Squashing The Ignorance. Republican Health Care Plans Exposed

[SFC Ollie]

The Public Option is little more than a stepping stone to Socialized healthcare. Why are Doctors against it? Ever seen how much a Doctor actually gets paid from Medicare? I had cataract surgery done. Cost about $1800 Medicare approved $675. How much of that do you think went into medical supplies, building costs (Electric etc.) and paying the staff? Not to mention half a dozen other things that have to be paid for. I would guess the good Doctor got to pocket next to nothing.

 

[Care4all]

The Public Option is little more than a stepping stone to Socialized healthcare. Why are Doctors against it? Ever seen how much a Doctor actually gets paid from Medicare? I had cataract surgery done. Cost about $1800 Medicare approved $675. How much of that do you think went into medical supplies, building costs (Electric etc.) and paying the staff? Not to mention half a dozen other things that have to be paid for. I would guess the good Doctor got to pocket next to nothing.

Do you think the Insurance company would pay the $1800 or a much lower negotiated price?

Do you think the private sector insurance companies WANT to insure in the private sector all of our medicare aged citizens?

Do you think the cost of ALL OF OUR private insurance would be MUCH HIGHER than the outrageous prices now if the private sector had to insure the elderly?

They were given a GIFT HORSE by the federal government when our govt agreed to take off of their hands, the insuring of the elderly....profit city from there on out for the private insurers....imo.

oh, and where did you read doctors were aAGAINST the public option? I thought they were for it?

 

[Navy1960]

How amusing that some would believe that this current legislation has anything whatsoever to do with healthcare reform. In the first place, this legislation will not lower the cost of premiums AT ALL , in fact what it will do is raise them 10 to 13% over the next 10 years according to the CBO. I fail to understand how anyone would think for one moment this legislation is healthcare reform when your actually taking money from an insolvent Govt. insurer to create another Govt. insurer to do the exact same thing that the insolvent one does. Further, this legislation piles , billions of unfunded mandates in state medicade on the states, I don't know if anyone has noticed lately but almost every state with the possible exception of perhaps Texas is close to bankruptcy now. Can you imagine what California will do once faced with the possibility of 15 billion dollars in unfunded mandates. Oh wait, I forgot, California has funding in the bill that most states , except La. don't have. The bottom line here is this, if the whole goal here is to actually reform healthcare then do it. This bill has little to do with that, call it what it is, a spending bill , don't disquise it and fool your base into thinking this is real reform when it has little to do with it. The real sad part about this is, that for the last 2 years democrats have done nothing but beat up on the insurance companies on how mean and how evil they are, just who do you think stands to make the most money in this deal? It's not the Govt. I can tell you that, I'm sure most of you are not foolish enough to think the Govt. actually runs Medicare, and forgive me I sure hope you don't think they have the capability to run the "public option" All of which will be contracted out like it always has to , you got it, the mean evil insurance industry. So again , I ask why are you supporting a bill that has nothing at all to do with healthcare reform.!!!

 

[SFC Ollie]

The Public Option is little more than a stepping stone to Socialized healthcare. Why are Doctors against it? Ever seen how much a Doctor actually gets paid from Medicare? I had cataract surgery done. Cost about $1800 Medicare approved $675. How much of that do you think went into medical supplies, building costs (Electric etc.) and paying the staff? Not to mention half a dozen other things that have to be paid for. I would guess the good Doctor got to pocket next to nothing.

Do you think the Insurance company would pay the $1800 or a much lower negotiated price?

Do you think the private sector insurance companies WANT to insure in the private sector all of our medicare aged citizens?

Do you think the cost of ALL OF OUR private insurance would be MUCH HIGHER than the outrageous prices now if the private sector had to insure the elderly?

They were given a GIFT HORSE by the federal government when our govt agreed to take off of their hands, the insuring of the elderly....profit city from there on out for the private insurers....imo.

oh, and where did you read doctors were aAGAINST the public option? I thought they were for it?

I believe the AMA made a statement backing Healthcare reform in General, but only about a third of our Doctors belong to the AMA. I haven't read that doctors are against it, But I can name 6 Doctors who are against it. Because they have told me so. And I only know 6 doctors. Add those to the ones others have said the same thing about.

And I would bet that private insurance would pay more than Medicare pays. Of course since I have never had private Insurance I won't swear to that.

 

[Polk]

How amusing that some would believe that this current legislation has anything whatsoever to do with healthcare reform. In the first place, this legislation will not lower the cost of premiums AT ALL , in fact what it will do is raise them 10 to 13% over the next 10 years according to the CBO.

Except that the CBO has said the bill will reduce premiums on average.
The Associated Press: CBO: Health bill would reduce premiums on average

I fail to understand how anyone would think for one moment this legislation is healthcare reform when your actually taking money from an insolvent Govt. insurer to create another Govt. insurer to do the exact same thing that the insolvent one does. Further, this legislation piles , billions of unfunded mandates in state medicade on the states, I don't know if anyone has noticed lately but almost every state with the possible exception of perhaps Texas is close to bankruptcy now. Can you imagine what California will do once faced with the possibility of 15 billion dollars in unfunded mandates. Oh wait, I forgot, California has funding in the bill that most states , except La. don't have.

The bill's Medicaid provisions increase the size of the block grants all states receive.

 

[Polk]

The Public Option is little more than a stepping stone to Socialized healthcare. Why are Doctors against it? Ever seen how much a Doctor actually gets paid from Medicare? I had cataract surgery done. Cost about $1800 Medicare approved $675. How much of that do you think went into medical supplies, building costs (Electric etc.) and paying the staff? Not to mention half a dozen other things that have to be paid for. I would guess the good Doctor got to pocket next to nothing.

Do you think the Insurance company would pay the $1800 or a much lower negotiated price?

Do you think the private sector insurance companies WANT to insure in the private sector all of our medicare aged citizens?

Do you think the cost of ALL OF OUR private insurance would be MUCH HIGHER than the outrageous prices now if the private sector had to insure the elderly?

They were given a GIFT HORSE by the federal government when our govt agreed to take off of their hands, the insuring of the elderly....profit city from there on out for the private insurers....imo.

oh, and where did you read doctors were aAGAINST the public option? I thought they were for it?

I believe the AMA made a statement backing Healthcare reform in General, but only about a third of our Doctors belong to the AMA. I haven't read that doctors are against it, But I can name 6 Doctors who are against it. Because they have told me so. And I only know 6 doctors. Add those to the ones others have said the same thing about.

The reason this argument is so weak is because at the beginning of the year, when the AMA was fighting tooth and nail against health care reform, Republicans were touting that as proof the reforms were a bad idea.

And I would bet that private insurance would pay more than Medicare pays. Of course since I have never had private Insurance I won't swear to that.

They do, because they don't have as much ability to negotiate prices.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Do you think the Insurance company would pay the $1800 or a much lower negotiated price?

Do you think the private sector insurance companies WANT to insure in the private sector all of our medicare aged citizens?

Do you think the cost of ALL OF OUR private insurance would be MUCH HIGHER than the outrageous prices now if the private sector had to insure the elderly?

They were given a GIFT HORSE by the federal government when our govt agreed to take off of their hands, the insuring of the elderly....profit city from there on out for the private insurers....imo.

oh, and where did you read doctors were aAGAINST the public option? I thought they were for it?

I believe the AMA made a statement backing Healthcare reform in General, but only about a third of our Doctors belong to the AMA. I haven't read that doctors are against it, But I can name 6 Doctors who are against it. Because they have told me so. And I only know 6 doctors. Add those to the ones others have said the same thing about.

The reason this argument is so weak is because at the beginning of the year, when the AMA was fighting tooth and nail against health care reform, Republicans were touting that as proof the reforms were a bad idea.

And I would bet that private insurance would pay more than Medicare pays. Of course since I have never had private Insurance I won't swear to that.

They do, because they don't have as much ability to negotiate prices.

So what did it cost to buy off the AMA? Because that's all this has been is a series of payouts and buy offs.

 

[Navy1960]

How amusing that some would believe that this current legislation has anything whatsoever to do with healthcare reform. In the first place, this legislation will not lower the cost of premiums AT ALL , in fact what it will do is raise them 10 to 13% over the next 10 years according to the CBO.

Except that the CBO has said the bill will reduce premiums on average.
The Associated Press: CBO: Health bill would reduce premiums on average

I fail to understand how anyone would think for one moment this legislation is healthcare reform when your actually taking money from an insolvent Govt. insurer to create another Govt. insurer to do the exact same thing that the insolvent one does. Further, this legislation piles , billions of unfunded mandates in state medicade on the states, I don't know if anyone has noticed lately but almost every state with the possible exception of perhaps Texas is close to bankruptcy now. Can you imagine what California will do once faced with the possibility of 15 billion dollars in unfunded mandates. Oh wait, I forgot, California has funding in the bill that most states , except La. don't have.

The bill's Medicaid provisions increase the size of the block grants all states receive.

Well the AP aside and I'm sure the press has it's experts, however.

Specifically, because of the greater actuarial value and broader scope of benefits that would be covered by new nongroup policies sold under the legislation, the average premium per person for those policies would be an estimated 27 percent to 30 percent higher than the average premium for nongroup policies under current law (with other factors held constant). The increase in actuarial value would push the average premium per person about 18 percent to 21 percent above its level under current law, before the increase in enrollees’ use of medical care resulting from lower cost sharing is considered; that induced increase,

The legislation would impose several new fees on firms in the health sector. New fees would be imposed on providers of health insurance and on manufacturers and importers of medical devices. Both of those fees would be largely passed through

Here is the kicker...

The requirement that people have insurance would also encourage a broad range of people to take up coverage in the exchanges. CBO and JCT expect that some people would obtain coverage because of the penalties that would be levied for not complying with the mandate (which would be $750 per adult and $375 per child in 2016) and that others would obtain coverage simply because of the existence of a mandate; those expectations are based in part on people’s compliance with other types of mandates.28

So let me see, your 22 years old on your own, and your faced with paying 1500.00 dollars a year for health insurance or paying a penalty. How many do you think are going to rush out and get the insurance as opposed to paying the penalty, even if it passes constitutional muster and even the CBO has called this provision into question and this basically is what they hinge all their cost savings on.
Congressional Budget Office - Home Page

About 59 million people are on Medicaid today—which means that a decade from now about a quarter of the total population would be on a program originally sold as help for low-income women, children and the disabled. State budgets would explode—by $37 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office—because they would no longer be allowed to set eligibility in line with their own decisions about taxes and spending. This is the mother—and father and crazy uncle—of unfunded mandates.

Medicaid Expansion Will Break State Budgets - WSJ.com


You do realize that a Block Grant is real money that is funding that has to come from some place so what your saying is that if it is not an unfunded mandate, then the bill is a medicaid bailout by the Fed for the states.

 

[Polk]

How amusing that some would believe that this current legislation has anything whatsoever to do with healthcare reform. In the first place, this legislation will not lower the cost of premiums AT ALL , in fact what it will do is raise them 10 to 13% over the next 10 years according to the CBO.

Except that the CBO has said the bill will reduce premiums on average.
The Associated Press: CBO: Health bill would reduce premiums on average

I fail to understand how anyone would think for one moment this legislation is healthcare reform when your actually taking money from an insolvent Govt. insurer to create another Govt. insurer to do the exact same thing that the insolvent one does. Further, this legislation piles , billions of unfunded mandates in state medicade on the states, I don't know if anyone has noticed lately but almost every state with the possible exception of perhaps Texas is close to bankruptcy now. Can you imagine what California will do once faced with the possibility of 15 billion dollars in unfunded mandates. Oh wait, I forgot, California has funding in the bill that most states , except La. don't have.

The bill's Medicaid provisions increase the size of the block grants all states receive.

Well the AP aside and I'm sure the press has it's experts, however.

Specifically, because of the greater actuarial value and broader scope of benefits that would be covered by new nongroup policies sold under the legislation, the average premium per person for those policies would be an estimated 27 percent to 30 percent higher than the average premium for nongroup policies under current law (with other factors held constant). The increase in actuarial value would push the average premium per person about 18 percent to 21 percent above its level under current law, before the increase in enrollees’ use of medical care resulting from lower cost sharing is considered; that induced increase,

The legislation would impose several new fees on firms in the health sector. New fees would be imposed on providers of health insurance and on manufacturers and importers of medical devices. Both of those fees would be largely passed through

Here is the kicker...

The requirement that people have insurance would also encourage a broad range of people to take up coverage in the exchanges. CBO and JCT expect that some people would obtain coverage because of the penalties that would be levied for not complying with the mandate (which would be $750 per adult and $375 per child in 2016) and that others would obtain coverage simply because of the existence of a mandate; those expectations are based in part on people’s compliance with other types of mandates.28

So let me see, your 22 years old on your own, and your faced with paying 1500.00 dollars a year for health insurance or paying a penalty. How many do you think are going to rush out and get the insurance as opposed to paying the penalty, even if it passes constitutional muster and even the CBO has called this provision into question and this basically is what they hinge all their cost savings on.
Congressional Budget Office - Home Page

Source?

About 59 million people are on Medicaid today—which means that a decade from now about a quarter of the total population would be on a program originally sold as help for low-income women, children and the disabled. State budgets would explode—by $37 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office—because they would no longer be allowed to set eligibility in line with their own decisions about taxes and spending. This is the mother—and father and crazy uncle—of unfunded mandates.

Medicaid Expansion Will Break State Budgets - WSJ.com


You do realize that a Block Grant is real money that is funding that has to come from some place so what your saying is that if it is not an unfunded mandate, then the bill is a medicaid bailout by the Fed for the states.

Medicaid is already financed by the federal government. Also, the op-ed you posted contradicts itself. It talks about expensive the expansion is and how much of a chunk of the total cost it is, then turns around in the next paragraph and claims it's unfunded.

 

[Care4all]

YouTube - A health care plan for America

here is a list of the bills the republicans introduced that the dems have shut down

Republican Health Care Plans shot down by the Democrat congress


H.R. 198 Health Care Tax Deduction Act
H.R. 502 Health Care Freedom of Choice Act
H.R. 544 Flexible Health Savings Act
H.R. 879 Affordable Health Care Expansion Act
H.R. 1891 Sunset of Life Protection Act
H.R. 2607 The Small Business Health Fairness Act
H.R. 3217 Health Care Choice Act
H.R. 3218 Improving Health Care for All Americans Act
H.R. 3508 Healthy Savings Act
H.R. 3821 Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3822 Improved Access to Employer Financed Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3823 Medicaid and SCHIP Beneficiary Choice Improvement Act
H.R. 3824 Expanded Health Insurance Options Act





Rooting Out Waste, Fraud, Abuse and Enhancing Transparency

H.R. 27 Medicare Fraud Prevention and Enforcement Act
R. 203 Medicare Fraud Prevention Act
H.R. 2249 Health Care Price Transparency Promotion Act
H.R. 2785 Health Care Paperwork Reduction and Fraud Prevention Act



Medical Liability Reform

H.R. 1086 Help Efficient, Accessible, Low-cost, Timely Healthcare Act
H.R. 1468 Medical Justice Act
H.R. 2787 Medical Liability Procedural Reform Act
H.R. 2975 Medical Practice Protection Act
H.R. 3372 Health Care Over Use Reform Today Act



Prevention/Wellness

H.R. 3468 Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act



Preserving Doctor/Patient Relationship

H.R. 2516 Medical Rights Act
H.R. 3002 Patients Act

One question I have that could have been answered already in the 4 pages of the thread is, how many Health care reform bills focused on cutting the cost of health care did the Republicans in Congress put up for a vote the 12 years they were in power in both the house and the senate and did any of them actually HELP, IF they had any....?

In other words Pilgrim, putting up these ideas when they KNOW they have no power to get them passed, as a minority is more than likely just political posturing and truly not something that is to be admired....imho.

 

[SFC Ollie]

YouTube - A health care plan for America

here is a list of the bills the republicans introduced that the dems have shut down

Republican Health Care Plans shot down by the Democrat congress


H.R. 198 Health Care Tax Deduction Act
H.R. 502 Health Care Freedom of Choice Act
H.R. 544 Flexible Health Savings Act
H.R. 879 Affordable Health Care Expansion Act
H.R. 1891 Sunset of Life Protection Act
H.R. 2607 The Small Business Health Fairness Act
H.R. 3217 Health Care Choice Act
H.R. 3218 Improving Health Care for All Americans Act
H.R. 3508 Healthy Savings Act
H.R. 3821 Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3822 Improved Access to Employer Financed Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3823 Medicaid and SCHIP Beneficiary Choice Improvement Act
H.R. 3824 Expanded Health Insurance Options Act





Rooting Out Waste, Fraud, Abuse and Enhancing Transparency

H.R. 27 Medicare Fraud Prevention and Enforcement Act
R. 203 Medicare Fraud Prevention Act
H.R. 2249 Health Care Price Transparency Promotion Act
H.R. 2785 Health Care Paperwork Reduction and Fraud Prevention Act



Medical Liability Reform

H.R. 1086 Help Efficient, Accessible, Low-cost, Timely Healthcare Act
H.R. 1468 Medical Justice Act
H.R. 2787 Medical Liability Procedural Reform Act
H.R. 2975 Medical Practice Protection Act
H.R. 3372 Health Care Over Use Reform Today Act



Prevention/Wellness

H.R. 3468 Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act



Preserving Doctor/Patient Relationship

H.R. 2516 Medical Rights Act
H.R. 3002 Patients Act

One question I have that could have been answered already in the 4 pages of the thread is, how many Health care reform bills focused on cutting the cost of health care did the Republicans in Congress put up for a vote the 12 years they were in power in both the house and the senate and did any of them actually HELP, IF they had any....?

In other words Pilgrim, putting up these ideas when they KNOW they have no power to get them passed, as a minority is more than likely just political posturing and truly not something that is to be admired....imho.

Maybe the Republicans weren't interested in controlling the public.

 

[Care4all]

YouTube - A health care plan for America

here is a list of the bills the republicans introduced that the dems have shut down

Republican Health Care Plans shot down by the Democrat congress


H.R. 198 Health Care Tax Deduction Act
H.R. 502 Health Care Freedom of Choice Act
H.R. 544 Flexible Health Savings Act
H.R. 879 Affordable Health Care Expansion Act
H.R. 1891 Sunset of Life Protection Act
H.R. 2607 The Small Business Health Fairness Act
H.R. 3217 Health Care Choice Act
H.R. 3218 Improving Health Care for All Americans Act
H.R. 3508 Healthy Savings Act
H.R. 3821 Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3822 Improved Access to Employer Financed Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3823 Medicaid and SCHIP Beneficiary Choice Improvement Act
H.R. 3824 Expanded Health Insurance Options Act





Rooting Out Waste, Fraud, Abuse and Enhancing Transparency

H.R. 27 Medicare Fraud Prevention and Enforcement Act
R. 203 Medicare Fraud Prevention Act
H.R. 2249 Health Care Price Transparency Promotion Act
H.R. 2785 Health Care Paperwork Reduction and Fraud Prevention Act



Medical Liability Reform

H.R. 1086 Help Efficient, Accessible, Low-cost, Timely Healthcare Act
H.R. 1468 Medical Justice Act
H.R. 2787 Medical Liability Procedural Reform Act
H.R. 2975 Medical Practice Protection Act
H.R. 3372 Health Care Over Use Reform Today Act



Prevention/Wellness

H.R. 3468 Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act



Preserving Doctor/Patient Relationship

H.R. 2516 Medical Rights Act
H.R. 3002 Patients Act

One question I have that could have been answered already in the 4 pages of the thread is, how many Health care reform bills focused on cutting the cost of health care did the Republicans in Congress put up for a vote the 12 years they were in power in both the house and the senate and did any of them actually HELP, IF they had any....?

In other words Pilgrim, putting up these ideas when they KNOW they have no power to get them passed, as a minority is more than likely just political posturing and truly not something that is to be admired....imho.

Maybe the Republicans weren't interested in controlling the public.

But they are now? Why all of these bills that Plymco is touting? Is this just political posturing for the republican citizenry to grab on to to ACT like those republicans in Congress are actually trying to do something???

Does that bother you at all....?

As I said, that's honestly nothing to be admired imo....

care

 

[SFC Ollie]

One question I have that could have been answered already in the 4 pages of the thread is, how many Health care reform bills focused on cutting the cost of health care did the Republicans in Congress put up for a vote the 12 years they were in power in both the house and the senate and did any of them actually HELP, IF they had any....?

In other words Pilgrim, putting up these ideas when they KNOW they have no power to get them passed, as a minority is more than likely just political posturing and truly not something that is to be admired....imho.

Maybe the Republicans weren't interested in controlling the public.

But they are now? Why all of these bills that Plymco is touting? Is this just political posturing for the republican citizenry to grab on to to ACT like those republicans in Congress are actually trying to do something???

Does that bother you at all....?

As I said, that's honestly nothing to be admired imo....

care

Honestly I haven't read them all. However I have little doubt that they are mostly an attempt to lessen the damage being done by the left.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

YouTube - A health care plan for America

here is a list of the bills the republicans introduced that the dems have shut down

Republican Health Care Plans shot down by the Democrat congress


H.R. 198 Health Care Tax Deduction Act
H.R. 502 Health Care Freedom of Choice Act
H.R. 544 Flexible Health Savings Act
H.R. 879 Affordable Health Care Expansion Act
H.R. 1891 Sunset of Life Protection Act
H.R. 2607 The Small Business Health Fairness Act
H.R. 3217 Health Care Choice Act
H.R. 3218 Improving Health Care for All Americans Act
H.R. 3508 Healthy Savings Act
H.R. 3821 Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3822 Improved Access to Employer Financed Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3823 Medicaid and SCHIP Beneficiary Choice Improvement Act
H.R. 3824 Expanded Health Insurance Options Act





Rooting Out Waste, Fraud, Abuse and Enhancing Transparency

H.R. 27 Medicare Fraud Prevention and Enforcement Act
R. 203 Medicare Fraud Prevention Act
H.R. 2249 Health Care Price Transparency Promotion Act
H.R. 2785 Health Care Paperwork Reduction and Fraud Prevention Act



Medical Liability Reform

H.R. 1086 Help Efficient, Accessible, Low-cost, Timely Healthcare Act
H.R. 1468 Medical Justice Act
H.R. 2787 Medical Liability Procedural Reform Act
H.R. 2975 Medical Practice Protection Act
H.R. 3372 Health Care Over Use Reform Today Act



Prevention/Wellness

H.R. 3468 Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act



Preserving Doctor/Patient Relationship

H.R. 2516 Medical Rights Act
H.R. 3002 Patients Act

One question I have that could have been answered already in the 4 pages of the thread is, how many Health care reform bills focused on cutting the cost of health care did the Republicans in Congress put up for a vote the 12 years they were in power in both the house and the senate and did any of them actually HELP, IF they had any....?

In other words Pilgrim, putting up these ideas when they KNOW they have no power to get them passed, as a minority is more than likely just political posturing and truly not something that is to be admired....imho.

The same amount that the democrats put up during the same time period. .

Doesn't change the fact that those who claim the republicans have no plans are bold-faced, partisan hack, liars.

 

[Care4all]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRJJRTT4HUA&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - A health care plan for America[/ame]

here is a list of the bills the republicans introduced that the dems have shut down

Republican Health Care Plans shot down by the Democrat congress


H.R. 198 Health Care Tax Deduction Act
H.R. 502 Health Care Freedom of Choice Act
H.R. 544 Flexible Health Savings Act
H.R. 879 Affordable Health Care Expansion Act
H.R. 1891 Sunset of Life Protection Act
H.R. 2607 The Small Business Health Fairness Act
H.R. 3217 Health Care Choice Act
H.R. 3218 Improving Health Care for All Americans Act
H.R. 3508 Healthy Savings Act
H.R. 3821 Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3822 Improved Access to Employer Financed Health Insurance Act
H.R. 3823

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

One question I have that could have been answered already in the 4 pages of the thread is, how many Health care reform bills focused on cutting the cost of health care did the Republicans in Congress put up for a vote the 12 years they were in power in both the house and the senate and did any of them actually HELP, IF they had any....?

In other words Pilgrim, putting up these ideas when they KNOW they have no power to get them passed, as a minority is more than likely just political posturing and truly not something that is to be admired....imho.

The same amount that the democrats put up during the same time period. .

Doesn't change the fact that those who claim the republicans have no plans are bold-faced, partisan hack, liars.

I respectfully disagree. The Democrats put up one of the most extensive, Patient Bill of Rights during that period and the republicans shot it down, if memory serves.

And putting up a bill in congress that THEY KNOW in every manner.... does not stand a chance of passing or even making it to the house floor for a vote, is NOTHING but fiddle fodder...

NOTHING.... that can be taken seriously, and only some sort of political posturing imo....they pulled you in good didn't they...? Got you to believe they are trying to help Americans with their health care problems now didn't they?

WHILE NEVER having to do a thing to actually help the American people or protect the American people from the Insurance companies....What they are doing now at the LAST MINUTE is a dog and pony show, nothing more....

You say these bills are a Health Care plan of the republicans....then how does it score? What will all of these bills COST the tax payer and what will all of these bills SAVE the tax payer? Or, what will all of these bills do to actually reduce the cost of health care while covering more citizens with health care that are uninsured now?

You guys scream from the roof tops and go over the Dem Reform bill with a fine tooth comb, dissecting every little word....

while YOU just post the header of the republican bills and TRUST THEM enough to believe the tittle of their Bill is going to actually help our situation? Why post this thread, without posting the details and giving them the scrutiny you gave their opposition?

This is what I do not understand?

Ollie, is correct on this imo...he sees it, for what it is....imo...PP.

Care

I read the bills care, they are effective. Go through and read my posts in the thread, you have me pegged wrong.

 

[Care4all]

The same amount that the democrats put up during the same time period. .

Doesn't change the fact that those who claim the republicans have no plans are bold-faced, partisan hack, liars.

I respectfully disagree. The Democrats put up one of the most extensive, Patient Bill of Rights during that period and the republicans shot it down, if memory serves.

And putting up a bill in congress that THEY KNOW in every manner.... does not stand a chance of passing or even making it to the house floor for a vote, is NOTHING but fiddle fodder...

NOTHING.... that can be taken seriously, and only some sort of political posturing imo....they pulled you in good didn't they...? Got you to believe they are trying to help Americans with their health care problems now didn't they?

WHILE NEVER having to do a thing to actually help the American people or protect the American people from the Insurance companies....What they are doing now at the LAST MINUTE is a dog and pony show, nothing more....

You say these bills are a Health Care plan of the republicans....then how does it score? What will all of these bills COST the tax payer and what will all of these bills SAVE the tax payer? Or, what will all of these bills do to actually reduce the cost of health care while covering more citizens with health care that are uninsured now?

You guys scream from the roof tops and go over the Dem Reform bill with a fine tooth comb, dissecting every little word....

while YOU just post the header of the republican bills and TRUST THEM enough to believe the tittle of their Bill is going to actually help our situation? Why post this thread, without posting the details and giving them the scrutiny you gave their opposition?

This is what I do not understand?

Ollie, is correct on this imo...he sees it, for what it is....imo...PP.

Care

I read the bills care, they are effective. Go through and read my posts in the thread, you have me pegged wrong.

I was being lazy and trying to avoid reading the 4 pages of the thread PP, and if you say the bills and proposals are good ones, how many of these proposals are addressed in the Democratic Comprehensive bill on health reform as well?

See, I do not agree with doing this piece meal because we don't know what all the reforms will cost us on the whole, when all reforms are said and done....and what savings may come out of them.

And I am not saying that I support the 2 comprehensive Democratic proposals that are on the table now....because I do not support the way the bills came out from the senate and house....for several reasons now....but I still believe that it needs to be one comprehensive bill so it can be scored and we know upfront what ALL of health care reform entails and the estimated cost of such and how it will be paid for...and how it will help us.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I respectfully disagree. The Democrats put up one of the most extensive, Patient Bill of Rights during that period and the republicans shot it down, if memory serves.

And putting up a bill in congress that THEY KNOW in every manner.... does not stand a chance of passing or even making it to the house floor for a vote, is NOTHING but fiddle fodder...

NOTHING.... that can be taken seriously, and only some sort of political posturing imo....they pulled you in good didn't they...? Got you to believe they are trying to help Americans with their health care problems now didn't they?

WHILE NEVER having to do a thing to actually help the American people or protect the American people from the Insurance companies....What they are doing now at the LAST MINUTE is a dog and pony show, nothing more....

You say these bills are a Health Care plan of the republicans....then how does it score? What will all of these bills COST the tax payer and what will all of these bills SAVE the tax payer? Or, what will all of these bills do to actually reduce the cost of health care while covering more citizens with health care that are uninsured now?

You guys scream from the roof tops and go over the Dem Reform bill with a fine tooth comb, dissecting every little word....

while YOU just post the header of the republican bills and TRUST THEM enough to believe the tittle of their Bill is going to actually help our situation? Why post this thread, without posting the details and giving them the scrutiny you gave their opposition?

This is what I do not understand?

Ollie, is correct on this imo...he sees it, for what it is....imo...PP.

Care

I read the bills care, they are effective. Go through and read my posts in the thread, you have me pegged wrong.

I was being lazy and trying to avoid reading the 4 pages of the thread PP, and if you say the bills and proposals are good ones, how many of these proposals are addressed in the Democratic Comprehensive bill on health reform as well?

See, I do not agree with doing this piece meal because we don't know what all the reforms will cost us on the whole, when all reforms are said and done....and what savings may come out of them.

And I am not saying that I support the 2 comprehensive Democratic proposals that are on the table now....because I do not support the way the bills came out from the senate and house....for several reasons now....but I still believe that it needs to be one comprehensive bill so it can be scored and we know upfront what ALL of health care reform entails and the estimated cost of such and how it will be paid for...and how it will help us.

They have good ideas in them, not all are feasible and acceptable to me but they all have good ideas.

Many of the same good ideas can be found in the massive bill they are debating now, along with some totally horrible ones that make it impossible for me and many other americans to support.

I was honest in this thread about ALL the bills I listed being from january 2009 and later, none were from prior to obama. Thats all I was saying.

I'm being lazy too so no worries .

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Now that Scott Brown won in MA and the senate doesn't have a filibuster proof majority in it maybe some of these ideas will actually make it to the senate floor and enter into the debate.

That is if the Dems dont pull shenanigans and force the bill through using the nuclear option.

 

[Navy1960]

What has surprised me at least somewhat in all this healthcare debate, is that there is a CLEAR starting point in the debate on healthcare reform. Many can agree there is a need for low cost, quailty healthcare, that is both affordable, and available. Where many part compnay in this debate is how to get there, and where the frustration level seems to rise is the sheer willingness to not listen to ALL ideas in this debate, especially when you consider the fact that this is something that effects everyone.