Some Oregon schools adopting Mexican curriculum

[Shogun]

And, this is how conservatives debate.
"*sigh*
"We're just ahead with all the materials," he said. "We have the Web site where students can do exercises ... they can learn through visual and audio. We were having trouble bringing something that would be familiar to their culture."""
Quoting something from an article which CONTAINS the word 'culture' in it is not the same as showing where this addresses "They're not even teaching 'Mexican culture.' You made that up in your head." This statement IS NOT the same as "teaching Mexican culture." Like I said before, and, as the quote you posted proves, you made it up in your head.
I love how this Shogun takes some online poll which has been freeped and thinks that's an argument...
Definition of "common American curricula" by Shogun - Anything taught in English.
I guess Shogun thinks school boards are established by magic beans and not elected by the votes of these ***ANGRY*** taxpayers he keeps bringing up. They got their vote... they put their representatives in place with their vote... and now those representatives are educating those who have been told, by laws established by other people also elected, who to educate. Really, all Shogun's argument is here is that taxpayers are so stupid that they elected a school board who is doing stuff they don't want them doing. I don't think they're stupid... I think the school board is doing what it has been charged with doing. And that's teaching students.
Here's a final thought though... if Shogun is so upset about the amount of dollars being spent... I wonder if he has any proof that teaching math and science to students whose first language is Spanish in English is any less expensive than teaching these subjects to them in Spanish.

Im betting the LAST think you want is a vote on issues like this. It's kinda hard to get dems elected while being held captive by the illegal immigrant issue, isnt it? Can you guess how I know this or would you rather assume that Im some rush limbaugh conservative?

I see you skipped actually addressing any of my points and, rather, took the ad hominem highway to crybabyville. It's cool, dude. I didn't figure you had it in you. Hell, why skip the personal attack when theres a shark to jump?

I doubt that you wanted to admit how America would respond to hiring spanish speaking math teachers anyway..


After all.. the results of that poll is probably totally opposite that of the opinion of the rest of America if given a chance to vote.. Indeed, they probably see curriculum from Mexico as reflective of American culture just like you do!

 

[doniston]

Should the Mexican school curriculum be included in public schools to assist hispanic students?


Yes
1.41% 1 vote


No
98.59% 70 votes


71 Total Votes

same website...

Say, I wonder how the AMERICA TAX PAYER accross the nation will vote on this...

Since we don't have nearly that many posters working this board. I doubt very much that the figures are accurate. Say WHA????

 

[Shogun]

accurate? perhaps not.

REFLECTIVE of the popular opinion considering the current issue of illegal immigration?

Id put money on that horse.


You ahve a great evening!

 

[doniston]

accurate? perhaps not.

REFLECTIVE of the popular opinion considering the current issue of illegal immigration?

Id put money on that horse.


You ahve a great evening!

Somehow, I don't think you should play "Power of ten" with that attitude. HEH HEH.

I don't think the ratio is nearly that much opposed.

 

[American First]

It's not xenophobia. It's just being an American for cryin out loud. They are taking over without firing a shot! God bless Pat Buchanan for warning us years ago. To bad he can't be President. He'd straighten this country right out. And whats with this Cico de Mayo? How is it that one country is celebrating a victory over another country, in a third country. Our country And why should we care? There are more Mexican flags flying here for the 4th of July and even 9/11. Wat up wit dat? Do you people want to assimilate here or not? And one more thing. My parents never rooted for Italy to beat America in a soccor match or anything else. Even after they lost the World Cup (To USA) most Mexicans openly rooted for Germany to beat America. At least the ones I know. That says it all. Lets wake up people. Please.

 

[jasendorf]

Shogun... the items I ignored of yours were all the ones which were completely unrelated to the argument (religion in schools, illegal immigration), magically contrived in your head and nowhere else (teaching of Mexican culture... wha???), strawman arguments or common conservative dialogue with no use to the conversation ("suck my dick"... no thanks Larry)...

Unfortunately, since that was pretty much all you had... it left me with very little to debate against.

 

[Shogun]

Somehow, I don't think you should play "Power of ten" with that attitude. HEH HEH.

I don't think the ratio is nearly that much opposed.

that, sir, would be an opinion that id gladly challenge in a poll.

nice to see Drew Carey working again.

curious to see him on the price is right.

Indeed, id bet that a higher percentage of America would to totally against lessons in spanish from Mexico that talks about juans burrito and not Washingtons fake teeth.

 

[Shogun]

Shogun... the items I ignored of yours were all the ones which were completely unrelated to the argument (religion in schools, illegal immigration), magically contrived in your head and nowhere else (teaching of Mexican culture... wha???), strawman arguments or common conservative dialogue with no use to the conversation ("suck my dick"... no thanks Larry)...

Unfortunately, since that was pretty much all you had... it left me with very little to debate against.

yea, i know.. admitting that a healthy population of America would be totally against this as much as you are against using the bible as aprimary source in the science classroom would probably sink your side of this arguement. Hell, why look at the bigger picture of illegal immigration and how it results in non-engrish speaking populations when you have to segment the arguement for any chance?

Indeed, keep with the idea that im a conservative too.. it's something of a running joke around here.


hey, if you dont want to get your hands dirty, i understand. Some guys just dont want to break a nail while debating..

 

[doniston]

Now just how in hell would you know that? How maNy espanics do you convers withnthat are senior citizens. I'm 78, and lost my brother to Germany in '42. (65 Years ago) I think you are talking out your ass.

 

[American First]

No, actually I am just saying what I see. And many others are saying it as well. Stop pretending this doesn't go on.

 

[Ruby]

When we moved to Sweden my son was only 11 years old. For the first few years he was in school here he had a right to take all his tests in English if he requested since they wanted to get an accurate reflection of his understanding of the material and not have his grades show poorly due to a LANGUAGE barrier.

He was also given special classes for english, (his native language) so that he would be on par with what he would be if he were still in the US and taking english (the thrust here is to keep a child up with his native language). That class was also there to help him interpret material he had in Swedish to english as needed.

His Swedish is sooo good that he scored in the top 10% in the national tests on the Swedish portion last year and is now attending one of the harder highschool programs. This isnt because he is some special genius. He thrived because not only did they work to teach him swedish, they incorporated his english into his studies to keep him up to par in his actual education.

BTW, english is REQUIRED in the education system here and they start at around age 7 (grade 2) and swedish is most definitely the official language. Kids are also required to pick yet another language to learn in grade 7. Nothing wrong with REQUIRING second languages to be learned by ALL students...its a GOOD thing to know more than one language. The fact that students could also speak english pretty decently was a real big plus for him and his learning swedish.

American schools should be requiring spanish to be taught from early on...its the second most spoken language in the west AND its the language of most of our own neighbors.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When we moved to Sweden my son was only 11 years old. For the first few years he was in school here he had a right to take all his tests in English if he requested since they wanted to get an accurate reflection of his understanding of the material and not have his grades show poorly due to a LANGUAGE barrier.

He was also given special classes for english, (his native language) so that he would be on par with what he would be if he were still in the US and taking english (the thrust here is to keep a child up with his native language). That class was also there to help him interpret material he had in Swedish to english as needed.

His Swedish is sooo good that he scored in the top 10% in the national tests on the Swedish portion last year and is now attending one of the harder highschool programs. This isnt because he is some special genius. He thrived because not only did they work to teach him swedish, they incorporated his english into his studies to keep him up to par in his actual education.

BTW, english is REQUIRED in the education system here and they start at around age 7 (grade 2) and swedish is most definitely the official language. Kids are also required to pick yet another language to learn in grade 7. Nothing wrong with REQUIRING second languages to be learned by ALL students...its a GOOD thing to know more than one language. The fact that students could also speak english pretty decently was a real big plus for him and his learning swedish.

American schools should be requiring spanish to be taught from early on...its the second most spoken language in the west AND its the language of most of our own neighbors.

I have no problem with Spanish being taught as a requirement in school. But only as a second language. You will note in the US we are going to a double system, where Spanish speaking children are NOT being mainstreamed ever into English classes. We should have a National language and I suggest it should be English.

 

[Ruby]

I have no problem with Spanish being taught as a requirement in school. But only as a second language. You will note in the US we are going to a double system, where Spanish speaking children are NOT being mainstreamed ever into English classes. We should have a National language and I suggest it should be English.

We can make english official, I dont have a problem with it BUT we do need to require spanish and we can help incorporate spanish speakers into the education system by HELPING them and even teaching them in Spanish as well as in english...they cant learn english overnight and helping them in their own language while also teaching them english is the best way to help keep them up in their education and is a win for all involved really.

The biggest reason we arent mainstreaming them in is because we dont have any program set up to do it....we more often have open hostility towards spanish speakers without addressing the issues in a less hostile manner and a more productive one. Of course if more americans could actually speak spanish, we would find it EASIER to mainstream then in and faster. It was VERY helpful for my son because he could communicate with kids immediately and they helped him a lot with his swedish and he helped them with their english. To be honest, its also helped ME a lot as well.

 

[Shogun]

I would never REQUIRE spanish in American public school.

I applaud electives but this is still an English speaking nation. wheather official or not.


Id love to let it be put to a vote just to clarify how democracy will indicate byond the bullshit how American's self-identify their OWN culture.

 

[Ruby]

I would never REQUIRE spanish in American public school.

I applaud electives but this is still an English speaking nation. wheather official or not.


Id love to let it be put to a vote just to clarify how democracy will indicate byond the bullshit how American's self-identify their OWN culture.

Why not....how does requiring a second language to be taught a threat to us being an english speaking nation?

Increasing education and language skills is a positive thing, not negative. Speaking another language also opens up a whole new world of literature, music, arts, information etc.

 

[jillian]

I would never REQUIRE spanish in American public school.

I applaud electives but this is still an English speaking nation. wheather official or not.


Id love to let it be put to a vote just to clarify how democracy will indicate byond the bullshit how American's self-identify their OWN culture.

When I went to school language was required. It could be French or Spanish, but nonetheless, we still had to learn a second language. I WISH I had learned spanish instead of French since I'd have found it more useful, but nothing wrong with having to learn languages. I'd also remind you that all over the world, people learn English and are far more proficient at communicating with us than we are with them. Does that mean these countries don't retain their OWN culture. Btw, what IS our culture? I suspect you'd get a different answer depending upon where you were to travel within our country.

 

[Shogun]

by fracturing the common identity of our common language. By making two cultures who will cometo compete with each other intead of maintaining a solid core of common characteristics. REQUIRING spanish validates this fracture. In an America where, im betting, the MAJORITY wants to define it's own culture instead of having to conform to what is percieved as an invading culture it is this hairline crack that will become a chasm divide as spanish speaking people in America no longer feel the need to learn the language used by the majority of TAX PAYING AMERICANS that provide this public education.

Again, I'm totally for teaching spanish as an ELECTIVE. I agree that having a grasp on more than one language is a good thing. Howver, using the public education to REQUIRE the acclimation of spanish onto Americans, instead of cie vera, will be a giant pill for this nation to swallow and, I'd bet, one that gets spit back out considering the widescale concern over the ramifications of ILLEGAL immigration.

 

[Shogun]

When I went to school language was required. It could be French or Spanish, but nonetheless, we still had to learn a second language. I WISH I had learned spanish instead of French since I'd have found it more useful, but nothing wrong with having to learn languages. I'd also remind you that all over the world, people learn English and are far more proficient at communicating with us than we are with them. Does that mean these countries don't retain their OWN culture. Btw, what IS our culture? I suspect you'd get a different answer depending upon where you were to travel within our country.

Ill ask you the same question I asked mainman... what school did you go to that tought you spelling and vocab in mandarin chinese in the second grade? I'm betting you were taught English. There is a reason that this was true then and why it should be true now. My public education gave us the option to take a foreign language. I took spanish and am glad I did. However, pretending that the majority of Americans, hence a common identity, are not English speaking citizens while insinuating that minority ESL people are the average American identity is silly.


ps.. i've still got that Israel/pal thread in mind, Jillie... it's been a whirlwnd of a monday... Your favorite little jew hating anti-semite is still intersted in brainstorming solutions.

 

[Shogun]

oh.. and given the one way nature of western influence over foreign nations and the assimilation into THEIR cultures your analogy falls way short.


Dont see too many hamburgers being sold at the Indian mcdonalds, eh? same cultural significance of preserving a common national identity.

 

[jillian]

Ill ask you the same question I asked mainman... what school did you go to that tought you spelling and vocab in mandarin chinese in the second grade? I'm betting you were taught English. There is a reason that this was true then and why it should be true now. My public education gave us the option to take a foreign language. I took spanish and am glad I did. However, pretending that the majority of Americans, hence a common identity, are not English speaking citizens while insinuating that minority ESL people are the average American identity is silly.


ps.. i've still got that Israel/pal thread in mind, Jillie... it's been a whirlwnd of a monday... Your favorite little jew hating anti-semite is still intersted in brainstorming solutions.

I was taught English. But I actually do know people whose children WERE taught Mandarin in elementary school. I always found it kind of silly. Nor do I believe in ESL programs. But you didn't ask me that. The question which seemed to be posited prior to your current post was whether language should be required. I think it should be. But, no, I don't think foreign language should replace English. I think proficiency is good for us, however. On the other hand, a working knowledge of Russian would probably be more helpful than Spanish in my neighborhood.

And remember Shogie, your solution has to leave a Jewish Israel with defensible borders