Since Trump is self destructing and Hillary is poison, still how can one consciously vote liberalism

[turzovka]

Because liberalism by and large implies and deploys secular liberalism in this nation.

Secularism implies there is no room for God in political discourse or in public education. And any moral issue that hints at a religious value is considered bad for society by secular liberalism. So children are taught being gay is great, being bi-sexual is great, turning into a transgender is perfectly acceptable, premarital sex is totally expected with some precautions, and oral sex will be covered as well.

That is secularism taking over morality and the indoctrination of an abhorrent universal moral understanding. Don’t want to ever mention God, fine, don’t ever discuss matters that are not reading writing or arithmetic. When schools usurp the authority of parents and promote immoral practices it is wrong. When they whoosh kids off for secret abortions, that is an even more unspeakable crime.

Liberalism promotes illegal immigration and open borders, risks conservatives do not want to take with potential terrorists and also other trafficking. We want legal immigration only. We will fund them if we can afford it and the elected congress says it’s Ok.

Liberalism turns a blind eye to the unvetted Middle Eastern migrants coming in here by untold thousands. How insane is that? We already have tens of thousands of Arab men on student visas who we can no longer locate in this nation. Want a link?

Liberalism leads the parade against cops making them out to be this terrible racist menace. Do they care what fallout that brings? Heck no, because it assures the black vote. Are they coming down hard against the thugs in the Black Lives Matter demonstrations? Of course not. More racial divide.

Liberalism does nothing to stop Obama’s defunding of the military, reduction of troops, and demoralizing the entire military. Nor does it take the threats of terrorism or hostile nations near as seriously as conservatism does. Very misguided. National security is job one!

Liberalism is against increased offshore drilling, Alaskan drilling, fracking, keystone pipeline, nuclear plants, and are anti-coal. All these measures to please the gods of extrement environmentalism. This is so wrong. These are national security issues first and foremost. Dependence on Arab oil or other subversive nations should be done away with as soon as possible. Our economy would benefit enormously as well – again, liberals do not care.

Liberals are soft on crime and light on sentences. It is not conservative judges giving rapists, and violent criminals mitigated sentences and paroles. Worst of all, liberalism is far less likely to address the worst of crimes in this nation, urban gang violence. What conservative would be against a huge cop presence and very stiff sentences for these young offenders? You need to eradicate gang violence by attacking it vehemently. That is the only hope of stopping its perpetual presence. I think it is reprehensible children are afraid to walk to school, bus to school, or go outside in Chicago and other gang infested U.S. cities. Unforgivable! What has Obama ever said or done about that?? Not giving congress much credit here either, as it is.

Liberalism is insanely hung up on pushing transgenderism on this nation and its institutions. They are promoting a bizarre perversion that ruins lives. They push everything gay to the point of punishing anything that stands in its ways.

Liberalism has demanded legalized abortion and gay marriage. Both of these evolutions are an enormous affront to God. They are immoral and sinful, especially abortion, and with the government and our schools celebrating it all it influences children and society that this is all good. The worst of govt’s faults.

Liberalism is an enemy of Israel and an apologist for Islam. This is so cowardly and so wrong. Islam is the scourge and Israel is the perpetual victim and the world’s punching bag and scapegoat for their own sins.

Liberalism has taken the word God out of school out of our nation's history. No one can say the word, carry a Bible to school, mention the word Christmas or sing about it. Our Christian history and tradition is now treated like a pox on this nation. And all it takes is for one creep to sue.

Our universities are immersed in liberalism and its social engineering. Their course and the elitist snobbish liberal professors sicken me. They do anything but encourage dialogue and counter arguments. I have no interest in tax dollars funding that kind of enemy.

Our tax dollars also have to fund liberal public radio and their agenda. Screw that. You are fooling no one.

Liberalism allows a lying criminal like Hillary to get away with murder. Only because they have a corrupt mainstream media ready to do their bidding and support their every cover up and lie. This is a sickness that is killing America or has killed America.

Liberalism is weak on Islamic terrorism, of course no better example than our “coward in chief.” That bastard would not even march in Paris after Charli Hedbo with all the other heads of state of Europe and Israel and Palestine. No, he hid under his desk. And you guys give him another free pass. I don’t!

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

Secularism implies there is no room for God in political discourse or in public education. And any moral issue that hints at a religious value is considered bad for society by secular liberalism. So children are taught being gay is great, being bi-sexual is great, turning into a transgender is perfectly acceptable, premarital sex is totally expected with some precautions, and oral sex will be covered as well.

That is secularism taking over morality and the indoctrination of an abhorrent universal moral understanding. Don’t want to ever mention God, fine, don’t ever discuss matters that are not reading writing or arithmetic. When schools usurp the authority of parents and promote immoral practices it is wrong. When they whoosh kids off for secret abortions, that is an even more unspeakable crime.

Liberalism promotes illegal immigration and open borders, risks conservatives do not want to take with potential terrorists and also other trafficking. We want legal immigration only. We will fund them if we can afford it and the elected congress says it’s Ok.

Liberalism turns a blind eye to the unvetted Middle Eastern migrants coming in here by untold thousands. How insane is that? We already have tens of thousands of Arab men on student visas who we can no longer locate in this nation. Want a link?

Liberalism leads the parade against cops making them out to be this terrible racist menace. Do they care what fallout that brings? Heck no, because it assures the black vote. Are they coming down hard against the thugs in the Black Lives Matter demonstrations? Of course not. More racial divide.

Liberalism does nothing to stop Obama’s defunding of the military, reduction of troops, and demoralizing the entire military. Nor does it take the threats of terrorism or hostile nations near as seriously as conservatism does. Very misguided. National security is job one!

Liberalism is against increased offshore drilling, Alaskan drilling, fracking, keystone pipeline, nuclear plants, and are anti-coal. All these measures to please the gods of extrement environmentalism. This is so wrong. These are national security issues first and foremost. Dependence on Arab oil or other subversive nations should be done away with as soon as possible. Our economy would benefit enormously as well – again, liberals do not care.

Liberals are soft on crime and light on sentences. It is not conservative judges giving rapists, and violent criminals mitigated sentences and paroles. Worst of all, liberalism is far less likely to address the worst of crimes in this nation, urban gang violence. What conservative would be against a huge cop presence and very stiff sentences for these young offenders? You need to eradicate gang violence by attacking it vehemently. That is the only hope of stopping its perpetual presence. I think it is reprehensible children are afraid to walk to school, bus to school, or go outside in Chicago and other gang infested U.S. cities. Unforgivable! What has Obama ever said or done about that?? Not giving congress much credit here either, as it is.

Liberalism is insanely hung up on pushing transgenderism on this nation and its institutions. They are promoting a bizarre perversion that ruins lives. They push everything gay to the point of punishing anything that stands in its ways.

Liberalism has demanded legalized abortion and gay marriage. Both of these evolutions are an enormous affront to God. They are immoral and sinful, especially abortion, and with the government and our schools celebrating it all it influences children and society that this is all good. The worst of govt’s faults.

Liberalism is an enemy of Israel and an apologist for Islam. This is so cowardly and so wrong. Islam is the scourge and Israel is the perpetual victim and the world’s punching bag and scapegoat for their own sins.

Liberalism has taken the word God out of school out of our nation's history. No one can say the word, carry a Bible to school, mention the word Christmas or sing about it. Our Christian history and tradition is now treated like a pox on this nation. And all it takes is for one creep to sue.

Our universities are immersed in liberalism and its social engineering. Their course and the elitist snobbish liberal professors sicken me. They do anything but encourage dialogue and counter arguments. I have no interest in tax dollars funding that kind of enemy.

Our tax dollars also have to fund liberal public radio and their agenda. Screw that. You are fooling no one.

Liberalism allows a lying criminal like Hillary to get away with murder. Only because they have a corrupt mainstream media ready to do their bidding and support their every cover up and lie. This is a sickness that is killing America or has killed America.

Liberalism is weak on Islamic terrorism, of course no better example than our “coward in chief.” That bastard would not even march in Paris after Charli Hedbo with all the other heads of state of Europe and Israel and Palestine. No, he hid under his desk. And you guys give him another free pass. I don’t!

The United States Constitution is secularist in its purposeful construction! To reject the purpose of the Constitution's secular nature is to reject its foundational principles of equality and freedom!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Because liberalism by and large implies and deploys secular liberalism in this nation.

Secularism implies there is no room for God in political discourse or in public education. And any moral issue that hints at a religious value is considered bad for society by secular liberalism. So children are taught being gay is great, being bi-sexual is great, turning into a transgender is perfectly acceptable, premarital sex is totally expected with some precautions, and oral sex will be covered as well.

That is secularism taking over morality and the indoctrination of an abhorrent universal moral understanding. Don’t want to ever mention God, fine, don’t ever discuss matters that are not reading writing or arithmetic. When schools usurp the authority of parents and promote immoral practices it is wrong. When they whoosh kids off for secret abortions, that is an even more unspeakable crime.

Liberalism promotes illegal immigration and open borders, risks conservatives do not want to take with potential terrorists and also other trafficking. We want legal immigration only. We will fund them if we can afford it and the elected congress says it’s Ok.

Liberalism turns a blind eye to the unvetted Middle Eastern migrants coming in here by untold thousands. How insane is that? We already have tens of thousands of Arab men on student visas who we can no longer locate in this nation. Want a link?

Liberalism leads the parade against cops making them out to be this terrible racist menace. Do they care what fallout that brings? Heck no, because it assures the black vote. Are they coming down hard against the thugs in the Black Lives Matter demonstrations? Of course not. More racial divide.

Liberalism does nothing to stop Obama’s defunding of the military, reduction of troops, and demoralizing the entire military. Nor does it take the threats of terrorism or hostile nations near as seriously as conservatism does. Very misguided. National security is job one!

Liberalism is against increased offshore drilling, Alaskan drilling, fracking, keystone pipeline, nuclear plants, and are anti-coal. All these measures to please the gods of extrement environmentalism. This is so wrong. These are national security issues first and foremost. Dependence on Arab oil or other subversive nations should be done away with as soon as possible. Our economy would benefit enormously as well – again, liberals do not care.

Liberals are soft on crime and light on sentences. It is not conservative judges giving rapists, and violent criminals mitigated sentences and paroles. Worst of all, liberalism is far less likely to address the worst of crimes in this nation, urban gang violence. What conservative would be against a huge cop presence and very stiff sentences for these young offenders? You need to eradicate gang violence by attacking it vehemently. That is the only hope of stopping its perpetual presence. I think it is reprehensible children are afraid to walk to school, bus to school, or go outside in Chicago and other gang infested U.S. cities. Unforgivable! What has Obama ever said or done about that?? Not giving congress much credit here either, as it is.

Liberalism is insanely hung up on pushing transgenderism on this nation and its institutions. They are promoting a bizarre perversion that ruins lives. They push everything gay to the point of punishing anything that stands in its ways.

Liberalism has demanded legalized abortion and gay marriage. Both of these evolutions are an enormous affront to God. They are immoral and sinful, especially abortion, and with the government and our schools celebrating it all it influences children and society that this is all good. The worst of govt’s faults.

Liberalism is an enemy of Israel and an apologist for Islam. This is so cowardly and so wrong. Islam is the scourge and Israel is the perpetual victim and the world’s punching bag and scapegoat for their own sins.

Liberalism has taken the word God out of school out of our nation's history. No one can say the word, carry a Bible to school, mention the word Christmas or sing about it. Our Christian history and tradition is now treated like a pox on this nation. And all it takes is for one creep to sue.

Our universities are immersed in liberalism and its social engineering. Their course and the elitist snobbish liberal professors sicken me. They do anything but encourage dialogue and counter arguments. I have no interest in tax dollars funding that kind of enemy.

Our tax dollars also have to fund liberal public radio and their agenda. Screw that. You are fooling no one.

Liberalism allows a lying criminal like Hillary to get away with murder. Only because they have a corrupt mainstream media ready to do their bidding and support their every cover up and lie. This is a sickness that is killing America or has killed America.

Liberalism is weak on Islamic terrorism, of course no better example than our “coward in chief.” That bastard would not even march in Paris after Charli Hedbo with all the other heads of state of Europe and Israel and Palestine. No, he hid under his desk. And you guys give him another free pass. I don’t!

Seeing how you think makes being a liberal even easier.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Secular liberalism along with religious value protection are part of the Constitution.

 

[Boss]

The United States Constitution is secularist in its purposeful construction! To reject the purpose of the Constitution's secular nature is to reject its foundational principles of equality and freedom!

I disagree. There is nothing "secular" in our Constitution. As a matter of fact, the very foundation on which the Constitution rests is non-secular. All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator specific rights. The part that seems to cause you confusion is the 1st Amendment, where government is prohibited from establishing a religion. This doesn't render the Constitution secular in nature it is merely an amended restriction on the power of government.

The very concept of equality and freedom (inalienable rights) is impossible without belief in a power greater than man in which we derive such rights. Secularism would very much make inalienable rights alienable by man. We cannot be "endowed by our Creator" if there is no Creator.

What the First Amendment establishes is that government cannot dictate who/what that "Creator" is for you, the individual. Nor can it compel you to worship one, believe in one or acknowledge one. Again, that doesn't make it secular.

 

[Compost]

 

[turzovka]

The United States Constitution is secularist in its purposeful construction! To reject the purpose of the Constitution's secular nature is to reject its foundational principles of equality and freedom!

Cool, if that is how you want to view secularism.

Then start sorting out the 'liberalism" part of this troublesome matter.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Because liberalism by and large implies and deploys secular liberalism in this nation.

Secularism implies there is no room for God in political discourse or in public education. And any moral issue that hints at a religious value is considered bad for society by secular liberalism. So children are taught being gay is great, being bi-sexual is great, turning into a transgender is perfectly acceptable, premarital sex is totally expected with some precautions, and oral sex will be covered as well.

That is secularism taking over morality and the indoctrination of an abhorrent universal moral understanding. Don’t want to ever mention God, fine, don’t ever discuss matters that are not reading writing or arithmetic. When schools usurp the authority of parents and promote immoral practices it is wrong. When they whoosh kids off for secret abortions, that is an even more unspeakable crime.

Liberalism promotes illegal immigration and open borders, risks conservatives do not want to take with potential terrorists and also other trafficking. We want legal immigration only. We will fund them if we can afford it and the elected congress says it’s Ok.

Liberalism turns a blind eye to the unvetted Middle Eastern migrants coming in here by untold thousands. How insane is that? We already have tens of thousands of Arab men on student visas who we can no longer locate in this nation. Want a link?

Liberalism leads the parade against cops making them out to be this terrible racist menace. Do they care what fallout that brings? Heck no, because it assures the black vote. Are they coming down hard against the thugs in the Black Lives Matter demonstrations? Of course not. More racial divide.

Liberalism does nothing to stop Obama’s defunding of the military, reduction of troops, and demoralizing the entire military. Nor does it take the threats of terrorism or hostile nations near as seriously as conservatism does. Very misguided. National security is job one!

Liberalism is against increased offshore drilling, Alaskan drilling, fracking, keystone pipeline, nuclear plants, and are anti-coal. All these measures to please the gods of extrement environmentalism. This is so wrong. These are national security issues first and foremost. Dependence on Arab oil or other subversive nations should be done away with as soon as possible. Our economy would benefit enormously as well – again, liberals do not care.

Liberals are soft on crime and light on sentences. It is not conservative judges giving rapists, and violent criminals mitigated sentences and paroles. Worst of all, liberalism is far less likely to address the worst of crimes in this nation, urban gang violence. What conservative would be against a huge cop presence and very stiff sentences for these young offenders? You need to eradicate gang violence by attacking it vehemently. That is the only hope of stopping its perpetual presence. I think it is reprehensible children are afraid to walk to school, bus to school, or go outside in Chicago and other gang infested U.S. cities. Unforgivable! What has Obama ever said or done about that?? Not giving congress much credit here either, as it is.

Liberalism is insanely hung up on pushing transgenderism on this nation and its institutions. They are promoting a bizarre perversion that ruins lives. They push everything gay to the point of punishing anything that stands in its ways.

Liberalism has demanded legalized abortion and gay marriage. Both of these evolutions are an enormous affront to God. They are immoral and sinful, especially abortion, and with the government and our schools celebrating it all it influences children and society that this is all good. The worst of govt’s faults.

Liberalism is an enemy of Israel and an apologist for Islam. This is so cowardly and so wrong. Islam is the scourge and Israel is the perpetual victim and the world’s punching bag and scapegoat for their own sins.

Liberalism has taken the word God out of school out of our nation's history. No one can say the word, carry a Bible to school, mention the word Christmas or sing about it. Our Christian history and tradition is now treated like a pox on this nation. And all it takes is for one creep to sue.

Our universities are immersed in liberalism and its social engineering. Their course and the elitist snobbish liberal professors sicken me. They do anything but encourage dialogue and counter arguments. I have no interest in tax dollars funding that kind of enemy.

Our tax dollars also have to fund liberal public radio and their agenda. Screw that. You are fooling no one.

Liberalism allows a lying criminal like Hillary to get away with murder. Only because they have a corrupt mainstream media ready to do their bidding and support their every cover up and lie. This is a sickness that is killing America or has killed America.

Liberalism is weak on Islamic terrorism, of course no better example than our “coward in chief.” That bastard would not even march in Paris after Charli Hedbo with all the other heads of state of Europe and Israel and Palestine. No, he hid under his desk. And you guys give him another free pass. I don’t!

Social Conservatives want:

To make America a Christian version of Iran where religious doctrine will be the law of the land that tell those that are gay, minority, and female that they are below the average White Christian Male.

As you write about how Liberals are weak on immigration the reality is those like you voted for Social Conservatives like George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan and they were also weak on immigration and failed to do what you wish to be done, and yet you expect the opposition party to do the job your own elected officials have failed to do, so enjoy that fact hypocrite!

Also did your ancestors ask the Native Tribes of this nation if it were alright for them to migrate to this part of the world?

of course not and those like you will scuff at the notion your own ancestors were immigrants themselves that came here without the permission of the Natives that roamed this land for thousands of years before the White Christian Bastards that came and stole their land and genocide them.

You write about Liberals being weak on Terrorism and yet policies from Reagan days by supporting radical elements in Afghanistan to running from Lebanon after the Beirut bombing to the Iran\Contra Scandal that has George H.W. Bush all over it created so much of the problems from Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Iran and Iraq!

A True Fiscal Conservative would call for more restriction on Military Spending and not the wasteful spending that the Military Complex does and you condone. A True Fiscal Conservative would demand to know where every penny is spent and would focus more on border security and less on the civil tribal wars in countries like Syria and Iraq, so let admit you're not fiscal Conservative at all.

As for your religious rights, well they stop at your church and home and have no part in my Government!

I don not care what religion you hail from no matter if it is Christian, Jewish, Muslim or some tree hugging queer the reality you have no right to enforce your religious doctrine onto my life!

Separation of Church and State and yet many of you social Conservative whores believe your religious right should be forcing those like me to obey your distorted view of Christianity!

Were the Founding Fathers Christian?

Yes, but they also knew many people would flock here over the generations and created a system to protect the innocent people from individuals like you that twist the Constitution to fit your religious view.

So as you complain about how Liberals are the fault of your misery the reality is you are no better than those you bitch about and in reality your just another religious hypocrite of a whore that want your religion to dictate how everyone lives and I don't want a Christian version of Iran and if you do then move to Africa where most of those like you live!

 

[JakeStarkey]

The United States Constitution is secularist in its purposeful construction! To reject the purpose of the Constitution's secular nature is to reject its foundational principles of equality and freedom!

I disagree. There is nothing "secular" in our Constitution. As a matter of fact, the very foundation on which the Constitution rests is non-secular. All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator specific rights. The part that seems to cause you confusion is the 1st Amendment, where government is prohibited from establishing a religion. This doesn't render the Constitution secular in nature it is merely an amended restriction on the power of government.

The very concept of equality and freedom (inalienable rights) is impossible without belief in a power greater than man in which we derive such rights. Secularism would very much make inalienable rights alienable by man. We cannot be "endowed by our Creator" if there is no Creator.

What the First Amendment establishes is that government cannot dictate who/what that "Creator" is for you, the individual. Nor can it compel you to worship one, believe in one or acknowledge one. Again, that doesn't make it secular.

You are wrong as usual on this point. The Constitution is secular. A nation church was forbidden. Test oaths were forbidden. Religious belief and expression as well as non-religious belief and expression are protected. The government may not promote religion in the public square or with public monies.

 

[Boss]

You are wrong as usual on this point. The Constitution is secular. A nation church was forbidden. Test oaths were forbidden. Religious belief and expression as well as non-religious belief and expression are protected. The government may not promote religion in the public square or with public monies.

I don't see where you disproved my argument, you simply said I am wrong and presented a counter opinion. Then you reeled off a list of prohibitions you haven't backed up. "Forbidden" is a mighty strong word for power of a limited government serving at the consent of the governed.

Here's the thing... The Constitution and our government is not secular in it's foundation... this is precisely why it has to clarify (without saying it) the proverbial "wall of separation" between church and state. It simply means we can never be a theocracy. It's impossible. That does not mean our Constitution is secular. It certainly is not... cannot be... it's the foundation and premise. All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator. We are to "secure the blessings of liberty" ...and 'blessings' are non-secular, by definition.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

The United States Constitution is secularist in its purposeful construction! To reject the purpose of the Constitution's secular nature is to reject its foundational principles of equality and freedom!

I disagree. There is nothing "secular" in our Constitution. As a matter of fact, the very foundation on which the Constitution rests is non-secular. All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator specific rights. The part that seems to cause you confusion is the 1st Amendment, where government is prohibited from establishing a religion. This doesn't render the Constitution secular in nature it is merely an amended restriction on the power of government.

The very concept of equality and freedom (inalienable rights) is impossible without belief in a power greater than man in which we derive such rights. Secularism would very much make inalienable rights alienable by man. We cannot be "endowed by our Creator" if there is no Creator.

What the First Amendment establishes is that government cannot dictate who/what that "Creator" is for you, the individual. Nor can it compel you to worship one, believe in one or acknowledge one. Again, that doesn't make it secular.

The FOUNDATION of the Constitution does, indeed, rest upon non-secular notions of a religious nature. However, the Constitution itself does NOT ECHO that religious dogma by design of the Framers.

You are conflating the PRECEPTS of the DOI with Constitutional PRINCIPLES! The DOI is not the Law of the Land. The distinctly implied division of church and state noted in Amendment I, which came into being several years AFTER the ratification of the Constitution certainly should make the intent of the Framers clear. Your assumption is in error.

You appear to be confusing or comingling the MORALITY implicit throughout our Constitution with RELIGIOSITY which was purposefully omitted. Religion in and of itself, generally concerns moral behavior along with religious dogma. Morality concerns the principles of right and wrong, good and evil. When I read the US Constitution I see no religious dogma in any of the seven Articles or the 27 Amendments. I stand by my proposition that the Constitution is secular by its very construction!

 

[turzovka]

Because liberalism by and large implies and deploys secular liberalism in this nation.

Secularism implies there is no room for God in political discourse or in public education. And any moral issue that hints at a religious value is considered bad for society by secular liberalism. So children are taught being gay is great, being bi-sexual is great, turning into a transgender is perfectly acceptable, premarital sex is totally expected with some precautions, and oral sex will be covered as well.

That is secularism taking over morality and the indoctrination of an abhorrent universal moral understanding. Don’t want to ever mention God, fine, don’t ever discuss matters that are not reading writing or arithmetic. When schools usurp the authority of parents and promote immoral practices it is wrong. When they whoosh kids off for secret abortions, that is an even more unspeakable crime.

Liberalism promotes illegal immigration and open borders, risks conservatives do not want to take with potential terrorists and also other trafficking. We want legal immigration only. We will fund them if we can afford it and the elected congress says it’s Ok.

Liberalism turns a blind eye to the unvetted Middle Eastern migrants coming in here by untold thousands. How insane is that? We already have tens of thousands of Arab men on student visas who we can no longer locate in this nation. Want a link?

Liberalism leads the parade against cops making them out to be this terrible racist menace. Do they care what fallout that brings? Heck no, because it assures the black vote. Are they coming down hard against the thugs in the Black Lives Matter demonstrations? Of course not. More racial divide.

Liberalism does nothing to stop Obama’s defunding of the military, reduction of troops, and demoralizing the entire military. Nor does it take the threats of terrorism or hostile nations near as seriously as conservatism does. Very misguided. National security is job one!

Liberalism is against increased offshore drilling, Alaskan drilling, fracking, keystone pipeline, nuclear plants, and are anti-coal. All these measures to please the gods of extrement environmentalism. This is so wrong. These are national security issues first and foremost. Dependence on Arab oil or other subversive nations should be done away with as soon as possible. Our economy would benefit enormously as well – again, liberals do not care.

Liberals are soft on crime and light on sentences. It is not conservative judges giving rapists, and violent criminals mitigated sentences and paroles. Worst of all, liberalism is far less likely to address the worst of crimes in this nation, urban gang violence. What conservative would be against a huge cop presence and very stiff sentences for these young offenders? You need to eradicate gang violence by attacking it vehemently. That is the only hope of stopping its perpetual presence. I think it is reprehensible children are afraid to walk to school, bus to school, or go outside in Chicago and other gang infested U.S. cities. Unforgivable! What has Obama ever said or done about that?? Not giving congress much credit here either, as it is.

Liberalism is insanely hung up on pushing transgenderism on this nation and its institutions. They are promoting a bizarre perversion that ruins lives. They push everything gay to the point of punishing anything that stands in its ways.

Liberalism has demanded legalized abortion and gay marriage. Both of these evolutions are an enormous affront to God. They are immoral and sinful, especially abortion, and with the government and our schools celebrating it all it influences children and society that this is all good. The worst of govt’s faults.

Liberalism is an enemy of Israel and an apologist for Islam. This is so cowardly and so wrong. Islam is the scourge and Israel is the perpetual victim and the world’s punching bag and scapegoat for their own sins.

Liberalism has taken the word God out of school out of our nation's history. No one can say the word, carry a Bible to school, mention the word Christmas or sing about it. Our Christian history and tradition is now treated like a pox on this nation. And all it takes is for one creep to sue.

Our universities are immersed in liberalism and its social engineering. Their course and the elitist snobbish liberal professors sicken me. They do anything but encourage dialogue and counter arguments. I have no interest in tax dollars funding that kind of enemy.

Our tax dollars also have to fund liberal public radio and their agenda. Screw that. You are fooling no one.

Liberalism allows a lying criminal like Hillary to get away with murder. Only because they have a corrupt mainstream media ready to do their bidding and support their every cover up and lie. This is a sickness that is killing America or has killed America.

Liberalism is weak on Islamic terrorism, of course no better example than our “coward in chief.” That bastard would not even march in Paris after Charli Hedbo with all the other heads of state of Europe and Israel and Palestine. No, he hid under his desk. And you guys give him another free pass. I don’t!

Social Conservatives want:

To make America a Christian version of Iran where religious doctrine will be the law of the land that tell those that are gay, minority, and female that they are below the average White Christian Male.

As you write about how Liberals are weak on immigration the reality is those like you voted for Social Conservatives like George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan and they were also weak on immigration and failed to do what you wish to be done, and yet you expect the opposition party to do the job your own elected officials have failed to do, so enjoy that fact hypocrite!

Also did your ancestors ask the Native Tribes of this nation if it were alright for them to migrate to this part of the world?

of course not and those like you will scuff at the notion your own ancestors were immigrants themselves that came here without the permission of the Natives that roamed this land for thousands of years before the White Christian Bastards that came and stole their land and genocide them.

You write about Liberals being weak on Terrorism and yet policies from Reagan days by supporting radical elements in Afghanistan to running from Lebanon after the Beirut bombing to the Iran\Contra Scandal that has George H.W. Bush all over it created so much of the problems from Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Iran and Iraq!

A True Fiscal Conservative would call for more restriction on Military Spending and not the wasteful spending that the Military Complex does and you condone. A True Fiscal Conservative would demand to know where every penny is spent and would focus more on border security and less on the civil tribal wars in countries like Syria and Iraq, so let admit you're not fiscal Conservative at all.

As for your religious rights, well they stop at your church and home and have no part in my Government!

I don not care what religion you hail from no matter if it is Christian, Jewish, Muslim or some tree hugging queer the reality you have no right to enforce your religious doctrine onto my life!

Separation of Church and State and yet many of you social Conservative whores believe your religious right should be forcing those like me to obey your distorted view of Christianity!

Were the Founding Fathers Christian?

Yes, but they also knew many people would flock here over the generations and created a system to protect the innocent people from individuals like you that twist the Constitution to fit your religious view.

So as you complain about how Liberals are the fault of your misery the reality is you are no better than those you bitch about and in reality your just another religious hypocrite of a whore that want your religion to dictate how everyone lives and I don't want a Christian version of Iran and if you do then move to Africa where most of those like you live!

Thanks for taking the time. Your comments in bold.

To make America a Christian version of Iran where religious doctrine will be the law of the land that tell those that are gay, minority, and female that they are below the average White Christian Male.

This is total hyperbole, demagoguery and an outright fabrication. All Christians in America want is for the current political process to go forward and some of your activist judges to stay the hell out of the way. Such as --- enforcing gay marriage when the first 30 states to vote on it in referendums all said no. Enforcing partial birth abortion when congress voted against that procedure and the president Clinton signed it into law.


As you write about how Liberals are weak on immigration the reality is those like you voted for Social Conservatives like George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan and they were also weak on immigration and failed to do what you wish to be done, and yet you expect the opposition party to do the job your own elected officials have failed to do, so enjoy that fact hypocrite!

I am well aware of the history, but times have drastically changed. So let us talk about the present. I would be willing to bet that conservatives would vote overwhelmingly to stop illegal immigration totally or as much as possible. I would bet liberals would follow their feckless leaders and pretend it’s not a real issue.


Also did your ancestors ask the Native Tribes of this nation if it were alright for them to migrate to this part of the world? …of course not and those like you will scuff at the notion your own ancestors were immigrants themselves that came here without the permission of the Natives that roamed this land for thousands of years before the White Christian Bastards that came and stole their land and genocide them.

This is very stupid. Make a cogent argument. Quit going back to very different times to try to justify illegal immigration now. Do you think those Native American tribes honored the wishes of other tribes they were not fond of?


You write about Liberals being weak on Terrorism and yet policies from Reagan days by supporting radical elements in Afghanistan to running from Lebanon after the Beirut bombing to the Iran\Contra Scandal that has George H.W. Bush all over it created so much of the problems from Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Iran and Iraq!

Liberals are weak on terrorism. Correct. I stand by that. The issue is now. Where do liberals stand where do most conservatives stand? Conservatives want ISIS wiped out and no Arabs coming our way. Because security FIRST! Compassion later. Obama and company are feckless and dismissive and full of tripe when they dare talk. If you have to go back in history again to try to defend the weakness in liberalism today, then I am fine during those times when Reagan did whatever he needed to to stop the menace of communism, including selling Iran weapons to fund rebels in Central America. I am fine with Reagan supporting Afghans to get the evil Russians out of their country. I am fine with American soldiers in the M.E. to try and stop despots in Lebanon and elsewhere. I was NEVER find with Bush going into Iraq, very short sighted. But to suggest Reagan or Bush or Clinton or even Obama are the reasons all these terrorist Islamic organizations came to be is absolutely a joke. They always were and always will be. They never needed an excuse to practice their militant Islamic ways. They just pretend Israel or the USA is why they are the way they are. A total ruse.


A True Fiscal Conservative would call for more restriction on Military Spending and not the wasteful spending that the Military Complex does and you condone. A True Fiscal Conservative would demand to know where every penny is spent and would focus more on border security and less on the civil tribal wars in countries like Syria and Iraq, so let admit you're not fiscal Conservative at all.

Do not confuse government waste and military waste with the need for a strong military. Even I did not accuse the liberals of not caring about waste. That is a total separate matter. A strong military and one willing to engage in rightful causes is where Obama and company run and hide. Conservatives are more willing to fight for a good cause than whatever it is liberals ever seem to want. Too bad the second Iraq invasion changed all that and public perception.


As for your religious rights, well they stop at your church and home and have no part in my Government! …I don not care what religion you hail from no matter if it is Christian, Jewish, Muslim or some tree hugging queer the reality you have no right to enforce your religious doctrine onto my life!

That is stupid argument #3 or #4. You and yours keep using total fabrications and hyperbole to try and advance a phony argument. If I want to vote for a senator or representative because he is godly and upholds moral religious values on abortion or gay marriage, etc., so what? I have to disclose to you why I am voting for him? Do you have to explain your reasons for who you vote for? We Christians are fine with the political process, one man one vote, etc. You have a problem with that? If congress votes in a law against abortion or gay marriage you have a problem with that? Why? Because Christians like the idea, too?


Were the Founding Fathers Christian?

Who cares? We like the constitution. We also liked states’ rights that have been abrogated by overreaching administrations and hyper active courts.


Yes, but they also knew many people would flock here over the generations and created a system to protect the innocent people from individuals like you that twist the Constitution to fit your religious view.

Bunk. Your own lawyers and reps have admitted they twisted the constitution to argue for legalized abortion. And so much else. You guys are equally or more guilty of B.S. maneuvers as far as I am concerned.


So as you complain about how Liberals are the fault of your misery the reality is you are no better than those you bitch about and in reality your just another religious hypocrite of a whore that want your religion to dictate how everyone lives and I don't want a Christian version of Iran and if you do then move to Africa where most of those like you live!

Well, I think I still am on the side of morality and the common good. You are so freaked out that conservatives are also largely Christians that you use that bogus argument that we are using religion to usurp government process. Total crap. So maybe just look at what liberalism pushes legally and illegally and look at what conservatism pushes legally and less illegally than you guys and your media accomplices. The latter is far more honorable and good for this nation than the former.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are wrong as usual on this point. The Constitution is secular. A nation church was forbidden. Test oaths were forbidden. Religious belief and expression as well as non-religious belief and expression are protected. The government may not promote religion in the public square or with public monies.

I don't see where you disproved my argument, you simply said I am wrong and presented a counter opinion. Then you reeled off a list of prohibitions you haven't backed up. "Forbidden" is a mighty strong word for power of a limited government serving at the consent of the governed.

Here's the thing... The Constitution and our government is not secular in it's foundation... this is precisely why it has to clarify (without saying it) the proverbial "wall of separation" between church and state. It simply means we can never be a theocracy. It's impossible. That does not mean our Constitution is secular. It certainly is not... cannot be... it's the foundation and premise. All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator. We are to "secure the blessings of liberty" ...and 'blessings' are non-secular, by definition.

I don't care what you think of the argument, boss, or for that matter, turzovka or thought crimes.

I am merely correcting the socon regressive nonsense.

The Constitution was created by many Christians and several very important Deists. They all, with the exception of Patrick Henry and John Jay, opposed religion in government, whether it be a government church or test oaths or whatever. They left that with the states, who inevitably tossed that nonsense aside.

The Founders understood fully that making religions completely independent of and from government would inspire them to serve the people, and for the most part, such has been the result.

Government cannot promote religion, it can't take sides. It can no more promote praying in schools than it can promote a church of liberalism in schools.

The millennials overwhelmingly think like I do, and they consider your thinking regressive and not forward looking.

 

[Boss]

The United States Constitution is secularist in its purposeful construction! To reject the purpose of the Constitution's secular nature is to reject its foundational principles of equality and freedom!

I disagree. There is nothing "secular" in our Constitution. As a matter of fact, the very foundation on which the Constitution rests is non-secular. All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator specific rights. The part that seems to cause you confusion is the 1st Amendment, where government is prohibited from establishing a religion. This doesn't render the Constitution secular in nature it is merely an amended restriction on the power of government.

The very concept of equality and freedom (inalienable rights) is impossible without belief in a power greater than man in which we derive such rights. Secularism would very much make inalienable rights alienable by man. We cannot be "endowed by our Creator" if there is no Creator.

What the First Amendment establishes is that government cannot dictate who/what that "Creator" is for you, the individual. Nor can it compel you to worship one, believe in one or acknowledge one. Again, that doesn't make it secular.

The FOUNDATION of the Constitution does, indeed, rest upon non-secular notions of a religious nature. However, the Constitution itself does NOT ECHO that religious dogma by design of the Framers.

It's not supposed to echo a religious dogma, that would be a theocracy. Obviously, they didn't intend to establish a theocracy. That does not mean, secular by default.

You are conflating the PRECEPTS of the DOI with Constitutional PRINCIPLES! The DOI is not the Law of the Land. The distinctly implied division of church and state noted in Amendment I, which came into being several years AFTER the ratification of the Constitution certainly should make the intent of the Framers clear. Your assumption is in error.

I'm not conflating anything, the Constitution would not exist if not for the Declaration of Independence. And you need to refresh on your history, the Bill of Rights was essential in getting the Constitution ratified. There is an implicit division of church and state in the 1st but it is intended to restrict the power of government over church not the influence of church over government.

You appear to be confusing or comingling the MORALITY implicit throughout our Constitution with RELIGIOSITY which was purposefully omitted. Religion in and of itself, generally concerns moral behavior along with religious dogma. Morality concerns the principles of right and wrong, good and evil. When I read the US Constitution I see no religious dogma in any of the seven Articles or the 27 Amendments. I stand by my proposition that the Constitution is secular by its very construction!

Again, it is NOT secular if it's foundation and principles are non-secular. I am not "co-mingling" or confusing anything here, you are... I have not mentioned religiosity or morality, just secular and non-secular. The concept of a Creator who endows man with equality and inalienable rights is not Secular. It's more than a humanist view of right and wrong.

 

[Moonglow]

The United States Constitution is secularist in its purposeful construction! To reject the purpose of the Constitution's secular nature is to reject its foundational principles of equality and freedom!

I disagree. There is nothing "secular" in our Constitution. As a matter of fact, the very foundation on which the Constitution rests is non-secular. All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator specific rights. The part that seems to cause you confusion is the 1st Amendment, where government is prohibited from establishing a religion. This doesn't render the Constitution secular in nature it is merely an amended restriction on the power of government.

The very concept of equality and freedom (inalienable rights) is impossible without belief in a power greater than man in which we derive such rights. Secularism would very much make inalienable rights alienable by man. We cannot be "endowed by our Creator" if there is no Creator.

What the First Amendment establishes is that government cannot dictate who/what that "Creator" is for you, the individual. Nor can it compel you to worship one, believe in one or acknowledge one. Again, that doesn't make it secular.

How many state churches were built by the founders?

 

[Boss]

The Founders understood fully that making religions completely independent of and from government would inspire them to serve the people, and for the most part, such has been the result.

They most certainly thought no such thing. But don't take my word for it.... let's hear from George Washington at his first inaugural address:

It would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration, to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either: No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States.

Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. And in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their United Government, the tranquil deliberations, and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted, cannot be compared with the means by which most Governments have been established, without some return of pious gratitude along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join me I trust in thinking, that there are none under the influence of which, the proceedings of a new and free Government can more auspiciously commence.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No sure if you're catching Georgie's drift there but he is saying that God is pretty frickin' Great.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The United States Constitution is secularist in its purposeful construction! To reject the purpose of the Constitution's secular nature is to reject its foundational principles of equality and freedom!

I disagree. There is nothing "secular" in our Constitution. As a matter of fact, the very foundation on which the Constitution rests is non-secular. All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator specific rights. The part that seems to cause you confusion is the 1st Amendment, where government is prohibited from establishing a religion. This doesn't render the Constitution secular in nature it is merely an amended restriction on the power of government.

The very concept of equality and freedom (inalienable rights) is impossible without belief in a power greater than man in which we derive such rights. Secularism would very much make inalienable rights alienable by man. We cannot be "endowed by our Creator" if there is no Creator.

What the First Amendment establishes is that government cannot dictate who/what that "Creator" is for you, the individual. Nor can it compel you to worship one, believe in one or acknowledge one. Again, that doesn't make it secular.

How many state churches were built by the founders?

Monroe and Jefferson killed Henry's attempt impose a christian state church in Virginia during the 1780s.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jake: The Founders understood fully that making religions completely independent of and from government would inspire them to serve the people, and for the most part, such has been the result.

Boss: They most certainly thought no such thing . . .

For instance, George Washington, used the words of deism to argue for religious values cast in Enlightement terms to inspire government, but certainly not organized religion.

boss, you will not allowed to cherry pick sentiments taken out of context.

 

[bendog]

The United States Constitution is secularist in its purposeful construction! To reject the purpose of the Constitution's secular nature is to reject its foundational principles of equality and freedom!

I disagree. There is nothing "secular" in our Constitution. As a matter of fact, the very foundation on which the Constitution rests is non-secular. All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator specific rights. The part that seems to cause you confusion is the 1st Amendment, where government is prohibited from establishing a religion. This doesn't render the Constitution secular in nature it is merely an amended restriction on the power of government.

The very concept of equality and freedom (inalienable rights) is impossible without belief in a power greater than man in which we derive such rights. Secularism would very much make inalienable rights alienable by man. We cannot be "endowed by our Creator" if there is no Creator.

What the First Amendment establishes is that government cannot dictate who/what that "Creator" is for you, the individual. Nor can it compel you to worship one, believe in one or acknowledge one. Again, that doesn't make it secular.

I agree in part, but this notion is in disagreement to the OP. Secularism doesn't mean you or I or any of the Founders set aside our beliefs as to the Creator or natural laws or morals derived from the Creator. But we have to accept that our views are no more or less valid than anyone else's.

There are always fault lines. Abortion for example. How far can we go in compelling another not go in losing a fetus or zygot.

 

[Boss]

For instance, George Washington, used the words of deism to argue for religious values cast in Enlightement terms to inspire government, but certainly not organized religion.

Washington was an Episcopalian not a Deist. We certainly have every right and the inalienable freedom to choose our governing based on our religious thoughts and convictions. You're not going to suddenly "enlighten" that out of us and sell us some bullshit about founding secular intent.