Should the gop be willing to shut down nonessential govt functions to stop obamacare?

[Darkwind]

And yet not of them say that. They all say they want to keep the popular parts, but want to ditch unpopular parts. What they're not mature enough to realize is that the unpopular parts are necessary to make the popular parts work. They're like a person who wants a toned body, but doesn't want to exercise and maintain a healthy diet.

What? You mean pass legislation to address specific problems?

Congress? They do that?

Oh, wait.........

The problem is that "addressing specific problems" in the way some of the right are proposing will create much larger problems.

No, its how you address specific problems without destroying budgetary considerations.

The day of 'comprehensive' is coming to a close. Comprehensive is code for 'spend like drunken sailors and create more problems.'

Targeted legislation allows for precise analysis of costs and exacting standards for spending.

Something that people who want power are opposed to.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The world doesn't exist in a 'right and wrong' paradigm. That's fantasy.

The world, especially the political world, exists in a model of perception.

Does the House have the ability to force the Stuttering Clusterfuck to shut down the government?

Yes.

Would it be right and proper for them to do it?

Yes.

Would the DISGUSTING FILTH in the LSM crucify them for it?

Yes, yes, and HELL YES!!

Between the Stuttering Clusterfuck having a Bully Pulpit and the DISGUSTING FILTH in the LSM lying like the scumbags they are.... We get killed.

It is sheer stupidity to want to commit suicide in order to satisfy some childish notion of right and wrong.

Remember something -- The winner is ALWAYS right. Always.

Always.

We need to WIN, not to make stupid and self-destructive 'statements'

Winning is right.

Losing is wrong.

dimocraps figured this out centuries ago. It's time we did too.

It's too bad that right and wrong have become foreign concepts in the political world, but they have.

You can thank dimocrap scum for that

So the alternative is to do what? Let them ( dems and Obama ) have everything they want? That is the road on which the GOP establishment chooses to travel now.
Win? What is winning? What are we supposed to win?
Look, I am sick of these limp wristed old farts and easily led younger republicans worrying only about getting reelected and nothing else.
That's what creates politicians. The nation has had it with politicians. The country needs statesmen. People who are willing to do the right thing when no one is looking. People who are willing to make tough choices even if it puts their political career in jeopardy.
People who are willing to put the country ahead of their self interests.

 

[Darkwind]

I say shut the entire thing down, and do a reboot.

It would be better if the public just threw them all out and rebooted that way. But yeah, if the Democrats want to shut down the government....well, it would save us money toward that debt ceiling thing...

And pass a REAL budget instead of this Continuing resolution cop out that BOTH parties are guilty of. BOTH are shirking their duty...and DESERVE to be thrown out.

I'm sick of BOTH of them.

Exactly.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes or no and what do you believe the ramifications would be? And I don't mean lost elections. Individual political seats are not more important than the health (not medical) of our nation as a whole.
The dems screamed the sky was falling when the thought of sequester wasmentioned. Reality showed different.

Im sick of the gop being forced to "go along" just to keep the gun away from their heads. This is a bipartisan mess overall and im sick of the dems getting a free pass. If the govt shuts down it will be because BOTH sides refused to compromise. BOTH

Congress is there to fulfill the will of the people not FUCKING KING OBAMA.

I say fuck these stupid games and play hardball. Sadly I don't think Boehner has the spine required to do what's right.

Look.. Obama wants a single payer!
Single payer means $100 billion a year in lost tax revenue to Federal/state/local governments!
THAT cost has NEVER been mentioned as well as the 400,000 people that will be put out of work!

HEALTH INSURANCE companies do ONE THING!
THEY pay the claims submitted to them. 80% of every dollar in premium goes out in claims!
That is where the solution can be made when EVERYONE understands that $850 billion a year is paid out in claims that according to
the experts, i.e. Doctors UNNECESSARILY! WASTED! $850 billion called defensive medicine where physicians are so fearful of
being sued they order duplicate tests, etc. YET almost to a person on this board people translate everything else BUT don't grasp
this gigantic elephant in the room! Drs. tell us they do this so why are we so stupid not to attack THAT Problem?

Then the other major stupid idiocy about this whole discussion is WHY did ACA come about?? "Millions of uninsured"???
YES that was the primary reason! YET as I've endlessly proved over and over again THERE ARE ONLY 4 million!
18 million don't need but could afford insurance.
14 million that were counted as uninsured are too lazy to go to Medicaid and register!
10 million are NOT citizens!
THAT leaves 4 million! 4 MILLION! So we're destroying the entire health system for 4 million???
Why Grampa aren't you pissed that lawyers making over $270 billion most of it from health care lawsuits weren't taxed like tanning salons in the ACA bill?
10% or $27 billion would PAY THE PREMIUM for the entire 4 million that want and need health insurance!
THAT's it! Simple solution that as the $850 billion wasted duplicate spending declines the 10% tax would also decline!
I absolutely guarantee that between stopping hospitals from overcharging sometimes 6,000% to recoup uninsured and cutting the $850 billion, easily $200 billion a year in cost reductions!
Cost reductions means LOWER PREMIUMS because most people don't seem to know that states' regulators HAVE to approve premiums!
And when companies claims decline from the average of 80% of premiums.. BAM! Lower premiums! THAT's the way to make insurance less
expensive! IT WILL work!

You missed the part about skimming policies to pay for CEO's salaries.

Aetna CEO's Pay More Than Tripled Last Year - Hartford Courant

Bertolini was compensated a total of $36.36 million last year, not including $11.1 million in stock awards which vest later and are based on the company's performance.

--------------------------------------------------

Do these right wingers understand how many policies it takes to skim a 50 million dollar salary. Obamacare makes insurance companies spend at least 80% on their patients. To teanutty fruitcakes, that sounds like a "bad thing".

Normally I dismiss your post as so much drivel.
You are correct....However, the difference is dummy, the taxpayers don't fund Aetna.
That is a private sector firm owned by stockholders in the company.
Nice try at deflection, though.

 

[Polk]

The Senate CANNOT pass a funding bill. Or did you sleep through that part of the Constitution?

The real truth here is that the Democrats have repeatedly failed to work with the GOP over the past 4 years. A lot of the problems we face with regard to budgetary issues could very well have been solved if the Democrats followed the law.

When you play tennis, you don't get to let the returned ball sail past you and then claim that your opponent did not hit the ball in the manner you like and then claim the point.

You play the return and go whine to your wife or cry in your beer or whatever, later.

Perhaps you should read the Constitution more closely. Revenue bills (aka, bills that raise money) must begin in the House. The bills to actually spend the money are not revenue bills. Even that's a mere formality, since the Senate can propose amendments, meaning they can strip the meat out of any bill that passes the House and just insert revenue measures inside of it.

The Senate CANNOT pass a funding bill. Or did you sleep through that part of the Constitution

?

IDIOT. He made mention of it.

You realize there is a difference between raising money and spending money, right?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I've read that just as the phony "repeal" votes have been a very expensive lie, "defunding" is also impossible and therefore, another Repub lie.

Why don't rw's demand their politicians stop throwing away TAX PAYER'S money on these phoney votes?

Because, fox didn't tell them to.

 

[Polk]

Perhaps you should read the Constitution more closely. Revenue bills (aka, bills that raise money) must begin in the House. The bills to actually spend the money are not revenue bills. Even that's a mere formality, since the Senate can propose amendments, meaning they can strip the meat out of any bill that passes the House and just insert revenue measures inside of it.

The Senate CANNOT pass a funding bill. Or did you sleep through that part of the Constitution

?

IDIOT. He made mention of it.

They don't read very well. They have their points and they stick to them regardless of what is said.

The word "funding" has two meanings: raising revenue and appropriating money. Since we're talking about a continuing resolution, I thought you used the meaning that would be relevant to that process (appropriating money).

 

[thereisnospoon]

I've read that just as the phony "repeal" votes have been a very expensive lie, "defunding" is also impossible and therefore, another Repub lie.

Why don't rw's demand their politicians stop throwing away TAX PAYER'S money on these phoney votes?

Because, fox didn't tell them to.

Explain in what manner defunding is 'impossible'.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The GOP needs to get their heads out of their asses and stop acting like a bunch of 3 years throwing a pissy fit because they didn't get their way (even though the individual mandate was a republican plan to begin with)

The affordable care act is the law of the land, deal with it.

Laws are not written in stone. Who told you they were?

True. And the "it's the law of the land" argument is kinda stupid for that reason, but it does contain a morsel of truth. Namely, that when you've had two consecutive presidential elections fought on the same topic and the same side of the question won both times, it's properly worth considering that it's the popular will.

You did not answer the question.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I just don't understand the entire 'shut down government' meme being perpetrated by both sides.

The House simply needs to craft a budget that funds the government but leaves off any monetary stipends for Obamacare.

Then send it to the Senate for ratification.

If it fails, then it is the Senate (aka, Democrats) who have failed (yet again) to fund the government.

The House does that very thing every year and Harry Reid ignores it and blames the Republicans in the Senate. And gets away with it every year.

Reid ignores it because the Republicans cram the calendar full of fillibusters on everything that moves.

115 filibusters were filed. 37 invoked. More than half were withdrawn.
This is out of 3715 bills presented in the US Senate.
List of Bills Introduced - 112th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Crammed full of filibusters?
A word to the wise. When you post, make sure you have your facts lined up before hand.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Won't matter if they do or they don't.

Eventually the fiat US dollar will collapse, and the federal Government will go with it.

It will be a long and bloody struggle to reestablish a new national government, because many international and foreign forces, both political/economic and militant will attempt to seize the United States through deception and manipulation during that tumultuous time period.

 

[eagle1462010]

The people do not want Obamacare. Hell the Unions are turning on the Dems over the issue. Their Rock Solid Base is ticked off as their people get hurt because of the law.

The House has the Power of the Purse. It is the PEOPLE'S HOUSE. The Founding Fathers did this for a reason. To use it as a Weapon when the Gov't gets out of control or NO LONGER HEARS THE VOICES OF THE PEOPLE.

Use the weapon, and SHUT IT DOWN. No surrender, and no retreat.

 

[rightwinger]

The House does that very thing every year and Harry Reid ignores it and blames the Republicans in the Senate. And gets away with it every year.

Reid ignores it because the Republicans cram the calendar full of fillibusters on everything that moves.

115 filibusters were filed. 37 invoked. More than half were withdrawn.
This is out of 3715 bills presented in the US Senate.
List of Bills Introduced - 112th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Crammed full of filibusters?
A word to the wise. When you post, make sure you have your facts lined up before hand.

Congress has made it so convenient that you don't even have to actually filibuster anymore. Without 60 votes, bills just languish

Republican view of America with a Do-nothing Congress

 

[rightwinger]

Won't matter if they do or they don't.

Eventually the fiat US dollar will collapse, and the federal Government will go with it.

It will be a long and bloody struggle to reestablish a new national government, because many international and foreign forces, both political/economic and militant will attempt to seize the United States through deception and manipulation during that tumultuous time period.

Ma!

Where did you leave my tin foil hat? Some guy on the internet is talking about Civil War and I want to be ready

 

[Seawytch]

Reid ignores it because the Republicans cram the calendar full of fillibusters on everything that moves.

115 filibusters were filed. 37 invoked. More than half were withdrawn.
This is out of 3715 bills presented in the US Senate.
List of Bills Introduced - 112th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Crammed full of filibusters?
A word to the wise. When you post, make sure you have your facts lined up before hand.

Congress has made it so convenient that you don't even have to actually filibuster anymore. Without 60 votes, bills just languish

Republican view of America with a Do-nothing Congress

Bingo!

 

[Toro]

No.

 

[Darkwind]

Perhaps you should read the Constitution more closely. Revenue bills (aka, bills that raise money) must begin in the House. The bills to actually spend the money are not revenue bills. Even that's a mere formality, since the Senate can propose amendments, meaning they can strip the meat out of any bill that passes the House and just insert revenue measures inside of it.

The Senate CANNOT pass a funding bill. Or did you sleep through that part of the Constitution

?

IDIOT. He made mention of it.

You realize there is a difference between raising money and spending money, right?

That is correct. Funding is the spending. Revenue is the confiscation of monies.

The HOUSE is the only agency that can legislate spending. Period.

Since the discussion is about Spending, that is where I will continue to focus.

The HOUSE is controlled by the GOP. This means that the Senate must play ball with the HOUSE to spend any money... This means that when the HOUSE sends a bill to the Senate that funds (spends money) the Government, the Senate will then have to work with them to get this spending (funds) passed so that government can function.

Since the Senate (Democrats) have not worked with the HOUSE (GOP) and in fact, have stated that any funding (spending) is dead on arrival, that means that the Senate has closed down the government.

It does NOT get any more clear than that.

 

[bendog]

?

IDIOT. He made mention of it.

You realize there is a difference between raising money and spending money, right?

That is correct. Funding is the spending. Revenue is the confiscation of monies.

The HOUSE is the only agency that can legislate spending. Period.

Since the discussion is about Spending, that is where I will continue to focus.

The HOUSE is controlled by the GOP. This means that the Senate must play ball with the HOUSE to spend any money... This means that when the HOUSE sends a bill to the Senate that funds (spends money) the Government, the Senate will then have to work with them to get this spending (funds) passed so that government can function.

Since the Senate (Democrats) have not worked with the HOUSE (GOP) and in fact, have stated that any funding (spending) is dead on arrival, that means that the Senate has closed down the government.

It does NOT get any more clear than that.

Clear as mud. But, don't expect rational people to agree with you.

 

[Darkwind]

You realize there is a difference between raising money and spending money, right?

That is correct. Funding is the spending. Revenue is the confiscation of monies.

The HOUSE is the only agency that can legislate spending. Period.

Since the discussion is about Spending, that is where I will continue to focus.

The HOUSE is controlled by the GOP. This means that the Senate must play ball with the HOUSE to spend any money... This means that when the HOUSE sends a bill to the Senate that funds (spends money) the Government, the Senate will then have to work with them to get this spending (funds) passed so that government can function.

Since the Senate (Democrats) have not worked with the HOUSE (GOP) and in fact, have stated that any funding (spending) is dead on arrival, that means that the Senate has closed down the government.

It does NOT get any more clear than that.

Clear as mud. But, don't expect rational people to agree with you.

Rational people DO agree with Me. Liberals and progressives however..........

 

[Redfish]

Increased local cost of services can increase premiums, but it doesn't change the fact that insurers would flock to the less restrictive jurisdictions.

this really isn't difficult or complicated. Change the law and allow medical insurers to compete in all states, with the provision that they MUST compete in all states and all locations.

Insurance is all about spreading the risk and sharing the cost. I would suggest an insurance 101 class for you.