"Swatting" prank turns deadly..............

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I want to know what went into recon, and threat assessment prior to the team announcing themselves...

I don't believe they announced themselves. He came out on his own.

He just had a sneaking suspicion that he should go to the front door, and open it?

If so... are you suggesting that he surprised the SWAT team?

I honestly don't believe there was a SWAT team there. I think he surprised the officers responding to the 911 call at his address.

And that’s where the problem begins for a “clean shoot “ defense...

You can hear the officers give him directions to show his hands. I don't know what else you think is required. Should they have sent a registered letter the day before?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

1. Make sure it takes them time.
2. Make sure you have a way out.
3. If no way out is available... make it costly.

You would likely end up dead. Stupid leads to dead more often than accidents.

 

[ABikerSailor]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

You know Admiral, one of the things that a lot of people are missing is that an actual call was placed to 911. The 911 operator isn't going to ask if it's a prank, they are going to take down all the information and pass it on to the police.

The police aren't going to ask if this is a prank. They are constantly called out for stuff like this. And, part of the preparation for going on a call like that is to assume it is real and there are weapons at the address.

Not taking a call like that seriously is what gets a person dead. If you don't take it seriously, you can end up dead.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

I hope the person responsible for calling in this hoax is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. An innocent man lost his life over some Call of Duty butthurt.

They should be charged with murder. That's what happened, and that would end it.

 

[Vastator]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

1. Make sure it takes them time.
2. Make sure you have a way out.
3. If no way out is available... make it costly.

You would likely end up dead. Stupid leads to dead more often than accidents.

Once you’ve passed number two... it’s a foregone conclusion. Thus... “make it costly”

 

[Vastator]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

You know Admiral, one of the things that a lot of people are missing is that an actual call was placed to 911. The 911 operator isn't going to ask if it's a prank, they are going to take down all the information and pass it on to the police.

The police aren't going to ask if this is a prank. They are constantly called out for stuff like this. And, part of the preparation for going on a call like that is to assume it is real and there are weapons at the address.

Not taking a call like that seriously is what gets a person dead. If you don't take it seriously, you can end up dead.

While what you say is true... it’s also true that SRTs are supposed to be trained for the “unexpected”. And that needs to include the myriad of documented mistakes ranging from wrong address, to false alarm.

 

[harmonica]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

so if they are bad guys and you don't shoot them--you're dead
if they are police, you are ok
..I read a couple of stories about cops going to the wrong address and the owner got shot
or what about the time I think a priest tried to drive away when a plain clothes cop tried to stop him...the priest wasn't committing a crime, but had something to do with other people doing drugs or something
....then the Norwegian mass killer dressed as a cop
...if a cop is not in uniform, I don't see how it is illegal not to listen to them

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

You know Admiral, one of the things that a lot of people are missing is that an actual call was placed to 911. The 911 operator isn't going to ask if it's a prank, they are going to take down all the information and pass it on to the police.

The police aren't going to ask if this is a prank. They are constantly called out for stuff like this. And, part of the preparation for going on a call like that is to assume it is real and there are weapons at the address.

Not taking a call like that seriously is what gets a person dead. If you don't take it seriously, you can end up dead.

While what you say is true... it’s also true that SRTs are supposed to be trained for the “unexpected”. And that needs to include the myriad of documented mistakes ranging from wrong address, to false alarm.

I don't think they even had the the opportunity to do any of that.

 

[Vastator]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

You know Admiral, one of the things that a lot of people are missing is that an actual call was placed to 911. The 911 operator isn't going to ask if it's a prank, they are going to take down all the information and pass it on to the police.

The police aren't going to ask if this is a prank. They are constantly called out for stuff like this. And, part of the preparation for going on a call like that is to assume it is real and there are weapons at the address.

Not taking a call like that seriously is what gets a person dead. If you don't take it seriously, you can end up dead.

While what you say is true... it’s also true that SRTs are supposed to be trained for the “unexpected”. And that needs to include the myriad of documented mistakes ranging from wrong address, to false alarm.

I don't think they even had the the opportunity to do any of that.

Then recon, and threat assessment failed. And an innocent civilian lost his life on account of it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

so if they are bad guys and you don't shoot them--you're dead
if they are police, you are ok
..I read a couple of stories about cops going to the wrong address and the owner got shot
or what about the time I think a priest tried to drive away when a plain clothes cop tried to stop him...the priest wasn't committing a crime, but had something to do with other people doing drugs or something
....then the Norwegian mass killer dressed as a cop
...if a cop is not in uniform, I don't see how it is illegal not to listen to them

Oh, please! Knock off the rebellious teen attitude.

If they are bad guys? Seriously? They are going to dress as cops to try and fool you and give them an advantage. What illegal activity are you also doing that would cause this to happen?

Most of the time the owner gets shot when he plays Billy Bad Ass like you were just saying you would.

Plain clothes officers have badges. Assume a cop is the real thing until something convinces you they are not, lIke maybe randomly shooting people in Norway with a rifle!

 

[Vastator]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

so if they are bad guys and you don't shoot them--you're dead
if they are police, you are ok
..I read a couple of stories about cops going to the wrong address and the owner got shot
or what about the time I think a priest tried to drive away when a plain clothes cop tried to stop him...the priest wasn't committing a crime, but had something to do with other people doing drugs or something
....then the Norwegian mass killer dressed as a cop
...if a cop is not in uniform, I don't see how it is illegal not to listen to them

Listen... You get one life. You defend it against all comers. Cuz when it’s over; only the living remember how it really went down.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

there's more to it than just opening the door
..I've always wondered what you should do if armed men--police-- break in to your house?

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

You know Admiral, one of the things that a lot of people are missing is that an actual call was placed to 911. The 911 operator isn't going to ask if it's a prank, they are going to take down all the information and pass it on to the police.

The police aren't going to ask if this is a prank. They are constantly called out for stuff like this. And, part of the preparation for going on a call like that is to assume it is real and there are weapons at the address.

Not taking a call like that seriously is what gets a person dead. If you don't take it seriously, you can end up dead.

While what you say is true... it’s also true that SRTs are supposed to be trained for the “unexpected”. And that needs to include the myriad of documented mistakes ranging from wrong address, to false alarm.

I don't think they even had the the opportunity to do any of that.

Then recon, and threat assessment failed. And an innocent civilian lost his life on account of it.

So what do you know about any of that? How long have you been a SWAT team member?

They may have just pulled up in the vehicles. We don't know. You can't assume they failed to do what they should have done.

 

[Vastator]

Assume that they are there by mistake and cooperate fully. That way you don't end up dead!

If they are not there by mistake, all bets are off as to what you can do to get yourself killed.

You know Admiral, one of the things that a lot of people are missing is that an actual call was placed to 911. The 911 operator isn't going to ask if it's a prank, they are going to take down all the information and pass it on to the police.

The police aren't going to ask if this is a prank. They are constantly called out for stuff like this. And, part of the preparation for going on a call like that is to assume it is real and there are weapons at the address.

Not taking a call like that seriously is what gets a person dead. If you don't take it seriously, you can end up dead.

While what you say is true... it’s also true that SRTs are supposed to be trained for the “unexpected”. And that needs to include the myriad of documented mistakes ranging from wrong address, to false alarm.

I don't think they even had the the opportunity to do any of that.

Then recon, and threat assessment failed. And an innocent civilian lost his life on account of it.

So what do you know about any of that? How long have you been a SWAT team member?

They may have just pulled up in the vehicles. We don't know. You can't assume they failed to do what they should have done.

The results cement their failure in the annalls of history. I was a door kicker for three years. In places far less hospitable than the USA. These guys appear to have fucked up...

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You know Admiral, one of the things that a lot of people are missing is that an actual call was placed to 911. The 911 operator isn't going to ask if it's a prank, they are going to take down all the information and pass it on to the police.

The police aren't going to ask if this is a prank. They are constantly called out for stuff like this. And, part of the preparation for going on a call like that is to assume it is real and there are weapons at the address.

Not taking a call like that seriously is what gets a person dead. If you don't take it seriously, you can end up dead.

While what you say is true... it’s also true that SRTs are supposed to be trained for the “unexpected”. And that needs to include the myriad of documented mistakes ranging from wrong address, to false alarm.

I don't think they even had the the opportunity to do any of that.

Then recon, and threat assessment failed. And an innocent civilian lost his life on account of it.

So what do you know about any of that? How long have you been a SWAT team member?

They may have just pulled up in the vehicles. We don't know. You can't assume they failed to do what they should have done.

The results cement their failure in the annalls of history. I was a door kicker for three years. In places far less hospitable than the USA. These guys appear to have fucked up...

So, you have no experience as a police officer. Same here.

If that is the case, why do you assume they fucked up?

 

[Vastator]

While what you say is true... it’s also true that SRTs are supposed to be trained for the “unexpected”. And that needs to include the myriad of documented mistakes ranging from wrong address, to false alarm.

I don't think they even had the the opportunity to do any of that.

Then recon, and threat assessment failed. And an innocent civilian lost his life on account of it.

So what do you know about any of that? How long have you been a SWAT team member?

They may have just pulled up in the vehicles. We don't know. You can't assume they failed to do what they should have done.

The results cement their failure in the annalls of history. I was a door kicker for three years. In places far less hospitable than the USA. These guys appear to have fucked up...

So, you have no experience as a police officer. Same here.

If that is the case, why do you assume they fucked up?

Because an innocent man lay dead at their hands. Do you imagine the shooter is sitting at home right now “knowing” he did the right thing? I promise you... He isn’t.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I don't think they even had the the opportunity to do any of that.

Then recon, and threat assessment failed. And an innocent civilian lost his life on account of it.

So what do you know about any of that? How long have you been a SWAT team member?

They may have just pulled up in the vehicles. We don't know. You can't assume they failed to do what they should have done.

The results cement their failure in the annalls of history. I was a door kicker for three years. In places far less hospitable than the USA. These guys appear to have fucked up...

So, you have no experience as a police officer. Same here.

If that is the case, why do you assume they fucked up?

Because an innocent man lay dead at their hands. Do you imagine the shooter is sitting at home right now “knowing” he did the right thing? I promise you... He isn’t.

Watch the video at this link. Apparently the victim refused to comply with the officer's instructions several times. It is a tragedy, but maybe the victim was not so innocent and provoked the response. We will have to wait for more details.

LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

 

[Vastator]

Then recon, and threat assessment failed. And an innocent civilian lost his life on account of it.

So what do you know about any of that? How long have you been a SWAT team member?

They may have just pulled up in the vehicles. We don't know. You can't assume they failed to do what they should have done.

The results cement their failure in the annalls of history. I was a door kicker for three years. In places far less hospitable than the USA. These guys appear to have fucked up...

So, you have no experience as a police officer. Same here.

If that is the case, why do you assume they fucked up?

Because an innocent man lay dead at their hands. Do you imagine the shooter is sitting at home right now “knowing” he did the right thing? I promise you... He isn’t.

Watch the video at this link. Apparently the victim refused to comply with the officer's instructions several times. It is a tragedy, but maybe the victim was not so innocent and provoked the response. We will have to wait for more details.

LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

As I suspected... the first SRT type call that these officers have ever responded to. This is a tragedy. Dont mistake my view. But it is becoming ever more apparent that LEOs made mistakes.
People really need to understand one core reaction to Leo’s with guns drawn... Keep your hands above your head, until they take you to the ground. Anything less is a crapshoot; and the house always wins.

 

[Circe]

He didn't have to open the door. People that are the midst of committing murders probably usually don't.

Just saying. This is bad police protocol. Let me know if you see something else to disprove that.

They shot an innocent man, he's never coming back. He was probably more of a boy. Would you consider it a justified shooting? I do not.

I consider that some bullshit. They had no right Constitutionally.

I don't agree with any of this. Caller sounded crazed, said he'd shot his father and was holding a gun on the rest of his family and had already poured gasoline all over the house and was thinking about lighting a match. That's what he said. So, no, the police were hardly supposed to get a warrant! And they were pretty lit up when they got there, I bet, trying to save lives.

This was a 28-year-old family man with a normal family with two small children in the house. I feel so bad for the kids.

 

[strollingbones]

they called the caller in ca with manslaughter