CDZ Students Demand Removal of White Authors; Why is this not Condemned as Racist?

[Coyote]

If they start removing books on the basis of author skin color THEN I will be pissed. But that isn’t happening.

I think it is happening --- because if you remove half the whites from the curriculum you also remove all the textbooks they write, and nobody buys them. That's book banning. Indeed, that's what these types want: certain authors and books BANNED.

No, it isn’t the same as book banning. There are thousands of classics and quality books not in the curriculum. If not including people equals banning, are banning works by minority authors by not including them?

 

[Coyote]

Straight, white males represent significantly less than 50% of the population.

Students ask that straight, white, male autors constitute no more than 50% of the required reading so as to end the long-standing tradition of straight, white, male over-representation.

Yeah, but whites are the only good writers and scholars. Have you READ some of the awful stuff coming from these marginal types? I have. Not productive.

I have read marginal crap from white writers too. The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color.

Our curriculum included such classics as Raisin in the Sun.

More recent top notch works include works by Maya Angelou, The Color Purple, and many more.

 

[Circe]

No, it isn’t the same as book banning. There are thousands of classics and quality books not in the curriculum. If not including people equals banning, are banning works by minority authors by not including them?

Okay, not a bad point. These books are pretty awful, however: I've read two of them and they are the pits. So the idea is to ban quality books by white males and females and instead prefer lousy books by blacks.

It is probably time to get rid of the whole college credentialism business. After all, universities were only for real scholars early on within our lifetime, not for credentialing --- everyone who could get through. If they have to get credentialed by studying "black studies" and "queer studies" and awful thing like that, that's a serious waste and corruption of four years of life. Better just set kids to work at once upon graduation from high school.

 

[Circe]

I have read marginal crap from white writers too. The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color,

The smarter the better, for writers. I have not seen many (any) good black writers. Maybe Thomas Sowell.

First, let them perform. THEN I'll admire their good writing. Not, not just because they are black.

 

[Coyote]

No, it isn’t the same as book banning. There are thousands of classics and quality books not in the curriculum. If not including people equals banning, are banning works by minority authors by not including them?

Okay, not a bad point. These books are pretty awful, however: I've read two of them and they are the pits. So the idea is to ban quality books by white males and females and instead prefer lousy books by blacks.

It is probably time to get rid of the whole college credentialism business. After all, universities were only for real scholars early on within our lifetime, not for credentialing --- everyone who could get through. If they have to get credentialed by studying "black studies" and "queer studies" and awful thing like that, that's a serious waste and corruption of four years of life. Better just set kids to work at once upon graduation from high school.

What makes a book good or bad? There are some “classics” I don’t care for, but others love.

 

[Coyote]

I have read marginal crap from white writers too. The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color,

The smarter the better, for writers. I have not seen many (any) good black writers. Maybe Thomas Sowell.

First, let them perform. THEN I'll admire their good writing. Not, not just because they are black.

You never read Raisin in the Sun? Maya Angelou? Most books I read (and I love to read) I don’t know the writers color.

 

[Coyote]

No, it isn’t the same as book banning. There are thousands of classics and quality books not in the curriculum. If not including people equals banning, are banning works by minority authors by not including them?

Okay, not a bad point. These books are pretty awful, however: I've read two of them and they are the pits. So the idea is to ban quality books by white males and females and instead prefer lousy books by blacks.

It is probably time to get rid of the whole college credentialism business. After all, universities were only for real scholars early on within our lifetime, not for credentialing --- everyone who could get through. If they have to get credentialed by studying "black studies" and "queer studies" and awful thing like that, that's a serious waste and corruption of four years of life. Better just set kids to work at once upon graduation from high school.

I think we have room for both practical skills and jobs based and intellectual. Nothing wrong with either path.

 

[Circe]

What makes a book good or bad? There are some “classics” I don’t care for, but others love.

I can answer that: I read a scifi or maybe horror book by black Walter Moseley some years ago. It had quite a good plot line: this (black) guy would answer the phone and his dead father would be talking. Okay, that was creepy, good. But then he developed the character, who was supposedly a neurosurgeon who was downed by white politics someway (yeah, sure), major pity-party, and had to work instead carrying pots to and from the kiln for his black potter girlfriend who gave him some money for it. I got REALLY tired of the wailing about how Whitey done him wrong and gave up reading the book. Whites can write bad books, too, but -------- they write a WHOLE lot more bad books than blacks. The only other black writer of sci-fi/horror I know is Butler, and I haven't gotten to her yet: the plotline looks real racial, and I don't read for that.

Writing protags you absolutely cannot identify with makes a bad book: like the current spate of women's thrillers that make the protag a hopeless drunk. Why they think I'd want to identify with that, I can't imagine.

 

[Coyote]

What makes a book good or bad? There are some “classics” I don’t care for, but others love.

I can answer that: I read a scifi or maybe horror book by black Walter Moseley some years ago. It had quite a good plot line: this (black) guy would answer the phone and his dead father would be talking. Okay, that was creepy, good. But then he developed the character, who was supposedly a neurosurgeon who was downed by white politics someway (yeah, sure), major pity-party, and had to work instead carrying pots to and from the kiln for his black potter girlfriend who gave him some money for it. I got REALLY tired of the wailing about how Whitey done him wrong and gave up reading the book. Whites can write bad books, too, but -------- they write a WHOLE lot more bad books than blacks. The only other black writer of sci-fi/horror I know is Butler, and I haven't gotten to her yet: the plotline looks real racial, and I don't read for that.

Writing protags you absolutely cannot identify with makes a bad book: like the current spate of women's thrillers that make the protag a hopeless drunk. Why they think I'd want to identify with that, I can't imagine.

Octavia Butler? I have seen her books but haven’t read them. I like Sci Fi also and I like mysteries. But there Will books, good books, where we individually just don’t identify with the protagonist, but others do.

 

[Circe]

I have read marginal crap from white writers too. The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color,

The smarter the better, for writers. I have not seen many (any) good black writers. Maybe Thomas Sowell.

First, let them perform. THEN I'll admire their good writing. Not, not just because they are black.

You never read Raisin in the Sun? Maya Angelou? Most books I read (and I love to read) I don’t know the writers color.

No, I never read those. And no one reads more than I do: I have data on that. I have to say, "Raisin in the Sun" sounds VERY racial: not what I'm after.

I like your concept of don't know the color: in my experience, black writers simply can't do that (except for linguist John McWhorter, who MUST have been raised by whites: just listen to him.). The others always write about race: not of interest.

But some of the great Hollywood black stars are not about race -- the color is not what it's about at all. Morgan Freeman, who regularly plays God, and Samuel L. Jackson -- I don't know how they do it, but they make themselves Everyman. They've figured it out, and so they have long and useful careers. Also the director of "Get Out," Jordan Peele --- the movie SEEMS to be about race, but it isn't, somehow. One -- even me -- identifies instantly with the dark black male protag. Great movie; I've watched it several times. Yeah, the people who can write or perform for everyone, like the black rock bands in the 50s and 60s, will be loved forever --- the ones who whale away at whites, hating us, fergettaboudem.

 

[Circe]

You mean the ROMAN Aurelius Hipponensis? He wasn't African. There are paintings of what He looked like. He was Roman.

Augustine of Hippo (/ɔːˈɡʌstɪn/; 13 November 354 – 28 August 430 AD)[22] was a Roman African, early Christian theologian and Neoplatonic philosopher from Numidia whose writings influenced the development of the Western Church and Western philosophy, and indirectly all of Western Christianity. He was the bishop of Hippo Regius in North Africa and is viewed as one of the most important Church Fathers of the Latin Church for his writings in the Patristic Period. Among his most important works are The City of God, De doctrina Christiana, and Confessions.

​

And I honestly do not care if he was black or not.

He wasn't black! He was a Roman. Romans held all of North Africa for a long time, until nearly the Fall of Rome (476). This is like saying that writers in the 20th century from Rhodesia or South Africa were black because that's Africa. No, they'd be British colonists, of course. That would be like saying Romans were Jewish because they held Palestine for so long. No, they weren't. They were Romans.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color.

.

If you actually believed this statement you just made, you would be AGANST the racial quotas the authoritarian students are demanding, not for them.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I have read marginal crap from white writers too. The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color,

The smarter the better, for writers. I have not seen many (any) good black writers. Maybe Thomas Sowell.

First, let them perform. THEN I'll admire their good writing. Not, not just because they are black.

You never read Raisin in the Sun? Maya Angelou? Most books I read (and I love to read) I don’t know the writers color.

And they have nothing to do with the development of western civilization either. If you want a course to deal with modern literature go teach one.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I have read marginal crap from white writers too. The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color,

The smarter the better, for writers. I have not seen many (any) good black writers. Maybe Thomas Sowell.

First, let them perform. THEN I'll admire their good writing. Not, not just because they are black.

You never read Raisin in the Sun? Maya Angelou? Most books I read (and I love to read) I don’t know the writers color.

No, I never read those. And no one reads more than I do: I have data on that. I have to say, "Raisin in the Sun" sounds VERY racial: not what I'm after.

I like your concept of don't know the color: in my experience, black writers simply can't do that (except for linguist John McWhorter, who MUST have been raised by whites: just listen to him.). The others always write about race: not of interest.

But some of the great Hollywood black stars are not about race -- the color is not what it's about at all. Morgan Freeman, who regularly plays God, and Samuel L. Jackson -- I don't know how they do it, but they make themselves Everyman. They've figured it out, and so they have long and useful careers. Also the director of "Get Out," Jordan Peele --- the movie SEEMS to be about race, but it isn't, somehow. One -- even me -- identifies instantly with the dark black male protag. Great movie; I've watched it several times. Yeah, the people who can write or perform for everyone, like the black rock bands in the 50s and 60s, will be loved forever --- the ones who whale away at whites, hating us, fergettaboudem.

As laudable as these black actors and directors are they have nothing whatsoever to do with the development of western civilization.

 

[Circe]

As laudable as these black actors and directors are they have nothing whatsoever to do with the development of western civilization.

Well...…..they have some part in the CURRENT development, surely. Not the past development.

 

[Coyote]

The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color.

.

If you actually believed this statement you just made, you would be AGANST the racial quotas the authoritarian students are demanding, not for them.

If it's about "quotas" - no, I don't support that. But likewise - if it's protesting the inclusion of more authors of diverse backgrounds - what is wrong with that as long as there is quality - there are many authors who are excellent and worth exploring - the greater the diversity, the broader the spectrum of good literature that students are exposed to.

I wouldn't be so quick to classify the students as "authoritarian" simply for demanding greater inclusion of non white non male authors in the selections.

 

[Coyote]

I have read marginal crap from white writers too. The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color,

The smarter the better, for writers. I have not seen many (any) good black writers. Maybe Thomas Sowell.

First, let them perform. THEN I'll admire their good writing. Not, not just because they are black.

You never read Raisin in the Sun? Maya Angelou? Most books I read (and I love to read) I don’t know the writers color.

And they have nothing to do with the development of western civilization either. If you want a course to deal with modern literature go teach one.

Sure they do. You act as if the Western Civilization is developed. It
is ongoing.

 

[Coyote]

I have read marginal crap from white writers too. The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color,

The smarter the better, for writers. I have not seen many (any) good black writers. Maybe Thomas Sowell.

First, let them perform. THEN I'll admire their good writing. Not, not just because they are black.

You never read Raisin in the Sun? Maya Angelou? Most books I read (and I love to read) I don’t know the writers color.

No, I never read those. And no one reads more than I do: I have data on that. I have to say, "Raisin in the Sun" sounds VERY racial: not what I'm after.

I like your concept of don't know the color: in my experience, black writers simply can't do that (except for linguist John McWhorter, who MUST have been raised by whites: just listen to him.). The others always write about race: not of interest.

But some of the great Hollywood black stars are not about race -- the color is not what it's about at all. Morgan Freeman, who regularly plays God, and Samuel L. Jackson -- I don't know how they do it, but they make themselves Everyman. They've figured it out, and so they have long and useful careers. Also the director of "Get Out," Jordan Peele --- the movie SEEMS to be about race, but it isn't, somehow. One -- even me -- identifies instantly with the dark black male protag. Great movie; I've watched it several times. Yeah, the people who can write or perform for everyone, like the black rock bands in the 50s and 60s, will be loved forever --- the ones who whale away at whites, hating us, fergettaboudem.

I graduated high school in 77...Raisin in the Sun was a classic, very well written.

Writers - black and white, and any other - write through the lens of their own experience. In a novel, a black author, or a Scottish author, or a Swedish author (I like Swedish mysteries too) will often bring his own experience, cultural background, etc into the book. White American authors do it - we just don't recognize it because it's an experience we, as whites in America tend to share - it's familiar. IMO>

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I have read marginal crap from white writers too. The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color,

The smarter the better, for writers. I have not seen many (any) good black writers. Maybe Thomas Sowell.

First, let them perform. THEN I'll admire their good writing. Not, not just because they are black.

You never read Raisin in the Sun? Maya Angelou? Most books I read (and I love to read) I don’t know the writers color.

And they have nothing to do with the development of western civilization either. If you want a course to deal with modern literature go teach one.

Sure they do. You act as if the Western Civilization is developed. It
is ongoing.

No it's developed. The study of the development of western civilization is the study of the early Greek and Romans. Some include the middle ages up through the Age of Enlightenment. I don't know of any studies of the development of western civilization that goes up to or past the Industrial revolution. You are confusing the development of western culture with history. It's not the same thing for the same reasons that Classical Literature does not include the writings of Malcolm X.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The ability to write well or bad,y has nothing to do with skin color.

.

If you actually believed this statement you just made, you would be AGANST the racial quotas the authoritarian students are demanding, not for them.

If it's about "quotas" - no, I don't support that. But likewise - if it's protesting the inclusion of more authors of diverse backgrounds - what is wrong with that as long as there is quality - there are many authors who are excellent and worth exploring - the greater the diversity, the broader the spectrum of good literature that students are exposed to.

I wouldn't be so quick to classify the students as "authoritarian" simply for demanding greater inclusion of non white non male authors in the selections.

They are completely and totally wrong. Non white authors have no place in a course on western civilization. The students are woke ignoramuses.