Something that just doesn't make any sense to me...Black Republicans this election cycle

[320 Years of History]

Apparently you and the 95% of blacks that vote Democrat have looked at the results blacks have had by supporting Democrats. Blacks fall behind in many social, educational, economic categories where low isn't better. The same applies when they're higher than others and high isn't better.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what you intend the second and third statements above to mean in context with the first one. I'll show you why not...

Broken down, what you've written is this:

I and black folks have looked at a set of results --> Blacks fall behind in areas where "low" isn't better --> Blacks also fall behind in areas where high isn't better.​

Hopefully my having broken it down for you helps you see the incoherence of that sequence of ideas that are all in one paragraph, yet have no real relation to each other. There is likely some idea (maybe a sentence's worth; maybe a paragraphs' worth, I don't know...) that you've left unstated and that rightly belongs between the first and second sentences to connect their ideas, but I have no way to tell what it may be. So that's why I'm asking you to clarify your remarks.

In areas like education, income, etc. where being on the low end of the scale isn't good, many blacks are on that low end. They finish high school at a lower rate than other groups. They have average income lower than other groups. Being lower here isn't like a golf score. It's not good.

In areas like illegitimate birth rates, poverty, unemployment, etc. blacks tend to have higher percentages in those areas where having a higher percentage isn't good. Blacks have an illegitimate birth rate at over 70%. Blacks are in poverty more than any other group. Blacks have higher unemployment than any other group.

50 years of Democrat voting at a high percentage among blacks and black continue to vote Democrat. The party that claims to be the one helping blacks has produced disastrous results. When you ask "why?" you get answer that place the slavery card or things to the effect of "at least Democrats try".

Okay. That's considerably clearer; now I understand what you mean. TY.

 

[MarcATL]

I'm trying to figure this out. I really am fucking trying to figure out how you guys can keep on lying about Trump. He fucking broke the color and religious barriers in Palm Beach. THIS IS ON MOTHER FUCKING RECORD. He broke them with his club.

And you guys keep lying about him.

He spent DECADES not renting to blacks in New York City and calling them lazy and shiftless in public.

This is on record dumb dumb.

Would you rent to a super predator?

Here we go.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[TNHarley]

I'm trying to figure this out. I really am fucking trying to figure out how you guys can keep on lying about Trump. He fucking broke the color and religious barriers in Palm Beach. THIS IS ON MOTHER FUCKING RECORD. He broke them with his club.

And you guys keep lying about him.

He spent DECADES not renting to blacks in New York City and calling them lazy and shiftless in public.

This is on record dumb dumb.

Would you rent to a super predator?

Here we go.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

was that a no?

 

[Conservative65]

Apparently you and the 95% of blacks that vote Democrat have looked at the results blacks have had by supporting Democrats. Blacks fall behind in many social, educational, economic categories where low isn't better. The same applies when they're higher than others and high isn't better.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what you intend the second and third statements above to mean in context with the first one. I'll show you why not...

Broken down, what you've written is this:

I and black folks have looked at a set of results --> Blacks fall behind in areas where "low" isn't better --> Blacks also fall behind in areas where high isn't better.​

Hopefully my having broken it down for you helps you see the incoherence of that sequence of ideas that are all in one paragraph, yet have no real relation to each other. There is likely some idea (maybe a sentence's worth; maybe a paragraphs' worth, I don't know...) that you've left unstated and that rightly belongs between the first and second sentences to connect their ideas, but I have no way to tell what it may be. So that's why I'm asking you to clarify your remarks.

In areas like education, income, etc. where being on the low end of the scale isn't good, many blacks are on that low end. They finish high school at a lower rate than other groups. They have average income lower than other groups. Being lower here isn't like a golf score. It's not good.

In areas like illegitimate birth rates, poverty, unemployment, etc. blacks tend to have higher percentages in those areas where having a higher percentage isn't good. Blacks have an illegitimate birth rate at over 70%. Blacks are in poverty more than any other group. Blacks have higher unemployment than any other group.

50 years of Democrat voting at a high percentage among blacks and black continue to vote Democrat. The party that claims to be the one helping blacks has produced disastrous results. When you ask "why?" you get answer that place the slavery card or things to the effect of "at least Democrats try".

Okay. That's considerably clearer; now I understand what you mean. TY.

The point was you have a group of people voting for a certain political party at a 95% rate despite the results of having done so at that percentage for 50 years. When it's pointed out, the claim is it's an attack. It's no more of an attack than a doctor telling someone that is obese what they've been eating and not exercising has produced.

 

[MarcATL]

Like other categories of people, the way black people are supposed to think has already been predetermined.

For those that can think for themselves, they cannot get behind conservative politics because they feel under attack by conservatives. They would not be wrong.

The rest are dependent on the government, and are content being served by liberal policies.

Sums it up quite nicely. Conservatives refuse to believe blacks can actually think for themselves, because they don't vote the way they think they should.

It's a matter of the RESULTS of having voted the way they DO. The results in education, poverty, unemployment, illegitimate births, crime, and all sorts of other things aren't what I would think any black would believe is acceptable. By their continuing to vote for the same people that have produced those results, logic says they either aren't thinking or they don't have a problem with the results. When you ask why, you get things to the effect of "at least Democrats try".

But they do try. Republicans demean us, not even the courtesy of listening to us.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[Conservative65]

Like other categories of people, the way black people are supposed to think has already been predetermined.

For those that can think for themselves, they cannot get behind conservative politics because they feel under attack by conservatives. They would not be wrong.

The rest are dependent on the government, and are content being served by liberal policies.

Sums it up quite nicely. Conservatives refuse to believe blacks can actually think for themselves, because they don't vote the way they think they should.

It's a matter of the RESULTS of having voted the way they DO. The results in education, poverty, unemployment, illegitimate births, crime, and all sorts of other things aren't what I would think any black would believe is acceptable. By their continuing to vote for the same people that have produced those results, logic says they either aren't thinking or they don't have a problem with the results. When you ask why, you get things to the effect of "at least Democrats try".

But they do try. Republicans demean us, not even the courtesy of listening to us.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

So you're another one that thinks saying look at the results of having voted for Democrats is demeaning you? Do you consider a doctor telling someone that is obese they need to eat better and exercise more as demeaning?

You've been heard and all you're saying is that you want more GIVEN to you in the way of jobs training programs, education, jobs, etc. That's been done by the Democrats for 50 years and it hasn't done a damn thing. If you're OK with the results because they TRIED, continue doing the same thing. They'll accept your excuses and give you more.

 

[MarcATL]

one thing that I just have not understood is the idea of a black person also being a democrat

You should try talking to a black person about your lack of understanding. You MIGHT learn something. But I doubt it.

I mentor black youth in STEM and I will tell you they are shocked to learn about you democrats and the historical and institutional racism of your democrat party....

I've enlightened many a black mind....how many have you enslaved?

Let's be fair here.

The old democratic party is closer in ideology to the current republican party, and vice versa.

Red:
Spot on!

I'm sure you've seen the lack of intellectual integrity shown by folks who pathetically assert Trump's merits based on a specious appeal to tradition that relies upon the Republican party, its officials, and candidates' pre-21st century (roughly) initiatives as the evidence of their claim.

• The Twentieth-Century Reversal: How Did the Republican States Switch to the Democrats and Vice Versa? -- This is a great overview type of document.
  
• How Republicans went from the party of Lincoln to the party of Trump, in 13 maps
  
• The Transformation of American Democracy: Teddy Roosevelt, the 1912 Election, and the Progressive Party -- This author argues that the beginning of the transformation of the GOP began ~1912.

I've seen folks on USMB and on the news assert that Democrats have beguiled blacks. Those folks assert that Democrats have taken the political spoils of black electoral approbation while enacting little but "double-edged window dressing" legislation aimed not only to appease blacks but also effect no genuine advancement among them. Now it's not that there're not a few kernels of validity to that claim, for there are some. But the whole matter is not a simple "tailored for a soundbite or tweet" matter, yet people routinely attempt to present it in just that way. That's just disingenuous from jump, and black folks can see that it is, even black folks who don't know what the word "disingenuous" means recognize the behavior is, they don't trust people who display it.

The problem, however, is that in making those claims, their advocates do not also own the execrable reality of the modern GOP's having become the ideological home of overt racists. Moreover, they don't ever move to evict them from the party. The problem is exacerbated when the party nominates a man like Donald Trump who almost daily displays his concinnity with overt racists. To boot, Trump himself has not by any measure denounced the racists who have publicly endorsed him. The closest he came to it was to say he's not responsible for whom they choose to endorse. There again, however, few and far between are the Republicans who show the integrity it takes to openly chide Trump for his wishy-washy response to the racists in the GOP.

So when one gets down to brass tacks, the GOP just doesn't come off as credible when it comes to matters of race.

• The bulk of racists are clearly in the GOP.
• The GOP's leader doesn't tell them to go elsewhere and neither do other party leaders.
• Other party leaders do the "wink and nod" thing as goes their leader and the overt GOP racists.
• The party leader doesn't identify specific plans/tactics he'd used to improve blacks' situation.
• The party leader doesn't appear before black audiences or speak at black events.

In contrast, for whatever shades of complex truth there are as goes the "Democrats have been ruinous for blacks" argument, at the very least, Democrats at least openly denounce the racists. No, the Dems have been no godsend for blacks, but the problem there is that blacks haven't returned to a point that they have the political power to hold Democrat legislators fully accountable to them, but blacks are gradually building that power. If they were to realign themselves with Republicans, they'd have to start all over again building the political power base to hold the GOP accountable, and they'd have to find a way to cast out the overt racists in the GOP, thereby deferring even more their achieving that end. What's the point of doing that? None.

Post of the thread.

*one-man standing ovation*

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[320 Years of History]

Apparently you and the 95% of blacks that vote Democrat have looked at the results blacks have had by supporting Democrats. Blacks fall behind in many social, educational, economic categories where low isn't better. The same applies when they're higher than others and high isn't better.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what you intend the second and third statements above to mean in context with the first one. I'll show you why not...

Broken down, what you've written is this:

I and black folks have looked at a set of results --> Blacks fall behind in areas where "low" isn't better --> Blacks also fall behind in areas where high isn't better.​

Hopefully my having broken it down for you helps you see the incoherence of that sequence of ideas that are all in one paragraph, yet have no real relation to each other. There is likely some idea (maybe a sentence's worth; maybe a paragraphs' worth, I don't know...) that you've left unstated and that rightly belongs between the first and second sentences to connect their ideas, but I have no way to tell what it may be. So that's why I'm asking you to clarify your remarks.

In areas like education, income, etc. where being on the low end of the scale isn't good, many blacks are on that low end. They finish high school at a lower rate than other groups. They have average income lower than other groups. Being lower here isn't like a golf score. It's not good.

In areas like illegitimate birth rates, poverty, unemployment, etc. blacks tend to have higher percentages in those areas where having a higher percentage isn't good. Blacks have an illegitimate birth rate at over 70%. Blacks are in poverty more than any other group. Blacks have higher unemployment than any other group.

50 years of Democrat voting at a high percentage among blacks and black continue to vote Democrat. The party that claims to be the one helping blacks has produced disastrous results. When you ask "why?" you get answer that place the slavery card or things to the effect of "at least Democrats try".

Okay. That's considerably clearer; now I understand what you mean. TY.

The point was you have a group of people voting for a certain political party at a 95% rate despite the results of having done so at that percentage for 50 years. When it's pointed out, the claim is it's an attack. It's no more of an attack than a doctor telling someone that is obese what they've been eating and not exercising has produced.

Preface:
I just addressed your remarks directly in another post in this thread, so below, I'll write a bit more broadly on the matter.

In this country, "American" means white. Everybody else has to hyphenate.
-- Toni Morrison​

I'm not going to sit here and aver I don't know what you are talking about, but I'm also not willing to engage in the sort of simplistic discussion on the matter -- one that people make out to be straightforward but is no more so than is the Rio Grande (use the slider to zoom in and out).

You see, in my own experience, I observe that many, perhaps most, white people see racism as conscious hate, yet racism is more than that. Racism is a complex system of social and political levers and pulleys set up generations ago to continue working on the behalf of whites at other people’s expense, whether whites know/like it or not.

Racism is an insidious cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn’t care if one is a white person who likes black people; it’s still going to find a way to infect how one deals with people who don’t look like "you."

Yes, of course, racism looks like hate, but hate is just one manifestation. Privilege is another. Access is another. Ignorance is another. Apathy is another. And so on. It is a powerful system into which we’re immediately born. It’s like being born into air: one takes it in as soon as one breathes. It’s not a cold that one can get over. There is no anti-racist certification class. It’s a set of socioeconomic traps and cultural values ignited every time we interact with others. It is a thing one must keep scooping out of the boat of one's life to keep from drowning in it. I know it’s hard work, but it’s the price one pays for owning everything.

The preceding, along with the fact that altruism toward them is just not a thing that black folks believe is reliably extant among whites in general, is what underlies the perceptions Republicans must overcome before this "Democrats have been of no use to blacks" (or a similar/related) argument will ever be taken seriously by black people. The arguments to that effect which folks, on USMB and elsewhere, in their quest to "cut to the chase," present do nothing to diminish those feelings, most especially not when they issue from folks who routinely display levels of partisanship that defy all, all....I don't know what...I don't even know if I have a word for what it defies, but it's a lot something....

Moving on....I don't care how fast white folks think the transition should occur, I know damn well (1) whites are in control of how quickly and effectively it happens, and (2) the slate of some 200+ years of killings, ill will, betrayed trust, etc. isn't going to go away in 50 years, a lustrum or 15 months. It's just not. And it's as naive to think it would as it is to think it could, especially seeing as there are literally millions of folks -- black and white -- who lived through that crap, and who teach their kids -- presumably doing so with the idea that it's for their kid's own good -- the attitudes they lived with back then. We all need to be real, the goal clearly there among ever more people -- of all races -- but it's still somewhere over the rainbow.

​

​

 

[Conservative65]

Apparently you and the 95% of blacks that vote Democrat have looked at the results blacks have had by supporting Democrats. Blacks fall behind in many social, educational, economic categories where low isn't better. The same applies when they're higher than others and high isn't better.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what you intend the second and third statements above to mean in context with the first one. I'll show you why not...

Broken down, what you've written is this:

I and black folks have looked at a set of results --> Blacks fall behind in areas where "low" isn't better --> Blacks also fall behind in areas where high isn't better.​

Hopefully my having broken it down for you helps you see the incoherence of that sequence of ideas that are all in one paragraph, yet have no real relation to each other. There is likely some idea (maybe a sentence's worth; maybe a paragraphs' worth, I don't know...) that you've left unstated and that rightly belongs between the first and second sentences to connect their ideas, but I have no way to tell what it may be. So that's why I'm asking you to clarify your remarks.

In areas like education, income, etc. where being on the low end of the scale isn't good, many blacks are on that low end. They finish high school at a lower rate than other groups. They have average income lower than other groups. Being lower here isn't like a golf score. It's not good.

In areas like illegitimate birth rates, poverty, unemployment, etc. blacks tend to have higher percentages in those areas where having a higher percentage isn't good. Blacks have an illegitimate birth rate at over 70%. Blacks are in poverty more than any other group. Blacks have higher unemployment than any other group.

50 years of Democrat voting at a high percentage among blacks and black continue to vote Democrat. The party that claims to be the one helping blacks has produced disastrous results. When you ask "why?" you get answer that place the slavery card or things to the effect of "at least Democrats try".

Okay. That's considerably clearer; now I understand what you mean. TY.

The point was you have a group of people voting for a certain political party at a 95% rate despite the results of having done so at that percentage for 50 years. When it's pointed out, the claim is it's an attack. It's no more of an attack than a doctor telling someone that is obese what they've been eating and not exercising has produced.

Preface:
I just addressed your remarks directly in another post in this thread, so below, I'll write a bit more broadly on the matter.

In this country, "American" means white. Everybody else has to hyphenate.
-- Toni Morrison​

I'm not going to sit here and aver I don't know what you are talking about, but I'm also not willing to engage in the sort of simplistic discussion on the matter -- one that people make out to be straightforward but is no more so than is the Rio Grande (use the slider to zoom in and out).

You see, in my own experience, I observe that many, perhaps most, white people see racism as conscious hate, yet racism is more than that. Racism is a complex system of social and political levers and pulleys set up generations ago to continue working on the behalf of whites at other people’s expense, whether whites know/like it or not.

Racism is an insidious cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn’t care if one is a white person who likes black people; it’s still going to find a way to infect how one deals with people who don’t look like "you."

Yes, of course, racism looks like hate, but hate is just one manifestation. Privilege is another. Access is another. Ignorance is another. Apathy is another. And so on. It is a powerful system into which we’re immediately born. It’s like being born into air: one takes it in as soon as one breathes. It’s not a cold that one can get over. There is no anti-racist certification class. It’s a set of socioeconomic traps and cultural values ignited every time we interact with others. It is a thing one must keep scooping out of the boat of one's life to keep from drowning in it. I know it’s hard work, but it’s the price one pays for owning everything.

The preceding, along with the fact that altruism toward them is just not a thing that black folks believe is reliably extant among whites in general, is what underlies the perceptions Republicans must overcome before this "Democrats have been of no use to blacks" (or a similar/related) argument will ever be taken seriously by black people. The arguments to that effect which folks, on USMB and elsewhere, in their quest to "cut to the chase," present do nothing to diminish those feelings, most especially not when they issue from folks who routinely display levels of partisanship that defy all, all....I don't know what...I don't even know if I have a word for what it defies, but it's a lot something....

Moving on....I don't care how fast white folks think the transition should occur, I know damn well (1) whites are in control of how quickly and effectively it happens, and (2) the slate of some 200+ years of killings, ill will, betrayed trust, etc. isn't going to go away in 50 years, a lustrum or 15 months. It's just not. And it's as naive to think it would as it is to think it could, especially seeing as there are literally millions of folks -- black and white -- who lived through that crap, and who teach their kids -- presumably doing so with the idea that it's for their kid's own good -- the attitudes they lived with back then. We all need to be real, the goal clearly there among ever more people -- of all races -- but it's still somewhere over the rainbow.

​

​

Someone should explain to Toni that use the of the hyphenated term African-American came about as a result of a black using it. It goes back to the 1980s.

Terms like German-American, Italian-American, etc. are used and the vast majority of them are white.

 

[320 Years of History]

I'm sorry, but I don't know what you intend the second and third statements above to mean in context with the first one. I'll show you why not...

Broken down, what you've written is this:

I and black folks have looked at a set of results --> Blacks fall behind in areas where "low" isn't better --> Blacks also fall behind in areas where high isn't better.​

Hopefully my having broken it down for you helps you see the incoherence of that sequence of ideas that are all in one paragraph, yet have no real relation to each other. There is likely some idea (maybe a sentence's worth; maybe a paragraphs' worth, I don't know...) that you've left unstated and that rightly belongs between the first and second sentences to connect their ideas, but I have no way to tell what it may be. So that's why I'm asking you to clarify your remarks.

In areas like education, income, etc. where being on the low end of the scale isn't good, many blacks are on that low end. They finish high school at a lower rate than other groups. They have average income lower than other groups. Being lower here isn't like a golf score. It's not good.

In areas like illegitimate birth rates, poverty, unemployment, etc. blacks tend to have higher percentages in those areas where having a higher percentage isn't good. Blacks have an illegitimate birth rate at over 70%. Blacks are in poverty more than any other group. Blacks have higher unemployment than any other group.

50 years of Democrat voting at a high percentage among blacks and black continue to vote Democrat. The party that claims to be the one helping blacks has produced disastrous results. When you ask "why?" you get answer that place the slavery card or things to the effect of "at least Democrats try".

Okay. That's considerably clearer; now I understand what you mean. TY.

The point was you have a group of people voting for a certain political party at a 95% rate despite the results of having done so at that percentage for 50 years. When it's pointed out, the claim is it's an attack. It's no more of an attack than a doctor telling someone that is obese what they've been eating and not exercising has produced.

Preface:
I just addressed your remarks directly in another post in this thread, so below, I'll write a bit more broadly on the matter.

In this country, "American" means white. Everybody else has to hyphenate.
-- Toni Morrison​

I'm not going to sit here and aver I don't know what you are talking about, but I'm also not willing to engage in the sort of simplistic discussion on the matter -- one that people make out to be straightforward but is no more so than is the Rio Grande (use the slider to zoom in and out).

You see, in my own experience, I observe that many, perhaps most, white people see racism as conscious hate, yet racism is more than that. Racism is a complex system of social and political levers and pulleys set up generations ago to continue working on the behalf of whites at other people’s expense, whether whites know/like it or not.

Racism is an insidious cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn’t care if one is a white person who likes black people; it’s still going to find a way to infect how one deals with people who don’t look like "you."

Yes, of course, racism looks like hate, but hate is just one manifestation. Privilege is another. Access is another. Ignorance is another. Apathy is another. And so on. It is a powerful system into which we’re immediately born. It’s like being born into air: one takes it in as soon as one breathes. It’s not a cold that one can get over. There is no anti-racist certification class. It’s a set of socioeconomic traps and cultural values ignited every time we interact with others. It is a thing one must keep scooping out of the boat of one's life to keep from drowning in it. I know it’s hard work, but it’s the price one pays for owning everything.

The preceding, along with the fact that altruism toward them is just not a thing that black folks believe is reliably extant among whites in general, is what underlies the perceptions Republicans must overcome before this "Democrats have been of no use to blacks" (or a similar/related) argument will ever be taken seriously by black people. The arguments to that effect which folks, on USMB and elsewhere, in their quest to "cut to the chase," present do nothing to diminish those feelings, most especially not when they issue from folks who routinely display levels of partisanship that defy all, all....I don't know what...I don't even know if I have a word for what it defies, but it's a lot something....

Moving on....I don't care how fast white folks think the transition should occur, I know damn well (1) whites are in control of how quickly and effectively it happens, and (2) the slate of some 200+ years of killings, ill will, betrayed trust, etc. isn't going to go away in 50 years, a lustrum or 15 months. It's just not. And it's as naive to think it would as it is to think it could, especially seeing as there are literally millions of folks -- black and white -- who lived through that crap, and who teach their kids -- presumably doing so with the idea that it's for their kid's own good -- the attitudes they lived with back then. We all need to be real, the goal clearly there among ever more people -- of all races -- but it's still somewhere over the rainbow.

​

​

Someone should explain to Toni that use the of the hyphenated term African-American came about as a result of a black using it. It goes back to the 1980s.

Terms like German-American, Italian-American, etc. are used and the vast majority of them are white.

Okay...TY for sharing that. I'll have you to thank when I see that as a clue on Jeopardy.

Out of curiosity:

• Was Ms. Morrison's quote as far as you got in the post?
  • If no, have you any thoughts to offer about the more substantive elements of it?
  • If no, is the extant and absolute accuracy of the epistemological origins of a hyphen all you felt deserving of your consideration and comments?

 

[SYTFE]

I am not going to lead anyone wrong. I spend thousands of hours vetting information and attacking it from as many angles as I can because I feel responsible lest I lead someone astray. It was four and a half years ago that I was transferred to a suburb of Detroit, Michigan for my job. I was 48 at the time and I had what I thought was a firm belief system but I found that what I thought and believed was wrong. Detroit was like a third world country...poverty stricken with so little opportunity for those wanting a better life. It totally rocked me because I was from Dallas, Texas.....life was good but I found that I had been living in a bubble.So I went on a mission to learn the truth about what we are facing. I was in a strange city, didn't know anyone but those at my job so I became a recluse and all I did was read and research. I listened to documentaries, lectures and old news stories. I jotted down notes if I was at work so I could do proper vetting of the information I was digesting. I did this for two years before I started posting on-line again. I did a lot of soul searching and I did a lot of praying for direction. I became a soldier dedicated to a mission of waking people up.

I was ill-prepared for the attacks that came my way via the trolls but I was confident enough in what I had worked hard to learn that I never backed down. I have had over 2,000 posts deleted on various blog-sites where I detail the fraud of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and how the income tax law /16th amendment that was only validated by FOUR states which was FAR short of the number of states to pass it into law had been struck down by the SCOTUS 4 times.. I went back through our real history, downloaded books and read them until I went to sleep. There is so much information out there but it's not gonna come looking for you. We have been programmed by the te-lie-vision and programmed using the latest techniques of the Tavistock Institute to never question "authority". Excuse me? I believe that we not only have the right to question authority but the moral duty to do so....and that is what I do. It has been a long, arduous journey and a road that I will admit that I have had times that I wish I had never ventured down this path and wish that this cup had been passed from me....but I believe that God put this warrior spirit in me because I have never been shy about standing up for others.

 

[ptbw forever]

Blacks = group think.

^Wonders why Blacks don't vote Republican.

Democrats are lucky there are still white people dumb enough to vote and campaign for them after the shit that has been pulled for the past few decades.

 

[ptbw forever]

one thing that I just have not understood is the idea of a black person also being a democrat

You should try talking to a black person about your lack of understanding. You MIGHT learn something. But I doubt it.

I mentor black youth in STEM and I will tell you they are shocked to learn about you democrats and the historical and institutional racism of your democrat party....

I've enlightened many a black mind....how many have you enslaved?

Let's be fair here.

The old democratic party is closer in ideology to the current republican party, and vice versa.

As is the old Republican Party.

The new Democratic Party is way outside any past American political party.

 

[ptbw forever]

With what Democrats support on many issues important to Christians, it's easy to see why they tend to favor Republicans.

When the results of blacks having voted Democrat for 50 years are what they are, there are two options as to why blacks continue to vote Democrat. It's either because they know but don't care or they, as you seem to think, don't know and are apathetic. There isn't an in between.

Neither side fully benefits the other.

It isn't like there are not issues that cause black Americans to continue to vote for the Democratic Party. Whether you agree or disagree with the means the Democratic party employs, they seem to be the only ones representing black Americans. Black Americans have a tendency to get attacked from the right.

White Americans are attacked by the "left" every second.

There isn't even a fucking Salon or Huffington Post on the right dedicating half their articles to overt racism against blacks, much less a Comedy Central, NPR, MSNBC, CNN etc.

 

[ptbw forever]

one thing that I just have not understood is the idea of a black person also being a democrat

You should try talking to a black person about your lack of understanding. You MIGHT learn something. But I doubt it.

I mentor black youth in STEM and I will tell you they are shocked to learn about you democrats and the historical and institutional racism of your democrat party....

I've enlightened many a black mind....how many have you enslaved?

Let's be fair here.

The old democratic party is closer in ideology to the current republican party, and vice versa.

Red:
Spot on!

I'm sure you've seen the lack of intellectual integrity shown by folks who pathetically assert Trump's merits based on a specious appeal to tradition that relies upon the Republican party, its officials, and candidates' pre-21st century (roughly) initiatives as the evidence of their claim.

• The Twentieth-Century Reversal: How Did the Republican States Switch to the Democrats and Vice Versa? -- This is a great overview type of document.
  
• How Republicans went from the party of Lincoln to the party of Trump, in 13 maps
  
• The Transformation of American Democracy: Teddy Roosevelt, the 1912 Election, and the Progressive Party -- This author argues that the beginning of the transformation of the GOP began ~1912.

I've seen folks on USMB and on the news assert that Democrats have beguiled blacks. Those folks assert that Democrats have taken the political spoils of black electoral approbation while enacting little but "double-edged window dressing" legislation aimed not only to appease blacks but also effect no genuine advancement among them. Now it's not that there're not a few kernels of validity to that claim, for there are some. But the whole matter is not a simple "tailored for a soundbite or tweet" matter, yet people routinely attempt to present it in just that way. That's just disingenuous from jump, and black folks can see that it is, even black folks who don't know what the word "disingenuous" means recognize the behavior is, they don't trust people who display it.

The problem, however, is that in making those claims, their advocates do not also own the execrable reality of the modern GOP's having become the ideological home of overt racists. Moreover, they don't ever move to evict them from the party. The problem is exacerbated when the party nominates a man like Donald Trump who almost daily displays his concinnity with overt racists. To boot, Trump himself has not by any measure denounced the racists who have publicly endorsed him. The closest he came to it was to say he's not responsible for whom they choose to endorse. There again, however, few and far between are the Republicans who show the integrity it takes to openly chide Trump for his wishy-washy response to the racists in the GOP.

So when one gets down to brass tacks, the GOP just doesn't come off as credible when it comes to matters of race.

• The bulk of racists are clearly in the GOP.
• The GOP's leader doesn't tell them to go elsewhere and neither do other party leaders.
• Other party leaders do the "wink and nod" thing as goes their leader and the overt GOP racists.
• The party leader doesn't identify specific plans/tactics he'd used to improve blacks' situation.
• The party leader doesn't appear before black audiences or speak at black events.

In contrast, for whatever shades of complex truth there are as goes the "Democrats have been ruinous for blacks" argument, at the very least, Democrats at least openly denounce the racists. No, the Dems have been no godsend for blacks, but the problem there is that blacks haven't returned to a point that they have the political power to hold Democrat legislators fully accountable to them, but blacks are gradually building that power. If they were to realign themselves with Republicans, they'd have to start all over again building the political power base to hold the GOP accountable, and they'd have to find a way to cast out the overt racists in the GOP, thereby deferring even more their achieving that end. What's the point of doing that? None.

^Literally claiming racists are all white.

No wonder smart white people don't vote Democrat.

 

[320 Years of History]

one thing that I just have not understood is the idea of a black person also being a democrat

You should try talking to a black person about your lack of understanding. You MIGHT learn something. But I doubt it.

I mentor black youth in STEM and I will tell you they are shocked to learn about you democrats and the historical and institutional racism of your democrat party....

I've enlightened many a black mind....how many have you enslaved?

Let's be fair here.

The old democratic party is closer in ideology to the current republican party, and vice versa.

Red:
Spot on!

I'm sure you've seen the lack of intellectual integrity shown by folks who pathetically assert Trump's merits based on a specious appeal to tradition that relies upon the Republican party, its officials, and candidates' pre-21st century (roughly) initiatives as the evidence of their claim.

• The Twentieth-Century Reversal: How Did the Republican States Switch to the Democrats and Vice Versa? -- This is a great overview type of document.
  
• How Republicans went from the party of Lincoln to the party of Trump, in 13 maps
  
• The Transformation of American Democracy: Teddy Roosevelt, the 1912 Election, and the Progressive Party -- This author argues that the beginning of the transformation of the GOP began ~1912.

I've seen folks on USMB and on the news assert that Democrats have beguiled blacks. Those folks assert that Democrats have taken the political spoils of black electoral approbation while enacting little but "double-edged window dressing" legislation aimed not only to appease blacks but also effect no genuine advancement among them. Now it's not that there're not a few kernels of validity to that claim, for there are some. But the whole matter is not a simple "tailored for a soundbite or tweet" matter, yet people routinely attempt to present it in just that way. That's just disingenuous from jump, and black folks can see that it is, even black folks who don't know what the word "disingenuous" means recognize the behavior is, they don't trust people who display it.

The problem, however, is that in making those claims, their advocates do not also own the execrable reality of the modern GOP's having become the ideological home of overt racists. Moreover, they don't ever move to evict them from the party. The problem is exacerbated when the party nominates a man like Donald Trump who almost daily displays his concinnity with overt racists. To boot, Trump himself has not by any measure denounced the racists who have publicly endorsed him. The closest he came to it was to say he's not responsible for whom they choose to endorse. There again, however, few and far between are the Republicans who show the integrity it takes to openly chide Trump for his wishy-washy response to the racists in the GOP.

So when one gets down to brass tacks, the GOP just doesn't come off as credible when it comes to matters of race.

• The bulk of racists are clearly in the GOP.
• The GOP's leader doesn't tell them to go elsewhere and neither do other party leaders.
• Other party leaders do the "wink and nod" thing as goes their leader and the overt GOP racists.
• The party leader doesn't identify specific plans/tactics he'd used to improve blacks' situation.
• The party leader doesn't appear before black audiences or speak at black events.

In contrast, for whatever shades of complex truth there are as goes the "Democrats have been ruinous for blacks" argument, at the very least, Democrats at least openly denounce the racists. No, the Dems have been no godsend for blacks, but the problem there is that blacks haven't returned to a point that they have the political power to hold Democrat legislators fully accountable to them, but blacks are gradually building that power. If they were to realign themselves with Republicans, they'd have to start all over again building the political power base to hold the GOP accountable, and they'd have to find a way to cast out the overt racists in the GOP, thereby deferring even more their achieving that end. What's the point of doing that? None.

^Literally claiming racists are all white.

No wonder smart white people don't vote Democrat.

Red:
I don't know your racial makeup, and I neither need or want to, but I do know from the qualitative insufficiency, and unsupportability of your comments, and not just the one above, that description doesn't fit you, and that the "white" part of it has no bearing on whether it may have or not.

 

[ptbw forever]

You should try talking to a black person about your lack of understanding. You MIGHT learn something. But I doubt it.

I mentor black youth in STEM and I will tell you they are shocked to learn about you democrats and the historical and institutional racism of your democrat party....

I've enlightened many a black mind....how many have you enslaved?

Let's be fair here.

The old democratic party is closer in ideology to the current republican party, and vice versa.

Red:
Spot on!

I'm sure you've seen the lack of intellectual integrity shown by folks who pathetically assert Trump's merits based on a specious appeal to tradition that relies upon the Republican party, its officials, and candidates' pre-21st century (roughly) initiatives as the evidence of their claim.

• The Twentieth-Century Reversal: How Did the Republican States Switch to the Democrats and Vice Versa? -- This is a great overview type of document.
  
• How Republicans went from the party of Lincoln to the party of Trump, in 13 maps
  
• The Transformation of American Democracy: Teddy Roosevelt, the 1912 Election, and the Progressive Party -- This author argues that the beginning of the transformation of the GOP began ~1912.

I've seen folks on USMB and on the news assert that Democrats have beguiled blacks. Those folks assert that Democrats have taken the political spoils of black electoral approbation while enacting little but "double-edged window dressing" legislation aimed not only to appease blacks but also effect no genuine advancement among them. Now it's not that there're not a few kernels of validity to that claim, for there are some. But the whole matter is not a simple "tailored for a soundbite or tweet" matter, yet people routinely attempt to present it in just that way. That's just disingenuous from jump, and black folks can see that it is, even black folks who don't know what the word "disingenuous" means recognize the behavior is, they don't trust people who display it.

The problem, however, is that in making those claims, their advocates do not also own the execrable reality of the modern GOP's having become the ideological home of overt racists. Moreover, they don't ever move to evict them from the party. The problem is exacerbated when the party nominates a man like Donald Trump who almost daily displays his concinnity with overt racists. To boot, Trump himself has not by any measure denounced the racists who have publicly endorsed him. The closest he came to it was to say he's not responsible for whom they choose to endorse. There again, however, few and far between are the Republicans who show the integrity it takes to openly chide Trump for his wishy-washy response to the racists in the GOP.

So when one gets down to brass tacks, the GOP just doesn't come off as credible when it comes to matters of race.

• The bulk of racists are clearly in the GOP.
• The GOP's leader doesn't tell them to go elsewhere and neither do other party leaders.
• Other party leaders do the "wink and nod" thing as goes their leader and the overt GOP racists.
• The party leader doesn't identify specific plans/tactics he'd used to improve blacks' situation.
• The party leader doesn't appear before black audiences or speak at black events.

In contrast, for whatever shades of complex truth there are as goes the "Democrats have been ruinous for blacks" argument, at the very least, Democrats at least openly denounce the racists. No, the Dems have been no godsend for blacks, but the problem there is that blacks haven't returned to a point that they have the political power to hold Democrat legislators fully accountable to them, but blacks are gradually building that power. If they were to realign themselves with Republicans, they'd have to start all over again building the political power base to hold the GOP accountable, and they'd have to find a way to cast out the overt racists in the GOP, thereby deferring even more their achieving that end. What's the point of doing that? None.

^Literally claiming racists are all white.

No wonder smart white people don't vote Democrat.

Red:
I don't know your racial makeup, and I neither need or want to, but I do know from the qualitative insufficiency, and unsupportability of your comments, and not just the one above, that description doesn't fit you, and that the "white" part of it has no bearing on whether it may have or not.

You might want to read your post above mine.

You said Democrats "at least openly denounce the racists", when it is quite clear that neither Hillary, nor any other top Democrat has denounced any of the growing racism coming from non-white communities(as demonstrated in Dallas and other cities in the past 5 years).

This country is less than 70% white with a good portion of white people being too old to even interact with the general populace, and that means that over 30% of the racism in this country is non-white already according to the egalitarian-based philosophy progressives claim to support.

Until Democrats stop trying to defend the overtly racist teachings of Francis Cress Welsing(who is moderately popular in black America and with black people the world over), and Malcolm X as "righteous anger", Democrats will never be able to truly claim any progressive high ground.

 

[Conservative65]

In areas like education, income, etc. where being on the low end of the scale isn't good, many blacks are on that low end. They finish high school at a lower rate than other groups. They have average income lower than other groups. Being lower here isn't like a golf score. It's not good.

In areas like illegitimate birth rates, poverty, unemployment, etc. blacks tend to have higher percentages in those areas where having a higher percentage isn't good. Blacks have an illegitimate birth rate at over 70%. Blacks are in poverty more than any other group. Blacks have higher unemployment than any other group.

50 years of Democrat voting at a high percentage among blacks and black continue to vote Democrat. The party that claims to be the one helping blacks has produced disastrous results. When you ask "why?" you get answer that place the slavery card or things to the effect of "at least Democrats try".

Okay. That's considerably clearer; now I understand what you mean. TY.

The point was you have a group of people voting for a certain political party at a 95% rate despite the results of having done so at that percentage for 50 years. When it's pointed out, the claim is it's an attack. It's no more of an attack than a doctor telling someone that is obese what they've been eating and not exercising has produced.

Preface:
I just addressed your remarks directly in another post in this thread, so below, I'll write a bit more broadly on the matter.

In this country, "American" means white. Everybody else has to hyphenate.
-- Toni Morrison​

I'm not going to sit here and aver I don't know what you are talking about, but I'm also not willing to engage in the sort of simplistic discussion on the matter -- one that people make out to be straightforward but is no more so than is the Rio Grande (use the slider to zoom in and out).

You see, in my own experience, I observe that many, perhaps most, white people see racism as conscious hate, yet racism is more than that. Racism is a complex system of social and political levers and pulleys set up generations ago to continue working on the behalf of whites at other people’s expense, whether whites know/like it or not.

Racism is an insidious cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn’t care if one is a white person who likes black people; it’s still going to find a way to infect how one deals with people who don’t look like "you."

Yes, of course, racism looks like hate, but hate is just one manifestation. Privilege is another. Access is another. Ignorance is another. Apathy is another. And so on. It is a powerful system into which we’re immediately born. It’s like being born into air: one takes it in as soon as one breathes. It’s not a cold that one can get over. There is no anti-racist certification class. It’s a set of socioeconomic traps and cultural values ignited every time we interact with others. It is a thing one must keep scooping out of the boat of one's life to keep from drowning in it. I know it’s hard work, but it’s the price one pays for owning everything.

The preceding, along with the fact that altruism toward them is just not a thing that black folks believe is reliably extant among whites in general, is what underlies the perceptions Republicans must overcome before this "Democrats have been of no use to blacks" (or a similar/related) argument will ever be taken seriously by black people. The arguments to that effect which folks, on USMB and elsewhere, in their quest to "cut to the chase," present do nothing to diminish those feelings, most especially not when they issue from folks who routinely display levels of partisanship that defy all, all....I don't know what...I don't even know if I have a word for what it defies, but it's a lot something....

Moving on....I don't care how fast white folks think the transition should occur, I know damn well (1) whites are in control of how quickly and effectively it happens, and (2) the slate of some 200+ years of killings, ill will, betrayed trust, etc. isn't going to go away in 50 years, a lustrum or 15 months. It's just not. And it's as naive to think it would as it is to think it could, especially seeing as there are literally millions of folks -- black and white -- who lived through that crap, and who teach their kids -- presumably doing so with the idea that it's for their kid's own good -- the attitudes they lived with back then. We all need to be real, the goal clearly there among ever more people -- of all races -- but it's still somewhere over the rainbow.

​

​

Someone should explain to Toni that use the of the hyphenated term African-American came about as a result of a black using it. It goes back to the 1980s.

Terms like German-American, Italian-American, etc. are used and the vast majority of them are white.

Okay...TY for sharing that. I'll have you to thank when I see that as a clue on Jeopardy.

Out of curiosity:

• Was Ms. Morrison's quote as far as you got in the post?
  • If no, have you any thoughts to offer about the more substantive elements of it?
  • If no, is the extant and absolute accuracy of the epistemological origins of a hyphen all you felt deserving of your consideration and comments?

The last paragraph sticks out, too. She referenced slavery and implied the white privilege nonsense.

Doesn't change what I said.