Spain screws up in spectacular style

[Tommy Tainant]

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Not quite sure exactly what you mean.

Do I believe in democracy ? Yes.

Do I have faith in referenda ? Yes

Was this one an appalling mess ? Yes

Should we get the chance to vote on the outcome of the talks ? Absolutely.

No, because once article 50 is invoked, you cannot go back, so you can't vote on outcomes.

The EU have said that we can. Will find a link when I get a moment.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

More than 700 Catalan mayors protest Spain's backlash

The Spanish govt must be as thick as shit for stirring up this.

 

[Tehon]

Maybe you are missing my point.
Tommy does not agree with abiding by the results of referenda if he does not like the result, but is referring to Spain's leader as Franco for not funding Catalans. Get it?

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Not quite sure exactly what you mean.

Do I believe in democracy ? Yes.

Do I have faith in referenda ? Yes

Was this one an appalling mess ? Yes

Should we get the chance to vote on the outcome of the talks ? Absolutely.

Your democratic form of government is representative, it is not direct. There is no reason why you should get a vote on the outcome. It wasn't part of the deal. Your representatives are responsible for carrying out the wishes of the constituents.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Not quite sure exactly what you mean.

Do I believe in democracy ? Yes.

Do I have faith in referenda ? Yes

Was this one an appalling mess ? Yes

Should we get the chance to vote on the outcome of the talks ? Absolutely.

Your democratic form of government is representative, it is not direct. There is no reason why you should get a vote on the outcome. It wasn't part of the deal. Your representatives are responsible for carrying out the wishes of the constituents.

There is a majority in parliament for staying in Europe. ANd an overwhelming majority in the Lords.

But I dont think that Parliament has the moral authority to overturn the referendum result without going back to the people. They do have the legal authority to do so because the first referendum result was not binding.

There is evidence that the tide has turned against brexit. The campaign was shocking in its cynicism and the lies being told. It still reverberates today .

Johnson accused of 'misusing' Brexit data

The real issue is the way that it was set up. People were asked to take an important decision on the basis of two differing opinions.

Lets see the actual deal and what it means for the country - then approve or disapprove.

 

[Tehon]

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Not quite sure exactly what you mean.

Do I believe in democracy ? Yes.

Do I have faith in referenda ? Yes

Was this one an appalling mess ? Yes

Should we get the chance to vote on the outcome of the talks ? Absolutely.

Your democratic form of government is representative, it is not direct. There is no reason why you should get a vote on the outcome. It wasn't part of the deal. Your representatives are responsible for carrying out the wishes of the constituents.

There is a majority in parliament for staying in Europe. ANd an overwhelming majority in the Lords.

But I dont think that Parliament has the moral authority to overturn the referendum result without going back to the people. They do have the legal authority to do so because the first referendum result was not binding.

There is evidence that the tide has turned against brexit. The campaign was shocking in its cynicism and the lies being told. It still reverberates today .

Johnson accused of 'misusing' Brexit data

The real issue is the way that it was set up. People were asked to take an important decision on the basis of two differing opinions.

Lets see the actual deal and what it means for the country - then approve or disapprove.

And what of the situation in Spain? Do you support the Catalan referendum?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Not quite sure exactly what you mean.

Do I believe in democracy ? Yes.

Do I have faith in referenda ? Yes

Was this one an appalling mess ? Yes

Should we get the chance to vote on the outcome of the talks ? Absolutely.

Your democratic form of government is representative, it is not direct. There is no reason why you should get a vote on the outcome. It wasn't part of the deal. Your representatives are responsible for carrying out the wishes of the constituents.

There is a majority in parliament for staying in Europe. ANd an overwhelming majority in the Lords.

But I dont think that Parliament has the moral authority to overturn the referendum result without going back to the people. They do have the legal authority to do so because the first referendum result was not binding.

There is evidence that the tide has turned against brexit. The campaign was shocking in its cynicism and the lies being told. It still reverberates today .

Johnson accused of 'misusing' Brexit data

The real issue is the way that it was set up. People were asked to take an important decision on the basis of two differing opinions.

Lets see the actual deal and what it means for the country - then approve or disapprove.

And what of the situation in Spain? Do you support the Catalan referendum?

If those people want independence then it will happen. I dont know enough about the economics to comment on how good it will be for them. But the Spanish government are dealing with it in a primitive way.

 

[onaquest]

...The Catalans are defying a court order to suspend the 1 October vote....

Lol. We Brits had a referendum and you've done nothing but advocate the will of the people be ignored and that we continue to be governed by faceless unelected beaurocrats from Brussels. Such hypocrisy!

wondering how well another Scottish independence referendum would fare with brexit just around the corner?

Maybe you are missing my point.
Tommy does not agree with abiding by the results of referenda if he does not like the result, but is referring to Spain's leader as Franco for not funding Catalans. Get it?

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Not sure you're addressing me but I think I've been clear, i.e, the nuts and bolts of any agreement should also be voted on.

 

[onaquest]

wondering how well another Scottish independence referendum would fare with brexit just around the corner?

Maybe you are missing my point.
Tommy does not agree with abiding by the results of referenda if he does not like the result, but is referring to Spain's leader as Franco for not funding Catalans. Get it?

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Like Tommy and afterlife, not sure what you mean by a direct democracy.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

wondering how well another Scottish independence referendum would fare with brexit just around the corner?

Maybe you are missing my point.
Tommy does not agree with abiding by the results of referenda if he does not like the result, but is referring to Spain's leader as Franco for not funding Catalans. Get it?

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Not sure you're addressing me but I think I've been clear, i.e, the nuts and bolts of any agreement should also be voted on.

I was addressing Tilly about her hypocrisy.

 

[Tehon]

Maybe you are missing my point.
Tommy does not agree with abiding by the results of referenda if he does not like the result, but is referring to Spain's leader as Franco for not funding Catalans. Get it?

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Like Tommy and afterlife, not sure what you mean by a direct democracy.

direct democracy | political philosophy
Direct democracy, also called pure democracy, forms of direct participation of citizens in democratic decision making in contrast to indirect or representative democracy, based on the sovereignty of the people. This can happen in the form of an assembly democracy or by initiative and referendum with ballot voting,

 

[Eloy]

It is with regret that this thread was derailed on its first page because the Original Poster allowed himself to be dragged into another Brexit debate. I wanted to comment on the situation in Catalunya so I might start another topic of my own. Hard to know what to do as this happens all the time.

 

[Tilly]

Maybe you are missing my point.
Tommy does not agree with abiding by the results of referenda if he does not like the result, but is referring to Spain's leader as Franco for not funding Catalans. Get it?

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Not sure you're addressing me but I think I've been clear, i.e, the nuts and bolts of any agreement should also be voted on.

I was addressing Tilly about her hypocrisy.

It is clearly you who is the hypocrite. You've done nothing but whine about the referendum from the day the results were in. Whining and saying Brexit would not happen, that the vote would be overturned, that we need to vote again etc etc ad nauseum. All your sad posts about it are still here, Tammy. Now you seem to have realised Brexit won't be blocked and have changed tack. YOU LOST - and it's way past time you put your big boy pants on and GET OVER IT

 

[Tommy Tainant]

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Not sure you're addressing me but I think I've been clear, i.e, the nuts and bolts of any agreement should also be voted on.

I was addressing Tilly about her hypocrisy.

It is clearly you who is the hypocrite. You've done nothing but whine about the referendum from the day the results were in. Whining and saying Brexit would not happen, that the vote would be overturned, that we need to vote again etc etc ad nauseum. All your sad posts about it are still here, Tammy. Now you seem to have realised Brexit won't be blocked and have changed tack. YOU LOST - and it's way past time you put your big boy pants on and GET OVER IT

Brexit trash have been whining for 40 years so please spare me the lecture.

 

[onaquest]

well id think that Tommy was wrong too for not abiding by any referenda results. my point with you is 'governed by faceless unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.' it seems the Scot's have no problem with Brussels. they overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU whilst the rest of the UK did not. what does that say about the people's will and abiding by referenda?

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Like Tommy and afterlife, not sure what you mean by a direct democracy.

direct democracy | political philosophy
Direct democracy, also called pure democracy, forms of direct participation of citizens in democratic decision making in contrast to indirect or representative democracy, based on the sovereignty of the people. This can happen in the form of an assembly democracy or by initiative and referendum with ballot voting,

democracy by consensus is cumbersome and time consuming but for issues effecting minorities and regional areas probably the most inclusive but for collective rights and good governance not so good. i guess what I'm saying is that nothing is perfect but i can't see how a national majority should whitewash minorities or regional aspirations.

 

[Papageorgio]

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Not quite sure exactly what you mean.

Do I believe in democracy ? Yes.

Do I have faith in referenda ? Yes

Was this one an appalling mess ? Yes

Should we get the chance to vote on the outcome of the talks ? Absolutely.

Your democratic form of government is representative, it is not direct. There is no reason why you should get a vote on the outcome. It wasn't part of the deal. Your representatives are responsible for carrying out the wishes of the constituents.

There is a majority in parliament for staying in Europe. ANd an overwhelming majority in the Lords.

But I dont think that Parliament has the moral authority to overturn the referendum result without going back to the people. They do have the legal authority to do so because the first referendum result was not binding.

There is evidence that the tide has turned against brexit. The campaign was shocking in its cynicism and the lies being told. It still reverberates today .

Johnson accused of 'misusing' Brexit data

The real issue is the way that it was set up. People were asked to take an important decision on the basis of two differing opinions.

Lets see the actual deal and what it means for the country - then approve or disapprove.

And what of the situation in Spain? Do you support the Catalan referendum?

If those people want independence then it will happen. I dont know enough about the economics to comment on how good it will be for them. But the Spanish government are dealing with it in a primitive way.

So one group it's okay for independence and another it is not?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Not quite sure exactly what you mean.

Do I believe in democracy ? Yes.

Do I have faith in referenda ? Yes

Was this one an appalling mess ? Yes

Should we get the chance to vote on the outcome of the talks ? Absolutely.

Your democratic form of government is representative, it is not direct. There is no reason why you should get a vote on the outcome. It wasn't part of the deal. Your representatives are responsible for carrying out the wishes of the constituents.

There is a majority in parliament for staying in Europe. ANd an overwhelming majority in the Lords.

But I dont think that Parliament has the moral authority to overturn the referendum result without going back to the people. They do have the legal authority to do so because the first referendum result was not binding.

There is evidence that the tide has turned against brexit. The campaign was shocking in its cynicism and the lies being told. It still reverberates today .

Johnson accused of 'misusing' Brexit data

The real issue is the way that it was set up. People were asked to take an important decision on the basis of two differing opinions.

Lets see the actual deal and what it means for the country - then approve or disapprove.

And what of the situation in Spain? Do you support the Catalan referendum?

If those people want independence then it will happen. I dont know enough about the economics to comment on how good it will be for them. But the Spanish government are dealing with it in a primitive way.

So one group it's okay for independence and another it is not?

Im a big believer in independence. I would not deny it to anybody.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Then hopefully the Scots will get another referendum and can vote again. I'm not against that.

But you are against the UK having a vote to ratify the super duper deal that Davis is "negotiating" ? What a hypocrite you are.

Do you prefer a direct democracy?

Like Tommy and afterlife, not sure what you mean by a direct democracy.

direct democracy | political philosophy
Direct democracy, also called pure democracy, forms of direct participation of citizens in democratic decision making in contrast to indirect or representative democracy, based on the sovereignty of the people. This can happen in the form of an assembly democracy or by initiative and referendum with ballot voting,

democracy by consensus is cumbersome and time consuming but for issues effecting minorities and regional areas probably the most inclusive but for collective rights and good governance not so good. i guess what I'm saying is that nothing is perfect but i can't see how a national majority should whitewash minorities or regional aspirations.

The key to it is how the questions are phrased and how it is placed in the context of the overall picture.

 

[Papageorgio]

Your democratic form of government is representative, it is not direct. There is no reason why you should get a vote on the outcome. It wasn't part of the deal. Your representatives are responsible for carrying out the wishes of the constituents.

There is a majority in parliament for staying in Europe. ANd an overwhelming majority in the Lords.

But I dont think that Parliament has the moral authority to overturn the referendum result without going back to the people. They do have the legal authority to do so because the first referendum result was not binding.

There is evidence that the tide has turned against brexit. The campaign was shocking in its cynicism and the lies being told. It still reverberates today .

Johnson accused of 'misusing' Brexit data

The real issue is the way that it was set up. People were asked to take an important decision on the basis of two differing opinions.

Lets see the actual deal and what it means for the country - then approve or disapprove.

And what of the situation in Spain? Do you support the Catalan referendum?

If those people want independence then it will happen. I dont know enough about the economics to comment on how good it will be for them. But the Spanish government are dealing with it in a primitive way.

So one group it's okay for independence and another it is not?

Im a big believer in independence. I would not deny it to anybody.

So you are all for Brexit. Good to know you are for independence.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

There is a majority in parliament for staying in Europe. ANd an overwhelming majority in the Lords.

But I dont think that Parliament has the moral authority to overturn the referendum result without going back to the people. They do have the legal authority to do so because the first referendum result was not binding.

There is evidence that the tide has turned against brexit. The campaign was shocking in its cynicism and the lies being told. It still reverberates today .

Johnson accused of 'misusing' Brexit data

The real issue is the way that it was set up. People were asked to take an important decision on the basis of two differing opinions.

Lets see the actual deal and what it means for the country - then approve or disapprove.

And what of the situation in Spain? Do you support the Catalan referendum?

If those people want independence then it will happen. I dont know enough about the economics to comment on how good it will be for them. But the Spanish government are dealing with it in a primitive way.

So one group it's okay for independence and another it is not?

Im a big believer in independence. I would not deny it to anybody.

So you are all for Brexit. Good to know you are for independence.

I realise that you are trying to make some dumbarse point here. But you are merely displaying your ignorance.

 

[Papageorgio]

And what of the situation in Spain? Do you support the Catalan referendum?

If those people want independence then it will happen. I dont know enough about the economics to comment on how good it will be for them. But the Spanish government are dealing with it in a primitive way.

So one group it's okay for independence and another it is not?

Im a big believer in independence. I would not deny it to anybody.

So you are all for Brexit. Good to know you are for independence.

I realise that you are trying to make some dumbarse point here. But you are merely displaying your ignorance.

I realize you are inconsistent in your ideas and are an unprincipled left wing nut job. I am for real independence and accept the people's wishes, even though it may go against my agenda, you seem tied to your perverted idea of you know what is best for others.