Some Oregon schools adopting Mexican curriculum

Discussion in 'Education' started by Angel Heart, Sep 19, 2007.

  1. Angel Heart
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    Angel Heart Conservative Hippie

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    http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_091907_education_mexican_curriculum_.ede64566.html
     
  2. Angel Heart
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    Angel Heart Conservative Hippie

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    Had enough yet people? Now we have kids being taught US History by Mexico.
     
  3. jasendorf
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    jasendorf Senior Member

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    So? Do you have a specific problem with a specific textbook? A problem with a specific item in a Mexican textbook? Or, are you just relying on xenophobia to get a bunch of people all whipped up in a frenzy?
     
  4. Shogun
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    I would argue that a PUBLIC school has responsibility to teach a common language since the funding comes from a nation whose national language is English. If spanish speakers want spanish speaking teachers and lessons then they should pay for such in a private spanish speaking school just like christians who want their kids to learn that gravity is just a theory.

    It's not a matter or xenophobia. It's an indication of a LARGER problem. You may not see illegal aliens as a problem but many Americans do and their concerns are as valid as anything on your pet issue dish.


    Why would you want to pay taxes to instill christianty? Why would America want to pay taxes to minimalize the imporance of learning English while living in America?

    "We were having trouble bringing something that would be familiar to their culture."


    WHY would Americans want to pay to teach Spanish speaking kids ABOUT THEIR OWN CULTURE? Especially, if they are now supposedly American, since AMERICA would be their culture?



    This only enables bad behaviour. Might as well be showing the fat kid how to steal cookies from the grocery store.
     
  5. jasendorf
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    jasendorf Senior Member

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    Your argument, Shogun, relies on a predication that the school is not teaching these children English. This is, as described in the article, incorrect. These schools are teaching English as well as other subjects to these children. To do so concurrently requires some fancy footwork that these schools have chosen to undertake.

    Are you actually suggesting that all other subjects be put on hold for students until they've mastered English well enough to discuss everything from chemical interactions to quadratic equations to the War of 1812?

    And, really, are you attempting to equate language with religion? Do I really have to lay down a list of reasons of why this analogy is ridiculous? Let's just pretend you didn't make the analogy and move on...

    It behooves any state or nation to have future generations who can read and write the country's de facto language regardless of that language's legal status, we can all agree on that. But, to teach other skills such as math and science and history in addition to that language are equally important. If doing both concurrently requires an interim period of teaching in both the language of the country and the language of a substantial minority with a different first language... the state owes it to itself to do the work to make that happen to create future generations of English speakers and math doers.
     
  6. Shogun
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    "Your argument, Shogun, relies on a predication that the school is not teaching these children English. This is, as described in the article, incorrect. These schools are teaching English as well as other subjects to these children. To do so concurrently requires some fancy footwork that these schools have chosen to undertake."

    Teaching english? kinda like teaching spanish in an English speaking country where it's use is hardly necessary and, thus, not picked up as quickly or as deeply as it would be if the student were thrust into a spanish speaking nation? By padding the necessity to learn English this school is using PUBLIC money to facilitate a fragmentation of a common language. Hell, Im all for learning multiple languages AS AN ELECTIVE... but in the realm of how PUBLIC taxes are spent to play catch up for those who have isolated themselves? nope.

    It's on par with thrusting christianity into schools in order to better reach christian kids. Sorry, counting by two's like Noah is not appropriate for a public school even if the theory is that christian kids will learn more.



    "Are you actually suggesting that all other subjects be put on hold for students until they've mastered English well enough to discuss everything from chemical interactions to quadratic equations to the War of 1812?"

    Im suggesting that public schools have a direct respoinsibility to educate a common American (you know, the taxpayers who pay for this stuff) curriculum and that kids who are ill equipped to follow the lessons should get the help outside of public school. Teaching spanish speaking kids about MEXICAN culture is not why we have public schools. If a kid doesn't know english because his parents never made him learn then how is this a burden on the PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM? Do we have an infinite amount of educational resources all of a sudden? Why should Joe Taxpayer shell out for a kid whose parents would rather isolate than acclimate themselves into our culture?



    "And, really, are you attempting to equate language with religion? Do I really have to lay down a list of reasons of why this analogy is ridiculous? Let's just pretend you didn't make the analogy and move on..."

    No, by all means, praytell. YOU have issues that you think is totally inapropriate for the COMMON PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM and so do the rest of America. If you can't see the direct correlation between YOUR pet issue and how this relates to those concerned about illegal immigration and preserving a common AMERICAN identity then perhaps you should skip the pompous attitude and lay it out on the table.



    "It behooves any state or nation to have future generations who can read and write the country's de facto language regardless of that language's legal status, we can all agree on that. But, to teach other skills such as math and science and history in addition to that language are equally important."

    teaching math and science is not the conflict at hand. Teaching MEXICAN CULTURE to kids who should be well on their way to acclimation into the AMERICAN culture is. What, should we have spanish language math and science too? What other crazy accomidations should the taxpayer spring for that totally minimizes the necessity of acclimating to the English speaking culture that the kids live in? Again, praytell. There are millions of taxpayers hellbent on stripping the public education sytem a new asshole in fvor of private schools who would LOVE to hear your answers.



    "If doing both concurrently requires an interim period of teaching in both the language of the country and the language of a substantial minority with a different first language... the state owes it to itself to do the work to make that happen to create future generations of English speakers and math doers."

    The state doesn't owe shit to anyone besides the taxpayers and citizens for which it serves. Especially since it's not the STATE that pays for these things; it's the taxpayer. Again, this isnt about MATH. If this kind of thing is important to a minority of the population who has already refused to gel into the culture they live in in preferance to the culture they ran like a bat out of hell from then let THEM pay for it. Otherwise, the PUBLIC school system is investing in nothing more than a fragmentation of popular American language.
     
  7. doniston
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  8. Shogun
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    Should the Mexican school curriculum be included in public schools to assist hispanic students?


    Yes
    1.41% 1 vote


    No
    98.59% 70 votes


    71 Total Votes

    same website...

    Say, I wonder how the AMERICA TAX PAYER accross the nation will vote on this...
     
  9. jasendorf
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    jasendorf Senior Member

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    "Teaching english? kinda like teaching spanish in an English speaking country where it's use is hardly necessary and, thus, not picked up as quickly or as deeply as it would be if the student were thrust into a spanish speaking nation? By padding the necessity to learn English this school is using PUBLIC money to facilitate a fragmentation of a common language. Hell, Im all for learning multiple languages AS AN ELECTIVE... but in the realm of how PUBLIC taxes are spent to play catch up for those who have isolated themselves? nope.

    It's on par with thrusting christianity into schools in order to better reach christian kids. Sorry, counting by two's like Noah is not appropriate for a public school even if the theory is that christian kids will learn more."

    Stop comparing language with religion... in general, and specifically in this context, it's just silliness. There is no comparison and your strawman argument designed to try and drag religion into the conversation is disingenuous.

    They are not exempting these students from learning English. I know my great-grandfather, who came here at the age of 15 learned English from a public school. The predominantly German community he lived in while learning English helped him adapt to his new country. You make the assumption that the parents of these children "never taught them English" and "isolated" their children simply to spite Joe Taxpayer and be a burden on Joe Taxpayer. Did you ever take into account that it is very likely that these English-deadbeat parents ARE taxpayers themselves?


    "Im suggesting that public schools have a direct respoinsibility to educate a common American (you know, the taxpayers who pay for this stuff) curriculum..."

    Maybe you should first define this "common American curriculum" for me? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what that means.


    "...and that kids who are ill equipped to follow the lessons should get the help outside of public school. Teaching spanish speaking kids about MEXICAN culture is not why we have public schools. If a kid doesn't know english because his parents never made him learn then how is this a burden on the PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM? Do we have an infinite amount of educational resources all of a sudden? Why should Joe Taxpayer shell out for a kid whose parents would rather isolate than acclimate themselves into our culture?"

    Every so often, taxpayers elect school boards... the taxpayer has had his or her say and will get to have their say again. Everything in between is the "representative" portion of a representational democracy. To act as if the taxpayer has been held captive by the people they've elected is to denounce the democratic process we've chosen. If you really want to break it down, Joe Taxpayer WANTS this by default since the representatives they elected have brought it. If they change their mind, they'll right it next election.



    "No, by all means, praytell. YOU have issues that you think is totally inapropriate for the COMMON PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM and so do the rest of America. If you can't see the direct correlation between YOUR pet issue and how this relates to those concerned about illegal immigration and preserving a common AMERICAN identity then perhaps you should skip the pompous attitude and lay it out on the table. "

    Ah, but I don't have issues with the Bible (or any other book) being used as a textbook if a teacher deems it necessary. Find yourself some wild partisan to back into that corner, you've got the wrong guy this time. My issue is with you attempting to call religion the equivalent of language. That's just dumb.

    And, since when was this an "illegal immigrant" issue? Where does the story say word one about any illegal immigrants? Now you're just making stuff up to fit your partisan viewpoint and hopefully rally others to your "cause." Is anyone who speaks Spanish an illegal immigrant now? I'll have to let the two guys in my Reserve unit who are Spanish first speakers that they're Mexican illegal immigrants... as are their children I guess... I'm pretty sure the one who hails from Puerto Rico will be astonished to this. And, the one whose mother picked tomatoes in Northwest Ohio for fifteen years (legally) (had a wonderful conversation with her during our Family Support day... but I'm glad I took four years of Spanish, it made conversing with her much easier) and now lives in Texas will be astonished to learn that her three sons serving in the U.S. military (one in Iraq right now) were not worthy of an education which helped them learn.


    "teaching math and science is not the conflict at hand. Teaching MEXICAN CULTURE to kids who should be well on their way to acclimation into the AMERICAN culture is. What, should we have spanish language math and science too? What other crazy accomidations should the taxpayer spring for that totally minimizes the necessity of acclimating to the English speaking culture that the kids live in? Again, praytell. There are millions of taxpayers hellbent on stripping the public education sytem a new asshole in fvor of private schools who would LOVE to hear your answers."

    I'm beginning to wonder if you even read the article. Spanish language math and science curricula is precisely what this is about. They're not even teaching "Mexican culture." You made that up in your head. You don't really have to teaching Spanish speaking kids about "their culture" because... well, they LIVE "their culture."

    We all know that conservatives want to turn the public education system into a system where a small group will profit wildly while those who teach will be forced into ever-decreasing job situations. This is simply another wedge-issue you can attempt to distort for that goal.


    "The state doesn't owe shit to anyone besides the taxpayers and citizens for which it serves. Especially since it's not the STATE that pays for these things; it's the taxpayer. "

    The taxpayers ARE the State in a representative democracy. Maybe you should have taken an English based civics course instead of a Spanish one?

    "Again, this isnt about MATH. "

    Well, the article posted is about math... but, maybe since you couldn't get on a soapbox about math, you chose to take some other route which has little semblance to the article itself?


    "If this kind of thing is important to a minority of the population who has already refused to gel into the culture they live in in preferance to the culture they ran like a bat out of hell from then let THEM pay for it. Otherwise, the PUBLIC school system is investing in nothing more than a fragmentation of popular American language."

    My great-grandfather learned math, science and history all in German... then he came here and, in time, learned English, fought in the Spanish American War in the Philippines, fathered 8 children (one who fought in WWI and two who fought in WWII) and now lies in a cemetery which places an American flag on his grave every year. Learning math, science and history in Spanish "fragments" our society far less than the vitriolic ***OUTRAGE*** by those who can't even discuss an article without flying wildly off tangent into wedge issues designed to divide our country rather than unite it.
     
  10. maineman
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    maineman BANNED

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    I was unaware that we HAD a "national language". Can you provide me a link to where that is delineated?
     

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