Shutting Down Debate and Criticism

[HenryBHough]

To the OP:

Trump won.

Shrillary lost.

Elections have consequences.

Now get over it and hie your sore ass to the very back of the bus where you belong for the next eight years.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

President elect Trump vowed to be the president of all the people, including you. So your voice and opinions will be considered not dismissed out of hand. Now that said be realistic, Trump ran on a platform of campaign promises he's not going to adopt a Hillary position on an issue just because you favor her position over his. But as best as he can he will try to represent all the people.

Of course I don't expect the Trump administration to promote the liberal agenda. But he is signaling a very extreme rightwing agenda. I don't mean Obamacare, immigration or SCOTUS appointees; I mean Sessions as AG, Mnuchin as Treasury Secretary, Price as HHS Secretary, privatizing SS, Medicare/medicaid, opening up private land to resource exploitation, drilling in protected lands like ANWR, and totally denying concerns over accelerated global warming.

(sigh) okay name one "extreme" rightwing agenda item. Secure the borders, deport illegal bad guys, keep jobs in America, bring jobs and money back to America from other countries, kill terrorist fuckers who are running around cutting peoples heads off. None of that sounds "extreme" to me.

I didn't list any of those as extreme. I did list those which I do perceive to be extremely rightwing. Read my entire response.

I don't have time to read your manifesto, list the top 2 in 2 lines or less otherwise I'll move on.

Not my OP; my *response* of one paragraph 2 posts above in this post and bolded.

 

[B. Kidd]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

Your OP 'sucks balls'. Democraps haven't been willing to compromise since 'Hector was a pup'..........and that was a long, long time ago, in a faraway galaxy.

So you're just gonna validate everything I wrote in the OP? Ok. Thanks. I'm not a Democrat.

Whatever your politics are, you sound like a wolf in sheeps' clothing.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

To the OP:

Trump won.

Shrillary lost.

Elections have consequences.

Now get over it and hie your sore ass to the very back of the bus where you belong for the next eight years.

You've proved my point. Thanks.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

Your OP 'sucks balls'. Democraps haven't been willing to compromise since 'Hector was a pup'..........and that was a long, long time ago, in a faraway galaxy.

So you're just gonna validate everything I wrote in the OP? Ok. Thanks. I'm not a Democrat.

Whatever your politics are, you sound like a wolf in sheeps' clothing.

I'm a liberal registered Independent.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

There is a seat for you, in the back of the bus.

Elections have consequences

We may pass legislation via back room deals and without a single democrat vote.



Remember any of that? Yeah? Then stop fucking whining.

 

[BluesLegend]

President elect Trump vowed to be the president of all the people, including you. So your voice and opinions will be considered not dismissed out of hand. Now that said be realistic, Trump ran on a platform of campaign promises he's not going to adopt a Hillary position on an issue just because you favor her position over his. But as best as he can he will try to represent all the people.

Of course I don't expect the Trump administration to promote the liberal agenda. But he is signaling a very extreme rightwing agenda. I don't mean Obamacare, immigration or SCOTUS appointees; I mean Sessions as AG, Mnuchin as Treasury Secretary, Price as HHS Secretary, privatizing SS, Medicare/medicaid, opening up private land to resource exploitation, drilling in protected lands like ANWR, and totally denying concerns over accelerated global warming.

(sigh) okay name one "extreme" rightwing agenda item. Secure the borders, deport illegal bad guys, keep jobs in America, bring jobs and money back to America from other countries, kill terrorist fuckers who are running around cutting peoples heads off. None of that sounds "extreme" to me.

I didn't list any of those as extreme. I did list those which I do perceive to be extremely rightwing. Read my entire response.

I don't have time to read your manifesto, list the top 2 in 2 lines or less otherwise I'll move on.

Not my OP; my *response* of one paragraph 2 posts above in this post and bolded.

Ah, well you have no points. None of those people have done anything yet for you to get worked up about. There's nothing wrong with drilling in ANWR. And Global Warming is a bunch of crap, like the so called science behind it that advocates don't want peer reviewed or any opposition discussion at all. That every fucking proposed solution to global warming is a tax increase wow shocker.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

There is a seat for you, in the back of the bus.

Elections have consequences

We may pass legislation via back room deals and without a single democrat vote.



Remember any of that? Yeah? Then stop fucking whining.

Whatever, you're a nevertrumper who jumped on the bandwagon. I used to respect your stances, but now you've lost all-credibility. I hope you sit on a black dildo. On accident.

 

[initforme]

It is my god given right to slam my country in the privacy of my home whenever I choose and not a one of you can do anything about it. If youy think you could cmon.

 

[Zander]

"We don't mind Republicans joining us but they gotta sick in the back" Barack Hussein Obama

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

We may pass legislation via back room deals and without a single democrat vote.

Remember any of that? Yeah? Then stop fucking whining.

If they don't remember, WE certainly do! Obamacare forced on a country TOTALLY OPPOSED. They didn't give a damn what more than half the country thought. He had a pen, and a phone.

Well guess what? President Trump does too! Hopefully he'll undo every last EO of the last 8 years and get us out of this stagnated Obama economy

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Of course I don't expect the Trump administration to promote the liberal agenda. But he is signaling a very extreme rightwing agenda. I don't mean Obamacare, immigration or SCOTUS appointees; I mean Sessions as AG, Mnuchin as Treasury Secretary, Price as HHS Secretary, privatizing SS, Medicare/medicaid, opening up private land to resource exploitation, drilling in protected lands like ANWR, and totally denying concerns over accelerated global warming.

(sigh) okay name one "extreme" rightwing agenda item. Secure the borders, deport illegal bad guys, keep jobs in America, bring jobs and money back to America from other countries, kill terrorist fuckers who are running around cutting peoples heads off. None of that sounds "extreme" to me.

I didn't list any of those as extreme. I did list those which I do perceive to be extremely rightwing. Read my entire response.

I don't have time to read your manifesto, list the top 2 in 2 lines or less otherwise I'll move on.

Not my OP; my *response* of one paragraph 2 posts above in this post and bolded.

Ah, well you have no points. None of those people have done anything yet for you to get worked up about. There's nothing wrong with drilling in ANWR. And Global Warming is a bunch of crap, like the so called science behind it that advocates don't want peer reviewed or any opposition discussion at all. That every fucking proposed solution to global warming is a tax increase wow shocker.

Then address my concerns rationally with reasoning instead of invalidating them and shutting them down.

 

[Boss]

Here's the thing.... You're gonna hear "We Won, You Lost... sit down and shut up... Elections have Consequences!" I mean, don't fool yourself, that's what you;'re going to get, like it or not.

Fortunately, our system has been established with a mechanism of checks and balances to prevent the prevailing political party from being too fascist in governing. Many people will say we have a "two party system" but in reality, we have a "one party system" and that is whichever party has majority control of Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government. The minority party serves the roll of keeping the majority in check. In two years, we'll have more elections and power may shift again. This is just how politics work in America.

As for the polarization, that has been a serious problem since.... oh, probably around Bill Clinton's impeachment. I guess you could argue it goes further back, but that seems to be the point at which we became so vehemently divided as a nation and we've never recovered.

One of the things that I thought might be good about a Trump presidency is that he represents a political outsider who isn't loyal to either party, therefore, he has the potential to somewhat "reset" the table and bring us back to a more bipartisan state. I don't know that this will happen, especially given the way the left seems to be digging in their heels and determined to try and obstruct him at ever turn, but.... here's the thing about that.... they virtually lost all their political power this go around and it will be hard for them to block anything by themselves. They are literally going to be forced to start compromising and working with Republicans to get anything done.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

"We don't mind Republicans joining us but they gotta sick in the back" Barack Hussein Obama

I'll bet Trump will never be THIS classless.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

We may pass legislation via back room deals and without a single democrat vote.

Remember any of that? Yeah? Then stop fucking whining.

If they don't remember, WE certainly do! Obamacare forced on a country TOTALLY OPPOSED. They didn't give a damn what more than half the country thought. He had a pen, and a phone.

Well guess what? President Trump does too! Hopefully he'll undo every last EO of the last 8 years and get us out of this stagnated Obama economy

Yes, Obamacare has cost the Democrats. You better hope Trump and the GOP remember that come 2020.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

I think you misunderstand the context of the We Won statements.

I have not seen such statements directed at liberals who are discussing how they will fight to protect their agenda, or something constructive.


I have seen it directed at lefties who are engaged in the same panic mongering and slander that defined the left's behavior during the election.


The point is that their strategy of shouting down and marginalizing people they don't like, not only failed, but cannot at this point prevent Trump and the GOP from being in charge come Jan.

Correll's normal alt right racial and social taboos invest his analysis with error.

The economic hope inspired by Trump drove that white working class endorsement of his campaign, not issues of race or social concerns.

Trump delivers on jobs, or there will be hell to pay.

 

[initforme]

My flag? Where is it?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

"We don't mind Republicans joining us but they gotta sick in the back" Barack Hussein Obama

I'll bet Trump will never be THIS classless.

Too late. Wayyyyyy to fucking late!

 

[yiostheoy]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

He just told United Technologies big wigs that tax changes are coming and they include lower corporate tax rates (both the GOP and the DEM's agree on this) and that there would be new tariff rules on US corporations that shift production overseas and then try to bring the product back into the USA (the DEM's agree with this and the GOP leadership will be his worst opponents on this ironically).

Additionally Chuck Schumer as the new Senate Minority Leader has plenty of filibuster power to use as a veto of his own. I am guessing he will veto any changes to ACA. Just a guess.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Yes, Obamacare has cost the Democrats. You better hope Trump and the GOP remember that come 2020.

Yep. That's why we're gonna repeal this fiasco