Smoking In Cars With Children

[Asclepias]

There is a host of medical data that says your opinion is powerless in the face of facts.

Actually, there isn't. All the numbers they throw out aren't based on body count, but on a theory.

When you find a cause of death on a death certificate as second hand smoke, let me know.

Mark

Typically when a person has AIDs they dont say they died of AIDS on the death certificate. They say they died of any of the many known diseases caused by AIDs. Again you are using logical fallacy and not doing a very good job of disguising it.

Once again you're a moron. If someone dies of heart disease but they smoked what will be listed as the cause of death?

Heart disease. Which is my point.

No, cause of death is smoking.

I know thats the real cause but the point is that it wont be listed on the death certificate.

Fox Business pundit: 'No good data' for deaths from secondhand smoke

"
Scientists don’t keep a count of deaths by secondhand smoke as recorded in death certificates. (Death certificates don’t list "secondhand smoke" as a cause of death.) Instead, they rely on statistical methods used by epidemiologists, who are experts in disease patterns within populations. To figure out lung cancer deaths from secondhand smoke, for instance, the individual risk of lung cancer is analyzed next to the proportion of people exposed to secondhand smoke.

"

 

[Rouge Rover]

In the case of smoking, you prefer to protect them 100%, yet you concede about not protecting them 100% in other areas.

Listen, a child in normal health can surely withstand a wisp of smoke from a cigarette. It is the zealots that always have a cause that is turning our world into a version of 1984.

Smoking ain't gonna kill a kid. Lighten up, Francis.

Mark

There is a host of medical data that says your opinion is powerless in the face of facts.

No there isn't.

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

This makes no sense.

 

[alpine]

In the case of smoking, you prefer to protect them 100%, yet you concede about not protecting them 100% in other areas.

Listen, a child in normal health can surely withstand a wisp of smoke from a cigarette. It is the zealots that always have a cause that is turning our world into a version of 1984.

Smoking ain't gonna kill a kid. Lighten up, Francis.

Mark

There is a host of medical data that says your opinion is powerless in the face of facts.

No there isn't.

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

 

[Asclepias]

There is a host of medical data that says your opinion is powerless in the face of facts.

No there isn't.

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

This makes no sense.

OK. Maybe if you could talk to a doctor he/she could explain it to you. Better yet maybe you could mosey on over to the CDC website using the link I provided.

 

[Rouge Rover]

There is a host of medical data that says your opinion is powerless in the face of facts.

No there isn't.

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

Your article didn't link to a study.

 

[Asclepias]

No there isn't.

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

Your article didn't link to a study.

Neither did your opinion.

 

[80zephyr]

Actually, there isn't. All the numbers they throw out aren't based on body count, but on a theory.

When you find a cause of death on a death certificate as second hand smoke, let me know.

Mark

Typically when a person has AIDs they dont say they died of AIDS on the death certificate. They say they died of any of the many known diseases caused by AIDs. Again you are using logical fallacy and not doing a very good job of disguising it.

Once again you're a moron. If someone dies of heart disease but they smoked what will be listed as the cause of death?

Heart disease. Which is my point.

No, cause of death is smoking.

I know thats the real cause but the point is that it wont be listed on the death certificate.

Fox Business pundit: 'No good data' for deaths from secondhand smoke

"
Scientists don’t keep a count of deaths by secondhand smoke as recorded in death certificates. (Death certificates don’t list "secondhand smoke" as a cause of death.) Instead, they rely on statistical methods used by epidemiologists, who are experts in disease patterns within populations. To figure out lung cancer deaths from secondhand smoke, for instance, the individual risk of lung cancer is analyzed next to the proportion of people exposed to secondhand smoke.

"

Yep, like I said, they can't look at a person and tell whether second hand smoke(or even smoking) killed them. The link between smoking and cancer is pretty conclusive. The link between second hand smoke and death is...bullshit.

Mark

 

[Rouge Rover]

No there isn't.

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

This makes no sense.

OK. Maybe if you could talk to a doctor he/she could explain it to you.

I don't need a doctor to explain contradiction to me. You said you agree secondhand smoke is a crock. Then you went into why it isn't. Africa awaits dumbass.

 

[alpine]

No there isn't.

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

Your article didn't link to a study.

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1107271

 

[Fueri]

Certainly it's downright stupid to smoke around your kids, even in general. Everyone knows it's bad for them. It's bad for them physically and it's likely that this increases the chances that they'll be smokers, although I don't know the stats on that really.

Here's where I get stuck. If a parent is smoking in the home there's not a ton of difference between that and smoking in the car. We can talk about air volume relative concentrations etc., sure, but how many people are rolling around with the windows up smoking. It may be the case, in fact, that the child is exposed to less smoke in the car than they are sitting in the kitchen while mom is puffing away, because the window is generally open in the car. Hard to say, I suppose. Maybe studies have been done and posted here, as I admittedly didn't read all of the posts here.

Can we then say it's also an illegal offense to smoke at home. Somehow I don't think so. We step over that line and there's no going back. That's just as stupid, IMO, but I don't think we have the right to literally poke our noses through someone's kitchen window and tell them how to live/parent, whatever.

Enforcement becomes an issue. You can say its illegal all day long but unless you are going to go all big brother then you cant enforce it. Seeing someone smoking in a car with kids is much easier to spot and penalize.

I know and actually I'd thought of that, but then my mind went to nosy neighbors and cops using that as an excuse to get into someone's house, Child Services then getting involved etc. which I guess is your 'big brother', but I don't for one second trust that big brother won't do whatever big brother is empowered to do if and when big brother decides to do so for whatever reason may come up.

and I have little, if any, doubt that the next step after cars would be houses. Same arguments would be made, same reasons would be given and that incremental step would seem logical at that point.

Slippery, slippery slope.....

The way around that is to simply give up smoking if you believe in the slippery slope theory. The bad thing about that is its really an illusion. If they want to get in your home there are a host of ways they can do it right now.

I don't think people should smoke around their kids period. I don't understand why anyone would smoke, but I know lots of people do. I also know that it's not as hard to quit for some as just saying 'no mas' right, wrong or otherwise.

I don't think either, however, that the government should be handed another excuse to poke around in people's lives.

I just see too many scenarios where this could be used wrongfully....

 

[Rouge Rover]

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

Your article didn't link to a study.

Neither did your opinion.

I don't need to link, I'm not claiming there's a study on my side. You aren't back in Africa yet?

 

[Asclepias]

Typically when a person has AIDs they dont say they died of AIDS on the death certificate. They say they died of any of the many known diseases caused by AIDs. Again you are using logical fallacy and not doing a very good job of disguising it.

Once again you're a moron. If someone dies of heart disease but they smoked what will be listed as the cause of death?

Heart disease. Which is my point.

No, cause of death is smoking.

I know thats the real cause but the point is that it wont be listed on the death certificate.

Fox Business pundit: 'No good data' for deaths from secondhand smoke

"
Scientists don’t keep a count of deaths by secondhand smoke as recorded in death certificates. (Death certificates don’t list "secondhand smoke" as a cause of death.) Instead, they rely on statistical methods used by epidemiologists, who are experts in disease patterns within populations. To figure out lung cancer deaths from secondhand smoke, for instance, the individual risk of lung cancer is analyzed next to the proportion of people exposed to secondhand smoke.

"

Yep, like I said, they can't look at a person and tell whether second hand smoke(or even smoking) killed them. The link between smoking and cancer is pretty conclusive. The link between second hand smoke and death is...bullshit.

Mark

Yes they can tell. However, like in the case of AIDs smoking causes the diseases that kill you and trained people working from science can explain the connections that seem to be complex in nature to you.

 

[alpine]

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

Your article didn't link to a study.

Neither did your opinion.

I don't need to link, I'm not claiming there's a study on my side. You aren't back in Africa yet?

Yes, you don't need a link for your brain farts, thats true...

 

[Rouge Rover]

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

Your article didn't link to a study.

Effect of Secondhand Smoke on Occupancy of Nicotinic Acetylcholine Receptors in Brain

Nothing about cars in that one either. The SIDS stuff was especially dishonest.

 

[Rouge Rover]

Once again you're a moron. If someone dies of heart disease but they smoked what will be listed as the cause of death?

Heart disease. Which is my point.

No, cause of death is smoking.

I know thats the real cause but the point is that it wont be listed on the death certificate.

Fox Business pundit: 'No good data' for deaths from secondhand smoke

"
Scientists don’t keep a count of deaths by secondhand smoke as recorded in death certificates. (Death certificates don’t list "secondhand smoke" as a cause of death.) Instead, they rely on statistical methods used by epidemiologists, who are experts in disease patterns within populations. To figure out lung cancer deaths from secondhand smoke, for instance, the individual risk of lung cancer is analyzed next to the proportion of people exposed to secondhand smoke.

"

Yep, like I said, they can't look at a person and tell whether second hand smoke(or even smoking) killed them. The link between smoking and cancer is pretty conclusive. The link between second hand smoke and death is...bullshit.

Mark

Yes they can tell. However, like in the case of AIDs smoking causes the diseases that kill you and trained people working from science can explain the connections that seem to be complex in nature to you.

Then explain.

 

[Asclepias]

You can start with the tobacco companies billion dollar lawsuit and settlement to clear up any rough spots in your education.

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

This makes no sense.

OK. Maybe if you could talk to a doctor he/she could explain it to you.

I don't need a doctor to explain contradiction to me. You said you agree secondhand smoke is a crock. Then you went into why it isn't. Africa awaits dumbass.

Its obvious you need someone to explain it to you. Yes I agree second hand smoke is crock. A crock of shit that people dont recognize the dangers of it. I know Africa awaits cave monkey. I will be buried there.

 

[alpine]

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

Your article didn't link to a study.

Effect of Secondhand Smoke on Occupancy of Nicotinic Acetylcholine Receptors in Brain

Nothing about cars in that one either. The SIDS stuff was especially dishonest.

"Participants underwent two bolus-plus-continuous-infusion 2-FA positron emission tomography scanning sessions during which they sat in the passenger's seat of a car for 1 hour and either were exposed to moderate SHS or had no SHS exposure. The study took place at an academic positron emission tomography center."


The reason you don't get it because your parents were smoking in the car... Which makes a lot of sense...

 

[Asclepias]

I never said that smoking wasn't a danger. Just that second hand smoke is a crock.

Mark

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

Your article didn't link to a study.

Neither did your opinion.

I don't need to link, I'm not claiming there's a study on my side. You aren't back in Africa yet?

Yes you need a link if you want to be taken as a serious interlocutor. No I'm not back in Africa yet. Are you back in the caves of europe yet?

 

[Asclepias]

I was talking to Rouge Rover. Yes second hand smoke is a crock but it does kill and complicate childrens lives.

How Secondhand Smoke Affects the Brain

"Secondhand smoke has a direct, measurable impact on the brain similar to what’s seen in the person doing the smoking, according to a new study. The finding highlights the importance of limiting exposure to secondhand smoke in cars and other enclosed spaces."

Your article didn't link to a study.

Effect of Secondhand Smoke on Occupancy of Nicotinic Acetylcholine Receptors in Brain

Nothing about cars in that one either. The SIDS stuff was especially dishonest.

"Participants underwent two bolus-plus-continuous-infusion 2-FA positron emission tomography scanning sessions during which they sat in the passenger's seat of a car for 1 hour and either were exposed to moderate SHS or had no SHS exposure. The study took place at an academic positron emission tomography center."


The reason you don't get it because your parents were smoking in the car... Which makes a lot of sense...

I'm betting it was the lead paint chips. Someone earlier said you build up an immunity to them

 

[Asclepias]

Heart disease. Which is my point.

No, cause of death is smoking.

I know thats the real cause but the point is that it wont be listed on the death certificate.

Fox Business pundit: 'No good data' for deaths from secondhand smoke

"
Scientists don’t keep a count of deaths by secondhand smoke as recorded in death certificates. (Death certificates don’t list "secondhand smoke" as a cause of death.) Instead, they rely on statistical methods used by epidemiologists, who are experts in disease patterns within populations. To figure out lung cancer deaths from secondhand smoke, for instance, the individual risk of lung cancer is analyzed next to the proportion of people exposed to secondhand smoke.

"

Yep, like I said, they can't look at a person and tell whether second hand smoke(or even smoking) killed them. The link between smoking and cancer is pretty conclusive. The link between second hand smoke and death is...bullshit.

Mark

Yes they can tell. However, like in the case of AIDs smoking causes the diseases that kill you and trained people working from science can explain the connections that seem to be complex in nature to you.

Then explain.

I did explain. It obviously went over your head.