So Ohio gets union rights back; What next? Layoffs or tax hikes?

[Jarhead]

Yes..they sure are. Tax cuts, layoffs and offshoring did that.

Really?

NY is struggling.
I dont seem to recall any tax cut here in NY...can you cite an example of a tax cut here in NY where we not only pay 8.25 sales tax, an MTA tax, state income tax, city income tax, etc...

When did we receive a tax cut here in NY?

Hmmm?

And that all came about because of Bush tax cuts and big layoffs.

Cuomo is basically going to sunset the Millionaire's tax. Where do you think they are going to make up the shortfall?

The Bush tax cuts affected the taxes charged by the states?

I dont think so Sallow. My state, local, real estate, school, MTA and sales taxes were not affected one iota.

Why are you making this shit up?

 

[miami_thomas]

I have no idea what Ohio will do, but I think you are missing something in your assumptions. In the medium term, you can't pay people less and get the same quality. Paying teachers and police the same (I say the same and not more since this bill just keeps the pre-Kasich status quo) will lead to better teaching and policing than if you cut their pay. Better schools and lower crime are important factors in attracting new residents and businesses. In an extreme example, the population in Detroit has fallen precipitously even as the cost of living has dropped sharply.

And I don't think it's fair to the voters to suggest that they don't understand your argument. I'm sure that as Kasich and his allies campaigned publicly for their law they made it perfectly clear that unionization didn't lead to free money. That a strong majority of the voters of Ohio chose a different path than the one you favor indicates a difference in values more than a difference in knowledge level.

That is not true. Private teachers get paid less and they actually do a better job. Truth is the entitled mentality causes them to do less hard work not more. See the auto industry and the workers drinking during breaks. We can pay them three times as much and I will guarantee you, you will not get three times the work out of them.

 

[Inthemiddle]

So I will respond like this...

Are you done?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Not hyperbole at all. A historical fact. These are the same people that you assholes are constantly denigrating. Even Romney screws up on this totally. His recent statements are going to cost the GOP much votes.

So you dont believe in the theory that unions, despite their intentions, tend to protect the laziest of the workers at the expense of the most dedicated?

Not one bit.

Really?

Are you now or have you ever been in a union? Know anyone in one?

Ever drive by a construction site?

My Dad was in the Il state union, drove him nuts to have to deal with his co-workers in the VA. Hell, he stopped counting the number of people that drove past 1 or more offices to come to him b/c he cared enough to do his job and do it properly.

 

[miami_thomas]

Yes lets get it so that everyone is down to $5 per hour. We already have a corporate plutocracy in this country. Might as well totally eliminate the middle class.

If you lowered the rate to $5 per hour the price of products would go down and you would basically have the same buying power. The minimum wage really does nothing to buying power it just makes you feel like you have more money.

 

[Inthemiddle]

That is not true. Private teachers get paid less and they actually do a better job. Truth is the entitled mentality causes them to do less hard work not more. See the auto industry and the workers drinking during breaks. We can pay them three times as much and I will guarantee you, you will not get three times the work out of them.

Okay, sooooo....CEOs do the least amount of work?

 

[Jarhead]

I have no idea what Ohio will do, but I think you are missing something in your assumptions. In the medium term, you can't pay people less and get the same quality. Paying teachers and police the same (I say the same and not more since this bill just keeps the pre-Kasich status quo) will lead to better teaching and policing than if you cut their pay. Better schools and lower crime are important factors in attracting new residents and businesses. In an extreme example, the population in Detroit has fallen precipitously even as the cost of living has dropped sharply.

And I don't think it's fair to the voters to suggest that they don't understand your argument. I'm sure that as Kasich and his allies campaigned publicly for their law they made it perfectly clear that unionization didn't lead to free money. That a strong majority of the voters of Ohio chose a different path than the one you favor indicates a difference in values more than a difference in knowledge level.

That is not true. Private teachers get paid less and they actually do a better job. Truth is the entitled mentality causes them to do less hard work not more. See the auto industry and the workers drinking during breaks. We can pay them three times as much and I will guarantee you, you will not get three times the work out of them.

I will say it again...onluy becuase here I am..in a debate with several union supporters, but they always avoid commenting in this.....

Unions, despite their intentions, tend to protect the laziest acceptable worker at the expense fo the most dedicated worker.

A worker that does the least acceptable per the union contract gets no less of a raise than the worker that displys outstanding dedication and work ethic.

Now...is that fair to the ones that work the hardest?

 

[Mad Scientist]

Uh, America grew exponentially with Labor Unions, why do people want to blame those same Unions for the jobs losses?

I have a problem with Unions taking their members money and donating it to political causes, but you can't argue that Unions have made working conditions and pay much better for the American worker.

Why has America been losing jobs? Traitorous Congressmen and Presidents (who are owned by Banks) have signed a long list of "free trade" agreements that sent the majority of the good paying jobs over seas.

The fight is with them, not your fellow American.

 

[Jarhead]

So I will respond like this...

Are you done?

With you?

Yep.

 

[martybegan]

Not hyperbole at all. A historical fact. These are the same people that you assholes are constantly denigrating. Even Romney screws up on this totally. His recent statements are going to cost the GOP much votes.

So you dont believe in the theory that unions, despite their intentions, tend to protect the laziest of the workers at the expense of the most dedicated?

Not one bit.

Then you havent seen the inner workings of public sector unions. Why do you think the teachers union has to spend so much time defending worthless teachers? For the longest time it took 3-4 years to fire a teacher accused of misconduct, and all that time they got paid to sit in a room. Even now it takes at least a year, no matter what the charge is.

It takes months to do paperwork in city agencies that would take days in the private sector. Most of the reason is that each package has to pass through so many desks, with most of these checks not needed, but mandated to provide job titles for people not usable in other areas.

 

[miami_thomas]

So Ohio gets union rights back; What next? Layoffs or tax hikes?

Neither.

It merely means state employees have their rights back with regard to disciplinary actions and firings. It means they may avail themselves of employment due process.

Nothing more.

Something most private employees who pay for their work don't have. If private employees did have that power, they would either leave the country or go out of business. See manufacturing in the US. You see in a world where you have to sell something and make a profit you can not afford to give people those rights. However, when you can just take other peoples money forcibly you don’t have to worry about it you can just do it.

 

[Jarhead]

Not hyperbole at all. A historical fact. These are the same people that you assholes are constantly denigrating. Even Romney screws up on this totally. His recent statements are going to cost the GOP much votes.

So you dont believe in the theory that unions, despite their intentions, tend to protect the laziest of the workers at the expense of the most dedicated?

Not one bit.

Then you are either naive or wearing rosy glasses.

Tom uses all of his sick days. He is not always sick, but he knows he will lose them if he doiesnt use them.,,and his friends kjnow this about him.
He also used all of his floating holidays...even though all of his holidays were recognized nationally.
Tom also used both personal days and called in for 3 berevement days...even though his friends know that n0o one died.

Jim, his friend, did not use all of his sick days. Why? He was never really sick. He used no flaoting hpolidays as his hoilidays were recognized nationally. He had an aunt die, but he had not seen her for years, so he did not put in for a brevement day.

Tom and Jim get the same exact raise per union contract.

What do you think Jim will do next year?

 

[mudwhistle]

Dumbass left wingers just dont get the math do they. Ohio voters voted to bring back collective bargaining rights for public sector unions.

Its known that Ohio governments simply cant afford the status quo. But, the law is now the law, and unions are gonna always demand more, and refuse to sacrifice for the greater good. So........which is first:

1- Layoffs for firemen, cops, teachers. Gotta make payroll and budget. Time to trim some fat.

and/or

2- Raise taxes on companies and individuals. Which will cause business to leave Ohio for non-union states like South Carolina, which is rapidly attracting business like Google, Boeing, BMW, etc, due to non-union labor, low taxes.

So either way, Ohio loses jobs.

Good job libtards.

I'm sure they are hoping for the magic money fairy to show up and cure all of thier ills.

Of course. Just tax the rich and wait for Obama to open up his stash.

Can't we get back to talking about Cain????

 

[miami_thomas]

Why do repubs cry "the unions pay more than the private sector" while screaming "Class Warfare"!

Ironic much?

That is because class warfare is against the private sector that provides a product or service to make their money. Where as the union provides a forced service that is not optional but is rather forced on people. Therefore there is no market to keep costs under control.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Dumbass left wingers just dont get the math do they. Ohio voters voted to bring back collective bargaining rights for public sector unions.

Its known that Ohio governments simply cant afford the status quo. But, the law is now the law, and unions are gonna always demand more, and refuse to sacrifice for the greater good. So........which is first: 1- Layoffs for firemen, cops, teachers. Gotta make payroll and budget. Time to trim some fat. and/or 2- Raise taxes on companies and individuals. Which will cause business to leave Ohio for non-union states like South Carolina, which is rapidly attracting business like Google, Boeing, BMW, etc, due to non-union labor, low taxes. So either way, Ohio loses jobs. Good job libtards.

Or, 3: what will really happen. The unions will sacrifice some in theiri pensions and salaries for the greater good.

They were willing to all along.

Oh, 4: business will have to pay its fair share.

 

[miami_thomas]

Will somebody please tell me why the blue blazes fuck public unions should have collective bargaining rights with the very same politicians who decide their contracts? At a time when their compensation and benefits far outstrip what the private sector gets?

This has been found to be untrue.

I love this notion that conservatives have. That we are a rich nation because we have rich people.

And that's bullshit. We are a rich nation because we have people who are productive. And if they aren't sharing in that prosperity..there is a problem.

Every country has productive people. Matter of fact I can guarantee you there are other countries that have far more productive people than we do. We have a lot of lazy people in this country. The reason this country is rich is because of the rich people that came here to be free from an oppressive government. That is a fact.

 

[Inthemiddle]

For the longest time it took 3-4 years to fire a teacher accused of misconduct, and all that time they got paid to sit in a room. Even now it takes at least a year, no matter what the charge is.

It sounds like your state has made some very bad decisions, to agree to such terms as would allow something like this. You should complain to and punish the politicians who made this poor agreement. Not punish the majority of teachers who do quality work, who take papers home with them each evening and weekend, spend hours of their off time doing more work, sacrificing time with their own children to ensure that other people's children are getting an education.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Something most private employees who pay for their work don't have.

They should start a union. A union would help them watch out for their interests.

 

[Dragon]

Every country has productive people. Matter of fact I can guarantee you there are other countries that have far more productive people than we do. We have a lot of lazy people in this country.

Well . . .

U.S. Workers World's Most Productive - CBS News

Apparently not.

Once again, reality shows it has a liberal bias. ;

 

[miami_thomas]

All of the budget cuts and austerity measures proposed in both Ohio and Wisconsin had already been agreed to by the unions. These union-busting measures had absolutely nothing to do with the state budget, and would have done nothing to curb state spending. The OP is disingenuous.

The unions would still be a part of it. However in those states unions can strike and start to cause huge problems. Where as in right to work states they can not.