Skeletons in The Closet

[TemplarKormac]

As early as 2010, the Justice Department knew that as many as 100 million Americans would see their plan's grandfather status expire by the end of this year, resulting in them losing their plans through their employers. It's funny how this was never mentioned during the 2012 election.

On October 17, the Obama Department of Health and Human Services, represented by the Obama Justice Department, submitted a brief to the federal district court in Washington, opposing Priests for Life’s summary judgment motion. On page 27 of its brief, the Justice Department makes the following remarkable assertion:

The [ACA’s] grandfathering provision’s incremental transition does not undermine the government’s interests in a significant way. [Citing, among other sources, the Federal Register.] Even under the grandfathering provision, it is projected that more group health plans will transition to the requirements under the regulations as time goes on. Defendants have estimated that a majority of group health plans will have lost their grandfather status by the end of 2013.

HHS and the Justice Department cite the same section of the Federal Register referred to by John Hinderaker, as well as an annual survey on “Employer Health Benefits” compiled by the Kaiser Family Foundation in 2012.

Obama?s ?5 Percent? Con Job | National Review Online

 

[Edgetho]

dimocraps aren't interested in a lying scumbag lying again.

Afterall, it wasn't "Malicious"

It was because they just love you so much that they had to lie to you because you're not smart enough to do what's good for you.

Before: Obama Touts Woman’s Obamacare Success Story During Rose Garden Speech – Now: Woman Finds Out There Was A Website Glitch, Doesn’t Qualify For Subsidies…

Everything he touches turns to failure.

Via Washington State Wire:

Jessica Sanford, the Federal Way woman who got a shout-out from President Obama last month with her fan letter for the Affordable Care Act, got a rather rude awakening last week. Turns out she doesn’t qualify for a tax credit after all.

At least that’s what the letter said that she got from the state. Now she says her dream of affordable health insurance has gone poof. She can’t afford it. She’ll have to go without. “I’m really terribly embarrassed,” she says. “It has completely turned around on me. I mean, completely.”

Chalk it up to a bollixed-up state website that apparently still has major problems. Originally it said Sanford and her child would get a whopping tax credit that would reduce their total premium to $169 a month. Now the state is telling her it goofed – twice – and she has to pay full ticket. There may even be a third goof involved: At least one health-insurance broker says she may qualify for a tax credit after all, albeit a small one. Officials at the state Healthplanfinder website could not be contacted Sunday night. But it just goes to show that even in the state of Washington, which has earned national kudos for a health-insurance exchange that seems to function better than the dysfunctional federal website, there are big, big problems.

“They have to own up to what is going on,” Sanford says. “They have to fix it. They can’t just go around and say this is working great. In my opinion they ought to shut it down and just get all of it straightened out.”

Sanford’s tale may not be all that unusual amid the national furor over Obamacare’s sputtering start. But it is particularly embarrassing because the president himself mentioned it in a speech, calling it a success story that makes the case for the program. These days fan letters are few and far between.

Obama related Sanford’s story in remarks from the Rose Garden last Oct. 21: “I recently received a letter from a woman named Jessica Sanford in Washington state, and here’s what she wrote. ‘I am a single mom, no child support, self-employed, and I haven’t had health insurance for 15 years because it is too expensive. My son has ADHD and requires regular doctor visits, and his meds alone cost $250 a month. I have had an ongoing tendinitis problem due to my line of work that I have to have treated. Now, finally, we get to have coverage because of the ACA for $169 a month. I was crying the other day when I signed up. So much stress lifted.’

The president went on: “Now, that is not untypical for a lot of folks like Jessica who have been struggling without health insurance. That is what the Affordable Care Act is all about.”

Yes, Sanford says, it was all true at the time she wrote the letter. She was ecstatic when she discovered she could sign up for a health plan that covered all her needs at a reasonable price. As a freelance court reporter, Sanford, 48, doesn’t make a lot – a little less than $50,000 a year. That doesn’t go very far when there is a child in the household and his father doesn’t pay child support. Her 14-year-old son Ryan requires a special prescription medication that must be compounded. Before the Affordable Care Act came along, she was getting rate quotes of $500 and $600 a month. She just couldn’t afford health insurance, and her health care costs left her strapped.

That’s why she was one of the eager customers who was ready to sign up the moment the state website opened for business on Oct. 1. Washington is one of 14 states that went its own way, building its own site rather than relying on what turned out to be an error-plagued federal system. Although a computer glitch shut down the Washington Healthplanfinder website the first day, by Oct. 3, with the help of a broker, Sanford managed to enroll in a “gold”-level health plan offered by Premera Blue Cross.

The savings were tremendous. Thanks to the tax credit, Sanford qualified for a discount of $452 a month. “I was looking at it, and you know, it was like it was amazing. How was I supposed to know?”

Sanford was so happy that she wrote a thank-you note to President Obama and dropped it in the mail. One of the president’s speechwriters contacted her and asked if he could use her story. When the president used her name she says it was one of the proudest moments of her life. “To think I would finally be covered if anything happened – I was so relieved.”

Then came the bad news.

Four days after President Obama made his address, the state health exchange publicly revealed a grevious error – its tax-credit calculations were all wrong. The state had been submitting monthly income information to the federal data hub, but the federal computers were expecting an annual figure. Suppose a person claimed an income of $50,000 a year — the tax credit was based on an income of $4,166 a year. The higher the income, the bigger the error. Brokers say they caught the mistake right off the bat and tried flagging it to the state’s attention, but for some reason it took the state three weeks to acknowledge it. So everyone who purchased a subsidized health insurance policy through the Washington state exchange prior to Oct. 23 was quoted too low a rate. The mistake involved 4,600 policies covering 8,000 people – Sanford’s policy was one of them.

- See more at: Weasel Zippers | Scouring the bowels of the internet | Weasel Zippers

 

[ScienceRocks]

Goddamn this is a sickening mess.

There's just no two way about it.

 

[Edgetho]

Goddamn this is a sickening mess.

There's just no two way about it.

For three years.... Three fucking years.....

The White House Press Corps sat in that White House News Room listening to Jay Carney and the Stuttering Clusterfuck LIE about this shit and NOT ONE TIME did they bring it up.

Not once.

Not a single fucking time.

Not until it was FAR too late, not until MILLIONS of people got their Insurance Cancelled, not until the Website crashed and burned did they even take passing notice.

And let me tell you something -- The first few days they down-played it but after it became it so obvious they couldn't ignore it, they started reporting on it.

You can blame obama and dimocrap scum as much as you want, but Republicans and FNC have been screaming about this for over three years and the DISGUSTING FILTH in the LSM never gave it a passing thought.

You can't have a Free Country without a Free Press, and ladies and gentlemen....

We do not have a Free Press. Instead, what we have are White House Stenographers who simply print what the White House tells them.

Got JournoList?

JournoList | NewsBusters

You thought that once it was exposed, it would stop?

Yer delusional. dimocraps never stop lying and deceiving. Never. Not ever.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Goddamn this is a sickening mess.

There's just no two way about it.

See, now that wasn't so bad, now was it?

 

[Edgetho]

dimocraps ie. It's what they do.

ALL of them...

WOW!… NY Senator Admits “We All Knew” Prez Was Misleading About ObamaCare

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KAvH3XuTiWk]NY Senator admits to knowing Preisdent was lying about Obamacare - YouTube[/ame]

New York Senator Kirstin Gillibrand admits to knowing President was lying about Obamacare–

Gillibrand admitted to Martha Raddatz today on This Week, “We all knew,” Obama was not being honest when he told Americans they could keep their insurance.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's funny to hear conservatives complaining about some woman whose subsidy, apparently, isn't going to be as much as she thought it would be,

given that the conservative 'plan' such as it is, wouldn't give her any subsidy at all.

 

[Edgetho]

Hey, you people think I'm kidding about the DISGUSTING FILTH in the LSM and the White House Press Corps in particular?

Remember the Oct 1 rollout of the Website and obamacare? Remember that it was a clusterfuck from the word 'Go'?

Anybody?

Now, think back to the Oct 8 presser held by the lying-scumbag-in-chief.....

THINK about it. Can't remember? I don't blame you too much.

Know how many questions were asked to the lying scumbag-in-chief about why obamacare was such an abortion?

Try "Zero"

As in None, Nada, Zilch, Nyet, Nein........ Nothing.

Unbelievable: Obama gets no questions at presser on ObamaCare rollout or shutdown theater « Hot Air

Instead, there were questions like this from the adoring LSM...

Mr. President, why are you so awesome and why do you smell so good?

Mr. President, would it be possible for you to sign a picture for my daughter, so she can bring it to her school for show-and-tell?

Mr. President, are your feet as pretty as your hands? … You have beautiful hands, something I don’t think people fully appreciate.

Mr. President, now that the ObamaCare exchanges are up and running PERFECTLY, are you impressed that over 100 million Americans have signed up and are LOVING this super efficient and well-run program?

Mr. President, why do you think Republicans hate children, seniors, blacks, Latinos, the middle-class and the poor?

Mr. President, THANK YOU for taking my question — I don’t have one, but I just wanted to THANK YOU for speaking to me.

That's why I call them "the DISGUSTING FILTH in the LSM"

None of this would have happened had they been doing their jobs.

 

[BillyV]

As early as 2010, the Justice Department knew that as many as 100 million Americans would see their plan's grandfather status expire by the end of this year, resulting in them losing their plans through their employers. It's funny how this was never mentioned during the 2012 election.

How does the loss of "grandfathered status" result in 100 million Americans losing their employer plans? As I understand it, once the plan is no longer "grandfathered" it must meet further requirements, but it seems a stretch to say that will cause most (or even many) US employers from cancelling their health plans. Was your point only that employer plans may change?

 

[Edgetho]

It's funny to hear conservatives complaining about some woman whose subsidy, apparently, isn't going to be as much as she thought it would be,

given that the conservative 'plan' such as it is, wouldn't give her any subsidy at all.

And that is her exact subsidy from the Feds.... None at all. Zero. Zilch.

Rude Awakening for Federal Way Woman Who Got Shout-Out From President ? Can?t Afford Obamacare Policy After All | Washington State Wire - News of Capitol Importance

Now she says her health-insurance dream has gone bust. Without a tax credit she has to consider the cheapest “bronze” level plans, but the deductibles are so high that couldn’t afford to purchase prescription medication. “I was like, forget that – I’m not going to pay.”

So now she is looking forward to no health insurance at all. Under the terms of the Affordable Care Act, she will have to pay a penalty of $95.

The difference? We're not lying scumbags. You are

 

[Edgetho]

As early as 2010, the Justice Department knew that as many as 100 million Americans would see their plan's grandfather status expire by the end of this year, resulting in them losing their plans through their employers. It's funny how this was never mentioned during the 2012 election.

How does the loss of "grandfathered status" result in 100 million Americans losing their employer plans? As I understand it, once the plan is no longer "grandfathered" it must meet further requirements, but it seems a stretch to say that will cause most (or even many) US employers from cancelling their health plans. Was your point only that employer plans may change?

Partly.

The other point is that obama and dimocraps are lying scumbags who said those plans would be 'grandfathered' in.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's funny to hear conservatives complaining about some woman whose subsidy, apparently, isn't going to be as much as she thought it would be,

given that the conservative 'plan' such as it is, wouldn't give her any subsidy at all.

And that is her exact subsidy from the Feds.... None at all. Zero. Zilch.

Rude Awakening for Federal Way Woman Who Got Shout-Out From President ? Can?t Afford Obamacare Policy After All | Washington State Wire - News of Capitol Importance

Now she says her health-insurance dream has gone bust. Without a tax credit she has to consider the cheapest “bronze” level plans, but the deductibles are so high that couldn’t afford to purchase prescription medication. “I was like, forget that – I’m not going to pay.”

So now she is looking forward to no health insurance at all. Under the terms of the Affordable Care Act, she will have to pay a penalty of $95.

The difference? We're not lying scumbags. You are

Try calming down and using your inside voice once in awhile, child.

You want her to be back to her original situation, which was what?

 

[Edgetho]

It's funny to hear conservatives complaining about some woman whose subsidy, apparently, isn't going to be as much as she thought it would be,

given that the conservative 'plan' such as it is, wouldn't give her any subsidy at all.

And that is her exact subsidy from the Feds.... None at all. Zero. Zilch.

Rude Awakening for Federal Way Woman Who Got Shout-Out From President ? Can?t Afford Obamacare Policy After All | Washington State Wire - News of Capitol Importance

Now she says her health-insurance dream has gone bust. Without a tax credit she has to consider the cheapest “bronze” level plans, but the deductibles are so high that couldn’t afford to purchase prescription medication. “I was like, forget that – I’m not going to pay.”

So now she is looking forward to no health insurance at all. Under the terms of the Affordable Care Act, she will have to pay a penalty of $95.

The difference? We're not lying scumbags. You are

Try calming down and using your inside voice once in awhile, child.

You want her to be back to her original situation, which was what?

Stupid bitch.... She IS back to her original position ...

Except that now she has to pay a fine!!

You people really are stupid. Don't you have an "A" Team you can bring in?

You know.... Professional Liars instead of the amateurs like you I have to deal with?

 

[NYcarbineer]

And that is her exact subsidy from the Feds.... None at all. Zero. Zilch.

Rude Awakening for Federal Way Woman Who Got Shout-Out From President ? Can?t Afford Obamacare Policy After All | Washington State Wire - News of Capitol Importance



The difference? We're not lying scumbags. You are

Try calming down and using your inside voice once in awhile, child.

You want her to be back to her original situation, which was what?

Stupid bitch.... She IS back to her original position ...

Except that now she has to pay a fine!!

You people really are stupid. Don't you have an "A" Team you can bring in?

You know.... Professional Liars instead of the amateurs like you I have to deal with?

How much subsidy should she get from the federal government, if you could decide?

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's funny to hear conservatives complaining about some woman whose subsidy, apparently, isn't going to be as much as she thought it would be,

given that the conservative 'plan' such as it is, wouldn't give her any subsidy at all.

And that is her exact subsidy from the Feds.... None at all. Zero. Zilch.

Rude Awakening for Federal Way Woman Who Got Shout-Out From President ? Can?t Afford Obamacare Policy After All | Washington State Wire - News of Capitol Importance

Now she says her health-insurance dream has gone bust. Without a tax credit she has to consider the cheapest “bronze” level plans, but the deductibles are so high that couldn’t afford to purchase prescription medication. “I was like, forget that – I’m not going to pay.”

So now she is looking forward to no health insurance at all. Under the terms of the Affordable Care Act, she will have to pay a penalty of $95.

The difference? We're not lying scumbags. You are

The bronze plan would cost her 280 a month. She admits below she's currently already paying 250 a month, out of pocket, just for her son's meds. Even with co-pays, how much does she save just on that expense if she buys an ACA plan?

Does she, or do you, really believe that she doesn't come out money ahead with a bronze plan, even if she is not getting a subsidy?

 

[TemplarKormac]

As early as 2010, the Justice Department knew that as many as 100 million Americans would see their plan's grandfather status expire by the end of this year, resulting in them losing their plans through their employers. It's funny how this was never mentioned during the 2012 election.

How does the loss of "grandfathered status" result in 100 million Americans losing their employer plans? As I understand it, once the plan is no longer "grandfathered" it must meet further requirements, but it seems a stretch to say that will cause most (or even many) US employers from cancelling their health plans. Was your point only that employer plans may change?

Would it behoove you to know that 156 million Americans rely on group insurance through their employers?

 

[BillyV]

As early as 2010, the Justice Department knew that as many as 100 million Americans would see their plan's grandfather status expire by the end of this year, resulting in them losing their plans through their employers. It's funny how this was never mentioned during the 2012 election.

How does the loss of "grandfathered status" result in 100 million Americans losing their employer plans? As I understand it, once the plan is no longer "grandfathered" it must meet further requirements, but it seems a stretch to say that will cause most (or even many) US employers from cancelling their health plans. Was your point only that employer plans may change?

Would it behoove you to know that 156 million Americans rely on group insurance through their employers?

Your comment was that the expiration of the grandfather status would result in "them losing their plans through their employers"; I don't believe that is correct. However, I'm willing to be educated if you have some evidence that 100 million Americans are going to lose their insurance at the end of December. If not, I would suggest that making inflammatory statements about a law that has already been so completely vilified is counterproductive, and will simply lead those on the fence to believe the other side.

 

[TemplarKormac]

How does the loss of "grandfathered status" result in 100 million Americans losing their employer plans? As I understand it, once the plan is no longer "grandfathered" it must meet further requirements, but it seems a stretch to say that will cause most (or even many) US employers from cancelling their health plans. Was your point only that employer plans may change?

Would it behoove you to know that 156 million Americans rely on group insurance through their employers?

Your comment was that the expiration of the grandfather status would result in "them losing their plans through their employers"; I don't believe that is correct. However, I'm willing to be educated if you have some evidence that 100 million Americans are going to lose their insurance at the end of December. If not, I would suggest that making inflammatory statements about a law that has already been so completely vilified is counterproductive, and will simply lead those on the fence to believe the other side.

Then you're on your own. I don't coddle people. It's enough that people don't look for facts instead of spewing rhetoric and unsubstantiated counterpoints.

“The Departments’ mid-range estimate is that 66 percent of small employer plans and 45 percent of large employer plans will relinquish their grandfather status by the end of 2013,” wrote the administration on page 34,552 of the Register. All in all, more than half of employer-sponsored plans will lose their “grandfather status” and become illegal. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 156 million Americans—more than half the population—was covered by employer-sponsored insurance in 2013.

Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare - Forbes

 

[TemplarKormac]

Table 1, Page 1:

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...ffordableCareActHealthInsuranceCoverage_2.pdf

 

[BillyV]

Table 1, Page 1:

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...ffordableCareActHealthInsuranceCoverage_2.pdf

This page indicates that there are 156 million people on employer-based plans in 2013; it then goes on to show a steady increase to 169 million in 2023. What are you seeing that I'm missing?

I'm not a fan of Ocare, but I don't believe that 100 million people would stand for the loss of their employer health plan without a fight. Yes, the plans will change as they lose grandfathered status; some on the edge will go away, others will become somewhat more expensive. But there will not be 100 million people suddenly thrust upon the individual insurance marketplace.