Save Energy - Paint Roofs and High-ways White!

[Red Dawn]

Nobody is denying that it helps in the very immediate area of the roof, but not on the global level that is being stated

How do you know?

Can you please post your calculations that demonstrate this, and provide us with your engineering pedigree and education?

Or, are you just pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutly zero empirical data to back your assertion up?

I'm going to trust the calcualtions of three top scientists, from one on the nation's top science labs, before I trust your "opinion". Unless you can provide your calculations that back up your statement.

Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses? For God sakes, you are such a fool.

I haven't read the study, or evaluated the calculations.

You have?

Wait....no, you didn't?


I don't pretend to know the answers.

I just know when given a choice between a top notch engineering study conducted by three top Lawrence Livermore Lab scientists, or the opinion of a wingnut message board poster based on an emotional gut level reaction, I'm going to trust the scientists.

Unless you can post your research and calculations that says differently than Lawrence Livermore Lab.

 

[Meister]

How do you know?

Can you please post your calculations that demonstrate this, and provide us with your engineering pedigree and education?

Or, are you just pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutly zero empirical data to back your assertion up?

I'm going to trust the calcualtions of three top scientists, from one on the nation's top science labs, before I trust your "opinion". Unless you can provide your calculations that back up your statement.

Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses? For God sakes, you are such a fool.

I was under the impression he was calling for a change both in rooves and roads.

I have no idea how much effect that might have globally, but I promise that it would effect places that are highly paved...like New Jersey for example, which is, I am informed, the most highly paved place in the world percentage-wise.

Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, it would have impact on the immediate area of the roof...(same as the road), but not on the global level as was stated. It would be like lighting a match, and say your warming the Earth...that's just nuts. You could have a 100,000 acre forrest fire, and it won't warm up the Earth...just in the immediate area.

 

[Red Dawn]

Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses? For God sakes, you are such a fool.

I was under the impression he was calling for a change both in rooves and roads.

I have no idea how much effect that might have globally, but I promise that it would effect places that are highly paved...like New Jersey for example, which is, I am informed, the most highly paved place in the world percentage-wise.

Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, it would have impact on the immediate area of the roof...(same as the road), but not on the global level as was stated. It would be like lighting a match, and say your warming the Earth...that's just nuts. You could have a 100,000 acre forrest fire, and it won't warm up the Earth...just in the immediate area.

You keep posting your opinion on this, but provide no valid engineering studies to back you up.

You expect us to accept your opinion at face value, with no calculations or viable engineering studies to back you up?


Please post an engineering study from nationally recognized experts in the field, that back up your conclusion?

Oh, what's that you say? You don't have a single calculation, nor one single viable engineering study that supports your conclusions?


Why didn't you say so? No one could have predicted that your conclusion was pulled straight out of your ass.

 

[Meister]

How do you know?

Can you please post your calculations that demonstrate this, and provide us with your engineering pedigree and education?

Or, are you just pulling shit out of your ass, with absolutly zero empirical data to back your assertion up?

I'm going to trust the calcualtions of three top scientists, from one on the nation's top science labs, before I trust your "opinion". Unless you can provide your calculations that back up your statement.

Show me the links to where painting roofs white will lower global temperatures, and while your at it show me their calculations.....
Or, are you just listening to the ones that are pulling it out of their asses? For God sakes, you are such a fool.

I haven't read the study, or evaluated the calculations.

You have?

Wait....no, you didn't?


I don't pretend to know the answers.

I just know when given a choice between a top notch engineering study conducted by three top Lawrence Livermore Lab scientists, or the opinion of a wingnut message board poster based on an emotional gut level reaction, I'm going to trust the scientists.

Unless you can post your research and calculations that says differently than Lawrence Livermore Lab.

Who funded their study Red? I bet it was someone with an agenda. Anyone can cherry pick results, and get rid of the other results to get to the desired results. I don't have to prove anything. You have to prove it because your the one trying to shove it down our throats with such nonsense.
Until then, go pound sand

 

[Meister]

I was under the impression he was calling for a change both in rooves and roads.

I have no idea how much effect that might have globally, but I promise that it would effect places that are highly paved...like New Jersey for example, which is, I am informed, the most highly paved place in the world percentage-wise.

Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, it would have impact on the immediate area of the roof...(same as the road), but not on the global level as was stated. It would be like lighting a match, and say your warming the Earth...that's just nuts. You could have a 100,000 acre forrest fire, and it won't warm up the Earth...just in the immediate area.

You keep posting your opinion on this, but provide no valid engineering studies to back you up.

You expect us to accept your opinion at face value, with no calculations or viable engineering studies to back you up?


Please post an engineering study from nationally recognized experts in the field, that back up your conclusion?

Oh, what's that you say? You don't have a single calculation, nor one single viable engineering study that supports your conclusions?


Why didn't you say so? No one could have predicted that your conclusion was pulled straight out of your ass.

Red you are clueless in life. I do feel sorry for you to be so gulible that you believe such tripe, and have no evidence or calculations to back up such tripe. You have no clue who the Lawrence Livermoore Labs are, or who they represent. I know you had no knowledge of this lab before this rediculous claim was made public. Yet, your willing to be made a fool of on this board to back up what you know nothing about. Like I said...go pound sand, sonny.

 

[Red Dawn]

Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, it would have impact on the immediate area of the roof...(same as the road), but not on the global level as was stated. It would be like lighting a match, and say your warming the Earth...that's just nuts. You could have a 100,000 acre forrest fire, and it won't warm up the Earth...just in the immediate area.

You keep posting your opinion on this, but provide no valid engineering studies to back you up.

You expect us to accept your opinion at face value, with no calculations or viable engineering studies to back you up?


Please post an engineering study from nationally recognized experts in the field, that back up your conclusion?

Oh, what's that you say? You don't have a single calculation, nor one single viable engineering study that supports your conclusions?


Why didn't you say so? No one could have predicted that your conclusion was pulled straight out of your ass.

Red you are clueless in life. I do feel sorry for you to be so gulible that you believe such tripe, and have no evidence or calculations to back up such tripe. You have no clue who the Lawrence Livermoore Labs are, or who they represent. I know you had no knowledge of this lab before this rediculous claim was made public. Yet, your willing to be made a fool of on this board to back up what you know nothing about. Like I said...go pound sand, sonny.

LOL

I have friends who work at Lawerence Livermore.

Unlike you, I am not scientifically uniformed, and anyone who has a marginal interest in science has heard of Lawerence Livermore National Lab. Its probably the nation's top science institution, either that or Sandia.

I pray you don't have a job with any responsiblity. Because any job in business, in law, in engineering, or in science requires you to provide evidence, and data to back up anything you want to do, or want to claim.

Your claims on this thread were pulled out of your ass. You don't having a freaking clue about the science behind this topic, and neither do I. But I can admit I don't.

 

[Oddball]

And I have the Pope on speed dial!!

Aren't the interwebs fun?!?!??

 

[Red Dawn]

And I have the Pope on speed dial!!

Aren't the interwebs fun?!?!??

Not all of us work at Jiffy Lube, or live with our parents.


Some of us go to college, and have colleagues who work in responsible positions in business, law and science.


Sorry you find that hard to believe, or that somehow you think people have a vested interest in lying on message boards. I suspect its projection on your part. Just because you make shit up, you assume other people do too?



At any rate, none of you bush lovers have given me anything more than "It won't work" nonsense.

But you can't provide any data or empirical evidence for why you think that. Just pulling shit out of your ass, huh?

 

[Meister]

You keep posting your opinion on this, but provide no valid engineering studies to back you up.

You expect us to accept your opinion at face value, with no calculations or viable engineering studies to back you up?


Please post an engineering study from nationally recognized experts in the field, that back up your conclusion?

Oh, what's that you say? You don't have a single calculation, nor one single viable engineering study that supports your conclusions?


Why didn't you say so? No one could have predicted that your conclusion was pulled straight out of your ass.

Red you are clueless in life. I do feel sorry for you to be so gulible that you believe such tripe, and have no evidence or calculations to back up such tripe. You have no clue who the Lawrence Livermoore Labs are, or who they represent. I know you had no knowledge of this lab before this rediculous claim was made public. Yet, your willing to be made a fool of on this board to back up what you know nothing about. Like I said...go pound sand, sonny.

LOL

I have friends who work at Lawerence Livermore.

Unlike you, I am not scientifically uniformed, and anyone who has a marginal interest in science has heard of Lawerence Livermore National Lab. Its probably the nation's top science institution, either that or Sandia.

I pray you don't have a job with any responsiblity. Because any job in business, in law, in engineering, or in science requires you to provide evidence, and data to back up anything you want to do, or want to claim.

Your claims on this thread were pulled out of your ass. You don't having a freaking clue about the science behind this topic, and neither do I. But I can admit I don't.

Now that is just too funny. You have freinds that work there. You are now just full of shit. You can't back up a damn word you say with any information other than a left wing pipe dream and no calculations, and now you say that's science. You are a fool Red Dawn, nothing more.

 

[Meister]

And I have the Pope on speed dial!!

Aren't the interwebs fun?!?!??

Not all of us work at Jiffy Lube, or live with our parents.


Some of us go to college, and have colleagues who work in responsible positions in business, law and science.


Sorry you find that hard to believe, or that somehow you think people have a vested interest in lying on message boards. I suspect its projection on your part. Just because you make shit up, you assume other people do too?



At any rate, none of you bush lovers have given me anything more than [i]"It won't work"[/i] nonsense.

But you can't provide any data or empirical evidence for why you think that. Just pulling shit out of your ass, huh?

Nor, can you Red Dawn, You are the one that needs to prove what you claim. You can't show us where it would work. You can't do it. Hell, you got your head up Obama's butt, and you call us Bush lovers? Who's pulling what out of who's ass? Now isn't that rich?

 

[Oddball]

And I have the Pope on speed dial!!

Aren't the interwebs fun?!?!??

Not all of us work at Jiffy Lube, or live with our parents.


Some of us go to college, and have colleagues who work in responsible positions in business, law and science.

And the funniest part of that is that you're no less full of shit!!

 

[midcan5]

Funny thread, our first home was a rancher on which I put white roofing shingles 30 years ago as heat was worse than cold in this house, and the living side had the sun and many windows. Cheap house energy wise, radiator heat but darn window AC as it was old. Radiators seem so much more efficient but out of date.

We should have houses with roofs that switch from black to white, genetically change grass and trees to white, and shrink people. I've always thought shrinking people would be the best solution. Concrete highways are light enough. Now the hard part bring back trains as the main mode of transportation, actually my bicycles use little energy.

 

[American Horse]

Funny thread

I thought it would be, considering the unpractical idea being put forth as a solution to a very practical problem

our first home was a rancher on which I put white roofing shingles 30 years ago as heat was worse than cold in this house, and the living side had the sun and many windows.

There was a time when we considered roof color much more than now. A nice tax credit for new light colored roofing replacements, with an expiration date or a reduction in a few years might encourage people to decide to make the change, and to accelerate doing that since about 10% of roofs are in their last few years of useful service. My own first house built in 65 had a light grey roof, and I thought it was 'smart' at the time.

Windows facing south don’t have much heat gain in the summer but in the winter, when the sun is low, as low as 27 deg. altitude at noon at Washington, DC, the sun will shine completely across South facing room even at noon. In the summer, any overhang will prevent any sunlight entering a south facing room. East and west facing windows increase a/c in summer but they reduce heat costs in winter, all else being equal.

Cheap house energy wise, radiator heat but darn window AC as it was old. Radiators seem so much more efficient but out of date.

Window a/c’s were good because they provided zoned space air conditioning. Today we might see more thru the wall space specific units like you see in motels. These are very iefficient for both heating and cooling. Why not condition just the occupied space?

High SEER electric heat pumps are the most efficient heating/cooling system available, with both in one unit, even as compared to GEO-thermal systems when you consider long term maintenance and service.

We should have houses with roofs that switch from black to white,

Roof color doesn’t matter as much in the winter as the summer, so black wouldn’t help as much as a light color year round. A roof design pitch can’t be raised enough to make much of a difference in collecting heat passively, and passive heat gain (and loss) ought to be the first design model for an all season efficent home. Passive solar has the advantage of having fewer additional input cost after construction, and being simpler to build and maintain.

I recently explored this problem, designing a home that would take advantage of sunlight as much as possible. Present cost of energy considerations ought to put a premium on the value of north facing lots, and especially those that are suitable for walk-out basements, because they would provide a two-story south facing, winter ehat collecting, rear elevation even with a ranch. My design has a glass paneled roofed sun-porch to gather as much solar heat as possible and the siding within is step-profiled to amplify solar collection.

genetically change grass and trees to white, Rather than black

My choice of siding color of the wall in the sun-porch, is to be dark green because it is nearly effective as black in absorbing heat from the sun. What isn’t given off into the porch is to be collected in an extra deep wall cavity and transferred down into a basement level so that natural convection maximizes its benefit in the winter as it circulates upward through the floors and then the upper rooms.

and shrink people. I've always thought shrinking people would be the best solution.

We are shrinking people. In a generation there ihas been less bio-replacement now than ever before. But in this country immigration grows the human presence in spite of low replacement through birth.

Concrete highways are light enough.

Thanks.... I see you reached the same calculation as I did on the color of concrete; and asphalt, aka blacktop, within only a couple of years is about the same albedo as concrete.

Now the hard part bring back trains as the main mode of transportation, actually my bicycles use little energy

We want point to point transportation; cars and bicycles are very efficient to achieve that end. So how do we encourage people to ride bikes more often? Remember back during the energy crises of the late 70’s early 80’s one scheme to promote rail transportation was to transport passengers cars on the same train to arrive along with the passenger? That was a solution about on a par with painting roads and roofs.

Ironic that so many RR right of ways in cities have been turned into walking/bike ways. Our own city has one from center city to about 15 miles south and will soon connect to the nearest city 20 miles south; that’s quaint for the bikes, but people need to live nearer to their work to make bike riding more practical for them to want to do that.

.

 

[cbi0090]

Folks, the guy is a scientist. They live in a theoretical world. There's nothing wrong with his notion or suggestion, it's just up to us to determine whether it's practical.

 

[Old Rocks]

Folks, the guy is a scientist. They live in a theoretical world. There's nothing wrong with his notion or suggestion, it's just up to us to determine whether it's practical.

I have already tried the solution, and it does help. There are products on the market that you can paint a roof with, such as Snow Roof, and also vastly extend the lifespan of your composition roofing. So the idea has been tested, and it works.

 

[Old Rocks]

The environuts really believe that Man can actually change Mother Nature by painting roof tops? Geeze, you can paint all the highways, and all the roofs in the world white...and it will end up having no impact whatsoever, nada, none, zilch.
I wish the nuts would come down off their pedestals, and get a fucking grip on reality. We just aren't all that, where we can change what has been going on for billions of years on this planet.
This is no more than just politics, no more, and no less. Yet the environuts have drank the Kool-Aid. It has nothing to do with the environment, but some on this thread have been duped. I'm just glad they weren't at Jones Town back in the late 1970's. They would surely be part of the 800+ laying on the ground.

No, we know that by creating a more reflective roof, that the house will need less energy for cooling. A savings for the homeowner, and less CO2 created to furnish the energy.

I wish that you wingnuts would for just once consider the science behind simple suggestions.

 

[Red Dawn]

Folks, the guy is a scientist. They live in a theoretical world. There's nothing wrong with his notion or suggestion, it's just up to us to determine whether it's practical.

great point!

I'm exactly like you....I have no formal education in science, and I couldn't solve a cube root if someone had a gun to my head and my life depended on it.

And like you, I always rely on the advice and qualifications of trained experts in every other area of my life, except when I suspect they are "liberal" scientists!

Who ever heard of this crap about white reflecting solar energy and increasing albedo effect? Sounds like crazy liberal hocus pocus to me!

 

[Missourian]

From the people who brought you the properly inflated tire and a waxed car gets better fuel economy.

​

 

[Teo Smith]

Any form of energy can be transformed into another form, but the total energy always remains the same.