Sodom and Gomorrah

[Newby]

I don't think it's ok, I want zero abortions to happen.

Do you agree that men are free of responsibility for their actions when they're drunk?

Being 'free of responsibility' is not the question here though? You do things that you wouldn't normally do when sober, often your actions aren't even recalled the next day. I'm not sure what the point is really? There's a story in the Bible that is teaching a lesson, you are free to take what you want from that lesson, even if it's nothing. Why you feel the need to use it as a weapon against those that interpret it differently than you is what I would say is the real question here?

I mean, what's the end result here? Your point is that since God said Lot was a 'righteous' man and he was drugged and slept with his daughters, then that makes God a liar and therefore the Bible is false?? Hey, you are welcome to your opinion, go for it! Like I said, what I find fascinating is that someone feels the need to go to all the trouble to use this opinion as a weapon against others who believe differently. What happened to 'diversity' and how it was good for all of us to be 'different'?? And how about not judging others so harshly by your own standards? Seriously? [/QUOTE]

The bolded part is a beautiful job of victim talk, but whoring your daughters out and banging your daughters is sick under any and all circumstances. I'm sure you agree with me, but you have to pretend otherwise because you think saying it's immoral will make your god angry or something.

By God, you're right! I will never believe another thing I read in the Bible! Thank you so very much for rescuing me from my stupidity!!!!




Seriously dude, if you can't have an adult conversation, why bother with you?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Being 'free of responsibility' is not the question here though? You do things that you wouldn't normally do when sober, often your actions aren't even recalled the next day. I'm not sure what the point is really? There's a story in the Bible that is teaching a lesson, you are free to take what you want from that lesson, even if it's nothing. Why you feel the need to use it as a weapon against those that interpret it differently than you is what I would say is the real question here?

I mean, what's the end result here? Your point is that since God said Lot was a 'righteous' man and he was drugged and slept with his daughters, then that makes God a liar and therefore the Bible is false?? Hey, you are welcome to your opinion, go for it! Like I said, what I find fascinating is that someone feels the need to go to all the trouble to use this opinion as a weapon against others who believe differently. What happened to 'diversity' and how it was good for all of us to be 'different'?? And how about not judging others so harshly by your own standards? Seriously? [/QUOTE]

The bolded part is a beautiful job of victim talk, but whoring your daughters out and banging your daughters is sick under any and all circumstances. I'm sure you agree with me, but you have to pretend otherwise because you think saying it's immoral will make your god angry or something.

By God, you're right! I will never believe another thing I read in the Bible! Thank you so very much for rescuing me from my stupidity!!!!




Seriously dude, if you can't have an adult conversation, why bother with you?

Couldn't care less if you believe the bible or not, never said you were stupid. I'm not understanding why sounding like a victim is so important to you.

I can't have an adult convo? But the kid who only posts sarcastic lines can? Makes perfect sense.

I'm all ears, tell me why what he did is acceptable and why he's a righteous man.

 

[Newby]

By God, you're right! I will never believe another thing I read in the Bible! Thank you so very much for rescuing me from my stupidity!!!!




Seriously dude, if you can't have an adult conversation, why bother with you?

Couldn't care less if you believe the bible or not, never said you were stupid. I'm not understanding why sounding like a victim is so important to you.

I can't have an adult convo? But the kid who only posts sarcastic lines can? Makes perfect sense.

I'm all ears, tell me why what he did is acceptable and why he's a righteous man.

Why don't you tell me where in the story it says his actions were 'acceptable'? Kid, huh? I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Couldn't care less if you believe the bible or not, never said you were stupid. I'm not understanding why sounding like a victim is so important to you.

I can't have an adult convo? But the kid who only posts sarcastic lines can? Makes perfect sense.

I'm all ears, tell me why what he did is acceptable and why he's a righteous man.

Why don't you tell me where in the story it says his actions were 'acceptable'? Kid, huh? I'll take that as a compliment.

Well God viewed him as worthy of saving, and others, because they point their eyes the wrong way, as worthy of doom, why is that?

 

[Newby]

Why don't you tell me where in the story it says his actions were 'acceptable'? Kid, huh? I'll take that as a compliment.

Well God viewed him as worthy of saving, and others, because they point their eyes the wrong way, as worthy of doom, why is that?

*Sigh* That's all already been explained to you, I remember reading one post that pretty much hit the nail on the head, but you refuse to accept it. All you're interested in doing is talking about how he wanted his daughters raped and then screwed them *shocking*, and that's the only view that you're ever going to have because that's the only view you want to have. You're narrow minded and it's your choice to continue to be so, and it's a waste of time for anyone to entertain your narrow minded questions any further really. There is no willingness to learn, that tells me the goal is otherwise. You have no interest in learning anything, just belittling and bashing that which is different from you or what you apparently do not understand. Do yourself a favor and find another hobby, kid.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Well God viewed him as worthy of saving, and others, because they point their eyes the wrong way, as worthy of doom, why is that?

*Sigh* That's all already been explained to you, I remember reading one post that pretty much hit the nail on the head, but you refuse to accept it. All you're interested in doing is talking about how he wanted his daughters raped and then screwed them *shocking*, and that's the only view that you're ever going to have because that's the only view you want to have. You're narrow minded and it's your choice to continue to be so, and it's a waste of time for anyone to entertain your narrow minded questions any further really. There is no willingness to learn, that tells me the goal is otherwise. You have no interest in learning anything, just belittling and bashing that which is different from you or what you apparently do not understand. Do yourself a favor and find another hobby, kid.

Jesus's golden rule on full display again. You're not very good at pretending to take Jesus's teachings seriously.

Thanks for showing me how those things are ok though. Better to just avoid it, attack the person asking the question and move along.

 

[Newby]

*Sigh* That's all already been explained to you, I remember reading one post that pretty much hit the nail on the head, but you refuse to accept it. All you're interested in doing is talking about how he wanted his daughters raped and then screwed them *shocking*, and that's the only view that you're ever going to have because that's the only view you want to have. You're narrow minded and it's your choice to continue to be so, and it's a waste of time for anyone to entertain your narrow minded questions any further really. There is no willingness to learn, that tells me the goal is otherwise. You have no interest in learning anything, just belittling and bashing that which is different from you or what you apparently do not understand. Do yourself a favor and find another hobby, kid.

Jesus's golden rule on full display again. You're not very good at pretending to take Jesus's teachings seriously.

Thanks for showing me how those things are ok though. Better to just avoid it, attack the person asking the question and move along.

Your schtick is getting old, kid... only those I care about can lay a guilt trip on me, and that was a pathetic attempt at a guilt trip anyway. Practice that some more before you get married.

Oh, and by the way... Matthew 10:14

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.


In His own words, I think He would approve.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Jesus's golden rule on full display again. You're not very good at pretending to take Jesus's teachings seriously.

Thanks for showing me how those things are ok though. Better to just avoid it, attack the person asking the question and move along.

Your schtick is getting old, kid... only those I care about can lay a guilt trip on me, and that was a pathetic attempt at a guilt trip anyway. Practice that some more before you get married.

Oh, and by the way... Matthew 10:14

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.


In His own words, I think He would approve.

Hey as long as you're at peace with mocking Jesus's golden rule, I have no problem with that, I'm not a christian.

Once you start spreading a good message, I'll happily listen to it. Whether you're motivated by Jesus, a cloud free sky or a tasty lunch.

 

[ABikerSailor]

This coming from someone who thinks it's perfectly okay for a woman to kill her child because it happens to be an inconvenience, you know they're 'free of blame' because it's legal? Maybe you should look at your own moral compass and quite worrying about everyone elses?? And here I thought it was just christians that were so judgmental??

I don't think it's ok, I want zero abortions to happen.

Do you agree that men are free of responsibility for their actions when they're drunk?

Being 'free of responsibility' is not the question here though? You do things that you wouldn't normally do when sober, often your actions aren't even recalled the next day. I'm not sure what the point is really? There's a story in the Bible that is teaching a lesson, you are free to take what you want from that lesson, even if it's nothing. Why you feel the need to use it as a weapon against those that interpret it differently than you is what I would say is the real question here?

I mean, what's the end result here? Your point is that since God said Lot was a 'righteous' man and he was drugged and slept with his daughters, then that makes God a liar and therefore the Bible is false?? Hey, you are welcome to your opinion, go for it! Like I said, what I find fascinating is that someone feels the need to go to all the trouble to use this opinion as a weapon against others who believe differently. What happened to 'diversity' and how it was good for all of us to be 'different'?? And how about not judging others so harshly by your own standards? Seriously?

First off.......it wasn't Lot's fault. His daughters got him drunk because they knew there was no other way that he would sleep with them, and they thought (wrongly) that they and Lot were the only people left, but I can understand that, because after seeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, they'd probably be more than a bit traumatized.

As far as being responsible for your actions when drunk? Well, unfortunately, ETOH (alcohol) acts on the brain and one of the first things that happens is your inhibitions pretty much go away the drunker you get (which explains why you'd do something drunk that you wouldn't do sober). Does that excuse the person if they get intentionally drunk? No.

Does that excuse the person if someone else roofies them? Yes, they didn't know they were being roofied.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Well I guess we'll have to make this convo vulgar.


Cuz I'm not seeing how a dude can get it up if he's not turned on, drunk or not, so how can a man be raped and get a girl pregnant unless he wants to bang his daughters?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well I guess we'll have to make this convo vulgar.


Cuz I'm not seeing how a dude can get it up if he's not turned on, drunk or not, so how can a man be raped and get a girl pregnant unless he wants to bang his daughters?

Question: Have you ever gone out to a bar and taken home someone who you'd find repulsive if you weren't drunk, to wake up the next morning and come up with every and any excuse to get the hell out of there and never call back?

Yes........working as a bartender at a biker bar, I've seen it go both ways, some girls get drunk and go home with some dude they'd never normally even look at, and some dudes go home with some of the ugliest chicks, just because they got drunk.

You've never hung out in bars much, have you?

 

[Newby]

Your schtick is getting old, kid... only those I care about can lay a guilt trip on me, and that was a pathetic attempt at a guilt trip anyway. Practice that some more before you get married.

Oh, and by the way... Matthew 10:14

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.


In His own words, I think He would approve.

Hey as long as you're at peace with mocking Jesus's golden rule, I have no problem with that, I'm not a christian.

Once you start spreading a good message, I'll happily listen to it. Whether you're motivated by Jesus, a cloud free sky or a tasty lunch.

I'm not mocking anything or anyone, I believe you are the one doing the mocking. You've already heard the 'good message' and you've rejected it. Like I said, at that point, you brush the dust from your feet and move on. Besides, we're not discussing Jesus's teaching here, are we?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Well I guess we'll have to make this convo vulgar.


Cuz I'm not seeing how a dude can get it up if he's not turned on, drunk or not, so how can a man be raped and get a girl pregnant unless he wants to bang his daughters?

Question: Have you ever gone out to a bar and taken home someone who you'd find repulsive if you weren't drunk, to wake up the next morning and come up with every and any excuse to get the hell out of there and never call back?

Yes........working as a bartender at a biker bar, I've seen it go both ways, some girls get drunk and go home with some dude they'd never normally even look at, and some dudes go home with some of the ugliest chicks, just because they got drunk.

You've never hung out in bars much, have you?

Yeah I've heard of that happening.

Never heard of a dad getting drunk and waking up next to his daughter.

Mistakenly thinking someone is good looking and thinking it's sexy to bang your daughter are in 2 different hemispheres let alone ball parks.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well I guess we'll have to make this convo vulgar.


Cuz I'm not seeing how a dude can get it up if he's not turned on, drunk or not, so how can a man be raped and get a girl pregnant unless he wants to bang his daughters?

Question: Have you ever gone out to a bar and taken home someone who you'd find repulsive if you weren't drunk, to wake up the next morning and come up with every and any excuse to get the hell out of there and never call back?

Yes........working as a bartender at a biker bar, I've seen it go both ways, some girls get drunk and go home with some dude they'd never normally even look at, and some dudes go home with some of the ugliest chicks, just because they got drunk.

You've never hung out in bars much, have you?

Yeah I've heard of that happening.

Never heard of a dad getting drunk and waking up next to his daughter.

Mistakenly thinking someone is good looking and thinking it's sexy to bang your daughter are in 2 different hemispheres let alone ball parks.

Like I said, it affects the brain in ways that are truly remarkable. People can also get drunk enough that they still function, but don't remember anything of the night before (it's called a blackout).

How do I know these things? Because not only was I a bartender for 4 1/2 years, I was also a Navy Drug and Alcohol Program Advisor for 8 years.

And yes.......it can happen.

 

[Sky Dancer]

"Let he (or she) who is without sin, cast the first stone".

 

[MarcATL]

"Let he (or she) who is without sin, cast the first stone".

And a few verses after the same Speaker said

" go, and sin no more."

 

[Sky Dancer]

"Let he (or she) who is without sin, cast the first stone".

And a few verses after the same Speaker said

" go, and sin no more."

Keep your mind on your own sins, not on the sins of others. Go and sin no more is directed at YOU, not others.

 

[MarcATL]

"Let he (or she) who is without sin, cast the first stone".

And a few verses after the same Speaker said

" go, and sin no more."

Keep your mind on your own sins, not on the sins of others. Go and sin no more is directed at YOU, not others.

That much is true. Just bringing balance.

People tend to use that "cast stones" verse as a kind of free for all.

Just putting it into perspective.

 

[Sky Dancer]

And a few verses after the same Speaker said

" go, and sin no more."

Keep your mind on your own sins, not on the sins of others. Go and sin no more is directed at YOU, not others.

That much is true. Just bringing balance.

People tend to use that "cast stones" verse as a kind of free for all.

Just putting it into perspective.

The perspective it's intended in is to watch your own mind, not be looking for sins in others.

 

[koshergrl]

I notice that those who say "they don't understand this" have offered no interpretations of the passage to explain how it should be understood. Marie offered a completely different and unrelated passage of scripture, and AmericanFirst offered nothing.

Here is the OP's interpretation in a nutshell:

1) Lot offered to let a crowd gang-rape his virgin daughters rather than his guests.

2) Lot, in a drunken daze, later had incestuous sex with those same daughters, apparently on their instigation so they could get pregnant.

3) Lot was described as a "righteous" man, which, given the above, calls into question just what standard of "righteousness" is being advocated.

Now: just exactly how and why is that interpretation wrong? No platitudes, no unsupported statements, no reference to "the Holy Spirit" -- explain why and how the OP got it wrong. If you can't, you're just dodging.

Actually, Lot's daughters got him drunk and then raped him.

If you're going to ridicule the Bible, at least get it right.

And then, as now, there was a creed that said there was nothing more sacred than hospitality to strangers. In desert country, it's a matter of life or death. Lot knew that the men wouldn't rape his daughters because they were only into violent homosexual sex, it was a common occurrence for wandering bands of lunatics to sexually attack men in the streets. Lot was doing what he knew was right, trying to save strangers and trying to save his city from the wrath of God.