Silver: "Delusional People In Politics"

[Dr.Traveler]

No thanks. Too many freeloaders sucking the system dry.

We've choked off the freeloaders for the most part coming off the State's dime. There's no tax revenue for that.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

If you are a union member you are infacto a communist member. Thats not a extreme that just the truth.

No, if you're a union member, you're a union member. That's just the truth. The rest is embellishments you're making up to try to sell your point.

 

[thanatos144]

If you are a union member you are infacto a communist member. Thats not a extreme that just the truth.

No, if you're a union member, you're a union member. That's just the truth. The rest is embellishments you're making up to try to sell your point.

I see you are a union member which happens to be a communist organization but that means you are not a communist?????? You eat paint chips when you were young?

 

[Foxfyre]

Many USMB members view me as a sanctimonious right wingnut, ideologue, partisan to the inth degree, etc. etc. etc. And none of that is actually true and I did find the opening posts for this thread to be interesting. Nate Silver is one of the pundits that I regularly read along with several other commentators who are usually left of center, though I respect Silver's scholarship a bit less than some of the others because of the huge leaps he sometimes makes that simply cannot be supported with the facts.

But the fact is, to reelect Obama with the state the economy was/is in was so blindly partisan that some of us despair that we will ever regain common sense and a rational perspective in this country. I simply refuse to believe that 52% of Americans WANT a 14+ trillion dollar debt, high unemployment, ever increasing dependency on government handouts, diminishing opportunity for our young people to succeed in reaching for their dreams, and eroding credit and prestige around the world.

And if anybody thinks the Republicans are any less self serving, dishonest, and manipulative than are the Democrats in Congress, he or she simply has not been paying attention.

What would it take to set aside party affiliation and partisan loyalities and take each issue, one at a time, and decide how to deal with it? That isn't going to happen as long as each side is intent on insulting, demonizing, accusing, and blaming the other and refusing to acknowledge things as they are.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I see you are a union member which happens to be a communist organization but that means you are not a communist?????? You eat paint chips when you were young?

You need to work on your literacy and get checked for lead poisoning son, I am not a union member. I support their right to exist and function just the same as I support the right of a business owner to exist and function.

 

[Toro]

So we all should be communist cause a few assholes? Sorry not buying it. If you dont like your job quit.

See, this is why no one is taking you seriously. You just jumped from one extreme to the next and made assumptions (and an ass of yourself) by assuming I was of an extremist point of view.

I am definitely not in favor of requiring Union membership for employment. I definitely am in favor of allowing Unions to exist and collectively negotiate. I'd much rather have a world with Unions for workers that feel they're being treated unfairly than a world without it.

And for the record, a few assholes can kill or injure a hell of a lot of people. This is why we regulate stuff in the first place in the markets. It's why the FDA, EPA, and other organizations exist. It's definitely why Unions exist.

If you are a union member you are infacto a communist member. Thats not a extreme that just the truth.

lol

Outstanding.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

But the fact is, to reelect Obama with the state the economy was/is in was so blindly partisan that some of us despair that we will ever regain common sense and a rational perspective in this country.

I can get this point. I was surprised all election season that the polling data was showing Obama carrying states like Wisconsin. I think the OP"s point, is that it takes real intelligence to see an uncomfortable truth and accept it as the truth. It's the height of lunacy to see an uncomfortable truth and deny it.

It was fairly clear that despite the state of the economy, the deficit, the debt, and the unemployment rate that Obama was going to win. I don't for the life of me know how that works but that happened.

Ok, that's a small lie. I do know how he won. It's the same way Bush won in 2004 and Clinton in 1996. The opposing party just decided to screw up a shot because they were scared of the incumbent. I'm just surprised the GOP actively blew the election.

 

[thanatos144]

I see you are a union member which happens to be a communist organization but that means you are not a communist?????? You eat paint chips when you were young?

You need to work on your literacy and get checked for lead poisoning son, I am not a union member. I support their right to exist and function just the same as I support the right of a business owner to exist and function.

You are a dumbass. apparently you need reading comprehension classes.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I see you are a union member which happens to be a communist organization but that means you are not a communist?????? You eat paint chips when you were young?

You need to work on your literacy and get checked for lead poisoning son, I am not a union member. I support their right to exist and function just the same as I support the right of a business owner to exist and function.

You are a dumbass. apparently you need reading comprehension classes.

Name calling. The last refuge of the intellectually doomed. You were wrong and have nothing left. You are dismissed.

 

[Foxfyre]

But the fact is, to reelect Obama with the state the economy was/is in was so blindly partisan that some of us despair that we will ever regain common sense and a rational perspective in this country.

I can get this point. I was surprised all election season that the polling data was showing Obama carrying states like Wisconsin. I think the OP"s point, is that it takes real intelligence to see an uncomfortable truth and accept it as the truth. It's the height of lunacy to see an uncomfortable truth and deny it.

It was fairly clear that despite the state of the economy, the deficit, the debt, and the unemployment rate that Obama was going to win. I don't for the life of me know how that works but that happened.

Ok, that's a small lie. I do know how he won. It's the same way Bush won in 2004 and Clinton in 1996. The opposing party just decided to screw up a shot because they were scared of the incumbent. I'm just surprised the GOP actively blew the election.

I don't think the GOP blew it actually. I just think that with the help of the media, the Democrats were successful in demonizing Romney enough to lessen the enthusiasm for him. And when you have 50% or more of the people receiving some kind of government handout or benefit, it is too easy to protect that, however small, at the expense of doing what we intectually know is the right thing. Romney was honest that some of that had to go if we were to rein in runaway spending, get more people working, and move toward a balanced budget again. And that scared those who thought they might have to give up something personally. And enraged the hard core partisans who look to government to accommodate partisan interests.

 

[Plasmaball]

oh brother...

Nate Silver should talk about talking crazy stuff

Between the pundits and the partisans, you're dealing with a lot of very delusional people

evidence A

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I don't think the GOP blew it actually. I just think that with the help of the media, the Democrats were successful in demonizing Romney enough to lessen the enthusiasm for him.

I think the GOP should have realized they were in trouble when Romney became the only really viable candidate running.

Take a look at the rest of the GOP Primary field. Newt and Cain were running to push their book sales, and were quite honest about it. Bachmann and Santorum were running to advance their congressional careers and were quite open about it. Ron Paul was running to raise awareness for his platform. Perry was the only other serious contender and he folded early in the game.

Romney himself had a long list of negatives that have sank him in his own party's primary process more than once. When your only viable candidate willing to run is a reformed East Coast liberal, you're in trouble. His only support inside his own party came from the fact he wasn't Obama.

I will say this. Romney had some solid points on the campaign trail that deserved attention and debate. That's why I think the GOP is still viable going forward. We will have to have a debate about taxes, spending, and entitlements going forward. Time is running out.

But in the end, he just didn't have much support inside his own party and he had a campaign staff of folks that seemed to be clueless about how to run a national campaign or a get out the vote scheme. I definitely was of the opinion Obama deserved to lose, but I was not surprised at all when he won.

 

[Foxfyre]

But the fact is, to reelect Obama with the state the economy was/is in was so blindly partisan that some of us despair that we will ever regain common sense and a rational perspective in this country.

I can get this point. I was surprised all election season that the polling data was showing Obama carrying states like Wisconsin. I think the OP"s point, is that it takes real intelligence to see an uncomfortable truth and accept it as the truth. It's the height of lunacy to see an uncomfortable truth and deny it.

It was fairly clear that despite the state of the economy, the deficit, the debt, and the unemployment rate that Obama was going to win. I don't for the life of me know how that works but that happened.

Ok, that's a small lie. I do know how he won. It's the same way Bush won in 2004 and Clinton in 1996. The opposing party just decided to screw up a shot because they were scared of the incumbent. I'm just surprised the GOP actively blew the election.

To address another component of your post, there may be some truth that Romney was simply not appealing enough of a candidate to overcome partisan loyalties. That was certainly a component of the 1996 and 2004 elections. Neither Bob Dole nor John Kerry played well on television while Clinton was a rock star and Bush was more lovable. But both Clinton and Bush were also enjoying improving economies and things were looking up. Not so much with Obama.

So those of us who couldn't see how Obama could be re-elected--and I was one of them right up to the point the first election returns started coming in and then I knew--were comparing his first term to that of Jimmy Carter's. Jimmy was a lovable and beloved man back then, but he couldn't overcome a dismal and depressing economy. And that opened the door for a Ronald Reagan for whom there wasn't that much enthusiasm either. The 1980 election was a rejection of Carter much more than an endorsement of Reagan.

So why wasn't Obama rejected? The pundits will be writing about that for a long, long time but again I see it as a media who helped put the blame on the Republicans instead of the President and the Democrats in Congress. Was that creating a false illusion for a delusional people? The pundits perhaps will be analyzing that for a long, long time too.

We had a much more honest and competent media in 1980 than we do now.

 

[Plasmaball]

Oh I see if it is your side it is a opinion yet if a conservative says something it is delusion.....Please keep showing us what a hypocrite you are.

Wrong again.

Against my better judgment, I'll try one more time:

1. It is the opinion of the right that lower taxes and lower spending are better for the economy.

2. It is the opinion of the left that higher taxes and more spending are better for the economy.

3. Mac1958 is delusional if he thinks he can have a rational, intellectually honest, civil conversation with partisan ideologues such as thenatos144.

.

And yet that is not what the prior post said .... Do you know why you dislike debating me? Cause I dont allow you to be a dishonest ass without pointing it out.

nobody likes debating you because you are a moron.

 

[Dot Com]

.

Delusion has always played a big part in partisan politics, but I don't think the evidence has ever been more vivid than in 2012.

Between the right wing radio talk show hosts and the "pundits" on Fox, these people literally created their own little world, their own little political bubble. And probably the icing on the cake was Rove on election night.

Let's see if anything is learned, huh?

Karl Rove Loses It On Fox News Election Night - YouTube

he must have a clause in his contract saying that he gets paid no matter the results.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/election-forums/261405-how-to-blow-175-000-000-a.html

 

[Mac1958]

If you are a union member you are infacto a communist member. Thats not a extreme that just the truth.

No, if you're a union member, you're a union member. That's just the truth. The rest is embellishments you're making up to try to sell your point.

I see you are a union member which happens to be a communist organization but that means you are not a communist?????? You eat paint chips when you were young?

Holy crap.



I have to ask: Is it possible this person is actually a liberal trying to make the Right look as goofy as possible?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but come ON.

.

 

[Dot Com]

.

Delusion has always played a big part in partisan politics, but I don't think the evidence has ever been more vivid than in 2012.

Between the right wing radio talk show hosts and the "pundits" on Fox, these people literally created their own little world, their own little political bubble. And probably the icing on the cake was Rove on election night.

Let's see if anything is learned, huh?

Karl Rove Loses It On Fox News Election Night - YouTube

that was priceless.

Many USMB members view me as a sanctimonious right wingnut, ideologue, partisan to the inth degree, etc. etc. etc. And none of that is actually true and I did find the opening posts for this thread to be interesting. Nate Silver is one of the pundits that I regularly read along with several other commentators who are usually left of center, though I respect Silver's scholarship a bit less than some of the others because of the huge leaps he sometimes makes that simply cannot be supported with the facts.

But the fact is, to reelect Obama with the state the economy was/is in was so blindly partisan that some of us despair that we will ever regain common sense and a rational perspective in this country. I simply refuse to believe that 52% of Americans WANT a 14+ trillion dollar debt, high unemployment, ever increasing dependency on government handouts, diminishing opportunity for our young people to succeed in reaching for their dreams, and eroding credit and prestige around the world.

And if anybody thinks the Republicans are any less self serving, dishonest, and manipulative than are the Democrats in Congress, he or she simply has not been paying attention.

What would it take to set aside party affiliation and partisan loyalities and take each issue, one at a time, and decide how to deal with it? That isn't going to happen as long as each side is intent on insulting, demonizing, accusing, and blaming the other and refusing to acknowledge things as they are.

rw liar w/o links

Fact is people SERIOUSLY did NOT WANT what Republicorp was selling, the same old: lower taxes on the wealthy & deregulation. Been there, done that, & lost our shirt to prove it

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think the GOP blew it actually. I just think that with the help of the media, the Democrats were successful in demonizing Romney enough to lessen the enthusiasm for him.

I think the GOP should have realized they were in trouble when Romney became the only really viable candidate running.

Take a look at the rest of the GOP Primary field. Newt and Cain were running to push their book sales, and were quite honest about it. Bachmann and Santorum were running to advance their congressional careers and were quite open about it. Ron Paul was running to raise awareness for his platform. Perry was the only other serious contender and he folded early in the game.

Romney himself had a long list of negatives that have sank him in his own party's primary process more than once. When your only viable candidate willing to run is a reformed East Coast liberal, you're in trouble. His only support inside his own party came from the fact he wasn't Obama.

I will say this. Romney had some solid points on the campaign trail that deserved attention and debate. That's why I think the GOP is still viable going forward. We will have to have a debate about taxes, spending, and entitlements going forward. Time is running out.

But in the end, he just didn't have much support inside his own party and he had a campaign staff of folks that seemed to be clueless about how to run a national campaign or a get out the vote scheme. I definitely was of the opinion Obama deserved to lose, but I was not surprised at all when he won.

Yes Romney did have some solid points, and from my perspective Obama had essentially none, so I put my support behind Romney. He was NOT my first choice to be the nominee--actually Perry was---but once he gained the nomination, he convinced me that he would do his best to do some things that have to be done if we are going to get out of the mess we are in.

I am still convinced that he would disappoint many of us us in some ways, but he would have been head and shoulders the best man in the White House among those we were given to choose from.

Unfortunately, as you pointed out, he was not unable to shake his east coast liberal persona, or his privileged rich man persona, sufficiently to win enough hearts and minds.

Obama failed miserably to lead, to accomplish, to provide direction, to see the bigger picture and address it. So are those who supported and/or voted for him delusional that he somehow was good in his job? Or that as bad as it was the first four years, he has somehow learned how to do it right now?

Or are those of us who are disappointed in, frustrated with, and now oppose Obama the ones who are delusional and have it all wrong?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

So why wasn't Obama rejected? The pundits will be writing about that for a long, long time but again I see it as a media who helped put the blame on the Republicans instead of the President and the Democrats in Congress. Was that creating a false illusion for a delusional people? The pundits perhaps will be analyzing that for a long, long time too.

We had a much more honest and competent media in 1980 than we do now.

Same reason Bush himself wasn't rejected in 2004. It's hard to move a partisan across the party line and unless there's an overwhelming reason, it's hard to move the swing voters away from the incumbents. It doesn't help when a weak President gets handed an even weaker opponent, like Bush had in Kerry or Obama in Romney.

As for the media: Ironically I think the fragmenting of the media hasn't helped make any of it more honest. MSNBC isn't going to draw back Conservative viewers so they have to cater to their liberal audience to survive, ditto Fox News and Cons. At this point, sad as it is, I think CNN is probably the closest to a "center" viewpoint on the events and even they lean Left. Once an organization gets a reputation for being a "Leaning Left" or "Leaning Right" institution, they're fairly well screwed.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Obama failed miserably to lead, to accomplish, to provide direction, to see the bigger picture and address it. So are those who supported and/or voted for him delusional that he somehow was good in his job? Or that as bad as it was the first four years, he has somehow learned how to do it right now?

I don't disagree with this. I think Obama has terrible leadership skills. Arguably the worst of any of the modern Presidents I've seen in my lifetime. He can't keep his own party in line, he can barely keep the military in line, and he can't seem to figure out how to negotiate with his opponents.

I think he largely got re-elected because of the squishy "Personal Likability" factors and the fact the GOP ran Romney. A stronger candidate would have had a real job cut out for him to unseat Obama, but I think could have done it.