CDZ Should we ban street racing cars?

[Lewdog]

What is the purpose of a gun? What is it used for? When you shoot a gun, what are you trying to accomplish?

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rape, robbery and murder.....

In all rapes, robberies and murders, the criminals use automobiles to commit the crimes......

There you go.

You have no clue how many really occurred.

I'll ask you one more time, then I'm out. If you are an honest person you'll answer.

When you fire a gun, WHAT is your purpose? And I don't mean at the range.

When you drive a car are you thinking about killing people with it?

You have no clue how many really occurred.

We have a lot of research that gives us a pretty good idea how many times Americans use their guns for self defense...


A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

You don't have any idea how many actually occurred because crime stats reporting is totally fucked up.

Do you realize it comes to what a Police officer wants to write in the report? And do you think officers like guns and would want to make sure when writing a report about an attempted crime, they put in the report it was stopped by the owner having a gun? Of course they would.

Not to mention, when it comes to self-reporting attempted criminal acts, of course the victim who stopped the crime is going to exaggerate to make themselves look better. Hell how many people do think in a survey about stopping crime with guns is going to make up a story just to make guns look better?

I can tear holes in all your arguments.

Sorry...actual research shows you don't understand the issue....

On defensive gun use research....

Myth #3 - "2.5 million defensive gun uses each year can't be accurate" | Buckeye Firearms Association

First, consider some factors which could produce an overestimate. The sample size, or number of persons surveyed, while smaller than the NCVS, is several times larger than that usually used in most public opinion polls. Extrapolating from too small of a sample is one way to get an overestimate, but this is not a problem for Kleck's survey, since the Gallup Poll and the Roper Center routinely use samples smaller than this for their national surveys. (The results of such national polls are often promoted as newsworthy.) As Kleck notes, the random sampling error of his survey is less than 1%. The phenomenon known as "telescoping," in which past events are remembered as being much more recent than they actually are, could account for some increase in reported DGUs, but Kleck's survey, which uses two time periods, asking about events in the past five years, and within the last twelve months, takes this into account. Kleck's definition of a DGU to include defense of property could serve to increase the number of reported DGUs, since use of deadly force to protect property is not legally recognized in many states. Kleck notes however, that it was not the purpose of the survey to discern the legality or morality of the respondent's actions.

One possible source of overestimation that has been seized upon by critics wanting to explain away Kleck's results is what Kleck terms the "dishonest respondent" hypothesis, or in other words, that the respondents made up a story about a DGU. Only 24% of respondents reporting a DGU claimed to have fired their gun, and even if one were to discard these reported DGUs entirely (and arbitrarily) as overly dramatic, this leaves well over a million and a half estimated DGUs, a rate twenty times that of the estimate derived from the NCVS. To assume that even 24% of respondents are actively trying to create a dramatic story which is internally consistent enough to deceive the experienced team of interviewers Kleck used, much less a sufficient number to account for the vast difference in estimates between the Kleck survey and the NCVS, is in itself hard to believe. For the NCVS to miss a DGU requires only that the respondent not volunteer the information, but as Kleck observes "[t]here is no precedent in criminological research" for the "enormous level of intentional and sustained falsification" on the part of respondents which would be required in order to account for the 30-fold difference in estimated annual DGUs between Kleck's survey and the NCVS.

Indeed, Kleck argues, there is reason to believe that the estimate of 2.5 million annual DGUs is too low. There is the problem of self-censorship in reporting, since there is evidence that some respondents to the Kleck survey were wary of reporting such incidents to anonymous strangers, much less to government officials as in the NCVS. Several respondents expressed suspicion of the interviewer prior to answering "no" to the DGU question, perhaps because they view their actions as legally questionable. There may also be instances in which respondents regarded their own DGU incidents as too minor to report, or households in which DGU incidents of other household members were not known to the respondent, or where it was not considered appropriate to discuss the DGU incidents of other household members. The limitations of a telephone survey preclude sampling among the 5% of American households without telephones, most of which are poor and/or rural. As poor people are more likely to be victims of crime, and there is a higher rate of gun ownership in rural areas, this could also contribute to an underestimation of the number of DGUs.

Sorry, but yes it is flawed. Any time you ask a person to fill out a survey, they are going to be biased, especially when it comes to an issue like guns. People like you, will exaggerate almost every time. You WANT guns to have a good reputation.

Go to another country and do a survey there about guns, especially in a country like Australia. They are humanoids right? They live in the same kind of world as people in the U.S. They work, they play, they love... all the same things Americans do. Now find me a survey about guns from there.

 

[2aguy]

And I told you.....it doesn't matter.....cars actually kill more people than all guns used illegally or accidentally.....

accidental death comparison, car v. gun..

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder v. Car death.....

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder.....2016


FBI....11,004

Cars are deadlier in every way than guns are.....the numbers show this.....

It DOES matter. When you fire a gun, what is your purpose for doing so?

When you drive your car, is the first thing going through your head "Hey I plan on running people over today!"

Your numbers don't matter if you aren't going to do the percentages.

In 2016 there were 222 million people with driver's licenses, which doesn't account for those that drive despite not having one, nor the fact that cars are constantly in use.

55 million people own guns...

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

First, that stat is not correct.....gun owners no longer answer polls from anonymous pollsters....especially after democrat news papers decided to post the names and addresses of gun owners......

And again.....cars actually put more bodies on the ground than guns do........

I gave you the actual dead people count...cars, street killing machines, kill more people every single year than guns do.

And when you use a gun, Americans use them 1,500,000 times a year to save lives.......

criminals use cars to commit their crimes......

You won't answer the questions, you just proved you are a dishonest person that hides behind stats that create a spurious argument.

I gave you actual numbers......cars kill more people every single year than guns do...that is a fact.

Give me stats on how many people kill people on purpose with their car.

Let's see... the CDC doesn't really break down car deaths...they have a category struck by or against...not helpful...

I know...let's look at mass public murder.....

Which item murdered more people in a mass public killing, a gun or a car....?

the car.


A muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental truck to murder 86 people in 5 minutes.

That is a larger number of people murdered in one attack than each mass shooting in our country.....even the vegas shooter didn't kill that many......and Lawn mowers...don't get me started on those death machines...they also have killed more people than mass shooters in shooting incidents....

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

Rental Truck in Nice, France, 86 murdered in 5 minutes...

Total number murdered in mass public shootings by year...

Lawn mower deaths every year.... more than 75

(Lawn Mower Accidents Rise This Time of Year | MU News Bureau)

Total murdered each year....


2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8

 

[Lewdog]

It isn't people reacting to unnecessary violent deaths who have caused the problem, it is the mental inability to adapt an ancient concept to the present world.

Yeah I have to deal with this same issue in one of my Grad classes. People talk about the horrific things that happen in the world, like wars, and crime... and then they have this idea that if you can get all the way to a root, they think we can fix everything. Too many people have this unrealistic idea that we can get rid of wars and crime, but we can't. We never will. Greed, ego, and all kinds of issues that make man a flawed being is ingrained, and even in a perfect world where everyone had money, and housing, and anything they ever wanted, there would still be some people who will want more, and to have the power to tell other people what to do.

It gets frustrating, because one of the important things about setting goals is to set achievable ones.

The fundamental psychological condition of humans engenders neurosis, given our current socialization constraints. We know that the mind is confronted with an existential quandary of freedom/liberty. In an absolute sense, we can do whatever we like without consequence, as one day we will no longer exist and what we have done will count for nil. In a relative sense, we have emotions and attachments that imply (at least conditional) limits on 'freedom'.
Out of this neurotic atmosphere emerge those who only seek power for aggrandizement. It can take any number of forms, but in the end, power seduces the weak minded. Be it military, political, economic or simply brute physical power, these poor persons cannot resist the inclination to dominate. So, of course, any implement at hand can be used for this exercise of 'power, from a sheet of paper (which is possible to use to cut a throat) to the atom bomb.
Cars could be isolated as one of those implements.

I actually saw on the show Adam Ruins Everything, they talk about how cars have ruined society, and that in some cities, parking lots have become more valuable than apartments.

If you can watch it, it is pretty interesting.

http://www.trutv.com/shows/adam-ruins-everything/blog/adams-sources/adam-ruins-cars.html

 

[2aguy]

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rape, robbery and murder.....

In all rapes, robberies and murders, the criminals use automobiles to commit the crimes......

There you go.

You have no clue how many really occurred.

I'll ask you one more time, then I'm out. If you are an honest person you'll answer.

When you fire a gun, WHAT is your purpose? And I don't mean at the range.

When you drive a car are you thinking about killing people with it?

You have no clue how many really occurred.

We have a lot of research that gives us a pretty good idea how many times Americans use their guns for self defense...


A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

You don't have any idea how many actually occurred because crime stats reporting is totally fucked up.

Do you realize it comes to what a Police officer wants to write in the report? And do you think officers like guns and would want to make sure when writing a report about an attempted crime, they put in the report it was stopped by the owner having a gun? Of course they would.

Not to mention, when it comes to self-reporting attempted criminal acts, of course the victim who stopped the crime is going to exaggerate to make themselves look better. Hell how many people do think in a survey about stopping crime with guns is going to make up a story just to make guns look better?

I can tear holes in all your arguments.

Sorry...actual research shows you don't understand the issue....

On defensive gun use research....

Myth #3 - "2.5 million defensive gun uses each year can't be accurate" | Buckeye Firearms Association

First, consider some factors which could produce an overestimate. The sample size, or number of persons surveyed, while smaller than the NCVS, is several times larger than that usually used in most public opinion polls. Extrapolating from too small of a sample is one way to get an overestimate, but this is not a problem for Kleck's survey, since the Gallup Poll and the Roper Center routinely use samples smaller than this for their national surveys. (The results of such national polls are often promoted as newsworthy.) As Kleck notes, the random sampling error of his survey is less than 1%. The phenomenon known as "telescoping," in which past events are remembered as being much more recent than they actually are, could account for some increase in reported DGUs, but Kleck's survey, which uses two time periods, asking about events in the past five years, and within the last twelve months, takes this into account. Kleck's definition of a DGU to include defense of property could serve to increase the number of reported DGUs, since use of deadly force to protect property is not legally recognized in many states. Kleck notes however, that it was not the purpose of the survey to discern the legality or morality of the respondent's actions.

One possible source of overestimation that has been seized upon by critics wanting to explain away Kleck's results is what Kleck terms the "dishonest respondent" hypothesis, or in other words, that the respondents made up a story about a DGU. Only 24% of respondents reporting a DGU claimed to have fired their gun, and even if one were to discard these reported DGUs entirely (and arbitrarily) as overly dramatic, this leaves well over a million and a half estimated DGUs, a rate twenty times that of the estimate derived from the NCVS. To assume that even 24% of respondents are actively trying to create a dramatic story which is internally consistent enough to deceive the experienced team of interviewers Kleck used, much less a sufficient number to account for the vast difference in estimates between the Kleck survey and the NCVS, is in itself hard to believe. For the NCVS to miss a DGU requires only that the respondent not volunteer the information, but as Kleck observes "[t]here is no precedent in criminological research" for the "enormous level of intentional and sustained falsification" on the part of respondents which would be required in order to account for the 30-fold difference in estimated annual DGUs between Kleck's survey and the NCVS.

Indeed, Kleck argues, there is reason to believe that the estimate of 2.5 million annual DGUs is too low. There is the problem of self-censorship in reporting, since there is evidence that some respondents to the Kleck survey were wary of reporting such incidents to anonymous strangers, much less to government officials as in the NCVS. Several respondents expressed suspicion of the interviewer prior to answering "no" to the DGU question, perhaps because they view their actions as legally questionable. There may also be instances in which respondents regarded their own DGU incidents as too minor to report, or households in which DGU incidents of other household members were not known to the respondent, or where it was not considered appropriate to discuss the DGU incidents of other household members. The limitations of a telephone survey preclude sampling among the 5% of American households without telephones, most of which are poor and/or rural. As poor people are more likely to be victims of crime, and there is a higher rate of gun ownership in rural areas, this could also contribute to an underestimation of the number of DGUs.

Sorry, but yes it is flawed. Any time you ask a person to fill out a survey, they are going to be biased, especially when it comes to an issue like guns. People like you, will exaggerate almost every time. You WANT guns to have a good reputation.

Go to another country and do a survey there about guns, especially in a country like Australia. They are humanoids right? They live in the same kind of world as people in the U.S. They work, they play, they love... all the same things Americans do. Now find me a survey about guns from there.

No...you are wrong...those researchers asked about defensive gun use, so your Australian point is not a point.....and gun crime in Australia is going up and their gun control confiscation did not stop their public shootings....

 

[2aguy]

It isn't people reacting to unnecessary violent deaths who have caused the problem, it is the mental inability to adapt an ancient concept to the present world.

Yeah I have to deal with this same issue in one of my Grad classes. People talk about the horrific things that happen in the world, like wars, and crime... and then they have this idea that if you can get all the way to a root, they think we can fix everything. Too many people have this unrealistic idea that we can get rid of wars and crime, but we can't. We never will. Greed, ego, and all kinds of issues that make man a flawed being is ingrained, and even in a perfect world where everyone had money, and housing, and anything they ever wanted, there would still be some people who will want more, and to have the power to tell other people what to do.

It gets frustrating, because one of the important things about setting goals is to set achievable ones.

The fundamental psychological condition of humans engenders neurosis, given our current socialization constraints. We know that the mind is confronted with an existential quandary of freedom/liberty. In an absolute sense, we can do whatever we like without consequence, as one day we will no longer exist and what we have done will count for nil. In a relative sense, we have emotions and attachments that imply (at least conditional) limits on 'freedom'.
Out of this neurotic atmosphere emerge those who only seek power for aggrandizement. It can take any number of forms, but in the end, power seduces the weak minded. Be it military, political, economic or simply brute physical power, these poor persons cannot resist the inclination to dominate. So, of course, any implement at hand can be used for this exercise of 'power, from a sheet of paper (which is possible to use to cut a throat) to the atom bomb.
Cars could be isolated as one of those implements.

I actually saw on the show Adam Ruins Everything, they talk about how cars have ruined society, and that in some cities, parking lots have become more valuable than apartments.

If you can watch it, it is pretty interesting.

Adam Ruins Everything - Adam Ruins Cars - truTV.com

See...exactly.....which is why cars need to be banned.......I mean.....er......street racers, street killing machines need to be banned.

 

[Lewdog]

It DOES matter. When you fire a gun, what is your purpose for doing so?

When you drive your car, is the first thing going through your head "Hey I plan on running people over today!"

Your numbers don't matter if you aren't going to do the percentages.

In 2016 there were 222 million people with driver's licenses, which doesn't account for those that drive despite not having one, nor the fact that cars are constantly in use.

55 million people own guns...

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

First, that stat is not correct.....gun owners no longer answer polls from anonymous pollsters....especially after democrat news papers decided to post the names and addresses of gun owners......

And again.....cars actually put more bodies on the ground than guns do........

I gave you the actual dead people count...cars, street killing machines, kill more people every single year than guns do.

And when you use a gun, Americans use them 1,500,000 times a year to save lives.......

criminals use cars to commit their crimes......

You won't answer the questions, you just proved you are a dishonest person that hides behind stats that create a spurious argument.

I gave you actual numbers......cars kill more people every single year than guns do...that is a fact.

Give me stats on how many people kill people on purpose with their car.

Why does intent matter......cars accidentally kill 38,748 people while criminals, using guns in an illegal manner only murdered 11,004 people...

So the actual facts show that the accidental death rate with cars.....is higher than he intentional murder rate with guns...

That only supports my contention that all cars need to be banned....er.......that dangerous, street racing, killing machines need to be banned....

MORE PEOPLE OWN CARS AND USE THEM ALMOST EVERY DAY.

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Illegal street racing is a problem in some cities......you get these young people in suped up cars racing down actual public streets, inspired by movies like "The Fast and Furious."

In order to keep people safe, we need to make sure that street racing cars, like the Toyota Camry, are banned for civilians...no one needs a street racing car like a Toyota Camry.....

How many teenagers die in car accidents? How many from texting while driving?

Raise the driving age and the age to possess a cell phone to 21.

But the problem isn't the cell phone, it's the not concentrating while driving.

The UK has a driving fatality rate nearly 1/4 of the US rate, similar to the difference between murder rates of the two countries.

The UK actually deals with the problems, the US doesn't bother.

 

[2aguy]

First, that stat is not correct.....gun owners no longer answer polls from anonymous pollsters....especially after democrat news papers decided to post the names and addresses of gun owners......

And again.....cars actually put more bodies on the ground than guns do........

I gave you the actual dead people count...cars, street killing machines, kill more people every single year than guns do.

And when you use a gun, Americans use them 1,500,000 times a year to save lives.......

criminals use cars to commit their crimes......

You won't answer the questions, you just proved you are a dishonest person that hides behind stats that create a spurious argument.

I gave you actual numbers......cars kill more people every single year than guns do...that is a fact.

Give me stats on how many people kill people on purpose with their car.

Why does intent matter......cars accidentally kill 38,748 people while criminals, using guns in an illegal manner only murdered 11,004 people...

So the actual facts show that the accidental death rate with cars.....is higher than he intentional murder rate with guns...

That only supports my contention that all cars need to be banned....er.......that dangerous, street racing, killing machines need to be banned....

MORE PEOPLE OWN CARS AND USE THEM ALMOST EVERY DAY.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Nothing...but you can't seem to understand that cars kill more people every single year than guns do....and the cars are doing it in accidents, where the guns are intentionally used illegally....making cars even more dangerous...imagine if people actually decided to use cars for murder.....like the guy in Nice, France....86 people murdered in 5 minutes....more people murdered in one go than in each mass shooting, and total mass shooting deaths by year.....

 

[2aguy]

Illegal street racing is a problem in some cities......you get these young people in suped up cars racing down actual public streets, inspired by movies like "The Fast and Furious."

In order to keep people safe, we need to make sure that street racing cars, like the Toyota Camry, are banned for civilians...no one needs a street racing car like a Toyota Camry.....

How many teenagers die in car accidents? How many from texting while driving?

Raise the driving age and the age to possess a cell phone to 21.

But the problem isn't the cell phone, it's the not concentrating while driving.

The UK has a driving fatality rate nearly 1/4 of the US rate, similar to the difference between murder rates of the two countries.

The UK actually deals with the problems, the US doesn't bother.

No.....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rates have gone down. Britain banned and confiscted guns and their crime rates are going up.....

The U.S.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

 

[Lewdog]

You won't answer the questions, you just proved you are a dishonest person that hides behind stats that create a spurious argument.

I gave you actual numbers......cars kill more people every single year than guns do...that is a fact.

Give me stats on how many people kill people on purpose with their car.

Why does intent matter......cars accidentally kill 38,748 people while criminals, using guns in an illegal manner only murdered 11,004 people...

So the actual facts show that the accidental death rate with cars.....is higher than he intentional murder rate with guns...

That only supports my contention that all cars need to be banned....er.......that dangerous, street racing, killing machines need to be banned....

MORE PEOPLE OWN CARS AND USE THEM ALMOST EVERY DAY.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Nothing...but you can't seem to understand that cars kill more people every single year than guns do....and the cars are doing it in accidents, where the guns are intentionally used illegally....making cars even more dangerous...imagine if people actually decided to use cars for murder.....like the guy in Nice, France....86 people murdered in 5 minutes....more people murdered in one go than in each mass shooting, and total mass shooting deaths by year.....

Show me stats on how many people INTENTIONALLY killed people with a car.

Post some gun surveys from other countries like Australia.

That attack in France? Horrible... but how many mass shootings have they had? How does their stats compare to the U.S. on that?

Do you understand how silly you look when you focus on one issue and not the whole picture?

I'm not calling you a racist, but your attempt at logic for this issue is EXACTLY the style of arguing that they use.

 

[Lewdog]

Illegal street racing is a problem in some cities......you get these young people in suped up cars racing down actual public streets, inspired by movies like "The Fast and Furious."

In order to keep people safe, we need to make sure that street racing cars, like the Toyota Camry, are banned for civilians...no one needs a street racing car like a Toyota Camry.....

How many teenagers die in car accidents? How many from texting while driving?

Raise the driving age and the age to possess a cell phone to 21.

But the problem isn't the cell phone, it's the not concentrating while driving.

The UK has a driving fatality rate nearly 1/4 of the US rate, similar to the difference between murder rates of the two countries.

The UK actually deals with the problems, the US doesn't bother.

No.....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rates have gone down. Britain banned and confiscted guns and their crime rates are going up.....

The U.S.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I know this might seem hard for you to understand, but crime rates go up and down all the time.

Not to mention, percentages are weighted when it comes to gun crime rates in Britain because when the original stat that is being used to compare to new ones is very low, then it is going to skew the numbers.

If Britain had 5 mass shootings in 2016, and then had 10 in 2017 you are talking about a 100% increase, but if you have 50 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2016 and then have 55 in 2017, the same increase of 5 more, you end up with only 10% increase, which is half of Britain's, despite them both increasing by the same amount. So are you still going to argue that the 20% increase is larger?

 

[August West]

I gave you actual numbers......cars kill more people every single year than guns do...that is a fact.

Give me stats on how many people kill people on purpose with their car.

Why does intent matter......cars accidentally kill 38,748 people while criminals, using guns in an illegal manner only murdered 11,004 people...

So the actual facts show that the accidental death rate with cars.....is higher than he intentional murder rate with guns...

That only supports my contention that all cars need to be banned....er.......that dangerous, street racing, killing machines need to be banned....

MORE PEOPLE OWN CARS AND USE THEM ALMOST EVERY DAY.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Nothing...but you can't seem to understand that cars kill more people every single year than guns do....and the cars are doing it in accidents, where the guns are intentionally used illegally....making cars even more dangerous...imagine if people actually decided to use cars for murder.....like the guy in Nice, France....86 people murdered in 5 minutes....more people murdered in one go than in each mass shooting, and total mass shooting deaths by year.....

Show me stats on how many people INTENTIONALLY killed people with a car.

Post some gun surveys from other countries like Australia.

That attack in France? Horrible... but how many mass shootings have they had? How does their stats compare to the U.S. on that?

Do you understand how silly you look when you focus on one issue and not the whole picture?

I'm not calling you a racist, but your attempt at logic for this issue is EXACTLY the style of arguing that they use.

The only thing he`ll show you is gun spam....all day long. I think he`s too nutty to be playing with guns.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Illegal street racing is a problem in some cities......you get these young people in suped up cars racing down actual public streets, inspired by movies like "The Fast and Furious."

In order to keep people safe, we need to make sure that street racing cars, like the Toyota Camry, are banned for civilians...no one needs a street racing car like a Toyota Camry.....

How many teenagers die in car accidents? How many from texting while driving?

Raise the driving age and the age to possess a cell phone to 21.

But the problem isn't the cell phone, it's the not concentrating while driving.

The UK has a driving fatality rate nearly 1/4 of the US rate, similar to the difference between murder rates of the two countries.

The UK actually deals with the problems, the US doesn't bother.

No.....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rates have gone down. Britain banned and confiscted guns and their crime rates are going up.....

The U.S.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I know this might seem hard for you to understand, but crime rates go up and down all the time.

Not to mention, percentages are weighted when it comes to gun crime rates in Britain because when the original stat that is being used to compare to new ones is very low, then it is going to skew the numbers.

If Britain had 5 mass shootings in 2016, and then had 6 in 2017 you are talking about a 20% increase, but if you have 50 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2016 and then have 55 in 2017, the same increase of 5 more, you end up with only 10% increase, which is half of Britain's, despite them both increasing by the same amount. So are you still going to argue that the 20% increase is larger?

Yes they do.

What might be hard for you to figure out is that crime rates went up and down in the UK too.

Look familiar? Yeah, it's the UK's crime.

Crime has gone down in the 21st Century because there's more entertainment that is easily accessible. Instead of having to go beat up some old bastard, you can shoot a hundred people in five minutes on Call of Duty.

The thing is the UK crime rate rose and fell from a low level, the US's crime rate rose and fell from a high level and is STILL 4 time HIGHER than the UK's crime rate.

You're talking about increases in shootings. Why? This doesn't mean much to people.

The UK has a low rate of shootings. If the shootings double in a year, the UK still has a rate much, much lower than the US's rate.

3/4 of all murders in the US are committed with guns. In the UK it's almost nothing. That's not to say it doesn't happen.

But to try and cherry pick statistics with just increase in "mass shootings", there were mass shootings in the UK in 2016?

You say five, I can't find five. You might be right, but then this would be the equivalent of a small state in the US.

 

[Lewdog]

Illegal street racing is a problem in some cities......you get these young people in suped up cars racing down actual public streets, inspired by movies like "The Fast and Furious."

In order to keep people safe, we need to make sure that street racing cars, like the Toyota Camry, are banned for civilians...no one needs a street racing car like a Toyota Camry.....

How many teenagers die in car accidents? How many from texting while driving?

Raise the driving age and the age to possess a cell phone to 21.

But the problem isn't the cell phone, it's the not concentrating while driving.

The UK has a driving fatality rate nearly 1/4 of the US rate, similar to the difference between murder rates of the two countries.

The UK actually deals with the problems, the US doesn't bother.

No.....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rates have gone down. Britain banned and confiscted guns and their crime rates are going up.....

The U.S.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I know this might seem hard for you to understand, but crime rates go up and down all the time.

Not to mention, percentages are weighted when it comes to gun crime rates in Britain because when the original stat that is being used to compare to new ones is very low, then it is going to skew the numbers.

If Britain had 5 mass shootings in 2016, and then had 6 in 2017 you are talking about a 20% increase, but if you have 50 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2016 and then have 55 in 2017, the same increase of 5 more, you end up with only 10% increase, which is half of Britain's, despite them both increasing by the same amount. So are you still going to argue that the 20% increase is larger?

Yes they do.

What might be hard for you to figure out is that crime rates went up and down in the UK too.

Look familiar? Yeah, it's the UK's crime.

Crime has gone down in the 21st Century because there's more entertainment that is easily accessible. Instead of having to go beat up some old bastard, you can shoot a hundred people in five minutes on Call of Duty.

The thing is the UK crime rate rose and fell from a low level, the US's crime rate rose and fell from a high level and is STILL 4 time HIGHER than the UK's crime rate.

You're talking about increases in shootings. Why? This doesn't mean much to people.

The UK has a low rate of shootings. If the shootings double in a year, the UK still has a rate much, much lower than the US's rate.

3/4 of all murders in the US are committed with guns. In the UK it's almost nothing. That's not to say it doesn't happen.

But to try and cherry pick statistics with just increase in "mass shootings", there were mass shootings in the UK in 2016?

You say five, I can't find five. You might be right, but then this would be the equivalent of a small state in the US.

I just said 5 as a hypothetical number in order to show 2aguy that percentages can be deceptive when there is a huge gap in raw numbers.

I would say the advancement of the internet is what has actually brought down violent crime rates.

 

[frigidweirdo]

How many teenagers die in car accidents? How many from texting while driving?

Raise the driving age and the age to possess a cell phone to 21.

But the problem isn't the cell phone, it's the not concentrating while driving.

The UK has a driving fatality rate nearly 1/4 of the US rate, similar to the difference between murder rates of the two countries.

The UK actually deals with the problems, the US doesn't bother.

No.....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rates have gone down. Britain banned and confiscted guns and their crime rates are going up.....

The U.S.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I know this might seem hard for you to understand, but crime rates go up and down all the time.

Not to mention, percentages are weighted when it comes to gun crime rates in Britain because when the original stat that is being used to compare to new ones is very low, then it is going to skew the numbers.

If Britain had 5 mass shootings in 2016, and then had 6 in 2017 you are talking about a 20% increase, but if you have 50 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2016 and then have 55 in 2017, the same increase of 5 more, you end up with only 10% increase, which is half of Britain's, despite them both increasing by the same amount. So are you still going to argue that the 20% increase is larger?

Yes they do.

What might be hard for you to figure out is that crime rates went up and down in the UK too.

Look familiar? Yeah, it's the UK's crime.

Crime has gone down in the 21st Century because there's more entertainment that is easily accessible. Instead of having to go beat up some old bastard, you can shoot a hundred people in five minutes on Call of Duty.

The thing is the UK crime rate rose and fell from a low level, the US's crime rate rose and fell from a high level and is STILL 4 time HIGHER than the UK's crime rate.

You're talking about increases in shootings. Why? This doesn't mean much to people.

The UK has a low rate of shootings. If the shootings double in a year, the UK still has a rate much, much lower than the US's rate.

3/4 of all murders in the US are committed with guns. In the UK it's almost nothing. That's not to say it doesn't happen.

But to try and cherry pick statistics with just increase in "mass shootings", there were mass shootings in the UK in 2016?

You say five, I can't find five. You might be right, but then this would be the equivalent of a small state in the US.

I just said 5 as a hypothetical number in order to show 2aguy that percentages can be deceptive when there is a huge gap in raw numbers.

I would say the advancement of the internet is what has actually brought down violent crime rates.

Well, potentially there are lots of entertaining things out there, the internet would be one of these.

US violent crime started dropping before the internet was in everyone's homes.

 

[007]

There's one fact that is at the CORE of the fascist NAZI left's hate for the constitution and the 2nd amendment. The modern day democrat party has turned full authoritarian, and authoritarians can't fully implement their agenda until they have full control over the people, and they can't have full control over the people until they have no more forms or recourse against tyranny. This is precisely where the democrat party is now. They are not interested in debate or differing opinions. If you disagree with them, they simply want to SHUT... YOU... UP... PERIOD, and they have no qualms about using FORCE to do that, but force won't work until they make sure people CAN'T defend themselves.

The day the government tries to disarm America, is the day you'll see the second Civil War. The millions upon millions of law abiding, gun owning Americans will never stand for it.

But it's not stopping the left from waging their all out propaganda campaign against LEGAL gun owners and the NRA, which is beyond moronic. Because like every time the left attacks gun rights, sales quadruple, they now started attacking the NRA and their membership sky rocketed, even people that don't own a gun are joining. I even joined.

Sometimes the left is too stupid to see that they are their own worst enemy, because the harder they attack legal citizens and their constitutional rights, the harder those legal citizens fight back. So for the left, it's one step forward and two steps back, done by their own authoritarian agenda and unhinged hatred for the constitutional rights of millions of American citizens

 

[2aguy]

I gave you actual numbers......cars kill more people every single year than guns do...that is a fact.

Give me stats on how many people kill people on purpose with their car.

Why does intent matter......cars accidentally kill 38,748 people while criminals, using guns in an illegal manner only murdered 11,004 people...

So the actual facts show that the accidental death rate with cars.....is higher than he intentional murder rate with guns...

That only supports my contention that all cars need to be banned....er.......that dangerous, street racing, killing machines need to be banned....

MORE PEOPLE OWN CARS AND USE THEM ALMOST EVERY DAY.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Nothing...but you can't seem to understand that cars kill more people every single year than guns do....and the cars are doing it in accidents, where the guns are intentionally used illegally....making cars even more dangerous...imagine if people actually decided to use cars for murder.....like the guy in Nice, France....86 people murdered in 5 minutes....more people murdered in one go than in each mass shooting, and total mass shooting deaths by year.....

Show me stats on how many people INTENTIONALLY killed people with a car.

Post some gun surveys from other countries like Australia.

That attack in France? Horrible... but how many mass shootings have they had? How does their stats compare to the U.S. on that?

Do you understand how silly you look when you focus on one issue and not the whole picture?

I'm not calling you a racist, but your attempt at logic for this issue is EXACTLY the style of arguing that they use.

I focus on the whole issue....you guys are taking a snap shot of other countries and you thought it would represent gun control working....but now, as their population changes, their gun crime rates are going up.

 

[2aguy]

Illegal street racing is a problem in some cities......you get these young people in suped up cars racing down actual public streets, inspired by movies like "The Fast and Furious."

In order to keep people safe, we need to make sure that street racing cars, like the Toyota Camry, are banned for civilians...no one needs a street racing car like a Toyota Camry.....

How many teenagers die in car accidents? How many from texting while driving?

Raise the driving age and the age to possess a cell phone to 21.

But the problem isn't the cell phone, it's the not concentrating while driving.

The UK has a driving fatality rate nearly 1/4 of the US rate, similar to the difference between murder rates of the two countries.

The UK actually deals with the problems, the US doesn't bother.

No.....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rates have gone down. Britain banned and confiscted guns and their crime rates are going up.....

The U.S.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




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Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

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Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

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He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

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Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I know this might seem hard for you to understand, but crime rates go up and down all the time.

Not to mention, percentages are weighted when it comes to gun crime rates in Britain because when the original stat that is being used to compare to new ones is very low, then it is going to skew the numbers.

If Britain had 5 mass shootings in 2016, and then had 10 in 2017 you are talking about a 100% increase, but if you have 50 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2016 and then have 55 in 2017, the same increase of 5 more, you end up with only 10% increase, which is half of Britain's, despite them both increasing by the same amount. So are you still going to argue that the 20% increase is larger?

Oh...now you want to talk about mass public shootings since I showed you that Britains gun crime rate has gone up...

Fine.....

Britain averaged one mass public shooting every 10 years......that has continued after the ban and confiscation of guns...

They had 3 mass shootings before they banned guns...one 1978 one in 1986, one in 1996.....and they had one in 2010...that would be 3 before the ban and one so far after the ban.....in exchange for doing nothing for their mass shooting rate....their citizens now suffer violent rapes and robberies at levels we don't see here in the states........

They averaged one spree shooting each decade....and so far that didn't change.....

The gun ban didn't stop their gun crime....it didn't stop their spree shootings......

Guns are not the issue in Britain or America...

List of major crimes in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

Then.....tell us.....how did British gun control stop the next too mass public shootings......and I will tell you the only thing saving Britain was dumb luck...you had 2 school shooters, with guns, ready to shoot up a school...one was caught because he posted on social media before the event, the other called the police on himself when he changed his mind.....dumb luck....their gun control laws did not stop them....

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack



Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.

As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.

According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.

Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.

The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.

In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”

He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.

====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'


15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.

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'

 

[2aguy]

Illegal street racing is a problem in some cities......you get these young people in suped up cars racing down actual public streets, inspired by movies like "The Fast and Furious."

In order to keep people safe, we need to make sure that street racing cars, like the Toyota Camry, are banned for civilians...no one needs a street racing car like a Toyota Camry.....

How many teenagers die in car accidents? How many from texting while driving?

Raise the driving age and the age to possess a cell phone to 21.

But the problem isn't the cell phone, it's the not concentrating while driving.

The UK has a driving fatality rate nearly 1/4 of the US rate, similar to the difference between murder rates of the two countries.

The UK actually deals with the problems, the US doesn't bother.

No.....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rates have gone down. Britain banned and confiscted guns and their crime rates are going up.....

The U.S.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I know this might seem hard for you to understand, but crime rates go up and down all the time.

Not to mention, percentages are weighted when it comes to gun crime rates in Britain because when the original stat that is being used to compare to new ones is very low, then it is going to skew the numbers.

If Britain had 5 mass shootings in 2016, and then had 10 in 2017 you are talking about a 100% increase, but if you have 50 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2016 and then have 55 in 2017, the same increase of 5 more, you end up with only 10% increase, which is half of Britain's, despite them both increasing by the same amount. So are you still going to argue that the 20% increase is larger?

Now...as mass public shootings go....can you explain which British gun control law stopped this guy, with a gun, from murdering all of these children?

Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.

 

[2aguy]

Illegal street racing is a problem in some cities......you get these young people in suped up cars racing down actual public streets, inspired by movies like "The Fast and Furious."

In order to keep people safe, we need to make sure that street racing cars, like the Toyota Camry, are banned for civilians...no one needs a street racing car like a Toyota Camry.....

How many teenagers die in car accidents? How many from texting while driving?

Raise the driving age and the age to possess a cell phone to 21.

But the problem isn't the cell phone, it's the not concentrating while driving.

The UK has a driving fatality rate nearly 1/4 of the US rate, similar to the difference between murder rates of the two countries.

The UK actually deals with the problems, the US doesn't bother.

No.....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rates have gone down. Britain banned and confiscted guns and their crime rates are going up.....

The U.S.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain...

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

I know this might seem hard for you to understand, but crime rates go up and down all the time.

Not to mention, percentages are weighted when it comes to gun crime rates in Britain because when the original stat that is being used to compare to new ones is very low, then it is going to skew the numbers.

If Britain had 5 mass shootings in 2016, and then had 6 in 2017 you are talking about a 20% increase, but if you have 50 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2016 and then have 55 in 2017, the same increase of 5 more, you end up with only 10% increase, which is half of Britain's, despite them both increasing by the same amount. So are you still going to argue that the 20% increase is larger?

Yes they do.

What might be hard for you to figure out is that crime rates went up and down in the UK too.

Look familiar? Yeah, it's the UK's crime.

Crime has gone down in the 21st Century because there's more entertainment that is easily accessible. Instead of having to go beat up some old bastard, you can shoot a hundred people in five minutes on Call of Duty.

The thing is the UK crime rate rose and fell from a low level, the US's crime rate rose and fell from a high level and is STILL 4 time HIGHER than the UK's crime rate.

You're talking about increases in shootings. Why? This doesn't mean much to people.

The UK has a low rate of shootings. If the shootings double in a year, the UK still has a rate much, much lower than the US's rate.

3/4 of all murders in the US are committed with guns. In the UK it's almost nothing. That's not to say it doesn't happen.

But to try and cherry pick statistics with just increase in "mass shootings", there were mass shootings in the UK in 2016?

You say five, I can't find five. You might be right, but then this would be the equivalent of a small state in the US.

The gun crime rate in Britain is going up.....as the statistics show...our gun crime rate is going down...

Before they took guns away from the British their gun crime rate was extremely low...because of their culture and their values.....after they banned guns, their culture and values have changed and their gun crime rates have gone up...

It has nothing to do with taking guns away from law abiding gun owners, and everything to do with the violent culture of their young males raised by teenage girls, and the violent nature of the immigrants of 3rd world countries now in Britain.