Sometimes I wonder why we even bother

Discussion in 'General Global Topics' started by Merlin1047, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    The following article begs the question - Why do we continue to bow obsequiously to idiotic demands of muslim governments? If they don't feel comfortable with our presence and the aid it brings, why don't we just pick up our marbles and go home?

    Given muslim attitudes and practices, it is probably just a matter of time before our military gets attacked and aid workers get kidnapped and beheaded. Perhaps it is best to simply leave the muslim world the hell alone and let them rot since it appears that nothing we do is ever correct or acceptable in their perverted view of the world.

    The full article includes some items on proposed debt relief. I extracted the part that pissed me off the most.
    =============================================
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6754820/


    U.S. military under close Indonesian watch

    Marines won’t set up camp as Indonesia is wary of foreign troops
    The Associated Press
    Updated: 2:28 p.m. ET Jan. 12, 2005BANDA ACEH, Indonesia -

    The U.S. military faced tighter restrictions Wednesday as the Indonesian government sought to reassert control over foreign troops, relief workers and journalists in the tsunami-devastated region, which has been the site of a rebel insurgency.

    The moves by the Indonesian government, aimed primarily at U.S. troops, underscore the nationalistic country’s sensitivities at having foreign military forces operating here, even in a humanitarian effort. They also come amid warnings from the Indonesian military that areas of tsunami-battered Aceh province may not be safe for aid workers.[/B]

    Although hundreds of troops from Australia, Singapore, Germany and other nations are also helping the relief mission, the United States has the largest presence by far in south Asia, with about 13,000 troops, almost all of them offshore. The Indonesian military is providing security for all those in its country.

    U.S. carrier leaves national waters

    The aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, which is leading the U.S. military’s relief effort, steamed out of Indonesian waters Wednesday because the U.S. Navy has permission from the Indonesians only to fly aircraft into its airspace that are directly supporting the humanitarian operation, said Lt. Cmdr. John M. Daniels, a spokesman for the Lincoln carrier strike group. Helicopters will still deliver aid to Sumatra’s devastated coast, however.

    Indonesia declined to let the ship’s fighter pilots use its airspace for training missions. Under Navy rules, pilots of carrier-based warplanes cannot go longer than 14 days without flying, or their skills are considered to have degraded too far. Since the Abraham Lincoln has been stationed off Sumatra since Jan. 1, the carrier moved out of Indonesian waters so its pilots could conduct their training flights in international airspace.

    Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla said foreign troops would be out of the country by March 31.

    “A three-month period is enough, even the sooner the better,” Kalla said.

    The government also ordered aid workers and journalists to declare travel plans or face expulsion from Aceh as authorities moved to reassert control of the rebellion-wracked area.

    The White House said Wednesday that it had asked the Indonesian government to explain the restrictions.

    “We hope that the government of Indonesia and the military in Indonesia will continue the strong support they have provided to the international relief efforts so far,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

    Truces offered

    Security concerns threaten to hamper efforts to deliver aid to Aceh province on the northern tip of Sumatra island, where more than 100,000 people were killed and tens of thousands of others were left homeless or in need. The United Nations has been running the relief effort, appealing to donors attending a conference in Geneva to honor the unprecedented $4 billion in pledges to help victims.

    Separatists in the Aceh region have been fighting for an independent state for decades. Indonesia’s military chief offered the rebels a cease-fire Tuesday, matching a unilateral one already declared by the insurgents.

    The military has nevertheless warned that rebels could rob aid convoys and use refugee camps as hideouts, but it has yet to offer evidence to back its claims.

    “It is important to note that the government would be placed in a very difficult position if any foreigner who came to Aceh to assist in the aid effort was harmed through the acts of irresponsible parties,” the government said in a statement. Asked whether those who failed to register with the government before traveling outside the provincial capital, Banda Aceh, would be expelled, Welfare Minister Alwi Shihab said: “I think that is one possibility.”

    Australian Prime Minister John Howard described Indonesia’s demand as “a good idea.”

    “It is very, very important that in the process of giving full effect to this magnificent international response that we recognize the difficulties in Aceh but that we don’t overreact to them and we don’t dramatize them,” he said.
    (Bullshit. Here the west is pouring billions in relief to these people and their racist xenophobic government is getting picky about it)

    Clive Williams, director of terrorism studies at the Strategic and Defense Studies Center at Australian National University in Canberra, suggested, however, that the Indonesians wanted to keep close tabs on foreigners to conceal military corruption and not protect them from rebels.

    “The big problem with dealing with [the military] in Aceh is that they’re involved in a lot of corruption there, and the reason I think they don’t want people to go to some areas is because they’re involved in human rights abuses in those areas,” Williams said.

    Marines pull back

    Before the tsunami, foreigners were banned from the area, and Wednesday’s demand highlighted the unease with which Indonesia has faced the aid operation, replete with civilian aid workers and foreign soldiers.

    U.S. Marines have scaled back plans to send hundreds of troops ashore to build roads and clear rubble. Col. Tom Greenwood, commander of the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, said this week that they would instead keep only a “minimal footprint.”

    In a major compromise, the Marines agreed that they would not carry guns while on Indonesian soil and that the vast majority of troops would return to ships stationed off the coast after each day’s operations. The bulk of the Marines’ mission has become ferrying aid workers and transporting food from the amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard.

    The Marines flew a French medical team to the shattered city of Calang by helicopter Wednesday and delivered supplies to Indonesian troops in Meulaboh to the south. Navy crews based on the Abraham Lincoln have flown hundreds of relief missions in the past two weeks.

    U.N. agencies said they did not expect Jakarta’s order to affect their operations because their security officers already worked closely with Indonesia’s military.

    “It could change the situation of [non-governmental organizations] who are moving around like private persons,” said Mals Nyberg, a spokesman for the U.N. High Commission for Refugees. “I guess that’s what soldiers want to control — that people are moving in conflict areas just like tourists.”

    Nyberg said Indonesian bureaucracy had eased in recent days, allowing the organization to get permission faster for helicopter flights to outlying regions.

    Getting help to the neediest is already difficult, with roads washed away or blocked by downed trees.

    Kevin Kennedy, a senior official in the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, said food assistance had been delivered to all the affected people in Sri Lanka.

    But he said some villages on the hard-hit west coast of Sumatra had not been reached. He said the U.N. World Food Program was delivering aid to 300,000 people on the island.
     
  2. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    All one can say is those that CAN do and those that CAN"T bitch. . .
    http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2005/01/tsunami-round-up-12-january.html
     
  3. theim
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    theim Senior Member

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    Whatever. Pull out, put more attention to the other countries, and let the Indonesians starve. At least they will meet Allah quicker...maybe even get rewarded for not taking help from Infidels (or is that only if you kill the requisite number of children and Jews?).
     
  4. Comrade
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    Comrade Senior Member

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    AP ALERT - AP ALERT - AP ALERT

    AP press releases are designed to please Liberals, and piss off everyone else.

    Implies there is no control among the relief effort. Also creates a 'rebel insurgency' where no confirmed acts of violence have occurred against the relief effort.

    This is all crafted in the report to set up the need for a UN coordinated effort, as follows...

    Aimed primarily at the US? By whose statement? At least a quote from one government official would suffice. Is this another AP 'interpretation'?

    ROTFLMAO. THEY are providing security for our Marines! :cof:

    Vice President Kalla to the sick and needy: "It's been THREE MONTHS, die already!"

    So they better schedule that food shipment to the hamlet of Meki-Tikarta now if those people there expect to eat next month... :rolleyes:

    I believe the exact words were: "What the hell are you people smoking???"

    Oh really?

    I've heard of no threats to our Marines as they've made the only substantial deliveries of aid to this region.

    Oh, give me a farking break A.P.

    For a Marine, that's a HUGE concession.

    By a non-U.N. agency, no doubt.

    Are they? Is that using the same accounting used in the U.N. Oil-for-Food program?
     
  5. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    This is a prime example of one of my biggest gripes. The nations of the world want US money and resources but they dont want the US people...like we should just turn over all our "stuff" to them and then go away.

    Maybe Saudia Arabia, Syria, Jordan, and heck, even OBL himself will each send a carrier with it's attendant choppers, etc.
     
  6. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    If so much as a single one of our guys is attacked or killed by some damn muslim idiot I will start screaming to impeach George Bush. I cannot believe that our government agreed to send our troops into that rat's nest unarmed.

    The answer should have been - "You take our aid as WE see fit to give it or you decline our aid". We should not send our troops into an area which harbors radical muslims unless our guys have the means to protect themselves.

    What the hell will Bush do if muslims attack our people? Lodge a protest with the Indonesian government? Or even better yet - the UN?
     
  7. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Choosy beggars ???----Let em rot and give the aid to those who wil accept it unconditionally.
     
  8. Comrade
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    Comrade Senior Member

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    Well, look at it this way. The Indonesian government is helpless in the face of this disaster to provide for its own.

    They have no heavy lift rotary wing aircraft to deliver immediate aid to the regions which are most affected. Reliable road transport is impossible to many of these regions which lie in the coastal plains.

    The government does have some fixed wing transport capability, but this is limited to between major population centers, and face the same problem as road transport when attempting to deliver supplies to the coast-line.

    So naturally, the already shaky Indonesian central government has to feel humbled and threatened by this abject display of power projection by the West.

    One wonders if the 'shaking of the Earth' due to scheduled fighter exercises might have demonstrated this might to the very people who the government wishes to hide this from. I myself can attest to the awe of an F-18 overflight at low altitude.


    As far as the threat to our Marines from the forwarned 'insurgents', I can't imagine that such an event would end with the escape of the attackers.

    (Imagines Marines passing around .45's in the helicopter before touching down, with a Cobra on station for fire support.)

    The idea of the Indonesian military already there in the flooded areas, and securing the landing site for our Marines is purely theoretical, still weeks after the event.
     
  9. Hobbit
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    Hobbit Senior Member

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    I doubt it. Bush is, in some ways, a cowboy. He'll go in, guns blazin,' grab our boys, and never set another foot in that country unless that foot is armed to the teeth. However, I'm going to hope they're not that stupid.
     
  10. manu1959
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    manu1959 Left Coast Isolationist

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    lets send 350 million in aid to florida and anywhere else the people of the USA need help
     
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