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His point is the US lied to get themselves in a war with Vietnam. Ever hear of a False Flag Operation.[Indeed,they were never trying to win it,they had their hands tied.The domino theory was right and we should have gone in and won the war. However, it would have been better to have stayed out of it than to do it the way we did
Yep. I come from a military family and military community. One family friend was a pilot. He would fly over factories making weapons to kill Americans and if he had fired one shot at them would have been court marshaled, it killed him to not be able to do that.
Johnson turned the war into his economic policy
It was a civil war gotten into with the phony gulf of tonkin "incident", fast forward: over 58,000 Americans used for cannon fodder, hundreds of thousands Vietnamese dead. Now we have diplomatic relations , have trade and are going to have joint military exercises
The Gulf of Tonkin incident (Vietnamese: Sự kiện Vịnh Bắc Bộ), also known as the USS Maddox incident, involved what were originally claimed to be two separate confrontations involving North Vietnam and the United States in the waters of the Gulf of Tonkin. The original American report blamed North Vietnam for both incidents, but eventually became very controversial with widespread claims that either one or both incidents were false, and possibly purposefully so. On August 2, 1964, the destroyer USS Maddox, while performing a signals intelligence patrol as part of DESOTO operations, was pursued by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats of the 135th Torpedo Squadron.[1][2] The Maddox fired 3 warning shots and the North Vietnamese boats then attacked with torpedoes and machine gun fire.[2] The Maddox expended over 280 3-inch and 5-inch shells in what was claimed to be a sea battle. One US aircraft was damaged, three North Vietnamese torpedo boats were allegedly damaged, and four North Vietnamese sailors were said to have been killed, with six more wounded. There were no U.S. casualties.[3] The Maddox "was unscathed except for a single bullet hole from a Vietnamese machine gun round."[2]
It was originally claimed by the National Security Agency that a Second Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred on August 4, 1964, as another sea battle, but instead evidence was found of "Tonkin ghosts"[4] (false radar images) and not actual North Vietnamese torpedo boats. In the 2003 documentary The Fog of War, the former United States Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara admitted that the August 2 USS Maddox attack happened with no Defense Department response, but the August 4 Gulf of Tonkin attack never happened.[5]
The outcome of these two incidents was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by "communist aggression". The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying US conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.
In 1995, former Secretary of Defense McNamara met with former Vietnam People's Army General Võ Nguyên Giáp to ask what happened on 4 August 1964 in the second Gulf of Tonkin Incident. "Absolutely nothing", Giáp replied.[6] Giáp claimed that the attack had been imaginary.[7]
In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it concluded that Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese Navy on August 2, but that there were no North Vietnamese naval vessels present during the incident of August 4. The report stated regarding the first incident on August 2 that "at 1500G,[note 1] Captain Herrick ordered Ogier's gun crews to open fire if the boats approached within ten thousand yards. At about 1505G,[note 1] the Maddox fired three rounds to warn off the communist boats. This initial action was never reported by the Johnson administration, which insisted that the Vietnamese boats fired first
Gulf of Tonkin incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No idea what your point is
See # 17
42 FALSE-FLAG ATTACKS OFFICIALY ADMITTED TO | WHAT REALLY HAPPENED
[Indeed,they were never trying to win it,they had their hands tied.The domino theory was right and we should have gone in and won the war. However, it would have been better to have stayed out of it than to do it the way we did
Yep. I come from a military family and military community. One family friend was a pilot. He would fly over factories making weapons to kill Americans and if he had fired one shot at them would have been court marshaled, it killed him to not be able to do that.
Johnson turned the war into his economic policy
It was a civil war gotten into with the phony gulf of tonkin "incident", fast forward: over 58,000 Americans used for cannon fodder, hundreds of thousands Vietnamese dead. Now we have diplomatic relations , have trade and are going to have joint military exercises
The Gulf of Tonkin incident (Vietnamese: Sự kiện Vịnh Bắc Bộ), also known as the USS Maddox incident, involved what were originally claimed to be two separate confrontations involving North Vietnam and the United States in the waters of the Gulf of Tonkin. The original American report blamed North Vietnam for both incidents, but eventually became very controversial with widespread claims that either one or both incidents were false, and possibly purposefully so. On August 2, 1964, the destroyer USS Maddox, while performing a signals intelligence patrol as part of DESOTO operations, was pursued by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats of the 135th Torpedo Squadron.[1][2] The Maddox fired 3 warning shots and the North Vietnamese boats then attacked with torpedoes and machine gun fire.[2] The Maddox expended over 280 3-inch and 5-inch shells in what was claimed to be a sea battle. One US aircraft was damaged, three North Vietnamese torpedo boats were allegedly damaged, and four North Vietnamese sailors were said to have been killed, with six more wounded. There were no U.S. casualties.[3] The Maddox "was unscathed except for a single bullet hole from a Vietnamese machine gun round."[2]
It was originally claimed by the National Security Agency that a Second Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred on August 4, 1964, as another sea battle, but instead evidence was found of "Tonkin ghosts"[4] (false radar images) and not actual North Vietnamese torpedo boats. In the 2003 documentary The Fog of War, the former United States Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara admitted that the August 2 USS Maddox attack happened with no Defense Department response, but the August 4 Gulf of Tonkin attack never happened.[5]
The outcome of these two incidents was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by "communist aggression". The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying US conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.
In 1995, former Secretary of Defense McNamara met with former Vietnam People's Army General Võ Nguyên Giáp to ask what happened on 4 August 1964 in the second Gulf of Tonkin Incident. "Absolutely nothing", Giáp replied.[6] Giáp claimed that the attack had been imaginary.[7]
In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it concluded that Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese Navy on August 2, but that there were no North Vietnamese naval vessels present during the incident of August 4. The report stated regarding the first incident on August 2 that "at 1500G,[note 1] Captain Herrick ordered Ogier's gun crews to open fire if the boats approached within ten thousand yards. At about 1505G,[note 1] the Maddox fired three rounds to warn off the communist boats. This initial action was never reported by the Johnson administration, which insisted that the Vietnamese boats fired first
Gulf of Tonkin incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No idea what your point is
Is that what we should have done? Allowed the commies to spread around the world and overrun our allies?
Yep. It was none of our god damn business oh and if you hadn't realized we lost 58,000 American soldiers and we STILL LOST THE FUCKING WAR! Funny how they had no problem dropping a nuke on Japan but not one on Vietnam.Is that what we should have done? Allowed the commies to spread around the world and overrun our allies?
Just in case you want to know what truly offended the left in this country.
Let us know what we should have done. Let us hear your plan. Not defend our allies like we did with South Korea (make no mistake, the left still think we were wrong for defending South Korea from the COMMUNISTS.)?
I say it is not that we defended the South Vietnam from the scumbag murdering communists. It is that we conducted the war from a political angle. We allowed the scumbags here to dictate foreign policy that eventually led to the killing fields and slaughter of millions. That, was what was immoral.
To me.
Lets hear it left wingers. Should America have not got involved at all and allowed the vietcong to just take over and murder our allies? Should we have allowed the spread of communism with out ANY sort of defense of any of our allies?
Go ahead and please explain it. Behold the double talk everyone.
Is that what we should have done? Allowed the commies to spread around the world and overrun our allies?
One has to ask if the American defeat in Vietnam allowed communism to spread around the world.
Given that country is still communist and the US is now arming it, one has to question all the reasons the US invaded.
Who did the US "invade?"Is that what we should have done? Allowed the commies to spread around the world and overrun our allies?
One has to ask if the American defeat in Vietnam allowed communism to spread around the world.
Given that country is still communist and the US is now arming it, one has to question all the reasons the US invaded.
Who did the US "invade?"
I hate fucking "liberals."
I just fucking hate them.
Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, and every other country in the region wouldn't have been able to stand against Mao.
Who did the US "invade?"
I hate fucking "liberals."
I just fucking hate them.
Either Vietnam is in Florida, maybe California, or you sent troops half way around the world to invade a foreign land.
Do you have a map handy?
As for liberals, I'm a Thatcherite so I'm not all that keen either.
South Vietnam had superior weapons to the NorthIs that what we should have done? Allowed the commies to spread around the world and overrun our allies?
One has to ask if the American defeat in Vietnam allowed communism to spread around the world.
Given that country is still communist and the US is now arming it, one has to question all the reasons the US invaded.
the problem with this line of reasoning is that it's wrong. America wasn't defeated in Viet Nam; its forces left in 1973, and the south didn't fall until the American Congress stabbed them in the back and cut off all funding for them, while the Soviets and Chinese kept the North Vietnamese in the field. If the SEATO alliance hadn't been propped up with force, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, and every other country in the region wouldn't have been able to stand against Mao.
South Vietnam had superior weapons to the North
They just lacked the will to fight
LBJ never gave a damn about Vietnam.
But he was not going to let it fall to the Communists on his watch. His advisors told him that if he would just send in 100,000 more boys we would be home by Christmas. Then another 100,000 and another and another
We ended up with 60,000 dead for no reason
As usual, you don't have a fucking clue. It was because of LBJ that they went in to Vietnam in the first place.
I'm going to make this short.
The French were in Indochina for economic reasons, tea and latex from rubber trees. They united a number of warring ethnic factions.
As usual, at the end of WWII, politicians with absolutely not idea of the realities of the region, came to agreements that would eventually lead to turmoil.
Ho Chi Mihn actually tried to get the western allies to allow him to fight for them against the emerging Chinese Communists who he felt would try to take over the whole region.
Rubber was considered a vital product for industrialization and was exactly why we became involved even though Ike strongly advised against it. Once the French got their butts kicked (as usual), the USA stepped in to fill the void and stop the commies - which Ho Chi Mihn ended up turning to in order to save the integrity of the country he wanted independent of foreign rule.
The US politicians never allowed the military to actually win the war. As they do today in Afghanistan and did in Iraq, they constantly put obstacles in the way of winning the conflict. Refusal to cut off supplies along the Ho Chi Mihn Trail and - just like in Korea - restrictions on activities north of the DMZ.
Ironically, it was the billions in weaponry we left behind that allowed Vietnam to fight off incursions from China and to protect its borders from Cambodia.
So, instead of spouting off without the slightest idea of what you're talking about, take the time to READ the history of the entire area!
I know exactly what I am talking about. The oligarchs that control this world allowed China to turn communist and they funded the communists in Russia as well. All wars are banker wars...period. It's not fucking complicated at all and it's very depressing when you come to the realization that there is too much power and wealth in too few hands controlling the fates of billions but that is the reality we live in. BTW, I don't trust one fucking thing I was taught in school when it comes to our history because I have found it to be utter bullshit from beginning to end.
It must be tough to live in a world filled with so many conspiracies. Do you check under your bed every night before climbing into it? And run an electronic check for bugs?
It must be tough to believe even half of the shit that shoveled to you by the lamestream media and the public school system. Operation Gladio....look it up. It's been declassified. Just curious, what exactly did I post that has put such a bug up your ass? I usually give your postings high ratings because I agree with a lot of stuff you post. I study this shit every day and I have a very good grasp on what is going on, what has gone on and where we are heading and it ain't good unless people wake up to it.
LBJ never gave a damn about Vietnam.
But he was not going to let it fall to the Communists on his watch. His advisors told him that if he would just send in 100,000 more boys we would be home by Christmas. Then another 100,000 and another and another
We ended up with 60,000 dead for no reason
As usual, you don't have a fucking clue. It was because of LBJ that they went in to Vietnam in the first place.
No it wasn't. The first military advisors went in under Eisenhower, JFK increased involvement.
LBJ never gave a damn about Vietnam.
But he was not going to let it fall to the Communists on his watch. His advisors told him that if he would just send in 100,000 more boys we would be home by Christmas. Then another 100,000 and another and another
We ended up with 60,000 dead for no reason
As usual, you don't have a fucking clue. It was because of LBJ that they went in to Vietnam in the first place.
No it wasn't. The first military advisors went in under Eisenhower, JFK increased involvement.
"they" meant combat troops, I mean duh
LBJ never gave a damn about Vietnam.
But he was not going to let it fall to the Communists on his watch. His advisors told him that if he would just send in 100,000 more boys we would be home by Christmas. Then another 100,000 and another and another
We ended up with 60,000 dead for no reason
As usual, you don't have a fucking clue. It was because of LBJ that they went in to Vietnam in the first place.
No it wasn't. The first military advisors went in under Eisenhower, JFK increased involvement.
"they" meant combat troops, I mean duh
Kennedy increased the number of advisors from 700 to 15,000 before being shot in Dallas. To say there were no combat troops in Viet Nam before LBJ ramped up US involvement in the war after the Gulf in Tonkin, is to be wilfully blind. Most people weren't aware of US involvement, but the US was heavily involved and committed under Kennedy.
Nick Rowe and Rocky Versace were advisors captured in 1963 while participating in combat missions as "advisors" in 1963. The names on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall begin with 1959. If someone is referring to ground combat units instead of advisors they should distinguish the point. Otherwise, it is an insult to those who served before that period. They were certainly involved in ground combat roles.LBJ never gave a damn about Vietnam.
But he was not going to let it fall to the Communists on his watch. His advisors told him that if he would just send in 100,000 more boys we would be home by Christmas. Then another 100,000 and another and another
We ended up with 60,000 dead for no reason
As usual, you don't have a fucking clue. It was because of LBJ that they went in to Vietnam in the first place.
No it wasn't. The first military advisors went in under Eisenhower, JFK increased involvement.
"they" meant combat troops, I mean duh
Kennedy increased the number of advisors from 700 to 15,000 before being shot in Dallas. To say there were no combat troops in Viet Nam before LBJ ramped up US involvement in the war after the Gulf in Tonkin, is to be wilfully blind. Most people weren't aware of US involvement, but the US was heavily involved and committed under Kennedy.
Kennedy sent advisers and trainers, not combat troops. And you're word parsing for no apparent point
Nick Rowe and Rocky Versace were advisors captured in 1963 while participating in combat missions as "advisors" in 1963. The names on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall begin with 1959. If someone is referring to ground combat units instead of advisors they should distinguish the point. Otherwise, it is an insult to those who served before that period. They were certainly involved in ground combat roles.As usual, you don't have a fucking clue. It was because of LBJ that they went in to Vietnam in the first place.
No it wasn't. The first military advisors went in under Eisenhower, JFK increased involvement.
"they" meant combat troops, I mean duh
Kennedy increased the number of advisors from 700 to 15,000 before being shot in Dallas. To say there were no combat troops in Viet Nam before LBJ ramped up US involvement in the war after the Gulf in Tonkin, is to be wilfully blind. Most people weren't aware of US involvement, but the US was heavily involved and committed under Kennedy.
Kennedy sent advisers and trainers, not combat troops. And you're word parsing for no apparent point
I did not say you were spitting on Special Forces and other advisors who were fulfilling combat roles. I said it was an insult to imply that no combat forces were in Vietnam prior to full combat units arriving under Johnson.Nick Rowe and Rocky Versace were advisors captured in 1963 while participating in combat missions as "advisors" in 1963. The names on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall begin with 1959. If someone is referring to ground combat units instead of advisors they should distinguish the point. Otherwise, it is an insult to those who served before that period. They were certainly involved in ground combat roles.No it wasn't. The first military advisors went in under Eisenhower, JFK increased involvement.
"they" meant combat troops, I mean duh
Kennedy increased the number of advisors from 700 to 15,000 before being shot in Dallas. To say there were no combat troops in Viet Nam before LBJ ramped up US involvement in the war after the Gulf in Tonkin, is to be wilfully blind. Most people weren't aware of US involvement, but the US was heavily involved and committed under Kennedy.
Kennedy sent advisers and trainers, not combat troops. And you're word parsing for no apparent point
Yes, by saying we didn't send combat troops until Johnson, I was obviously spitting on the grave and dishonoring anyone who died before that.
What a fucking moron you are, fuck you and the fart that blew you in
