Separation of Church and State

[Blakcat51]

I rely on snopes.com myself....

 

[Wolfmann]

The first part of this provision is known as the Establishment Clause, and the second part is known as the Free Exercise Clause. Although the First Amendment only refers to Congress, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that the Fourteenth Amendment makes the Free Exercise and Establishment Clauses also binding on states
The Supreme Court has interpreted religion to mean a sincere and meaningful belief that occupies in the life of its possessor a place parallel to the place held by God in the lives of other persons. The religion or religious concept need not include belief in the existence of God or a supreme being to be within the scope of the First Amendment.

AMEN To that

 

[Wolfmann]

From David Barton's American Heritage Series (2011)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, correspondence

This is one subject that we as Americans need to come to terms with. I ask that you research a bit yourself before posting a reply. This is who were are as Americans. Also, I would ask whether you'd allow anyone to misquote a statement from your personal communications.

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, both signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote to each other concerning the phrasing and implications of the First Amendment. During their correspondence, Jefferson wrote Rush a response which included, "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." The letter goes on to calm Rush and others. This phrase was taken out of context and continues to the present.

This private correspondence clarifies to Rush and other that the intent of the First Amendment was that government will generate no legislation affecting the establishment of a national religion, or prohibit religious pursuit of the individual. Neither attempts to affect the operation of the other, simply put.

Our elected officials are protecting every other religion, but do nothing to protect basic Christian principles that most will agree is the basis of our separation from England. However, if a major incident occurs (ie, the incident in Colorado), our elected officials are amongst the first to use Christian religion to make themselves look good.

Because we hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, "that religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence." The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right. It is unalienable, because the opinions of men, depending only on the evidence contemplated by their own minds cannot follow the dictates of other men: It is unalienable also, because what is here a right towards men, is a duty towards the Creator. It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considerd as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governour of the Universe: And if a member of Civil Society, do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign. We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no man's right is abridged by the institution of Civil Society and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance. True it is, that no other rule exists, by which any question which may divide a Society, can be ultimately determined, but the will of the majority; but it is also true that the majority may trespass on the rights of the minority. -James Madison

Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

Contrary to whatever the Conser Religous people think the founding fathers wanted church and state to be separate because of the horrible abuses they say in thier time by the Church of England in America and its power over the government in England. To say this is a christian country is to deny and slander the preamble of the Constititution WE THE PEOPLE not WE THE CHRISTIAN PEOPLE. The government was established as a government of all people. The 14th amendment supports this position.

Also if this country WAS a founded as Christian then it should be based on the Bible YES. Please show me anywhere in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Supreme Court decisions, law regulations, etc were a verse from the Bible is used for justification or as a base for the decision. Or where the Commandments were cited as such. Freedom of Religion also means freedom from it. I am a person of faith but do not believe in or belong to organized religion does that in your small mind mean that the religion police are going to break into my home and deport me or anyone else that does think like you? this is a democracy not a secular autocracy. Get over it.

 

[sealybobo]

From David Barton's American Heritage Series (2011)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, correspondence

This is one subject that we as Americans need to come to terms with. I ask that you research a bit yourself before posting a reply. This is who were are as Americans. Also, I would ask whether you'd allow anyone to misquote a statement from your personal communications.

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, both signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote to each other concerning the phrasing and implications of the First Amendment. During their correspondence, Jefferson wrote Rush a response which included, "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." The letter goes on to calm Rush and others. This phrase was taken out of context and continues to the present.

This private correspondence clarifies to Rush and other that the intent of the First Amendment was that government will generate no legislation affecting the establishment of a national religion, or prohibit religious pursuit of the individual. Neither attempts to affect the operation of the other, simply put.

Our elected officials are protecting every other religion, but do nothing to protect basic Christian principles that most will agree is the basis of our separation from England. However, if a major incident occurs (ie, the incident in Colorado), our elected officials are amongst the first to use Christian religion to make themselves look good.

I heard a guy at a GOP town hall asked why it was being held in a church and he got arrested. This is why we keep them separate. He didn't break any secular laws

 

[yiostheoy]

From David Barton's American Heritage Series (2011)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, correspondence

This is one subject that we as Americans need to come to terms with. I ask that you research a bit yourself before posting a reply. This is who were are as Americans. Also, I would ask whether you'd allow anyone to misquote a statement from your personal communications.

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, both signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote to each other concerning the phrasing and implications of the First Amendment. During their correspondence, Jefferson wrote Rush a response which included, "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." The letter goes on to calm Rush and others. This phrase was taken out of context and continues to the present.

This private correspondence clarifies to Rush and other that the intent of the First Amendment was that government will generate no legislation affecting the establishment of a national religion, or prohibit religious pursuit of the individual. Neither attempts to affect the operation of the other, simply put.

Our elected officials are protecting every other religion, but do nothing to protect basic Christian principles that most will agree is the basis of our separation from England. However, if a major incident occurs (ie, the incident in Colorado), our elected officials are amongst the first to use Christian religion to make themselves look good.

Looks like a really old tired dead thread.

This O/P would need to find and list and link some specific examples of what he/she fears in their final statement.

As is it is just a hollow empty personal paranoid opinion.

 

[yiostheoy]

From David Barton's American Heritage Series (2011)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, correspondence

This is one subject that we as Americans need to come to terms with. I ask that you research a bit yourself before posting a reply. This is who were are as Americans. Also, I would ask whether you'd allow anyone to misquote a statement from your personal communications.

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, both signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote to each other concerning the phrasing and implications of the First Amendment. During their correspondence, Jefferson wrote Rush a response which included, "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." The letter goes on to calm Rush and others. This phrase was taken out of context and continues to the present.

This private correspondence clarifies to Rush and other that the intent of the First Amendment was that government will generate no legislation affecting the establishment of a national religion, or prohibit religious pursuit of the individual. Neither attempts to affect the operation of the other, simply put.

Our elected officials are protecting every other religion, but do nothing to protect basic Christian principles that most will agree is the basis of our separation from England. However, if a major incident occurs (ie, the incident in Colorado), our elected officials are amongst the first to use Christian religion to make themselves look good.

I heard a guy at a GOP town hall asked why it was being held in a church and he got arrested. This is why we keep them separate. He didn't break any secular laws

So why did you resurrect this old dead tired thread ??

It lacks any substance.

 

[sealybobo]

From David Barton's American Heritage Series (2011)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, correspondence

This is one subject that we as Americans need to come to terms with. I ask that you research a bit yourself before posting a reply. This is who were are as Americans. Also, I would ask whether you'd allow anyone to misquote a statement from your personal communications.

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, both signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote to each other concerning the phrasing and implications of the First Amendment. During their correspondence, Jefferson wrote Rush a response which included, "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." The letter goes on to calm Rush and others. This phrase was taken out of context and continues to the present.

This private correspondence clarifies to Rush and other that the intent of the First Amendment was that government will generate no legislation affecting the establishment of a national religion, or prohibit religious pursuit of the individual. Neither attempts to affect the operation of the other, simply put.

Our elected officials are protecting every other religion, but do nothing to protect basic Christian principles that most will agree is the basis of our separation from England. However, if a major incident occurs (ie, the incident in Colorado), our elected officials are amongst the first to use Christian religion to make themselves look good.

Looks like a really old tired dead thread.

This O/P would need to find and list and link some specific examples of what he/she fears in their final statement.

As is it is just a hollow empty personal paranoid opinion.

I just gave you an example. Religions don't allow you to question authority. Not democratic. Secular societies rule

 

[sealybobo]

From David Barton's American Heritage Series (2011)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, correspondence

This is one subject that we as Americans need to come to terms with. I ask that you research a bit yourself before posting a reply. This is who were are as Americans. Also, I would ask whether you'd allow anyone to misquote a statement from your personal communications.

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, both signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote to each other concerning the phrasing and implications of the First Amendment. During their correspondence, Jefferson wrote Rush a response which included, "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." The letter goes on to calm Rush and others. This phrase was taken out of context and continues to the present.

This private correspondence clarifies to Rush and other that the intent of the First Amendment was that government will generate no legislation affecting the establishment of a national religion, or prohibit religious pursuit of the individual. Neither attempts to affect the operation of the other, simply put.

Our elected officials are protecting every other religion, but do nothing to protect basic Christian principles that most will agree is the basis of our separation from England. However, if a major incident occurs (ie, the incident in Colorado), our elected officials are amongst the first to use Christian religion to make themselves look good.

I heard a guy at a GOP town hall asked why it was being held in a church and he got arrested. This is why we keep them separate. He didn't break any secular laws

So why did you resurrect this old dead tired thread ??

It lacks any substance.

Because trumps trying to give religions more power. He's using them. Now's the time to fight back. And why start a new thread?

The town hall shouldnt have been held at a church and the guy shouldn't have been arrested for offending the church. Authoritarianism

 

[yiostheoy]

From David Barton's American Heritage Series (2011)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, correspondence

This is one subject that we as Americans need to come to terms with. I ask that you research a bit yourself before posting a reply. This is who were are as Americans. Also, I would ask whether you'd allow anyone to misquote a statement from your personal communications.

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, both signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote to each other concerning the phrasing and implications of the First Amendment. During their correspondence, Jefferson wrote Rush a response which included, "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." The letter goes on to calm Rush and others. This phrase was taken out of context and continues to the present.

This private correspondence clarifies to Rush and other that the intent of the First Amendment was that government will generate no legislation affecting the establishment of a national religion, or prohibit religious pursuit of the individual. Neither attempts to affect the operation of the other, simply put.

Our elected officials are protecting every other religion, but do nothing to protect basic Christian principles that most will agree is the basis of our separation from England. However, if a major incident occurs (ie, the incident in Colorado), our elected officials are amongst the first to use Christian religion to make themselves look good.

I heard a guy at a GOP town hall asked why it was being held in a church and he got arrested. This is why we keep them separate. He didn't break any secular laws

So why did you resurrect this old dead tired thread ??

It lacks any substance.

Because trumps trying to give religions more power. He's using them. Now's the time to fight back. And why start a new thread?

The town hall shouldnt have been held at a church and the guy shouldn't have been arrested for offending the church. Authoritarianism

Trump simply reversed LBJ's executive order.

No big deal.

For openers then somebody should research and link LBJ's order, and also Trumps reversal.

Then you can start to have an intelligent discussion about it.

And you should probably start a new thread not resurrect an old tired one.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Religious people in all times and historical eras have tried to gain control of the government so they could make their religion the only valid religion. Christianity's history is rife with this marriage between their religion and the government. The founders saw the previous centuries of horrific persecution of human beings when a religion becomes the state or vice versa and figured out they needed to separate the two for the sake of both!

You can see in the US that there is a segment of the Christian religion that has a deep seeded need to make their religion the predominant religion. They constantly tag buildings with Christian symbols of graffiti like a gang of teenagers roaming the city marking their territory.

Why the f#$k can't these people just practice their religion and leave everyone else alone? The Amish aren't running round chiseling a giant 'A' into every public building. And they're happy and content.

 

[sealybobo]

From David Barton's American Heritage Series (2011)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, correspondence

This is one subject that we as Americans need to come to terms with. I ask that you research a bit yourself before posting a reply. This is who were are as Americans. Also, I would ask whether you'd allow anyone to misquote a statement from your personal communications.

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, both signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote to each other concerning the phrasing and implications of the First Amendment. During their correspondence, Jefferson wrote Rush a response which included, "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." The letter goes on to calm Rush and others. This phrase was taken out of context and continues to the present.

This private correspondence clarifies to Rush and other that the intent of the First Amendment was that government will generate no legislation affecting the establishment of a national religion, or prohibit religious pursuit of the individual. Neither attempts to affect the operation of the other, simply put.

Our elected officials are protecting every other religion, but do nothing to protect basic Christian principles that most will agree is the basis of our separation from England. However, if a major incident occurs (ie, the incident in Colorado), our elected officials are amongst the first to use Christian religion to make themselves look good.

I heard a guy at a GOP town hall asked why it was being held in a church and he got arrested. This is why we keep them separate. He didn't break any secular laws

So why did you resurrect this old dead tired thread ??

It lacks any substance.

Because trumps trying to give religions more power. He's using them. Now's the time to fight back. And why start a new thread?

The town hall shouldnt have been held at a church and the guy shouldn't have been arrested for offending the church. Authoritarianism

 

[sealybobo]

From David Barton's American Heritage Series (2011)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, correspondence

This is one subject that we as Americans need to come to terms with. I ask that you research a bit yourself before posting a reply. This is who were are as Americans. Also, I would ask whether you'd allow anyone to misquote a statement from your personal communications.

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, both signers of the Declaration of Independence wrote to each other concerning the phrasing and implications of the First Amendment. During their correspondence, Jefferson wrote Rush a response which included, "... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." The letter goes on to calm Rush and others. This phrase was taken out of context and continues to the present.

This private correspondence clarifies to Rush and other that the intent of the First Amendment was that government will generate no legislation affecting the establishment of a national religion, or prohibit religious pursuit of the individual. Neither attempts to affect the operation of the other, simply put.

Our elected officials are protecting every other religion, but do nothing to protect basic Christian principles that most will agree is the basis of our separation from England. However, if a major incident occurs (ie, the incident in Colorado), our elected officials are amongst the first to use Christian religion to make themselves look good.

I heard a guy at a GOP town hall asked why it was being held in a church and he got arrested. This is why we keep them separate. He didn't break any secular laws

So why did you resurrect this old dead tired thread ??

It lacks any substance.

Because trumps trying to give religions more power. He's using them. Now's the time to fight back. And why start a new thread?

The town hall shouldnt have been held at a church and the guy shouldn't have been arrested for offending the church. Authoritarianism

Trump simply reversed LBJ's executive order.

No big deal.

For openers then somebody should research and link LBJ's order, and also Trumps reversal.

Then you can start to have an intelligent discussion about it.

And you should probably start a new thread not resurrect an old tired one.

Again, why create a thread about this subject when one already exists?

And if Trump is reversing executive orders expect the unholy alliance between the GOP and god to get stronger.

That's OK because the more you push the more unpopular you become