CDZ Socialized care melt down. NHS in crisis.

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Andylusion, May 12, 2017.

  1. frigidweirdo
    Offline

    frigidweirdo Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    22,339
    Thanks Received:
    2,274
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +7,744
    The reason why the NHS is in trouble is because the Tories refuse to put money into it. They want a system like the American system where the politicians can be on the take, insurance companies make money and would be ever grateful to the bastards who gave them the opportunity, so they need an excuse to destroy the NHS, and that opportunity is only given if they actually destroy it themselves.
     
  2. westwall
    Offline

    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Messages:
    48,835
    Thanks Received:
    10,075
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    Nevada
    Ratings:
    +30,357




    He did. You haven't.
     
  3. westwall
    Offline

    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Messages:
    48,835
    Thanks Received:
    10,075
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    Nevada
    Ratings:
    +30,357





    They've had hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars. How bankrupt must you make a country before you figure out that having them run the medical system is not a good idea? Here in the States the VA is a excellent example of why government should NEVER be allowed to run anything. Massive waste and fraud, and veterans dying long before they should because the GOVERNMENT protects itself from consequences.

    How can you be so blind to that one simple fact?
     
  4. Andylusion
    Offline

    Andylusion Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    9,601
    Thanks Received:
    1,394
    Trophy Points:
    275
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    Ratings:
    +4,607
    This is classic left-wing thinking. Completely ignore the fact that money is finite.... and just assume "They simply refused to just put more money into"... because in left-wing world, you have the mindset of a toddler demanding mommy and daddy buy them everything.

    Again, just a few years ago, the UK government posted a bond sale. This is where they issue bonds, and people buy them. This is how the UK government borrows money.

    The sale failed.

    BBC NEWS | Business | UK government bond auction fails

    "The UK Treasury has failed to sell all its government bonds in an auction for the first time since 2002."

    That is exactly what happened to Greece, only on a much larger scale.

    Basically the people around the world, said to the UK government... no we're not going to lend you anymore.

    So when you live in this mythology that the UK government has a magic pot of endless gold to dribble all over your endless demands for services... you are just flat out wrong.

    You are wrong. Period.

    The Tories are not the ones preventing you from just endlessly funding whatever you want.....MATH is.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. frigidweirdo
    Offline

    frigidweirdo Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    22,339
    Thanks Received:
    2,274
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +7,744
    Actually, no, your attack WON'T work.

    Here's why. I know what I'm talking about.

    The NHS as a percentage of GDP for the UK is LOWER than most first world countries.

    NHS spending 'to fall as share of GDP by 2020' - BBC News

    "David Cameron is likely to preside over the largest sustained fall in NHS spending as a share of GDP since 1951, an analysis by the King's Fund says."

    [​IMG]

    UK spending as a percentage of GDP has been going down since the Tories got into govt.

    Health expenditure, total (% of GDP) | Data

    UK healthcare spending here is at 6.7% of GDP.
    The US is on 13.1%, the Euro area is on 8.7%, Europe and Cental Asia is on 8.1%, the EU is on 8.3%. The UK is LOW.

    [​IMG]

    Here's it's at 8.5% in 2013, but still only two countries are lower, and one of those is for a reason that it's a very transient country with a lot of GDP being made by people who live outside of the country (it has the highest per capita car accident rate due to the low number of people who actually live there, but the high number of people who actually go there).

    Now, the people want healthcare, they want the NHS to work. The Tories are taking money away that people would actually like to be spent on the NHS.

    However the Tories want a system that would see healthcare spending go to US rates of like 13%, but lots of this money going into the pockets of rich people. So, it's not me that thinks money is infinite, I'm seeing this for what it is, that the people want health care and are willing to spend 9% of GDP to get that, which is LOWER than US levels, but would see a BETTER system in place.

    The Tories are the ones trying to make themselves richer, and nothing else, don't try and bullshit me with anything else.
     
  6. Andylusion
    Offline

    Andylusion Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    9,601
    Thanks Received:
    1,394
    Trophy Points:
    275
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    Ratings:
    +4,607
    Now this is even more hilarious.

    For hundreds of posts, across dozens of threads.... what is the number one thing that left-wingers claim is the problem with the US health care system?

    It costs too much.

    Here you are, now tell me that the UK is spending too little, and they should spend more and more, because the amount you spend is lower as a % of GDP. The exact measure, spending as a % of GDP, left-wingers point to to prove our system costs to much.

    So while left-wingers here and complaining we're spending too much as % of GDP, left-wingers over there are claiming they spend too little as a % of GDP.

    Do you people ever have a consistent view on ANYTHING?!
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. frigidweirdo
    Offline

    frigidweirdo Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    22,339
    Thanks Received:
    2,274
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +7,744
    I'm sorry you don't get it.

    Here's the deal. The UK spending what it spends right now is not enough. How do we know this? Well, the NHS is falling apart. Waiting lists are too long, there are problems, Ambulance services have doubled their average time getting to people, it's falling apart. People don't want a healthcare service that is falling apart. They want one that works.

    The US spends too much. Do you know how I know this? Well, it spends 7% just on giving to insurance companies to do nothing. It spends too much on drugs. The US spends 13% of GDP, where 8-9% would seem to be about the ideal.

    So, complaining something is too expensive, and another is too cheap, isn't contradictory. But hey, you go have a little laugh and pretend it's not consistent.
     

Share This Page