"sovereign citizens" murder cops in Louisiana

[Quantum Windbag]

The "libertarian/tea party" movement he says.

It's really not a laughing matter, Kevin. "Definition first!" were the first words out of the mouth of my professor in the first meeting of Intro to Logic (not formal logic, a course in the philosophy of language - linguistics, semantics, connotation, etc.).

It's quite funny, actually. To state that the Tea Party was libertarian is completely absurd. The Tea Party was more Palin than Paul, and Palin is in no way shape or form a libertarian. Making such a ridiculous claim makes me think that the OP probably doesn't know anything about libertarianism.

The OP doesn't know anything about anything, despite his claims to be an astrophysicist. I still can't believe he lost a debate about science to an autodidact when he claims to have an advanced degree in physics.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's really not a laughing matter, Kevin. "Definition first!" were the first words out of the mouth of my professor in the first meeting of Intro to Logic (not formal logic, a course in the philosophy of language - linguistics, semantics, connotation, etc.).

It's quite funny, actually. To state that the Tea Party was libertarian is completely absurd. The Tea Party was more Palin than Paul, and Palin is in no way shape or form a libertarian. Making such a ridiculous claim makes me think that the OP probably doesn't know anything about libertarianism.

Now, as to you comment,

"No, I think that definition is more apt to describe a sociopath. Most of those go into government. "

I completely disagree (unless your reference is to elected officials and even then I would agree only on a case by case evaluation). Very few sociopaths (personality disordered) individuals are civil servants (in my years of experience). On point, the members of the Sovereign Citizens movement would seem to be so:

301.20 Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD) (From DSM - IV Guide to Diagnosis:

"Patients with SPD are indifferent to the society of other people, sometimes profoundly so. Typically they are lifelong loners who show a restricted emotional range; they appear unsociable, cold and seclusive...these patients may daydream excessively, become attached to animals, and often do not marry or even form long-lasting relationships. They do retain contact with reality, unless they develop schizophrenia".

Damn, you almost made a point, then you posted the definition that has nothing to do with anti social personality disorder, which would be the definition you want to use from DSM IV. Pay close attention to the last criteria listed below.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM IV-TR), defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.Gee, schizophrenia is not required to be a sociopath.

I guess that makes you wrong.

Again.

 

[Contumacious]

At least two of the seven suspects accused of gunning down four St. John Parish sheriff's deputies Thursday reportedly have ties to the growing anti-government "sovereign citizens" movement. It is an extremist group, described by the FBI as a "domestic terrorist movement" that has proven itself so deadly to law enforcement that at least 80,000 officers and agencies have ordered training videos on how to defend themselves against its members.

'Sovereign citizens' group rejects most government authority | NOLA.com
THis is what the libertarian movement is going towards - rejection of all government authority, to the point that its acceptable to gun down government employees in cold blood

Yo Vern

Do we have a right to VIOLENTLY oppose UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND UNLAWFUL USURPATIONS BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS?

>

 

[Wry Catcher]

Nothing like trying to smear an entire group of people by the antisocial actions of a few nut cases.

Fucking puny-minded bigot.

You're an idiot. Don't you ever think through your comments before exposing yourself as such?

How many of your idiot fringe buddies posted one photo of one "antisocial nut case(s)" defecating at an OWS event and cast such behavior to define an entire movement?

OWS is a heterogeneous; the Sovereign Citizen movement, like its progenitor the "violent Posse Comitatus group, a white-supremacist, anti-Semitic group born in the 1980s", is homogeneous.

Link for background: 'Sovereign citizens' group rejects most government authority | NOLA.com

One photo? Seriously? I posted at least three myself, and can easily find hundreds of news stories about property damage, unreported crimes including rape, trespassing, and violence against law enforcement. How many stories like that are there about Tea Party groups again?

Spin away Windbag, as usual you missed the point entirely and still tried to spin it your way. Try reading what I posted again, slowly and out loud if that helps.

How many of your idiot fringe buddies posted one photo of one "antisocial nut case(s)" defecating at an OWS event and cast such behavior to define an entire movement?

OWS is a heterogeneous; the Sovereign Citizen movement, like its progenitor the "violent Posse Comitatus group, a white-supremacist, anti-Semitic group born in the 1980s", is homogeneous.

 

[JWBooth]

At least two of the seven suspects accused of gunning down four St. John Parish sheriff's deputies Thursday reportedly have ties to the growing anti-government "sovereign citizens" movement. It is an extremist group, described by the FBI as a "domestic terrorist movement" that has proven itself so deadly to law enforcement that at least 80,000 officers and agencies have ordered training videos on how to defend themselves against its members.

'Sovereign citizens' group rejects most government authority | NOLA.com
THis is what the libertarian movement is going towards - rejection of all government authority, to the point that its acceptable to gun down government employees in cold blood

Yo Vern

Do we have a right to VIOLENTLY oppose UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND UNLAWFUL USURPATIONS BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS?

>

Perhaps, but the core tenet of libertarianism is non violent use of persuasion rather than coercion.

 

[Wry Catcher]

At least two of the seven suspects accused of gunning down four St. John Parish sheriff's deputies Thursday reportedly have ties to the growing anti-government "sovereign citizens" movement. It is an extremist group, described by the FBI as a "domestic terrorist movement" that has proven itself so deadly to law enforcement that at least 80,000 officers and agencies have ordered training videos on how to defend themselves against its members.

'Sovereign citizens' group rejects most government authority | NOLA.com
THis is what the libertarian movement is going towards - rejection of all government authority, to the point that its acceptable to gun down government employees in cold blood

Yo Vern

Do we have a right to VIOLENTLY oppose UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND UNLAWFUL USURPATIONS BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS?

>

No. You do not. You have the right to protest. You have the right to leave the United States (unlike citizens in some nations) and you have the right to vote against elected officials with whom you disagree (unless your state deciedes to disenfranchise you because you lack papers).

You have no right to take the law into your own hands.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It's really not a laughing matter, Kevin. "Definition first!" were the first words out of the mouth of my professor in the first meeting of Intro to Logic (not formal logic, a course in the philosophy of language - linguistics, semantics, connotation, etc.).

It's quite funny, actually. To state that the Tea Party was libertarian is completely absurd. The Tea Party was more Palin than Paul, and Palin is in no way shape or form a libertarian. Making such a ridiculous claim makes me think that the OP probably doesn't know anything about libertarianism.

The OP doesn't know anything about anything, despite his claims to be an astrophysicist. I still can't believe he lost a debate about science to an autodidact when he claims to have an advanced degree in physics.

Well I know nothing about that situation, but I do know that this person clearly has no idea what libertarianism is.

 

[Contumacious]

'Sovereign citizens' group rejects most government authority | NOLA.com
THis is what the libertarian movement is going towards - rejection of all government authority, to the point that its acceptable to gun down government employees in cold blood

Yo Vern

Do we have a right to VIOLENTLY oppose UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND UNLAWFUL USURPATIONS BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS?

>

Perhaps, but the core tenet of libertarianism is non violent use of persuasion rather than coercion.

Incorrect.

That would be the liberals and pacifists.

You fuck with us violently and we will return the favor.

.

 

[Oddball]

Yo Vern

Do we have a right to VIOLENTLY oppose UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND UNLAWFUL USURPATIONS BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS?

>

Perhaps, but the core tenet of libertarianism is non violent use of persuasion rather than coercion.

Incorrect.

That would be the liberals and pacifists.

You fuck with us violently and we will return the favor.

.

The man was talking about proactive force, not defensive/retaliatory.

 

[Contumacious]

Perhaps, but the core tenet of libertarianism is non violent use of persuasion rather than coercion.

Incorrect.

That would be the liberals and pacifists.

You fuck with us violently and we will return the favor.

.

The man was talking about proactive force, not defensive/retaliatory.

We will not INITIATE FORCE OR FRAUD '''


The Libertarian pledge, a statement individuals must sign in order to join the Libertarian Party of the United States, declares, "I hereby certify that I do not believe in or advocate the initiation of force as a means of achieving political or social goals.

.

 

[Oddball]

Yes...Initiation of force and proactive use of force are synonymous.

And that's the context in which JWB is speaking.

 

[Plasmaball]

At least two of the seven suspects accused of gunning down four St. John Parish sheriff's deputies Thursday reportedly have ties to the growing anti-government "sovereign citizens" movement. It is an extremist group, described by the FBI as a "domestic terrorist movement" that has proven itself so deadly to law enforcement that at least 80,000 officers and agencies have ordered training videos on how to defend themselves against its members.

'Sovereign citizens' group rejects most government authority | NOLA.com
THis is what the libertarian movement is going towards - rejection of all government authority, to the point that its acceptable to gun down government employees in cold blood

Sounds like liberals to me.. Liberals , bloodthirsty fucks who want to turn over a filmmaker for creating his own art, to ANIMALS to kill him.. Yep, I know this article is describing stinking liberals.

The sovereign movement is a descendant of the now-defunct, violent Posse Comitatus group, a white-supremacist, anti-Semitic group born in the 1980s, according to Mark Potok, a senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which studies hate groups. The Posse Comitatus was dismantled and its members shifted to fringe groups, loosely connected via seminars and thousands of dedicated websites and online forums.
"Sovereign citizens" believe that there is no legitimate government authority higher than parish or county government. Individuals, they believe, rather than courts or government, decide what laws a person must follow -- thus they often decline to pay taxes, renew driver's licenses or obey speed limits. They often create fake license plates and print counterfeit money, according to the FBI.

thats conservative twat.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The sovereign movement consists of a mish-mash of far right extremist and libertarian groups with very inconsistent philosophies. They are quite capable of shooting each other as the normal folks.

 

[JWBooth]

Yes...Initiation of force and proactive use of force are synonymous.

And that's the context in which JWB is speaking.

It never occurred to me that I would have to explain what should be simply understood. Thanks.

 

[Contumacious]

The sovereign movement consists of a mish-mash of far right extremist and libertarian groups with very inconsistent philosophies. They are quite capable of shooting each other as the normal folks.

The goverment supremacist movement consists of a mish-mash of far left wing extremists and socialist groups with very consistent philosophies. Tyrannize, confiscate, loot and plunder. They are quite capable of shooting each other as the normal folks.

.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I wonder if Contumacious has ever walked the battlefield at Gettysburg and gazed down upon the graves; or Arlington or any of our other national cemeteries? I wonder how old he is; I wonder, can walk along the Vietnam Memorial Wall in The District and read the names of 'kids' he went to school with, played ball with and against, and served with?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I see you are in the bripat wing of delusional libertarianism. I wonder what other interests he shares with you along with politics.

Nope, podjo you have to go with accept definitions and terms. Can't make them up and expect to accepted in the normal world.
\

The sovereign movement consists of a mish-mash of far right extremist and libertarian groups with very inconsistent philosophies. They are quite capable of shooting each other as the normal folks.

The goverment supremacist movement consists of a mish-mash of far left wing extremists and socialist groups with very consistent philosophies. Tyrannize, confiscate, loot and plunder. They are quite capable of shooting each other as the normal folks.

.

 

[freedombecki]

At least two of the seven suspects accused of gunning down four St. John Parish sheriff's deputies Thursday reportedly have ties to the growing anti-government "sovereign citizens" movement. It is an extremist group, described by the FBI as a "domestic terrorist movement" that has proven itself so deadly to law enforcement that at least 80,000 officers and agencies have ordered training videos on how to defend themselves against its members.

'Sovereign citizens' group rejects most government authority | NOLA.com
THis is what the libertarian movement is going towards - rejection of all government authority, to the point that its acceptable to gun down government employees in cold blood

Sounds like liberals to me.. Liberals , bloodthirsty fucks who want to turn over a filmmaker for creating his own art, to ANIMALS to kill him.. Yep, I know this article is describing stinking liberals.

Liberals are ruled by those who park their armored vehicles at Fort Knox for when they pass bad legislation to milk the cow under Republican noses. Then, when they get their fill, Republicans shut them down, so they tap Hillary for her addition to the 900 FBI Files she started out with in Filegate to destroy conservatives. They don't believe it when one of theirs gets comeuppance and fight to the bitter end to save these thieves until it's so crystal clear they are guilty of all charges their base backs off a little, convinced that conservative Republicans are "mean people," when actually, conservative Republicans do the right things to try and keep it honest so people will have an accounting of what Washington does at the end of the day.

 

[Contumacious]

I wonder if Contumacious has ever walked the battlefield at Gettysburg and gazed down upon the graves; or Arlington or any of our other national cemeteries? I wonder how old he is; I wonder, can walk along the Vietnam Memorial Wall in The District and read the names of 'kids' he went to school with, played ball with and against, and served with?

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

-Thomas Jefferson

.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It's quite funny, actually. To state that the Tea Party was libertarian is completely absurd. The Tea Party was more Palin than Paul, and Palin is in no way shape or form a libertarian. Making such a ridiculous claim makes me think that the OP probably doesn't know anything about libertarianism.

Now, as to you comment,

"No, I think that definition is more apt to describe a sociopath. Most of those go into government. "

I completely disagree (unless your reference is to elected officials and even then I would agree only on a case by case evaluation). Very few sociopaths (personality disordered) individuals are civil servants (in my years of experience). On point, the members of the Sovereign Citizens movement would seem to be so:

301.20 Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD) (From DSM - IV Guide to Diagnosis:

"Patients with SPD are indifferent to the society of other people, sometimes profoundly so. Typically they are lifelong loners who show a restricted emotional range; they appear unsociable, cold and seclusive...these patients may daydream excessively, become attached to animals, and often do not marry or even form long-lasting relationships. They do retain contact with reality, unless they develop schizophrenia".

Damn, you almost made a point, then you posted the definition that has nothing to do with anti social personality disorder, which would be the definition you want to use from DSM IV. Pay close attention to the last criteria listed below.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM IV-TR), defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.Gee, schizophrenia is not required to be a sociopath.

I guess that makes you wrong.

Again.

I guess you can't read. I'll leave it to others to research the meanings. Read my post slowly and aloud if that will help with your comprehension.