, it does not make it truth

Rich people are allowed the same tax rate on the initial money they make as poor people. If poor folks make a million they pay thar same tax rate as rich folks

Everyone is treated the same......each dollar earned is not treated the same