South Dakota Passes Bill Banning All Abortions Except If Woman Is In Danger Of Dying

[musicman]

But not on a individual legal case or state.

Where is THAT written? It was an emergency measure; they've done that all through our history.

Sure they pass law, but you know exactly what they were attemping here. It wasn't right and it failed.

Ah, well - we all have our opinions on the Schiavo case; the point I tried to stay with was that Congress never strayed from it's Constitutional authority - opinions on their motivations aside. It's as if we'd all gotten so used to seeing the Constitution screwed over by the judiciary, we'd forgotten how it's supposed to work.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Where is THAT written? It was an emergency measure; they've done that all through our history.



Ah, well - we all have our opinions on the Schiavo case; the point I tried to stay with was that Congress never strayed from it's Constitutional authority - opinions on their motivations aside. It's as if we'd all gotten so used to seeing the Constitution screwed over by the judiciary, we'd forgotten how it's supposed to work.

Alway remember, p's S.O. is a judge.

 

[Mr. P]

Alway remember, p's S.O. is a judge.

A very conservative one too.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

A very conservative one too.

Good for her. The secret's safe with me. It's weird how judges can't reveal themselves. Intellectually I mean.

 

[Mariner]

the most extreme possible situation: some dude breaks into your house, beats the crap out of you, kills your children, and rapes your wife. Some people here would want to force this woman to carry the baby to term? How would the state go about coercing her into keeping the baby and taking proper prenatal care of it?

Mariner.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

the most extreme possible situation: some dude breaks into your house, beats the crap out of you, kills your children, and rapes your wife. Some people here would want to force this woman to carry the baby to term? How would the state go about coercing her into keeping the baby and taking proper prenatal care of it?

Mariner.

I would be for legal abortion in that case if the woman wanted. I just get upset when lefties say fetuses aren't alive. As a biologist, M, you know full well they are. Life really does begin at conception, doesn't it?

 

[Mariner]

a fertilized egg has the potential to become a healthy human being. It needs to implant in the uterus, and needs to survive a gantlet of threats, including mutations that render it non-viable (each of us has around 300 mutations, our personal contributions to the ongoing process of human evolution) and the risk that the mother's body won't respond to it properly. (Should we shield all women from cosmic rays, to reduce the chance that the egg will mutate and be aborted?) To become a healthy human, the mother needs to do many things right, including eating right and avoiding drugs, alcohol, and medications. (Should we coerce all women to eat properly, have ob/gyn visits, take prenatal vitamins, and--in the case of a complicated pregnancy--endure whatever medical interventions are required to keep the fetus healthy? Who would police this? How?)

The problem I have with a lot of pro-life arguments is that this contribution of the mother's seems to get ignored. The moral system has not yet been found which assures that people abstain from sex. I too wish there were far fewer abortions, and I'm against the idea of abortion being seen as a back-up form of birth control. I strongly support the idea that if she becomes pregnant from voluntary sex, a woman and her partner should ideally see her through the pregnancy and delivery, and then allow a willing family to adopt the infant. But I don't see how to force people to do these things--it seems a social issue rather than a legal one. And a very complicated social issue, given how extensively our culture advertises and promotes sexuality.

Mariner.

 

[dilloduck]

a fertilized egg has the potential to become a healthy human being. It needs to implant in the uterus, and needs to survive a gantlet of threats, including mutations that render it non-viable (each of us has around 300 mutations, our personal contributions to the ongoing process of human evolution) and the risk that the mother's body won't respond to it properly. (Should we shield all women from cosmic rays, to reduce the chance that the egg will mutate and be aborted?) To become a healthy human, the mother needs to do many things right, including eating right and avoiding drugs, alcohol, and medications. (Should we coerce all women to eat properly, have ob/gyn visits, take prenatal vitamins, and--in the case of a complicated pregnancy--endure whatever medical interventions are required to keep the fetus healthy? Who would police this? How?)

The problem I have with a lot of pro-life arguments is that this contribution of the mother's seems to get ignored. The moral system has not yet been found which assures that people abstain from sex. I too wish there were far fewer abortions, and I'm against the idea of abortion being seen as a back-up form of birth control. I strongly support the idea that if she becomes pregnant from voluntary sex, a woman and her partner should ideally see her through the pregnancy and delivery, and then allow a willing family to adopt the infant. But I don't see how to force people to do these things--it seems a social issue rather than a legal one. And a very complicated social issue, given how extensively our culture advertises and promotes sexuality.

Mariner.

How about we just stop killing it and take it from there. How complicated is that?

 

[Mariner]

then--women start seeking home remedies and back-alley abortions. That's why Brazil and Peru--majority-Catholic countries which abhor abortion in principle--are considering legalizing abortion. They can't deal with the number of women sick or dead from botched abortions.

I've commented before that pro-life people could strengthen their position by supporting a stronger social safety net. Studies very clearly show that child abuse and neglect is highest when the baby is unwanted. Poverty is another contributor to child abuse and neglect. 2 million or more cases of child abuse and neglect are reported each year. A leading theory for the decline in crime over the past 30 years is that it resulted from mothers being able to abort children who would otherwise would have been so poorly cared for that they would become criminals (most criminals were abused and neglected in the first year of life--80% have abnormal EEG's suggestive of early head trauma).

At present, there's a social stigma against giving up a child for adoption. I'm all for changing that, but again it seems like a social rather than legal problem to me, and I can't see coercing women who don't want to be pregnant into carrying to term. Hence my position that abortion should be legal--yet we should do all we can to reduce its use to minimal levels.

Mariner.

 

[Nienna]

And yet, when women were "forced" to resort to back-alley abortions, far fewer abortions took place. Hmmm.

 

[Mr. P]

And yet, when women were "forced" to resort to back-alley abortions, far fewer abortions took place. Hmmm.

I really don't think that's a valid claim, mom, as "back ally" abortion practices most likely DON'T keep records. False assumption.

 

[Nienna]

I really don't think that's a valid claim, mom, as "back ally" abortion practices most likely DON'T keep records. False assumption.

Presumably hospitals treating the women who were injured WOULD keep records.

 

[Mr. P]

Presumably hospitals treating the women who were injured WOULD keep records.

So, how many were not injured?

 

[Mr. P]

So, how many were not injured?

Mom, the point is, abortion like prostitution will never be stopped.
All you can change is the number you know about.

 

[Nienna]

Mom, the point is, abortion like prostitution will never be stopped.
All you can change is the number you know about.

So do you advocate legalizing prostitution?

 

[Mr. P]

So do you advocate legalizing prostitution?

100%

 

[Nienna]

Mom, the point is, abortion like prostitution will never be stopped.
All you can change is the number you know about.

Legalizing it is a hop and a skip from giving it a stamp of approval in the public mind. Instead of being considered regrettable or wrong, it becomes a "right."

 

[Mr. P]

Legalizing it is a hop and a skip from giving it a stamp of approval in the public mind. Instead of being considered regrettable or wrong, it becomes a "right."

It is a "right". Or are you saying you have no "right" to your own body, how it's used abused, etc? Who should make those choices for you. Me?

 

[Nienna]

It is a "right". Or are you saying you have no "right" to your own body, how it's used abused, etc? Who should make those choices for you. Me?

Of course I have a "right" to my own body. But I don't have a "right" to kill someone else, someone who is innocent as far as human innocence can go.

That is why abortion should be restricted, to protect the baby's right to live.

 

[Mr. P]

Of course I have a "right" to my own body. But I don't have a "right" to kill someone else, someone who is innocent as far as human innocence can go.

That is why abortion should be restricted, to protect the baby's right to live.

You asked me if I advocate legalizing prostitution.

As far as abortion, I said it will happen legal or not, and I think the numbers will be the same, just not reported.