Tax Policy Center delivers haymaker to 9 - 9 - 9

[DiamondDave]

I will never agree to eliminating welfare. Exactly how does a mother with 2 children feed her children on 10K a year?
Section 8 is an issue in itself becuase a flat tax would eliminate section 42 (LIHTC)....so who the heck knows what is going to happen in the rental housing market. I mean...how are we going to get developers to build in depressed areas?
Government healthcare? I say go back to what we had....ER with government assistance for those that can not afford other insurances

By working a second job... but gaining a roommate situation where they help each other out... by joining the military.... by approaching local charities... by giving the child up for adoption because they cannot take care of it.... by becoming an extreme couponer... by converting their entire front and back yard into a garden... by collecting cans and turning them into recycle centers for $$... by moving to an area where it don't cost shit to live... by moving back home with mom and dad.... the list goes on....

The problem is that it's just more and more handouts or breaks.. everywhere you look... and it maintains a group of people, reliant on govt, who will continually vote in ways to keep freebies coming at the expense of others...

Look.. I fully support giving to charities that help those in need... food banks, clothing drives, job training programs, etc.. all funded by charity.. I give a lot every year to various things... but I do not think anyone has it OWED to them by government, nor do I think anyone should be without a stake in the game... having no stake makes it easy to allow for more unchecked bullshit in government...

Bull shit, DiamodDave. That is the only appropriate answer to your rant.

Take a hike, ant wipe.

Because you don't want people to have to do the hard things??

There are plenty of ways to do things to make it, to survive, to provide... most just want the easier way out of the handout... not all solutions are pleasant, but there are ways to do it... sorry if it hurts your feelings

asswipe

 

[NYcarbineer]

It is not 'supported' because of people like you who want something at the expense of others... selective equal treatment because it benefits you...

I guess it is just as preposterous to then say that we should have differing prices for things or services depending on your income??? Differing sales tax rates depending on your income?? Why stop at just income tax?? Keep making those nasty earners provide more and more to you

I make 50 grand a year, I am single with no dependents and no exemptions/deductions to claim.

What advantages am I getting from the current system?

A lower rate than me... lower payment per dollar for the same exact services I receive too... the same product at a reduced cost at the expense of someone else

Bwaaaaa...so you don't even want a flat percent tax, you want everyone to pay the same dollar amount of taxes.

jeezus christ on a bicycle!

 

[DiamondDave]

I make 50 grand a year, I am single with no dependents and no exemptions/deductions to claim.

What advantages am I getting from the current system?

A lower rate than me... lower payment per dollar for the same exact services I receive too... the same product at a reduced cost at the expense of someone else

Bwaaaaa...so you don't even want a flat percent tax, you want everyone to pay the same dollar amount of taxes.

jeezus christ on a bicycle!

Nope... nice try... try a little reading comprehension... show where I ever said such a thing... I want a flat % tax where each dollar earned has a % that goes for the running of our country

 

[Skull Pilot]

Every one pays taxes, no one, not one single person in this country, gets away with paying no gvt taxes out of their money come year end....

and THAT'S A FACT.

there are so many gvt taxes and fees at the state and federal and the local level....no one is missed....even visitors here are not missed.

your taxes are reduced greatly due to the deductions you take...you even bragged about it at tax time....and those in the 38% of not owing taxes took the same deductions you were allowed....if you came to a year where you had a bad year or many more deductions and you got your own tax bill down to owing zero....you would take it and not run and say, here here here, let me write you a check for 10 grand to cover the wife and me..... and YOU KNOW IT!

FEDERAL INCOME TAXES

Isn't that implied and shouldn't you realize that because you yourself quoted the number of people who pay no income taxes since I was responding to your statement about income taxes ?

For fuck's sake stop fishing for fucking red herrings.

And what deductions did i brag about. The only deduction I get is my personal deduction. I lost my ability to save via an IRA so I lost a deduction.

either way...you still get to take all of your federal income tax deductions to reduce your taxes owed, so the rest of the country should be able to as well....yet you complain about it.....

that just does not make any sense to me skull, none what so ever! and hypocritical to boot, again, in my humble opinion!

and do you think that every person should have to pay SS taxes on their entire income as those who make below 100 plus k do? Or is that somehow, different?

I don't get deductions I get one personal deduction.

I have advocated for the dumping of all deductions along with a lower rate for years.

Why should I pay more in taxes than another with my exact same income simply because i do not have a gaggle of rug rats? It's a choice to have kids and those with kids use public services way more than I do hence they should pay a higher rate not a lower one.

You want fairness in the tax law then those who use government services most should pay the most.

And I think SS should be privatized. I've shown many times how a person with control of that 15% of their income could get better disability insurance AND retire with 10 times the income that current SS pays.

And how is it hypocritical to advocate for the exact same tax policy for all? It's you who want different rates and deductions for different people who are the hypocrites.

 

[Care4all]

FEDERAL INCOME TAXES

Isn't that implied and shouldn't you realize that because you yourself quoted the number of people who pay no income taxes since I was responding to your statement about income taxes ?

For fuck's sake stop fishing for fucking red herrings.

And what deductions did i brag about. The only deduction I get is my personal deduction. I lost my ability to save via an IRA so I lost a deduction.

either way...you still get to take all of your federal income tax deductions to reduce your taxes owed, so the rest of the country should be able to as well....yet you complain about it.....

that just does not make any sense to me skull, none what so ever! and hypocritical to boot, again, in my humble opinion!

and do you think that every person should have to pay SS taxes on their entire income as those who make below 100 plus k do? Or is that somehow, different?

I don't get deductions I get one personal deduction.

I have advocated for the dumping of all deductions along with a lower rate for years.

Why should I pay more in taxes than another with my exact same income simply because i do not have a gaggle of rug rats? It's a choice to have kids and those with kids use public services way more than I do hence they should pay a higher rate not a lower one.

You want fairness in the tax law then those who use government services most should pay the most.

And I think SS should be privatized. I've shown many times how a person with control of that 15% of their income could get better disability insurance AND retire with 10 times the income that current SS pays.

And how is it hypocritical to advocate for the exact same tax policy for all? It's you who want different rates and deductions for different people who are the hypocrites.

ok, maybe deductions is not the proper word, maybe business expenses is.....

why be so excited about what taxes you paid or didn't pay around tax time that you even started a thread on it, if memory serves, IF you only get the standard deduction and personal exemption you didn't mention....? your taxes should be the same each year if that were the case?

why did you tell us of all the things you could write off as a business owner? and the maneuverings you were doing to even owe less?

that was you, wasn't it?

so what was that all about?

we have never had children either but i have no problem giving people with children a deduction for those children....

 

[Skull Pilot]

either way...you still get to take all of your federal income tax deductions to reduce your taxes owed, so the rest of the country should be able to as well....yet you complain about it.....

that just does not make any sense to me skull, none what so ever! and hypocritical to boot, again, in my humble opinion!

and do you think that every person should have to pay SS taxes on their entire income as those who make below 100 plus k do? Or is that somehow, different?

I don't get deductions I get one personal deduction.

I have advocated for the dumping of all deductions along with a lower rate for years.

Why should I pay more in taxes than another with my exact same income simply because i do not have a gaggle of rug rats? It's a choice to have kids and those with kids use public services way more than I do hence they should pay a higher rate not a lower one.

You want fairness in the tax law then those who use government services most should pay the most.

And I think SS should be privatized. I've shown many times how a person with control of that 15% of their income could get better disability insurance AND retire with 10 times the income that current SS pays.

And how is it hypocritical to advocate for the exact same tax policy for all? It's you who want different rates and deductions for different people who are the hypocrites.

ok, maybe deductions is not the proper word, maybe business expenses is.....

why be so excited about what taxes you paid or didn't pay around tax time that you even started a thread on it, if memory serves, IF you only get the standard deduction and personal exemption you didn't mention....? your taxes should be the same each year if that were the case?

why did you tell us of all the things you could write off as a business owner? and the maneuverings you were doing to even owe less?

that was you, wasn't it?

so what was that all about?

we have never had children either but i have no problem giving people with children a deduction for those children....

I have a business and that business has expenses. I pay taxes on every penny of profit.

And my income fluctuates with my profits so no my income is not the same every single year so why should the taxes I pay be the same every single year?

And I am never excited about paying taxes because I pay in way more than I get in return from the government. And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already.


And if you want your money to subsidize other peoples' brats then good for you can choose give to UNICEF and not take the deduction.


I want my money to subsidize my own financial future not someone else's.

 

[Article 15]

And I am never excited about paying taxes because I pay in way more than I get in return from the government. And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already.

I encourage you to give your employees raises and/or bonuses to keep yourself under 250k and the boogeyman's radar.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[And I am never excited about paying taxes because I pay in way more than I get in return from the government. And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already.


.

No you won't.

 

[NYcarbineer]

A lower rate than me... lower payment per dollar for the same exact services I receive too... the same product at a reduced cost at the expense of someone else

Bwaaaaa...so you don't even want a flat percent tax, you want everyone to pay the same dollar amount of taxes.

jeezus christ on a bicycle!

Nope... nice try... try a little reading comprehension... show where I ever said such a thing... I want a flat % tax where each dollar earned has a % that goes for the running of our country

You complained:

"lower payment per dollar for the same exact services I receive too"

Even under a pure flat tax someone with half the taxable income you have would pay half the per dollar rate for the exact same services,

so yes, whether you meant to or not, you were saying you want everyone to pay the same dollar amount in federal income taxes.

 

[Shogun]

so... DON'T tax the rich, by god... but let's tax the poor into invalidation as citizens.


classy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And I am never excited about paying taxes because I pay in way more than I get in return from the government. And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already.

I encourage you to give your employees raises and/or bonuses to keep yourself under 250k and the boogeyman's radar.

I pay my people above average wages for their positions as compared to the average for my industry in the north east.

What you people don't seem to understand id that if a business's payroll is more than a certain percentage of the gross (in my case the benchmark is about 45%) then you are not running it well and your chances of selling in the future are considerably less favorable.

 

[Skull Pilot]

[And I am never excited about paying taxes because I pay in way more than I get in return from the government. And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already.


.

No you won't.

Says you.

I already have set up several deferred compensation plans using life insurance that I can tap into years from now while not paying a dime in taxes on that money until I use it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Skull Pilot is an amazing person. Makes a great living.....never better than during this recession.....running a business in which he pays higher than necessary wages to his employees.

He is complaining about having to pay higher taxes if his INCOME exceeds 250K...so he is going to shitcan potential profit so that he stays below this amount. Very, very, interesting.

As a business man, he must know that, if Obama's increase on those who earn over 250K is established....and he more than doubles his income to the point where he makes 500k, his additional tax will be $7500.

So, in order not to pay $7500 in additional taxes, this wunderkind would give up $242,500 in additional income. Fucking brilliant!

If I had to hire 2 new employees at a total cost of 200K in order to have the priveledge of paying that $7500 extra.....I'd do it in a fucking heartbeat. That's business.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot is an amazing person. Makes a great living.....never better than during this recession.....running a business in which he pays higher than necessary wages to his employees.

Not higher than necessary. Above average for my industry in my area. That ensures i get quality people and keep them. And my payroll is slightly below the benchmark for my industry. So I actually have a smaller payroll than I could. You do realize that many taxes are based on gross payroll don't you? So exceeding the benchmark is just plain old stupid.

He is complaining about having to pay higher taxes if his INCOME exceeds 250K...so he is going to shitcan potential profit so that he stays below this amount. Very, very, interesting

.

You're an idiot. Where did i say I would shit can any profit. I said I have set up several courses of action to defer income and therefor not pay taxes on that money until I use it in the distant future when my income will most likely not be anywhere near the evil level of 250K. It's called planning ahead; something you sheep don't do very well if at all.

As a business man, he must know that, if Obama's increase on those who earn over 250K is established....and he more than doubles his income to the point where he makes 500k, his additional tax will be $7500.

Link?

If my AGI last year was 250K instead of 215 and my actual taxes paid were 22% and I paid in 55K what would I pay if my AGI doubled to 500K and the 22% was unchanged? I would have paid 110K. Is that only $7500

I think you need to brush up on your math.

So, in order not to pay $7500 in additional taxes, this wunderkind would give up $242,500 in additional income. Fucking brilliant!

I already explained my strategy on that, sheep.

If I had to hire 2 new employees at a total cost of 200K in order to have the priveledge of paying that $7500 extra.....I'd do it in a fucking heartbeat. That's business.

I won't hire until business warrants it moron. If you think that just hiring 2 people will magically increase profits by 250K then you're even more of a moron than I thought.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You are brilliant....like I said. Brilliant. You have apparently discovered a way to avoid paying the increased tax rate by defering income. An excellent strategy. It begs the question, then.......why are you whining like a bitch about the proposed increase?

"And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already."

They don't apply to you. Genius!

And....reread my comments about the new hires. You failed to comprehend. Hard to believe, given your brilliance.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I don't give a shit what platform the repugnant-cans run on as I am not a member of the GOP.

Since when does being an American mean we expect something for nothing? Why is it those who pay the least in taxes demand the most?

When everyone starts taking responsibility and paying their own way, pulling their own weight and carrying their own water then and only then might we see prosperity again.

We don't tax low wages at the margins the same as high wages because of the principle that the first dollars we make go for necessities. We tend not to tax money spent on necessities.

So if you earn 18K and you buy an iPhone with your non-taxed income, it would then be a necessity??

The idea of necessity is warped, and ever shifting... another subjective sliding scale...

Growing up my grandmother and I grew 3 acres worth of veggies... canning them, making jelly, freezing them, etc... we were well below the 'poverty level'... yet we found ways to provide necessities... now, some people don't and some people do... but that just shows you that the scale slides...

IMHO, and as I have stated so many times, taxation should be just as blind as justice...

​

Favoritism, complexity, corruption and cronyism IS the problem with the current tax code.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You are brilliant....like I said. Brilliant. You have apparently discovered a way to avoid paying the increased tax rate by defering income. An excellent strategy. It begs the question, then.......why are you whining like a bitch about the proposed increase?

"And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already."

They don't apply to you. Genius!{/quote]

Because I planned it that way little sheep.

And....reread my comments about the new hires. You failed to comprehend. Hard to believe, given your brilliance.

If I had to hire 2 new employees at a total cost of 200K in order to have the priveledge of paying that $7500 extra.....I'd do it in a fucking heartbeat. That's business.

And it's not just 7500 idiot. If your income went from 250K to 500K you'd be paying a lot more than 7500 more in taxes

I've said that I think you are brilliant. Therefore, you know that we are discussing "new" taxes here. You know, the 3% increase that the "evil rich" might have to pay on income above 250K. That is $7500. I know that all of this simple math is below your pay grade.....but please try and dumb down for me.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are brilliant....like I said. Brilliant. You have apparently discovered a way to avoid paying the increased tax rate by defering income. An excellent strategy. It begs the question, then.......why are you whining like a bitch about the proposed increase?

"And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already."

They don't apply to you. Genius!

And why don't they apply, little sheep? Because unlike people of your ilk, I thought ahead and planned for my future. Try it sometime

And....reread my comments about the new hires. You failed to comprehend. Hard to believe, given your brilliance.

You are another sheep who doesn't know shit about running a business aren't you?

If you hire 2 people at 100K a year each you you would probably not double your profits as those two people cost much more than their base salary to the bottom line. And in my business I would need to hire additional support staff for those two people

SO your example isn't even worth picking apart any further.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are brilliant....like I said. Brilliant. You have apparently discovered a way to avoid paying the increased tax rate by defering income. An excellent strategy. It begs the question, then.......why are you whining like a bitch about the proposed increase?

"And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already."

They don't apply to you. Genius!{/quote]

Because I planned it that way little sheep.




And it's not just 7500 idiot. If your income went from 250K to 500K you'd be paying a lot more than 7500 more in taxes

I've said that I think you are brilliant. Therefore, you know that we are discussing "new" taxes here. You know, the 3% increase that the "evil rich" might have to pay on income above 250K. That is $7500. I know that all of this simple math is below your pay grade.....but please try and dumb down for me.

If I doubled my income the additional 3% would be 15,000 not 7500. Once again do the math.

 

[AVG-JOE]

it wouldnt be unfair.

As a matter of fact. everyone IS able to earn exactly the same amount.
However, many dont opt to do what is necessary to earn the same amount as others.

A person with no work record and a successful dib claim gets $8,088 per year in federal welfare SSI. That's the minimum amount the federal government believes an American can survive on.

It just seems stupid to me to tax a guy earning $7,000 per year and then come back with a welfare check so he can survive. On the other hand, not letting EVERYone earn their first 7 grand or 10 grand (or whatever) free of federal income taxes would be blatenly unfair.

I apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying.

My feeling is this...and it is off the cuff but based on my understanding of what is needed to survive...

and I am referring to a flat tax of somewhere between 9-12%

Single......12K or less....no Fed Tax.
Married file jointly.....20K no fed tax

Income earners between 20K and 50K only pay tax on the 20K above the base of 20K

Income earners 50K-75K only pay taxes from 15K and up

Income earners 75K and more....taxes on all income

Income is to include all income including cap gains.

I know...sounds dumb...got any better ideas?

Why so many levels of taxation? As far as I'm concerned, the simpler the better.

Everyone (including pieces of paper that can open bank accounts) pays 15% income tax on income in excess of $20,000 per year and a 2% sales tax. No deductions (except payroll), no bullshit.

Simple. Fair. Predictable. What more does a free market want?



Married, single, non-human corporation? Doesn't matter.

You want kids? They're fun, but they're gonna cost you!

Don't want to pay taxes? Limit your earnings to >$20k and don't buy anything.