Senator Lindsey Graham explains why he needs an AR-15 civilian rifle...

[KissMy]

September 2014, Missouri passed SB 656 allowing anyone with a concealed weapons permit to carry guns openly in cities or towns with bans against the open carrying of firearms. The age to CCW was dropped from 21 to 19. It also allows armed school employees to CCW on campuses. 2 years later they allowed CCW without permit by anyone over 18 not on parole! Violent crime soared since then.

IL also forced Chicago to allow gun carry & the same spike in violent crime happened there also.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If it weren't for the alarming rise in mass shootings,

Quantify this. Cite sources.
Fact: 2017 to 2018, mass shooting deaths fell 36.5%
Fact: 2018 to 2019 present, mass shooting deaths have fallen 25%
US mass shootings, 1982-2019: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

 

[OldLady]

If it weren't for the alarming rise in mass shootings,

Quantify this. Cite sources.
Fact: 2017 to 2018, mass shooting deaths fell 36.5%
Fact: 2018 to 2019 present, mass shooting deaths have fallen 25%
US mass shootings, 1982-2019: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

I am not an idiot. I follow the news, not some twisted bullshit website that gives you nothing but pretzel facts and logic. You know exactly what kind of mass shootings I'm talking about. Three in a week, not even a month ago.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If it weren't for the alarming rise in mass shootings,

Quantify this. Cite sources.
Fact: 2017 to 2018, mass shooting deaths fell 36.5%
Fact: 2018 to 2019 present, mass shooting deaths have fallen 25%
US mass shootings, 1982-2019: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

I am not an idiot. I follow the news, not some twisted bullshit website...

Mother Jones? A watercarrier for the leftist agenda?

You know exactly what kind of mass shootings I'm talking about. Three in a week, not even a month ago.

Look at you, knowing you are unable to quantify your claim or cite support for it, but holding onto it none the less.

 

[Blues Man]

You ban would increase violence... fact

Shootings increased in Chicago since CCW were allowed. St. Louis allows CCW & has the highest violent crime rate in the US.

That's a stretch

The people committing those violent crimes aren't the people with CCW permits. They are people who cannot get CCW permits.

10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

Here we go again with the gun deaths bullshit

over 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides and suicide is not a crime

It's not bullshit, the gun deaths REAL! When I was 6 years old, my 8 year old sister grabbed Dads gun & tried to shoot ME!!! Other extended family have shot or been by spouse. None have shot or driven off criminals.

I never said they weren't real Dipshit

I said 2/3 of those are suicides and suicide is not crime so they don't count

 

[Blues Man]

Actually over 1600 gun deaths are cops shooting criminals not murder

That drops the number of people murdered by a person with a gun to 8500

Most of those are criminals killing other criminals.

And again of all murders those committed with an AR 15 winds up being less than 1%

Cops shooting criminals is not including in homicide figures.
Yes, I have read that 65% to 80% of the homicides in some cities are gang related. We have no gangs in Maine, so 0% are gang related here. I'm sure that is the case in many areas. And just for the record, to me those people count, too. A lot of those gang members get "recruited" very young, under threat.

It's included in the gun deaths numbers you people use all the time

Maine has one of the lowest murder rates in the country and guess what Maine does not require a permit to buy a gun does not have an "assault weapon" ban, no magazine size restrictions etc

So how do you explain that Maine has a murder rate that is less than half that of CA , a state that has all the gun laws and restrictions that you don't have in Maine?

Gun laws in Maine - Wikipedia

The homicide rates I am using -- the 10,000+ p/year -- is only homicides and does not include law enforcement.

I'm perfectly aware of the gun laws in Maine. Did it ever occur to you that states impose gun laws and restrictions BECAUSE there is gun violence? What has that got to do with the price of eggs?

But your entire premise is that all these restrictions will lower the murder rate

So explain how Maine which has virtually none of the restrictions you want to impose has one of the lowest murder rates in the country.

Could is be as I have said all along?

Guns are not the decisive factor in what drives societal violence.

25% of all murder where guns are used takes place in just 4 urban areas, Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit and Washington DC.

All these places have stricter gun laws than Maine yet all these cities have murder rates far in excess of many entire states.

Why is that if as you say gun laws reduce the murder rate ?

How is telling people like me that we can't own this or that type of gun or this or that type of magazine going to lower the murder rate in the cities listed above?

Or could it be that what I have been saying all along that a myriad of societal ills such as segregation, poverty, unemployment, underemployment, poor education, the breakdown of the family, trade in illicit drugs, that plague our inner cities is the actual driving force behind the vast majority of the violence in this country and that violence in these very small very well known areas of the country is in fact so bad that it skews the numbers for the entire country

If it weren't for the alarming rise in mass shootings, your argument would be tempting. However, the violence is erupting in the public square, in the suburbs, in farm country. I agree that city based gang violence makes up a good portion of the homicide deaths in this country. I've heard it said that gang related gun deaths make up 65-80% of gun homicides. Is that in a specific city like Chicago, or is that nationwide? I would like some real fact based numbers on that. I'm not about to dismiss their deaths, either, btw, just because they're gang members, It is pretty obvious that we aren't doing a good enough job of controlling guns if these kids are still getting hold of them. Do you want to give up?

What alarming rise?

Mass shooting still account for 1% or less of all murders.

And no the violence isn't "erupting" all over the country. The violence is where is always has been.

We have plenty of gun laws on the books and we aren't enforcing them that is the problem.

And really what makes you think we can control guns criminals get their hands on? Is it because our record of keeping illegal drugs off the streets is so good?

Guns are not the cause of the violence that plagues our inner cities. I have repeated this too many times to you but you don't want to believe it

 

[Blues Man]

That's a stretch

The people committing those violent crimes aren't the people with CCW permits. They are people who cannot get CCW permits.

10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

Here we go again with the gun deaths bullshit

over 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides and suicide is not a crime

It's not bullshit, the gun deaths REAL! When I was 6 years old, my 8 year old sister grabbed Dads gun & tried to shoot ME!!! Other extended family have shot or been by spouse. None have shot or driven off criminals.

So you are using your personal experience to judge other people? Weak. Lol

Yes, I have more gun experience than most on this board & it matches the real numbers, not the myths you retards parrot.

No you have shit luck and it seems you have family members who are crazy and violent

I have real experience with violent crime and I know a gun is the single best tool for self defense

 

[2aguy]

September 2014, Missouri passed SB 656 allowing anyone with a concealed weapons permit to carry guns openly in cities or towns with bans against the open carrying of firearms. The age to CCW was dropped from 21 to 19. It also allows armed school employees to CCW on campuses. 2 years later they allowed CCW without permit by anyone over 18 not on parole! Violent crime soared since then.

IL also forced Chicago to allow gun carry & the same spike in violent crime happened there also.

And you are wrong......

St. Louis has a high gun crime rate because they release violent gun criminals over and over again....same thing with chicago...

You don't know what you are talking about....

this is why Chicago has high gun murder rates...

Top cop laments violence as 66 shot, 5 fatally, over long Fourth of July weekend


Between last Wednesday and Friday, 42 people were charged with felony gun-related offenses, he said, but only 15 remain in custody.


That lack of accountability for gun offenders has damaged the Police Department’s relationship with the communities most beset by violence, Johnson said, making victims of crimes less likely to cooperate with officers.
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“It’s not about mass incarceration. It’s not about having quotas. But when somebody has a demonstrated track record of being a violent gun offender, that should say something to the judges who are making decisions about bail. They shouldn’t be out on the street,” Lightfoot said. “We can’t keep our communities safe if people just keep cycling through the system because what that says to them is, I can do whatever I want, I can carry whatever I want, I can shoot up a crowd and I’m going to be back on the street. How does that make sense? It doesn’t.”
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/07/criminal_justice_reform_comes_home_to_roost.html
=======

CWB Chicago: You Be The Judge: We give you the case details. You try to guess their bail amount.

McKay was sentenced to four years for robbery in 2008; two years for aggravated unlawful use of a weapon (firearm) in 2010; seven years for being a felon in possession of a weapon (firearm) in 2012; and three years for possession of fentanyl in 2016.
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For McKay, who has two gun convictions and a robbery conviction, Willis set bail at….$5,000. McKay will need to put down a 10% deposit of $500 to go free. Willis also ordered him to go on electronic monitoring if he is released.

Some details that Willis did not know:
• McKay’s 2008 robbery conviction involved an armed carjacking. Prosecutors reduced the charge to “ordinary” robbery as part of a plea deal.• In 2012, McKay’s second gun case also included allegations that he fired the weapon. Prosecutors dropped the weapon discharge count and seven other weapons charges in a plea deal.• The 2016 drug possession charge started as allegations of manufacture-delivery of fentanyl, but, again, prosecutors pleaded that down to possession.

========
Detroit 911: Thousands in crisis left waiting for Detroit police

A 7 Action News investigation reveals that, over a 20-month period, 650 priority one calls took more than 60 minutes to receive a response. The calls include reports of active shootings, rapes in progress, felonious assaults, armed robberies, armed attacks from the mentally ill and suicides in progress.

=========

Under DA Krasner, more gun-possession cases get court diversionary program

In June 2018, Maalik Jackson-Wallace was arrested on a Frankford street and charged with carrying a concealed gun without a license and a gram of marijuana. It was his first arrest.

The Philadelphia District Attorney’s Office recommended the Frankford man for a court diversionary program called Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition (ARD) that put him on two years’ probation. His record could have been expunged if he had successfully completed the program.

But Jackson-Wallace, 24, was arrested again on gun-possession charges in March in Bridesburg. He was released from jail after a judge granted a defense motion for unsecured bail. And on June 13, he was arrested a third time — charged with murder in a shooting two days earlier in Frankford that killed a 26-year-old man.

Jackson-Wallace’s case has been cited by some on social media as an example of how they say District Attorney Larry Krasner’s policies are too lenient and lead to gun violence.



In fact, statistics obtained from the DA’s Office show that in 2018, Krasner’s first year in office, 78 gun-possession cases were placed in the ARD program — compared with just 12 such diversions in gun-possession cases the previous year, 11 in 2016, 14 in 2015. and 10 in 2014.

============

Officials Address 'Vicious Cycle' Of I-Bond Violations After Violent Weekend

Many of the gun offenders arrested by Chicago police over the weekend walked out of jail on bond, without having to pay a dime.

As of Monday morning, 19 people had been arrested on gun-related charges. By Monday afternoon, 11 were back on the street, some with prior gun offenses.

“We know who a lot of these people are,” Chicago Police Supt. Eddie Johnson said. “And how do we know that? Because we keep arresting them over and over and over and over and over again. And it’s just a vicious cycle.”

In a tweet Sunday night, a Chicago police spokesperson criticized the practice of letting gun offenders out on Individual Recognizance Bonds or “I-Bonds.”
-----

The tweet said, in part, “Letting gun offenders out on I-Bonds shows there is absolutely no repercussion for carrying illegal guns In Chicago.”
-----
In a statement, an office representative said since the beginning of this year, 72% of gun related cases received monetary bail or no bond.
==================
http://www.cwbchicago.com/2019/05/man-connected-to-whitney-young-high.html

The man who is charged with driving the carjacked SUV of a Whitney Young High School teacher this week is on probation for possessing a handgun—a probation term that was cut in half just three weeks ago by a Cook County judge.

The CPD arrest report that documents the capture of Nicholas Williams on Tuesday says cops and federal agents found Williams “in possession” of a loaded 9-millimeter handgun with a defaced serial number. But, a source with knowledge of the case told CWBChicago tonight that the gun was “ditched” and weapons charges could not be approved.

The Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office did not immediately respond to an after-hours email seeking comment.

Court records show that in Aug. 2017 Williams was charged with felony unlawful use of a weapon for allegedly carrying a handgun in the front of his waistband during a traffic stop on the West Side. Police said in a report that the gun had been reported stolen one month earlier.

A grand jury returned a 12 felony count true bill against Williams. But the Cook County State’s Attorney dropped all charges on May 3, 2018.

Five months after that case was dropped, Williams was charged with a new set of eight weapons felonies for allegedly carrying a handgun in the front of his waistband while riding his bike on the West Side.

----

Last month, Judge Maria Kuriakos-Ciesil sentenced Williams to two year’s probation, 30 hours of community service and 175 days time served in the case.

His attorneys asked for a reduced sentence and, on April 29th, Kuriakos-Ciesil granted the motion by reducing Williams’ punishment to one year of TASC probation and 30 hours of community service.

-------------------------
14 year old shot two men, released without bond or home confinement...


Cook County, IL: 14-Year-Old Charged With Shooting Two, Freed Without Supervision - The Truth About Guns

Welcome to Cook County, Illinois, where crime often has no meaningful consequences. Between a State’s Attorney’s Office reluctant to file charges and judges who mollycoddles defendants, Chicagoland has become the modern Wild West.

Case in point: a 14-year-old who (reportedly) shot and tried to kill two in a nice uptown neighborhood was released by a judge Friday to his parent with no bond – not even electronic home monitoring.


The Cook County judge claims the police failed to bring this suspected would-be gang killer (pictured above, right) in front of a judge quickly enough. So the judge, in order to penalize the police, released the kid without conditions other than to report to court next week.

Of course, the judge is really only penalizing the community as the accused certainly missed his calling as a choir boy.

The police, on the other hand, said they had concerns about the young man’s safety. Police released images of the suspects to the media in an effort to identify them and the media published them.

The Chicago mainstream media refer to the accused as a “boy.” Even though this “boy”reportedly shot one man in the back, abdomen, buttocks and groin and the other in the head.
===========

16 year old shooter released on 10,000 bond.....Cuomo's Raise the age bill for family court let this shooter go free on bail...

https://www.dailywire.com/news/44304/case-16-year-old-accused-shooting-bronx-street-hank-berrien

Bronx Supreme Court Justice John Collins made Garcia’s release contingent on either $10,000 bail or $25,000 bond, he made bail and he was freed. As The New York Post explains, “The law already guarantees that he can’t be held in a jail that also houses adults — and if convicted, his sentencing judge would have to take his age into account.”
--------
On Monday, prosecutor Daniel Defilippi indicated he would try to stop the case from being transferred to Family Court. Assemblywoman Nicole Malliotakis, referring to the case as a “prime example” of the problems with the Raise the Age bill, said, “One of the things we brought up during debate was how this encourages gang recruitment. Gangs can recruit young people to do dirty work because they won’t be treated the same when caught.
------
Residents of the neighborhood acknowledged that the neighborhood has become a frightening place to live; one said, “We don’t go out. We don’t go to the park. I keep my kids in the house. We’re scared.” Another commented, “People don’t feel safe. People shooting in the street like that? No one is safe.” A third commented of the young girl, “She is lucky. Like an angel is watching over her because she was really close.”

 

[2aguy]

September 2014, Missouri passed SB 656 allowing anyone with a concealed weapons permit to carry guns openly in cities or towns with bans against the open carrying of firearms. The age to CCW was dropped from 21 to 19. It also allows armed school employees to CCW on campuses. 2 years later they allowed CCW without permit by anyone over 18 not on parole! Violent crime soared since then.

IL also forced Chicago to allow gun carry & the same spike in violent crime happened there also.

This is why St. Louis has high gun murder rates...

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.

In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.

 

[KissMy]

September 2014, Missouri passed SB 656 allowing anyone with a concealed weapons permit to carry guns openly in cities or towns with bans against the open carrying of firearms. The age to CCW was dropped from 21 to 19. It also allows armed school employees to CCW on campuses. 2 years later they allowed CCW without permit by anyone over 18 not on parole! Violent crime soared since then.

IL also forced Chicago to allow gun carry & the same spike in violent crime happened there also.

This is why St. Louis has high gun murder rates...

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.

In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.

Like I said, St. Louis Missouri needs tougher gun laws, prosecution & mandatory sentencing! We already have more law enforcement police per resident than any US city! We have the highest violent crime rate in the country & rank 13 highest in the World!

 

[KissMy]

Crime Rate Dropped Because Fewer People Have Guns. Gun Nuts obfuscate this by saying there are more guns = less crime, but the fact is 30% have 8 guns while 70% have none!

 

[Rustic]

That's a stretch

The people committing those violent crimes aren't the people with CCW permits. They are people who cannot get CCW permits.

10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

Here we go again with the gun deaths bullshit

over 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicides and suicide is not a crime

It's not bullshit, the gun deaths REAL! When I was 6 years old, my 8 year old sister grabbed Dads gun & tried to shoot ME!!! Other extended family have shot or been by spouse. None have shot or driven off criminals.

So you are using your personal experience to judge other people? Weak. Lol

Yes, I have more gun experience than most on this board & it matches the real numbers, not the myths you retards parrot.

Lol

 

[Rustic]

Crime Rate Dropped Because Fewer People Have Guns. Gun Nuts obfuscate this by saying there are more guns = less crime, but the fact is 30% have 8 guns while 70% have none!

Yes, in urban America
But certainly not in rural America