Solar Power: Is It Time for the Big Push?

[asterism]

11 Kw system, under $20,000.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems - Grid tie Solar Panel Systems

And the price is dropping every year.

Now double that cost since the installation, racks (50 required for the one you quoted), and provisioning isn't included. The permitting isn't included. The wiring isn't included.

That 12.25 Kw system doesn't deliver near that much power in real life. It will theoretically deliver that much power when the sun is directly overhead on a clear day. Also, that system will only produce enough power at peak performance to run one of my two main air conditioners plus the refrigerator. No oven, no cooktop, no washer, no dryer, and no water heater.

my 10K system is producing about 12K per year. I run everything off solar. heat, AC, hot water, stove, all appliances. I don't have gas or oil anything. my house is net zero rated. and at the end of the year I have surplus produced I sell back

How big is your house, how big is your air conditioner and what is your peak load?

12K per year is misleading because that's a measure of the total energy produced in a set time. Will it provide 12,000 Watts to start up the air handler and compressor on a 4 ton air conditioner while the refrigerator is running?

 

[Spoonman]

Now double that cost since the installation, racks (50 required for the one you quoted), and provisioning isn't included. The permitting isn't included. The wiring isn't included.

That 12.25 Kw system doesn't deliver near that much power in real life. It will theoretically deliver that much power when the sun is directly overhead on a clear day. Also, that system will only produce enough power at peak performance to run one of my two main air conditioners plus the refrigerator. No oven, no cooktop, no washer, no dryer, and no water heater.

my 10K system is producing about 12K per year. I run everything off solar. heat, AC, hot water, stove, all appliances. I don't have gas or oil anything. my house is net zero rated. and at the end of the year I have surplus produced I sell back

How big is your house, how big is your air conditioner and what is your peak load?

12K per year is misleading because that's a measure of the total energy produced in a set time. Will it provide 12,000 Watts to start up the air handler and compressor on a 4 ton air conditioner while the refrigerator is running?

peak load doesn't matter for a few reasons. first, you rarely ever use what is calcualted as our peak load. that assumes everything you own is running at the same time. second, when you are not using high demand you are accumulating credits or recharging batteries. when you use more than you are producing you draw from those stores. the critical number you need to concern yourself with is your total annual demand. especially if you are on the grid. if you are off you need to factor in storage capacity and potential number of sunless days.

 

[asterism]

my 10K system is producing about 12K per year. I run everything off solar. heat, AC, hot water, stove, all appliances. I don't have gas or oil anything. my house is net zero rated. and at the end of the year I have surplus produced I sell back

How big is your house, how big is your air conditioner and what is your peak load?

12K per year is misleading because that's a measure of the total energy produced in a set time. Will it provide 12,000 Watts to start up the air handler and compressor on a 4 ton air conditioner while the refrigerator is running?

peak load doesn't matter for a few reasons. first, you rarely ever use what is calcualted as our peak load. that assumes everything you own is running at the same time. second, when you are not using high demand you are accumulating credits or recharging batteries. when you use more than you are producing you draw from those stores. the critical number you need to concern yourself with is your total annual demand. especially if you are on the grid. if you are off you need to factor in storage capacity and potential number of sunless days.

Except a system has to be strong enough to start an air conditioner for it to run that air conditioner. That's why a system for my house is so expensive. When the solar contractor tested a 10K system using my generator feed it didn't work.

Peak load matters. Not calculated assuming all electronics running at one time, measured by analyzing usage for a few days.

A friend here lives completely off the grid in a 3000 sqft. house. His solar array is 1/4 acre and it cost $200K WITH all the subsidies and tax credits. His biggest issue is dirt on the panels and he has to clean them weekly for them to be effective. Sometimes during the summer he has to use his backup generator to run the air conditioning in his house because there are too many clouds to produce enough power to charge his batteries after running off them all night.

The technology is promising but it's not there just yet. He's a wealthy pediatrician so he's not doing it to save the money. He has an interest in furthering the technology as well as a grudge against our electric company. Forgoing a few additional sportscars is worth it for him, but he has advised anyone looking to save money to look elsewhere.

His $200,000 investment and $2000 per year maintenance doesn't save money compared to an average of $400 per month he would use if he was on the grid.

 

[Spoonman]

How big is your house, how big is your air conditioner and what is your peak load?

12K per year is misleading because that's a measure of the total energy produced in a set time. Will it provide 12,000 Watts to start up the air handler and compressor on a 4 ton air conditioner while the refrigerator is running?

peak load doesn't matter for a few reasons. first, you rarely ever use what is calcualted as our peak load. that assumes everything you own is running at the same time. second, when you are not using high demand you are accumulating credits or recharging batteries. when you use more than you are producing you draw from those stores. the critical number you need to concern yourself with is your total annual demand. especially if you are on the grid. if you are off you need to factor in storage capacity and potential number of sunless days.

Except a system has to be strong enough to start an air conditioner for it to run that air conditioner. That's why a system for my house is so expensive. When the solar contractor tested a 10K system using my generator feed it didn't work.

Peak load matters.

A friend here lives completely off the grid in a 3000 sqft. house. His solar array is 1/4 acre and it cost $200K WITH all the subsidies and tax credits. His biggest issue is dirt on the panels and he has to clean them weekly for them to be effective. Sometimes during the summer he has to use his backup generator to run the air conditioning in his house because there are too many clouds to produce enough power to charge his batteries after running off them all night.

The technology is promising but it's not there just yet. He's a wealthy pediatrician so he's not doing it to save the money. He has an interest in furthering the technology as well as a grudge against our electric company. Forgoing a few additional sportscars is worth it for him, but he has advised anyone looking to save money to look elsewhere.

His $200,000 investment and $2000 per year maintenance doesn't save money compared to an average of $400 per month he would use if he was on the grid.

no it doesn't. in the dead of night when there is no sun, your ac, stove, refridgerator all still work. the system is dormant at that point. but it gets its power from soemwhere right? same as in the peak of the day, if you have more demand then your system is producing it gets it from the same place. whether it is a battery system or the grid.

I've never washed my panels, rain does a good enough job. and i 've noticed degrading in production over the years. I don't know who is quoting those insane prices you keep throwing out.

What I can tell you is with a 10K system that cost $60K installed, including roof reinforcement. and a 30% federal rebate, a 10% state rebate. SREC credits of about $6000 - 6500 a year depending on rates and the excess power I sell back the system paid itself off in 3 years. and in that time, i have had no utitlity bills? not a dime. at this point, my SREC credits and energy sold back are all profit.

the technology is there, and it works just fine.

 

[asterism]

peak load doesn't matter for a few reasons. first, you rarely ever use what is calcualted as our peak load. that assumes everything you own is running at the same time. second, when you are not using high demand you are accumulating credits or recharging batteries. when you use more than you are producing you draw from those stores. the critical number you need to concern yourself with is your total annual demand. especially if you are on the grid. if you are off you need to factor in storage capacity and potential number of sunless days.

Except a system has to be strong enough to start an air conditioner for it to run that air conditioner. That's why a system for my house is so expensive. When the solar contractor tested a 10K system using my generator feed it didn't work.

Peak load matters.

A friend here lives completely off the grid in a 3000 sqft. house. His solar array is 1/4 acre and it cost $200K WITH all the subsidies and tax credits. His biggest issue is dirt on the panels and he has to clean them weekly for them to be effective. Sometimes during the summer he has to use his backup generator to run the air conditioning in his house because there are too many clouds to produce enough power to charge his batteries after running off them all night.

The technology is promising but it's not there just yet. He's a wealthy pediatrician so he's not doing it to save the money. He has an interest in furthering the technology as well as a grudge against our electric company. Forgoing a few additional sportscars is worth it for him, but he has advised anyone looking to save money to look elsewhere.

His $200,000 investment and $2000 per year maintenance doesn't save money compared to an average of $400 per month he would use if he was on the grid.

no it doesn't. in the dead of night when there is no sun, your ac, stove, refridgerator all still work. the system is dormant at that point. but it gets its power from soemwhere right? same as in the peak of the day, if you have more demand then your system is producing it gets it from the same place. whether it is a battery system or the grid.

I've never washed my panels, rain does a good enough job. and i 've noticed degrading in production over the years. I don't know who is quoting those insane prices you keep throwing out.

What I can tell you is with a 10K system that cost $60K installed, including roof reinforcement. and a 30% federal rebate, a 10% state rebate. SREC credits of about $6000 - 6500 a year depending on rates and the excess power I sell back the system paid itself off in 3 years. and in that time, i have had no utitlity bills? not a dime. at this point, my SREC credits and energy sold back are all profit.

the technology is there, and it works just fine.

Where do you live and what was your electric bill before you installed solar?

I'm asking because your story makes me want to bid this out again. Your real world example helps. My electric bill averages $400 per month and I live in Florida.

 

[Spoonman]

Except a system has to be strong enough to start an air conditioner for it to run that air conditioner. That's why a system for my house is so expensive. When the solar contractor tested a 10K system using my generator feed it didn't work.

Peak load matters.

A friend here lives completely off the grid in a 3000 sqft. house. His solar array is 1/4 acre and it cost $200K WITH all the subsidies and tax credits. His biggest issue is dirt on the panels and he has to clean them weekly for them to be effective. Sometimes during the summer he has to use his backup generator to run the air conditioning in his house because there are too many clouds to produce enough power to charge his batteries after running off them all night.

The technology is promising but it's not there just yet. He's a wealthy pediatrician so he's not doing it to save the money. He has an interest in furthering the technology as well as a grudge against our electric company. Forgoing a few additional sportscars is worth it for him, but he has advised anyone looking to save money to look elsewhere.

His $200,000 investment and $2000 per year maintenance doesn't save money compared to an average of $400 per month he would use if he was on the grid.

no it doesn't. in the dead of night when there is no sun, your ac, stove, refridgerator all still work. the system is dormant at that point. but it gets its power from soemwhere right? same as in the peak of the day, if you have more demand then your system is producing it gets it from the same place. whether it is a battery system or the grid.

I've never washed my panels, rain does a good enough job. and i 've noticed degrading in production over the years. I don't know who is quoting those insane prices you keep throwing out.

What I can tell you is with a 10K system that cost $60K installed, including roof reinforcement. and a 30% federal rebate, a 10% state rebate. SREC credits of about $6000 - 6500 a year depending on rates and the excess power I sell back the system paid itself off in 3 years. and in that time, i have had no utitlity bills? not a dime. at this point, my SREC credits and energy sold back are all profit.

the technology is there, and it works just fine.

Where do you live and what was your electric bill before you installed solar?

I'm asking because your story makes me want to bid this out again. Your real world example helps. My electric bill averages $400 per month and I live in Florida.

i have two houses, one in NY and one in NJ. the solar is on the house in NJ. I was going to put in on the house in NY as well, but NY is not a solar friendly state. NY keeps the SREC credits for one. Also my house in NY has gas heat, stove and hot water. So i would only be addressing part of my utility demand there. I was going to do it any way, but without the srecs and the the dependence on gas for half the utilities my payback would have been 9 years. I won't be in that house for 9 years. had i planned to be there long term, I probably would have. that house also did not have an ideal facing roof. but to meet the energy demand the total system cost was quoted at $28,000. had I had a better roof alignment a $21,000 system would have produced the same power.

The house in NJ I never lived in full time so a true electric bill is tough to identify. However and energy analysis that was required by the state to give me my 10% credit estimated the avg monthly use would have been around $425 based on the equipment I had. As a comparison, two neighbors who have the same house I do and very similar appliances gave me their annual expenditures. the average range was very comprable. based on that a 7.5K system was recommended. i elected to go for the 10K system even though it cost more for a few reasons. first, a 10K system is the largest residential system both the federal and state rebates will cover. So I'm getting 30% and 10% of my additional cost covered in subsidy. Now with the larger system I'm getting additional power to sell back , forever basically. But the real driver was the SRECs. I'm getting 2.5 additional SREC credits per year. at $500 - 600 per credit I'm seeing $1250 on the low end additional per year in pay back. over the 15 years the program covers, that's a minimum of $18,500. so what that means in return is my additional subsidised cost for the larger system of about $6000 will return me about $25,000 more over 15 years. the power I sell back continues on even after 1 years.

I got 4 bids on the NY system. they were all within about $8000 from high to low. On the NJ system I did 3 bids. They were within about $3000 from high to low.

a real key is roof alignment and somewhat roof angle. another key is how many hours of sunlight your system will see. if you have obstructions like trees, or buildings that will block even a few hours of sun, its going to cut back production big time.

If i were you I would bid it out again. Granted, in Florida, you have a year round AC bill which I don't. But I also have to heat for 7 months.

Again, the key is your total annual demand. you need a system that will cover that or close to cover that. if someone is trying to sell you something based on maximum load, they are way over quoting the system. think of it this way, on the grid, what ever you produce and don't use goes through your meter and in essence turns it in reverse. then when you draw, at night or peak demand you pull in. so if your system is designed to produce your design in your area, with your orientation, at the end of the year you should at least break even.

 

[Politico]

11 Kw system, under $20,000.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems - Grid tie Solar Panel Systems

And the price is dropping every year.

Now double that cost since the installation, racks (50 required for the one you quoted), and provisioning isn't included. The permitting isn't included. The wiring isn't included.

That 12.25 Kw system doesn't deliver near that much power in real life. It will theoretically deliver that much power when the sun is directly overhead on a clear day. Also, that system will only produce enough power at peak performance to run one of my two main air conditioners plus the refrigerator. No oven, no cooktop, no washer, no dryer, and no water heater.

my 10K system is producing about 12K per year. I run everything off solar. heat, AC, hot water, stove, all appliances. I don't have gas or oil anything. my house is net zero rated. and at the end of the year I have surplus produced I sell back

Don't bother spoon. People who hate solar will just keep arguing with you.

 

[Againsheila]

Now double that cost since the installation, racks (50 required for the one you quoted), and provisioning isn't included. The permitting isn't included. The wiring isn't included.

That 12.25 Kw system doesn't deliver near that much power in real life. It will theoretically deliver that much power when the sun is directly overhead on a clear day. Also, that system will only produce enough power at peak performance to run one of my two main air conditioners plus the refrigerator. No oven, no cooktop, no washer, no dryer, and no water heater.

my 10K system is producing about 12K per year. I run everything off solar. heat, AC, hot water, stove, all appliances. I don't have gas or oil anything. my house is net zero rated. and at the end of the year I have surplus produced I sell back

Don't bother spoon. People who hate solar will just keep arguing with you.

You gotta wonder why they hate it? Are they invested in the energy companies? I mean, solar, if it can be done, and you're off the grid, you are no longer dependent on those energy companies. Wonder how well it works in the Pacific Northwest where we only get sun about 5 days a year?

 

[Politico]

Works terrible there. Shame they don't have fog and rain power lol.

 

[Old Rocks]

my 10K system is producing about 12K per year. I run everything off solar. heat, AC, hot water, stove, all appliances. I don't have gas or oil anything. my house is net zero rated. and at the end of the year I have surplus produced I sell back

Don't bother spoon. People who hate solar will just keep arguing with you.

You gotta wonder why they hate it? Are they invested in the energy companies? I mean, solar, if it can be done, and you're off the grid, you are no longer dependent on those energy companies. Wonder how well it works in the Pacific Northwest where we only get sun about 5 days a year?

Well, the area west of the Cascades is actually a small part of the Pacific Northwest. In Eastern Oregon and Eastern Washington, solar would work very well as there are 250 or better sunny days per year for much of that area, some areas, 300+.