Zone1 Suppose Hamas staged no attacks against Israel since 2000?

[odanny]

The abhorrent and indefensible slaughter of civilians is not acceptable by any means, no matter how dire ones plight, and regardless of the level of suffering in the Gaza Strip, that can agreed upon by all rational adults, and for the purpose of this thread, we can all find common ground here.

But what happens if they never had of once staged an intifada since 2000? What would have changed about their situation between then, and now?

Can you see it thru the eyes of your enemy? Can Israel?

Life would have gone on as usual for Israel, had there have been no rockets lobbed across the walls and barb wire that seperate them from Gaza, right? More likely, it has anyway, as that has become the new normal from inside their own country. I'm just wondering if people would have thought that it would have been better for them to act docile and accept their fate, or do they fight for what they believe in?

I bet we all have some common ancestors who fought against real (or perceived) injustice in the history of this country, there was a time when taxation without representation was severe enough for men to take up arms and declare their independence as a free people, but a war against the British was a war against ones relatives and ancestors, far different than the level of hatred that exists surrounding Israel.

I'm wondering what actual actions could have been taken by people inside of Gaza that coud have worked to relieve their suffering? A diplomatic agreement? After Israel continues to expand, year over year, could they feel as though bargaining is in good conscience?

This truly seems a problem with no solution, neither side will yield. One side is desperate, and the "rules" of normal, civilized bahvior do not apply to them, and that does not bode well for Israel, and is what gives everyone in this country a sense of dread that there is no solution, other than the ones employed in the past.

I'm also concerned American Christianity wants to get involved, militarily, and that would not bode well for America. We give them all the weapons they want already.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The abhorrent and indefensible slaughter of civilians is not acceptable by any means, no matter how dire ones plight, and regardless of the level of suffering in the Gaza Strip, that can agreed upon by all rational adults, and for the purpose of this thread, we can all find common ground here.

But what happens if they never had of once staged an intifada since 2000? What would have changed about their situation between then, and now?

Can you see it thru the eyes of your enemy? Can Israel?

Life would have gone on as usual for Israel, had there have been no rockets lobbed across the walls and barb wire that seperate them from Gaza, right? More likely, it has anyway, as that has become the new normal from inside their own country. I'm just wondering if people would have thought that it would have been better for them to act docile and accept their fate, or do they fight for what they believe in?

I bet we all have some common ancestors who fought against real (or perceived) injustice in the history of this country, there was a time when taxation without representation was severe enough for men to take up arms and declare their independence as a free people, but a war against the British was a war against ones relatives and ancestors, far different than the level of hatred that exists surrounding Israel.

I'm wondering what actual actions could have been taken by people inside of Gaza that coud have worked to relieve their suffering? A diplomatic agreement? After Israel continues to expand, year over year, could they feel as though bargaining is in good conscience?

This truly seems a problem with no solution, neither side will yield. One side is desperate, and the "rules" of normal, civilized bahvior do not apply to them, and that does not bode well for Israel, and is what gives everyone in this country a sense of dread that there is no solution, other than the ones employed in the past.

I'm also concerned American Christianity wants to get involved, militarily, and that would not bode well for America. We give them all the weapons they want already.

View attachment 842609

Why is Ottoman land renamed Palestinian?

 

[Yarddog]

The abhorrent and indefensible slaughter of civilians is not acceptable by any means, no matter how dire ones plight, and regardless of the level of suffering in the Gaza Strip, that can agreed upon by all rational adults, and for the purpose of this thread, we can all find common ground here.

But what happens if they never had of once staged an intifada since 2000? What would have changed about their situation between then, and now?

Can you see it thru the eyes of your enemy? Can Israel?

Life would have gone on as usual for Israel, had there have been no rockets lobbed across the walls and barb wire that seperate them from Gaza, right? More likely, it has anyway, as that has become the new normal from inside their own country. I'm just wondering if people would have thought that it would have been better for them to act docile and accept their fate, or do they fight for what they believe in?

I bet we all have some common ancestors who fought against real (or perceived) injustice in the history of this country, there was a time when taxation without representation was severe enough for men to take up arms and declare their independence as a free people, but a war against the British was a war against ones relatives and ancestors, far different than the level of hatred that exists surrounding Israel.

I'm wondering what actual actions could have been taken by people inside of Gaza that coud have worked to relieve their suffering? A diplomatic agreement? After Israel continues to expand, year over year, could they feel as though bargaining is in good conscience?

This truly seems a problem with no solution, neither side will yield. One side is desperate, and the "rules" of normal, civilized bahvior do not apply to them, and that does not bode well for Israel, and is what gives everyone in this country a sense of dread that there is no solution, other than the ones employed in the past.

I'm also concerned American Christianity wants to get involved, militarily, and that would not bode well for America. We give them all the weapons they want already.

View attachment 842609

Look how large Bahrain and Qatar are. Size is not whats inmortant. IF Gaza was peaceful, for one, they could have attracted outside investment, become a tourist destination perhaps. Being peacful brings more benefits. It gains you even more international support and even more leverage. If Israel actually had a peaceful neighbor in Gaza it would first start with more trade and more jobs cross border and then from there it would only get better.
This is how Israel currently operates with friendly countries so why would it be any different?

 

[odanny]

One thing to consider, the Jews have been thru this before, and they didn't win against the Romans, but neither did anyone else in 70 AD.

 

[odanny]

Being peacful brings more benefits. It gains you even more international support and even more leverage. If Israel actually had a peaceful neighbor in Gaza it would first start with more trade and more jobs cross border and then from there it would only get better.
This is how Israel currently operates with friendly countries so why would it be any different?

Those are all good points but Israel cannot give Gaza an independent port of sea access, for fear of weapons deliveries, and anyone else entering Gaza has to go thru Israel proper. Her neighbors, and anyone doing business there, would be a genuine security risk and Israel could never allow free passage.

Do you know that Israel does not stamp passports? Turns out other countries in the region would not allow entry if you had that stamp, so they have to give you a form that says you are allowed permission to visit there.

 

[badbob85037]

Those are all good points but Israel cannot give Gaza an independent port of sea access, for fear of weapons deliveries, and anyone else entering Gaza has to go thru Israel proper. Her neighbors, and anyone doing business there, would be a genuine security risk and Israel could never allow free passage.

Do you know that Israel does not stamp passports? Turns out other countries in the region would not allow entry if you had that stamp, so they have to give you a form that says you are allowed permission to visit there.

Don't make Hamas into something they are not. We have another name for them here in America, Murdering pedifiles. Only difference, they worship Mo and here it's Joe.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Why is Ottoman land renamed Palestinian?

Good question. I’ve noticed that the history of loud Palestinian activists is usually suspect…

And they always cut the graph off… Israelis occupied the land before the Muslim religion even existed

 

[peacefan]

The abhorrent and indefensible slaughter of civilians is not acceptable by any means, no matter how dire ones plight, and regardless of the level of suffering in the Gaza Strip, that can agreed upon by all rational adults, and for the purpose of this thread, we can all find common ground here.

But what happens if they never had of once staged an intifada since 2000? What would have changed about their situation between then, and now?

Can you see it thru the eyes of your enemy? Can Israel?

Life would have gone on as usual for Israel, had there have been no rockets lobbed across the walls and barb wire that seperate them from Gaza, right? More likely, it has anyway, as that has become the new normal from inside their own country. I'm just wondering if people would have thought that it would have been better for them to act docile and accept their fate, or do they fight for what they believe in?

I bet we all have some common ancestors who fought against real (or perceived) injustice in the history of this country, there was a time when taxation without representation was severe enough for men to take up arms and declare their independence as a free people, but a war against the British was a war against ones relatives and ancestors, far different than the level of hatred that exists surrounding Israel.

I'm wondering what actual actions could have been taken by people inside of Gaza that coud have worked to relieve their suffering? A diplomatic agreement? After Israel continues to expand, year over year, could they feel as though bargaining is in good conscience?

This truly seems a problem with no solution, neither side will yield. One side is desperate, and the "rules" of normal, civilized bahvior do not apply to them, and that does not bode well for Israel, and is what gives everyone in this country a sense of dread that there is no solution, other than the ones employed in the past.

I'm also concerned American Christianity wants to get involved, militarily, and that would not bode well for America. We give them all the weapons they want already.

View attachment 842609

well, this is very simple : they should've used the aid money for peaceful purposes, not to build military assets - they can't win with force.
using force against the Israelis drives the proverbial cat into a corner, and then that 'cat' strikes with asymetrical warfare - leading to the current seemingly endless (generational!) cycle of violence.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

The abhorrent and indefensible slaughter of civilians is not acceptable by any means, no matter how dire ones plight, and regardless of the level of suffering in the Gaza Strip, that can agreed upon by all rational adults, and for the purpose of this thread, we can all find common ground here.

But what happens if they never had of once staged an intifada since 2000? What would have changed about their situation between then, and now?

Can you see it thru the eyes of your enemy? Can Israel?

Life would have gone on as usual for Israel, had there have been no rockets lobbed across the walls and barb wire that seperate them from Gaza, right? More likely, it has anyway, as that has become the new normal from inside their own country. I'm just wondering if people would have thought that it would have been better for them to act docile and accept their fate, or do they fight for what they believe in?

I bet we all have some common ancestors who fought against real (or perceived) injustice in the history of this country, there was a time when taxation without representation was severe enough for men to take up arms and declare their independence as a free people, but a war against the British was a war against ones relatives and ancestors, far different than the level of hatred that exists surrounding Israel.

I'm wondering what actual actions could have been taken by people inside of Gaza that coud have worked to relieve their suffering? A diplomatic agreement? After Israel continues to expand, year over year, could they feel as though bargaining is in good conscience?

This truly seems a problem with no solution, neither side will yield. One side is desperate, and the "rules" of normal, civilized bahvior do not apply to them, and that does not bode well for Israel, and is what gives everyone in this country a sense of dread that there is no solution, other than the ones employed in the past.

I'm also concerned American Christianity wants to get involved, militarily, and that would not bode well for America. We give them all the weapons they want already.

View attachment 842609

The lost land was 100% due to Arab aggression.

 

[surada]

Good question. I’ve noticed that the history of loud Palestinian activists is usually suspect…

And they always cut the graph off… Israelis occupied the land before the Muslim religion even existed

It's Syria Palestine since 500 BC according to the Greek historian Herodotus.

Arabs have been in Palestine since the Babylonian exile...long before Islam.

 

[surada]

Look how large Bahrain and Qatar are. Size is not whats inmortant. IF Gaza was peaceful, for one, they could have attracted outside investment, become a tourist destination perhaps. Being peacful brings more benefits. It gains you even more international support and even more leverage. If Israel actually had a peaceful neighbor in Gaza it would first start with more trade and more jobs cross border and then from there it would only get better.
This is how Israel currently operates with friendly countries so why would it be any different?

Most Gazans weren't born there. Most were forced out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

It's Syria Palestine since 500 BC according to the Greek historian Herodotus.

Arabs have been in Palestine since the Babylonian exile...long before Islam.

Rome assigned the area “Palestine” to mock the Jews.

But Jews were there in 2000+ BC

 

[rosends]

Fun with maps...

The Mendacious Maps of Palestinian “Loss” - The Tower

It's a common anti-Israel trope, illustrated in maps: Over the past century, perfidious Zionists have slowly and steadily taken land from the Palestinians. SHANY MOR takes apart the lie—and reveals the hate behind it.

www.thetower.org

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

Israelis occupied the land before the Muslim religion even existed

If you take that line of logic we should give Georgia back to the Cherokee and Australia to the Abos.

If some guy in a head dress showed up at your house and told you that his greatX8 grandfather Chief Wompom had his lodge house on that very spot, would you sign the deed over to him?

Ooh! ooh! I'll answer...No...no.

However, this silliness only seems to apply to the Jews.

Why is that?

It is an idiot's argument that only idiots will accept.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

If you take that line of logic we should give Georgia back to the Cherokee and Australia to the Abos.

If some guy in a head dress showed up at your house and told you that his greatX8 grandfather Chief Wompom had his lodge house on that very spot, would you sign the deed over to him?

Ooh! ooh! I'll answer...No...no.

However, this silliness only seems to apply to the Jews.

Why is that?

It is an idiot's argument that only idiots will accept.

I agree it’s flawed logic, because it’s the logic the palestinian activists use, and I just use it momentarily to show them how ridiculous it is

 

[badbob85037]

CarlinAnnArbor But it is acceptable if it is done by the Muslim gutter religion where you can rape little girls, murder your enemy, and mutilate your woman. All in God's name.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The abhorrent and indefensible slaughter of civilians is not acceptable by any means, no matter how dire ones plight, and regardless of the level of suffering in the Gaza Strip, that can agreed upon by all rational adults, and for the purpose of this thread, we can all find common ground here.

But what happens if they never had of once staged an intifada since 2000? What would have changed about their situation between then, and now?

Can you see it thru the eyes of your enemy? Can Israel?

Life would have gone on as usual for Israel, had there have been no rockets lobbed across the walls and barb wire that seperate them from Gaza, right? More likely, it has anyway, as that has become the new normal from inside their own country. I'm just wondering if people would have thought that it would have been better for them to act docile and accept their fate, or do they fight for what they believe in?

I bet we all have some common ancestors who fought against real (or perceived) injustice in the history of this country, there was a time when taxation without representation was severe enough for men to take up arms and declare their independence as a free people, but a war against the British was a war against ones relatives and ancestors, far different than the level of hatred that exists surrounding Israel.

I'm wondering what actual actions could have been taken by people inside of Gaza that coud have worked to relieve their suffering? A diplomatic agreement? After Israel continues to expand, year over year, could they feel as though bargaining is in good conscience?

This truly seems a problem with no solution, neither side will yield. One side is desperate, and the "rules" of normal, civilized bahvior do not apply to them, and that does not bode well for Israel, and is what gives everyone in this country a sense of dread that there is no solution, other than the ones employed in the past.

I'm also concerned American Christianity wants to get involved, militarily, and that would not bode well for America. We give them all the weapons they want already.

View attachment 842609

Name the first king or ruler of Palestine?

 

[badbob85037]

Name the first king or ruler of Palestine?

Imagine being a couple million people surrounded by billions of people all members of a gutter religion that want to murder you, wipe you off the face of the Earth. A religion founded by a murdering child raping pedafile sworn to murder anyone not with the same beliefs as they. This religion does not preach the love of God but pure hate and evil capable of acts most humans would be unable to carry out. This religion butchers women and children as it knows better than God. To believe this religion has anything to do with God is a delusion. Even people not believing in God have some sort of morals. If there is a devil this religion worships him. I see no reason to believe in pure evil, the killing of innocents and it will not get you into the kingdom of Heaven which these crazed killers will realize at their death.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Imagine being a couple million people surrounded by billions of people all members of a gutter religion that want to murder you, wipe you off the face of the Earth. A religion founded by a murdering child raping pedafile sworn to murder anyone not with the same beliefs as they. This religion does not preach the love of God but pure hate and evil capable of acts most humans would be unable to carry out. This religion butchers women and children as it knows better than God. To believe this religion has anything to do with God is a delusion. Even people not believing in God have some sort of morals. If there is a devil this religion worships him. I see no reason to believe in pure evil, the killing of innocents and it will not get you into the kingdom of Heaven which these crazed killers will realize at their death.

Name the first King or ruler of Palestine? It's not that hard. Who was it?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

If you take that line of logic we should give Georgia back to the Cherokee and Australia to the Abos.

If some guy in a head dress showed up at your house and told you that his greatX8 grandfather Chief Wompom had his lodge house on that very spot, would you sign the deed over to him?

Ooh! ooh! I'll answer...No...no.

However, this silliness only seems to apply to the Jews.

Why is that?

It is an idiot's argument that only idiots will accept.

If some moron turned up at your door and told you that God gave him your house what would you do ?