Taking Easter Too Far?

[Shogun]

What a wonderfully tolerant thing to say.

in fact, such a statement IS tolorant. Should we make these people stop trying to express themselves religiously like this? I don't think so. No more than we should make pentecostals cut their hair and wear makeup or make catholics stop kneeling every 3 seconds during mass. Again, as long as people do these things willingly then we can point and laugh but it really is none of our concern.


for christs sake, is this any crazier than the running of the bulls?

 

[frazzledgear]

That isn't the question I asked. I asked if it IS our business?

Do I recall correctly from a few years ago that you were one of the pro-euthenasia crowd for people who wished to commit assisted suicide?

IIRC, the two responses given most from the pro-euthenasia crowd were: It was none of our business, and it was the individual's choice.

So I ask, does the event of Filipino Christians volunteering to be crucified deserve any different responses than that?

If you say yes, tell me how you feel about those Africans that put huge dinner plates in their lips and ears?

The answer is it is none of our business. Just like it isn't any of our business that some Shi'ite Muslims in Iraq honor one of their own holy days by walking through the streets while beating themselves bloody with whips. Every year.

Is that any different than voluntarily having oneself nailed to the cross? In both cases, they are re-enacting a specific religious event -somehow believing that by doing so, they gain some kind of religious favor or insight.

There are people and tribes in other countries that routinely practice self-mutilation as part of the rite of adulthood or undergo some really painful rituals (that cause no permament damage) to celebrate some special day -people who are neither Christian nor Muslim.

Should the US be pressuring Muslim nations to somehow ban that practice and other nations to crackdown on tribal people who practice self-mutilation as part of their own religion -or just when it is Christians?

It is the business of other countries (not just our own) when it involves practices that are forced on others against their will that are perceived to be inhumane and unjust. For example -when another country practices the execution of children as young as 8, female circumcision aka female genital mutilation, some nations are heavily involved in the sex slave trade, or convict and execute rape victims for "adultery" etc. That kind of thing requires the world speak up -not just our own country. But no country has the right to demand the followers of a religion stop a voluntary practice that actually results in no real permanent damage to themselves -especially when the only real grounds for objection is that it is just merely visually unpleasant to see it.

If it bothers you to see how other people voluntarily choose to exercise their religion in a way that actually causes no permanent damage to themselves -then don't look.

 

[Shogun]

Should the US be pressuring Muslim nations to somehow ban that practice and other nations to crackdown on tribal people who practice self-mutilation as part of their own religion -or just when it is Christians?


it must suck to have to run life through a martyr filter like that.


I'm probably the biggest, most hateful atheist on this board and I am way ahead of you in making the same point. the EXACT same point.


dont let that keep you from feeling like the eternal victim though.

 

[frazzledgear]

Should the US be pressuring Muslim nations to somehow ban that practice and other nations to crackdown on tribal people who practice self-mutilation as part of their own religion -or just when it is Christians?


it must suck to have to run life through a martyr filter like that.


I'm probably the biggest, most hateful atheist on this board and I am way ahead of you in making the same point. the EXACT same point.


dont let that keep you from feeling like the eternal victim though.

I clearly didn't make my point well at all -because you totally missed it. I wanted to know if the original poster's concern about the individuals nailing themselves to the cross is due to the fact what they are doing is actually NOT an expected, required or traditional act in the Christian religion and never has been. I assumed he was well aware that kind of act was not part of Christian doctrine -since he is the one who posted the link to it. As a Christian, I found the act appalling too. So I wanted to know if he was particularly appalled over THIS particular picture as opposed to equally appalling images of other similar practices in other religions on religious grounds. Did he question whether the US should pressure nations regarding similar practices among some Muslims and tribal rituals, etc -or just in THIS case and on those grounds?

In other words -did he single out this picture because it involves an act that is actually not part of Christian doctrine as opposed to pictures of Muslims or tribal practices involving equally appalling images -but ARE acts that are expected, accepted and traditional acts in their religions.

As a Christian, if I had the ability to do so, I would encourage these people not to nail themselves to the cross out of some misguided belief it provides some kind of religious favor or insight. I also wonder why local Christian churches have not condemned such acts since they would certainly know it is no part of Christian doctrine. But I do not believe that the US should officially do anything about it since it is a voluntary practice and not one forced on these individuals. And I feel the same way about self-flagellating Muslims, tribal rituals, etc. Not anyone else's business as long as it involves voluntary acts that cause no permament injury and is not forced on others -whether it is actually part of their religious doctrine or not.

 

[frazzledgear]

No. In this instance it seems as though our nation is not doing anything about it. In other instances, when our government thinks that another nation is doing stuff that we think is terribly wrong, we get involved. It is as simple as that.

The difference is, this is not a government-ordered requirement. This isn't another "nation" doing this. It is a few INDIVIDUALS doing it to themselves, not a government doing it to them. You want the US to pressure another government to regulate the religious practices of some of its citizens on what grounds? Our Constitution doesn't allow our own government to regulate or ban religious practices unless the need to do so outweighs the constitutional ban. It is an act that results in no permanent injury and is entirely voluntary. Maybe you didn't know it, but there are people inside this country who engage in self-flagellation on religious grounds too and our own government doesn't ban that practice either. Just because there aren't any pictures showing them doing it, doesn't mean there aren't any. Our government only forbids you from whipping someone else on religious grounds -not yourself.

Now Christians of the same particular denomination urging the local Christian churches to condemn such practices on the grounds it is not part of Christian doctrine -I can see that. But that amounts to action by private citizens, not our government.