Tax Policy Center delivers haymaker to 9 - 9 - 9

[NYcarbineer]

I don't give a shit what platform the repugnant-cans run on as I am not a member of the GOP.

Since when does being an American mean we expect something for nothing? Why is it those who pay the least in taxes demand the most?

When everyone starts taking responsibility and paying their own way, pulling their own weight and carrying their own water then and only then might we see prosperity again.

9% of that 47% gets back more than they pay in....the rest just have enough deductions to bring them down to owing nothing, but they DO NOT get any of your precious tax monies skull.

and we do not have any children either, and have never been given an extra deduction for them, or the child tax credit or the EIC....but that's life.

so who you are pissed at, are the 9% that get more than they paid in, right? the poorest of the poor?

Or are you pissed at the 38% that had enough deductions to bring them down to zero in what they owe the fed?

and if the above is the case, why should you be allowed those same deductions that bring what you owe in taxes down if you are not willing to give those same deductions allowed for YOU to every one else??

Put it this way

No one should have a zero or less than zero tax bill at the end of the year.

And if people are paying no taxes or getting more than they paid in of course they are being subsidized by my tax money.

Money that could be going to secure my and my wife's future is being used to pay the way for someone else.

If you lower the capital gains tax to zero, the effect is the same. Income is not taxed, therefore you are subsidizing it if you pay taxes.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's about time those that pay zero income tax and receive refundable tax credits at our expense start paying their own way.

Then the GOP should run on that. Run on the position that the big problem in this country is that the Poor are undertaxed.

And while they're committing political suicide running on that platform, they shouldn't forget to remind us that it was GOP tax policy in the first place that lowered taxes on low income Americans to the point where they are.

I don't give a shit what platform the repugnant-cans run on as I am not a member of the GOP.

Since when does being an American mean we expect something for nothing? Why is it those who pay the least in taxes demand the most?

When everyone starts taking responsibility and paying their own way, pulling their own weight and carrying their own water then and only then might we see prosperity again.

We don't tax low wages at the margins the same as high wages because of the principle that the first dollars we make go for necessities. We tend not to tax money spent on necessities.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I personally am not in support of any raised floor.... it opens the door for some again not to pay income tax... and it brings us right back to an effective progressive rate, which is what is wrong in the first place... one person paying 0%, one person paying 1%, one person paying 8%, one person paying 14.9% on their total incomes.... it is yet another masked system of unequal treatment... and yet another way to play class warfare...

Everyone, and I do mean everyone, should have an equal % stake in the game.... maybe, just maybe, then with everyone having a stake in the game, more people will look more carefully and critically on how much the government is spending and doing... those without a stake in the game now could not really give a rat's ass about whether the government spends trillions more than it should, for it is not anything coming from their contribution

Why would it be unfair if everyone was able to earn exactly the same amount before the income tax kicked in?

it wouldnt be unfair.

As a matter of fact. everyone IS able to earn exactly the same amount.
However, many dont opt to do what is necessary to earn the same amount as others.

A person with no work record and a successful dib claim gets $8,088 per year in federal welfare SSI. That's the minimum amount the federal government believes an American can survive on.

It just seems stupid to me to tax a guy earning $7,000 per year and then come back with a welfare check so he can survive. On the other hand, not letting EVERYone earn their first 7 grand or 10 grand (or whatever) free of federal income taxes would be blatenly unfair.

 

[8537]

What he should have said is...."right now, the less wealthy cant afford a taxc increase. However, the wealthier can and whereas we recognize the amount the wealthy put into our tax revenue, we have no choice but to turn to them and ask them to contribute more.

 

[DiamondDave]

Then the GOP should run on that. Run on the position that the big problem in this country is that the Poor are undertaxed.

And while they're committing political suicide running on that platform, they shouldn't forget to remind us that it was GOP tax policy in the first place that lowered taxes on low income Americans to the point where they are.

I don't give a shit what platform the repugnant-cans run on as I am not a member of the GOP.

Since when does being an American mean we expect something for nothing? Why is it those who pay the least in taxes demand the most?

When everyone starts taking responsibility and paying their own way, pulling their own weight and carrying their own water then and only then might we see prosperity again.

We don't tax low wages at the margins the same as high wages because of the principle that the first dollars we make go for necessities. We tend not to tax money spent on necessities.

So if you earn 18K and you buy an iPhone with your non-taxed income, it would then be a necessity??

The idea of necessity is warped, and ever shifting... another subjective sliding scale...

Growing up my grandmother and I grew 3 acres worth of veggies... canning them, making jelly, freezing them, etc... we were well below the 'poverty level'... yet we found ways to provide necessities... now, some people don't and some people do... but that just shows you that the scale slides...

IMHO, and as I have stated so many times, taxation should be just as blind as justice...

 

[Jarhead]

Why would it be unfair if everyone was able to earn exactly the same amount before the income tax kicked in?

it wouldnt be unfair.

As a matter of fact. everyone IS able to earn exactly the same amount.
However, many dont opt to do what is necessary to earn the same amount as others.

A person with no work record and a successful dib claim gets $8,088 per year in federal welfare SSI. That's the minimum amount the federal government believes an American can survive on.

It just seems stupid to me to tax a guy earning $7,000 per year and then come back with a welfare check so he can survive. On the other hand, not letting EVERYone earn their first 7 grand or 10 grand (or whatever) free of federal income taxes would be blatenly unfair.

I apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying.

My feeling is this...and it is off the cuff but based on my understanding of what is needed to survive...

and I am referring to a flat tax of somewhere between 9-12%

Single......12K or less....no Fed Tax.
Married file jointly.....20K no fed tax

Income earners between 20K and 50K only pay tax on the 20K above the base of 20K

Income earners 50K-75K only pay taxes from 15K and up

Income earners 75K and more....taxes on all income

Income is to include all income including cap gains.

I know...sounds dumb...got any better ideas?

 

[Inthemiddle]

The article does not address local, city, county, state income nor sales taxes. Where do these apply? Or did I miss this detail? Thanks.

Uh, they don't apply, since we're talking about FEDERAL taxes.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Anyone who believes that taxation should be blind does not believe in the dream of America. Turn those in need into taxpayers. Gang, we are going to pay our dues to others, either up front or on the back end. There is no escape from it. So let's be smart and remember we are all part of the social compact.

 

[DiamondDave]

it wouldnt be unfair.

As a matter of fact. everyone IS able to earn exactly the same amount.
However, many dont opt to do what is necessary to earn the same amount as others.

A person with no work record and a successful dib claim gets $8,088 per year in federal welfare SSI. That's the minimum amount the federal government believes an American can survive on.

It just seems stupid to me to tax a guy earning $7,000 per year and then come back with a welfare check so he can survive. On the other hand, not letting EVERYone earn their first 7 grand or 10 grand (or whatever) free of federal income taxes would be blatenly unfair.

I apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying.

My feeling is this...and it is off the cuff but based on my understanding of what is needed to survive...

and I am referring to a flat tax of somewhere between 9-12%

Single......12K or less....no Fed Tax.
Married file jointly.....20K no fed tax

Income earners between 20K and 50K only pay tax on the 20K above the base of 20K

Income earners 50K-75K only pay taxes from 15K and up

Income earners 75K and more....taxes on all income

Income is to include all income including cap gains.

I know...sounds dumb...got any better ideas?

Not saying that I agree with this in any way, shape, or form...

But... with such a benefit of an income 'floor'... would you then agree that since you are getting the 'relief' for 'necessities' with this plan, we should then get rid of all governmental assistance for 'necessities' because the 'poor' are already gaining this benefit??? No more government healthcare, no welfare, no entitlements, no vouchers, no section 8, no nothing

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent....

When you pay nothng or next to it - as these households do, thanks to GWB's tax cuts - any increase, in terms of percetnage, is huge.
:shrug:

 

[Jarhead]

What he should have said is...."right now, the less wealthy cant afford a taxc increase. However, the wealthier can and whereas we recognize the amount the wealthy put into our tax revenue, we have no choice but to turn to them and ask them to contribute more.

thanks.

Approach is everything.......

One of the reasons I say Obama is not a leader. He does not know how to alter his approach when necessary.

I wonder how he would be doing with the GOP if he said way back when the dems had both majorities.......

"I admire the effort put forth by my party to get things done, but I dont necessarily agree with the way they are painting the opposing party. The GOP is not the party of no. They are a party that represents the sentiments of half the people of this great nation and just as we dont agree with their ideas, they dont agree with ours. They deserve to be heard and their ideas deserve to be incorporated into legislation whenever feasible."

I bet he would have more working with him.

 

[Jarhead]

A person with no work record and a successful dib claim gets $8,088 per year in federal welfare SSI. That's the minimum amount the federal government believes an American can survive on.

It just seems stupid to me to tax a guy earning $7,000 per year and then come back with a welfare check so he can survive. On the other hand, not letting EVERYone earn their first 7 grand or 10 grand (or whatever) free of federal income taxes would be blatenly unfair.

I apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying.

My feeling is this...and it is off the cuff but based on my understanding of what is needed to survive...

and I am referring to a flat tax of somewhere between 9-12%

Single......12K or less....no Fed Tax.
Married file jointly.....20K no fed tax

Income earners between 20K and 50K only pay tax on the 20K above the base of 20K

Income earners 50K-75K only pay taxes from 15K and up

Income earners 75K and more....taxes on all income

Income is to include all income including cap gains.

I know...sounds dumb...got any better ideas?

Not saying that I agree with this in any way, shape, or form...

But... with such a benefit of an income 'floor'... would you then agree that since you are getting the 'relief' for 'necessities' with this plan, we should then get rid of all governmental assistance for 'necessities' because the 'poor' are already gaining this benefit??? No more government healthcare, no welfare, no entitlements, no vouchers, no section 8, no nothing

I will never agree to eliminating welfare. Exactly how does a mother with 2 children feed her children on 10K a year?
Section 8 is an issue in itself becuase a flat tax would eliminate section 42 (LIHTC)....so who the heck knows what is going to happen in the rental housing market. I mean...how are we going to get developers to build in depressed areas?
Government healthcare? I say go back to what we had....ER with government assistance for those that can not afford other insurances

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent....

When you pay nothng or next to it - as these households do, thanks to GWB's tax cuts - any increase, in terms of percetnage, is huge.
:shrug:

Which is the irony. The GOP painted themselves into a corner.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't give a shit what platform the repugnant-cans run on as I am not a member of the GOP.

Since when does being an American mean we expect something for nothing? Why is it those who pay the least in taxes demand the most?

When everyone starts taking responsibility and paying their own way, pulling their own weight and carrying their own water then and only then might we see prosperity again.

We don't tax low wages at the margins the same as high wages because of the principle that the first dollars we make go for necessities. We tend not to tax money spent on necessities.

So if you earn 18K and you buy an iPhone with your non-taxed income, it would then be a necessity??

The idea of necessity is warped, and ever shifting... another subjective sliding scale...

Growing up my grandmother and I grew 3 acres worth of veggies... canning them, making jelly, freezing them, etc... we were well below the 'poverty level'... yet we found ways to provide necessities... now, some people don't and some people do... but that just shows you that the scale slides...

IMHO, and as I have stated so many times, taxation should be just as blind as justice...

The idea that the first dollar a person earns should be taxed the same as the millionth dollar someone earns is preposterous. There is no meaningful support for that concept.

 

[DiamondDave]

I apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying.

My feeling is this...and it is off the cuff but based on my understanding of what is needed to survive...

and I am referring to a flat tax of somewhere between 9-12%

Single......12K or less....no Fed Tax.
Married file jointly.....20K no fed tax

Income earners between 20K and 50K only pay tax on the 20K above the base of 20K

Income earners 50K-75K only pay taxes from 15K and up

Income earners 75K and more....taxes on all income

Income is to include all income including cap gains.

I know...sounds dumb...got any better ideas?

Not saying that I agree with this in any way, shape, or form...

But... with such a benefit of an income 'floor'... would you then agree that since you are getting the 'relief' for 'necessities' with this plan, we should then get rid of all governmental assistance for 'necessities' because the 'poor' are already gaining this benefit??? No more government healthcare, no welfare, no entitlements, no vouchers, no section 8, no nothing

I will never agree to eliminating welfare. Exactly how does a mother with 2 children feed her children on 10K a year?
Section 8 is an issue in itself becuase a flat tax would eliminate section 42 (LIHTC)....so who the heck knows what is going to happen in the rental housing market. I mean...how are we going to get developers to build in depressed areas?
Government healthcare? I say go back to what we had....ER with government assistance for those that can not afford other insurances

By working a second job... but gaining a roommate situation where they help each other out... by joining the military.... by approaching local charities... by giving the child up for adoption because they cannot take care of it.... by becoming an extreme couponer... by converting their entire front and back yard into a garden... by collecting cans and turning them into recycle centers for $$... by moving to an area where it don't cost shit to live... by moving back home with mom and dad.... the list goes on....

The problem is that it's just more and more handouts or breaks.. everywhere you look... and it maintains a group of people, reliant on govt, who will continually vote in ways to keep freebies coming at the expense of others...

Look.. I fully support giving to charities that help those in need... food banks, clothing drives, job training programs, etc.. all funded by charity.. I give a lot every year to various things... but I do not think anyone has it OWED to them by government, nor do I think anyone should be without a stake in the game... having no stake makes it easy to allow for more unchecked bullshit in government...

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent....

When you pay nothng or next to it - as these households do, thanks to GWB's tax cuts - any increase, in terms of percetnage, is huge.
:shrug:

Which is the irony. The GOP painted themselves into a corner.

There's no irony here, just mal-representation of the facts.

 

[DiamondDave]

We don't tax low wages at the margins the same as high wages because of the principle that the first dollars we make go for necessities. We tend not to tax money spent on necessities.

So if you earn 18K and you buy an iPhone with your non-taxed income, it would then be a necessity??

The idea of necessity is warped, and ever shifting... another subjective sliding scale...

Growing up my grandmother and I grew 3 acres worth of veggies... canning them, making jelly, freezing them, etc... we were well below the 'poverty level'... yet we found ways to provide necessities... now, some people don't and some people do... but that just shows you that the scale slides...

IMHO, and as I have stated so many times, taxation should be just as blind as justice...

The idea that the first dollar a person earns should be taxed the same as the millionth dollar someone earns is preposterous. There is no meaningful support for that concept.

It is not 'supported' because of people like you who want something at the expense of others... selective equal treatment because it benefits you...

I guess it is just as preposterous to then say that we should have differing prices for things or services depending on your income??? Differing sales tax rates depending on your income?? Why stop at just income tax?? Keep making those nasty earners provide more and more to you

 

[NYcarbineer]

So if you earn 18K and you buy an iPhone with your non-taxed income, it would then be a necessity??

The idea of necessity is warped, and ever shifting... another subjective sliding scale...

Growing up my grandmother and I grew 3 acres worth of veggies... canning them, making jelly, freezing them, etc... we were well below the 'poverty level'... yet we found ways to provide necessities... now, some people don't and some people do... but that just shows you that the scale slides...

IMHO, and as I have stated so many times, taxation should be just as blind as justice...

The idea that the first dollar a person earns should be taxed the same as the millionth dollar someone earns is preposterous. There is no meaningful support for that concept.

It is not 'supported' because of people like you who want something at the expense of others... selective equal treatment because it benefits you...

I guess it is just as preposterous to then say that we should have differing prices for things or services depending on your income??? Differing sales tax rates depending on your income?? Why stop at just income tax?? Keep making those nasty earners provide more and more to you

I make 50 grand a year, I am single with no dependents and no exemptions/deductions to claim.

What advantages am I getting from the current system?

 

[DiamondDave]

The idea that the first dollar a person earns should be taxed the same as the millionth dollar someone earns is preposterous. There is no meaningful support for that concept.

It is not 'supported' because of people like you who want something at the expense of others... selective equal treatment because it benefits you...

I guess it is just as preposterous to then say that we should have differing prices for things or services depending on your income??? Differing sales tax rates depending on your income?? Why stop at just income tax?? Keep making those nasty earners provide more and more to you

I make 50 grand a year, I am single with no dependents and no exemptions/deductions to claim.

What advantages am I getting from the current system?

A lower rate than me... lower payment per dollar for the same exact services I receive too... the same product at a reduced cost at the expense of someone else

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not saying that I agree with this in any way, shape, or form...

But... with such a benefit of an income 'floor'... would you then agree that since you are getting the 'relief' for 'necessities' with this plan, we should then get rid of all governmental assistance for 'necessities' because the 'poor' are already gaining this benefit??? No more government healthcare, no welfare, no entitlements, no vouchers, no section 8, no nothing

I will never agree to eliminating welfare. Exactly how does a mother with 2 children feed her children on 10K a year?
Section 8 is an issue in itself becuase a flat tax would eliminate section 42 (LIHTC)....so who the heck knows what is going to happen in the rental housing market. I mean...how are we going to get developers to build in depressed areas?
Government healthcare? I say go back to what we had....ER with government assistance for those that can not afford other insurances

By working a second job... but gaining a roommate situation where they help each other out... by joining the military.... by approaching local charities... by giving the child up for adoption because they cannot take care of it.... by becoming an extreme couponer... by converting their entire front and back yard into a garden... by collecting cans and turning them into recycle centers for $$... by moving to an area where it don't cost shit to live... by moving back home with mom and dad.... the list goes on....

The problem is that it's just more and more handouts or breaks.. everywhere you look... and it maintains a group of people, reliant on govt, who will continually vote in ways to keep freebies coming at the expense of others...

Look.. I fully support giving to charities that help those in need... food banks, clothing drives, job training programs, etc.. all funded by charity.. I give a lot every year to various things... but I do not think anyone has it OWED to them by government, nor do I think anyone should be without a stake in the game... having no stake makes it easy to allow for more unchecked bullshit in government...

Bull shit, DiamodDave. That is the only appropriate answer to your rant.

Take a hike, ant wipe.