Spread the Wealth

[Ravi]

I never said I endoresed the plans McCain has detailed so far. It is interesting that you avoided the substance of the post all together. Should I make assumptions of you then that you support growing government?

I haven't seen the plan so it's hard to comment on it. If you'd like to be a bit more detailed I'll be glad to give you my opinion.

 

[Bern80]

I haven't seen the plan so it's hard to comment on it. If you'd like to be a bit more detailed I'll be glad to give you my opinion.

You don't need to know because it isn't the point of what I'm talking about. The point is Obama is trying to sell this great tax plan by saying, don't worry everyone I'm only going to raise taxes on these people here. And no one is asking why he feels the need to raise taxes at all on anyone. Why is not running on a much more popular platform of trying to get government to actually spend less money which would negate the need for any tax hikes?

 

[Ravi]

You don't need to know because it isn't the point of what I'm talking about. The point is Obama is trying to sell this great tax plan by saying, don't worry everyone I'm only going to raise taxes on these people here. And no one is asking why he feels the need to raise taxes at all on anyone. Why is not running on a much more popular platform of trying to get government to actually spend less money which would negate the need for any tax hikes?

I dunno, maybe because the Republicans always run on that platform and never follow through? Just a guess. And quite honestly, I have no problem whatsoever with restoring the tax code to what it was before Bush got his paws on it. And as far as I can tell that's not even close to what Obama is proposing.

 

[Bern80]

I dunno, maybe because the Republicans always run on that platform and never follow through? Just a guess. And quite honestly, I have no problem whatsoever with restoring the tax code to what it was before Bush got his paws on it. And as far as I can tell that's not even close to what Obama is proposing.

The old 'he's gonna do it, so it's okay for me to do it' argument never is a good one. Why are you okay with going to higher tax brackets across the board? Why do want to give government more money? Why do you want them babysitting you so badly?

 

[doeton]

oh people...

here's a fact.

when the rich spend their money it's on goods that per dollar spent do less to stimulate the economy than the poor.

it's a fact.

think bmw vs. pontaic.

think 5 star restaurant vs. applebees.

think suit vs. wrangler jeans.

GET IT!

money in the hands of the poor stimulates the economy.

money in the hands of the rich stimulates the rich.

welcome to reality.

 

[doeton]

what cracks me up even more

is how the pubs will sit here and shit on the working man.

what is this you can be replaced in 15 seconds crap?

it's the monkey ceo's that can be replaced. hell you don't even notice when they are there or not.

take away a worker and the line doesn't move.

anyone who works hard in this country deserves to make a decent living, deserves a roof over their head, education for their kids, and decent health care.

 

[Ravi]

The old 'he's gonna do it, so it's okay for me to do it' argument never is a good one. Why are you okay with going to higher tax brackets across the board? Why do want to give government more money? Why do you want them babysitting you so badly?

That isn't the argument I made and I have no interest in having the government babysit me. I have an interest in the economy being strong and the people being able to keep the country the superpower that it is now without borrowing money from China.

 

[Ravi]

what cracks me up even more

is how the pubs will sit here and shit on the working man.

what is this you can be replaced in 15 seconds crap?

it's the monkey ceo's that can be replaced. hell you don't even notice when they are there or not.

take away a worker and the line doesn't move.

anyone who works hard in this country deserves to make a decent living, deserves a roof over their head, education for their kids, and decent health care.

I never understood their rationale, either. Maybe they think the rich are more deserving? Maybe they don't realize that the rich make their money in large part because the poor can afford to buy their goods?

 

[doeton]

I never understood their rationale, either. Maybe they think the rich are more deserving? Maybe they don't realize that the rich make their money in large part because the poor can afford to buy their goods?

and off the backs of their labor.

seems like theres some christian ethos here that eludes me...

 

[Care4all]

I never understood their rationale, either. Maybe they think the rich are more deserving? Maybe they don't realize that the rich make their money in large part because the poor can afford to buy their goods?

and make their goods...

 

[Bern80]

That isn't the argument I made and I have no interest in having the government babysit me. I have an interest in the economy being strong and the people being able to keep the country the superpower that it is now without borrowing money from China.

Okay, how does giving government even more money, which means some people, rich, poor, whatever, will have less money facilitate that interest?

 

[dilloduck]

what cracks me up even more

is how the pubs will sit here and shit on the working man.

what is this you can be replaced in 15 seconds crap?

it's the monkey ceo's that can be replaced. hell you don't even notice when they are there or not.

take away a worker and the line doesn't move.

anyone who works hard in this country deserves to make a decent living, deserves a roof over their head, education for their kids, and decent health care.

Take away a line worker and he's replaced in a heartbeat.

 

[Care4all]

Take away a line worker and he's replaced in a heartbeat.

because he's NEEDED!

 

[Mad Scientist]

I have worked all my life, so don't give me the shit that I want something for nothing.

Bullshit. "Wealth Redistribution" is getting something for nothing and you advocate it.

I am tired of those with money and power telling US to get screwed and those who support this shit.

Or maybe just a wee bit jealous of them rayboy?

You're right...in a free society you DON'T need to re-distribute the wealth. However, this is no longer a free society, as our taxes are being sent to the richest, to be re-distributed to the poorest. However, the rich hold on to everything, and the poor get nothing.

Wrong. Our taxes are being used on a vast array of gubamint social programs, some for people here illegally. Howze that "War on Poverty" going?

Fucking amazing. We just did the largest redistribution of wealth in our history. 800 billion will go to the richest of the rich to keep the banks they fucked up in business. That is not redistributing the wealth? And buddy it sure wasn't downward or across - it was upward.

You can blame Bush all you want. The Bailout Bill was written by and passed by Democrats.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Take away a line worker and he's replaced in a heartbeat.

Take away a CEO, and the profit margin of the company goes up.

 

[Bern80]

I never understood their rationale, either. Maybe they think the rich are more deserving? Maybe they don't realize that the rich make their money in large part because the poor can afford to buy their goods?

People, including myself time and time again have told you what the difference is and the why's between growing have nots and fewer haves. You simply ignore it or don't like it.

As I've said there is a huge social behavior component that most people simply don't want to admit is playing an ever increasing role in how this shakes out. We really do need to understand why rich people are rich and poor people are poor. In my opinion based on some reading of the issue and my observations of people day to day in has more to do with people's behaviors then some big hand keeping people down or someone victimizing people to gain wealth.

I could write an entire book on the subject but in a nutshell my observation and what I have read indicates rich people are rich because of their behaviors (and no not behaviors that make them rich at the expense of others) they understand money and are highly motivated people and their behaviors reflect that.

On the flipside you need look no further than the behavior of the poor to see how they got that way in most cases. Someone got pregnant to early, they're irresponsible with money, they make poor decisions, etc.

the reason you are seeing the growing divide is because the behavioral balance is shifting. More and more people don't grasp the concept that if they want to be financially well off, it is going to take considerable work and sacrafice. People like to hold up brats in hollywood and think that's typically how people become wealthy. It simply isn't true. To make matters worse

What makes things worse is that people make a common psycholigical mistake when they fail. They blame others for why that happened. That is normal really. We blame others for failures and we give credit to ourselves for success.

 

[dilloduck]

Take away a CEO, and the profit margin of the company goes up.

The company moves to another country. Jobs leave with them.

 

[Ravi]

People, including myself time and time again have told you what the difference is and the why's between growing have nots and fewer haves. You simply ignore it or don't like it.

As I've said there is a huge social behavior component that most people simply don't want to admit is playing an ever increasing role in how this shakes out. We really do need to understand why rich people are rich and poor people are poor. In my opinion based on some reading of the issue and my observations of people day to day in has more to do with people's behaviors then some big hand keeping people down or someone victimizing people to gain wealth.

I could write an entire book on the subject but in a nutshell my observation and what I have read indicates rich people are rich because of their behaviors (and no not behaviors that make them rich at the expense of others) they understand money and are highly motivated people and their behaviors reflect that.

On the flipside you need look no further than the behavior of the poor to see how they got that way in most cases. Someone got pregnant to early, they're irresponsible with money, they make poor decisions, etc.

the reason you are seeing the growing divide is because the behavioral balance is shifting. More and more people don't grasp the concept that if they want to be financially well off, it is going to take considerable work and sacrafice. People like to hold up brats in hollywood and think that's typically how people become wealthy. It simply isn't true. To make matters worse

What makes things worse is that people make a common psycholigical mistake when they fail. They blame others for why that happened. That is normal really. We blame others for failures and we give credit to ourselves for success.

That's all nice but it is nothing more than an opinion. In my opinion, people do better when they have a stable childhood and a well rounded education. Take some people out of the slums and raise them in middle class families and I betcha they will turn out better.

It's not that I ignore it, it's that I do not believe you. IMO, your opinion is based in selfish delusion, and while you are welcome to it, you've got nothing to credibly back it up.

 

[Turboswede]

It is not just the super rich that are going to have their wealth redistrubuted. It is any business that has a gross income of 250k. That figure is not that high and it will affect MANY small businesses. This will do nothing but hurt the economy.

I kind of hope Obama wins and puts this into action, so this way everyone can see what a disater of a plan this is.

Nope,
Small businesses that pay owners a “net” income of over 250K per year will be subject to the increase. The solution is to adjust the salary the owner receives to be under the $250K threshold. You can do that through reinvesting in the business, finding other business ventures to invest in, increasing personal deductions, etc.

The Idea that a business that brings in (Gross) $250K generates $250K in taxable income to the business owner is just silly.

 

[Bern80]

That's all nice but it is nothing more than an opinion. In my opinion, people do better when they have a stable childhood and a well rounded education. Take some people out of the slums and raise them in middle class families and I betcha they will turn out better.

It's not that I ignore it, it's that I do not believe you. IMO, your opinion is based in selfish delusion, and while you are welcome to it, you've got nothing to credibly back it up.

I have plenty. And at there very least your opinion has even less credibility. Simply because all of the things you say are well and good up to a point. Yes peopel raised under different circumstances will have better opportunities than others. But then people reach adult hood where success after that is based solely on the decisions of the individual. Some trust fund baby isn't going to stay wealthy if they don't put the effort in themsleves to do so.

Essentially what you are asking people to believe is success is simply fate, which is truly naive and self serving. As i said if it doesn't work out you have the easy excuse of simply saying hey it wasn't my fault. Regardless of the advantages someone has growing their success through the rest of their life rests sqaurely and solely on their own shoulders.