Saturday Night Seduction

[Shadow]

It's not that complicated but as not as easy as all that either. First of all plain old chemistry will disqualify a large percentage of women which reduces opportunity.
Respect and admiration mean vastly different things to individual women as has been demonstrated on this thread. Men are tasked with discovering exactly what represents respect and admiration to individual women ( some of whom can't even recognize it when it is being given ). Then when the woman gives it up for some "hot bad boy" his mind is really blown.
All this while the man is in need of some respect and admiration himself but is expected to provide it to the lady first. Are these qualities that men are to deny themselves while hunting for a romantic or sexual liason ?
Haven't we moved passed the time when ladies waited for a 'prince charming' to guess all her needs and provide them to her? Once women yield to the advances they wonder what happened to the man they first knew. Maybe he was too busy trying to reasasure her to be himself.
Don't worry guys--they plan to fix us up after all is said and done

The problem here is the men - or some of them, I should be clear - play the double standard.

If a man is not feeling like his own needs are being met, is he telling the woman what they are? If he tells her what they are and she attempts to deliver, is he letting her know if it's not what he needed? Does he step back to see and appreciate her efforts, even if they aren't precisely on the mark? I had a man bring me flowers I was allergic to once. He was mortified. But it was only a second date, he had no way to know, and the thought was sweet and still very much appreciated.

Also, does he say one thing and mean another? Is he feeling constrained by his own idea of having to be the "Prince Charming" and provider instead of just being himself and being open about the fact that he has needs at all? Or is he doing the whole emotional macho act and pretending needs are for wimps?

Respect and appreciation do mean different things to different women - that was my whole point. One size doesn't fit all, and we know when we're being lumped in that category and told what we want instead of asked. If you're talking about much beyond a one night stand, keeping a lady's interest in or out of bed means finding out what that means to her. AND letting her know what that means to you. Believe it or not, any good woman who cares about her man at all wants to make sure she's treating him right and satisfying his needs too. But she's no more a mind reader than he is.

Now, if you're just looking to get your rocks off and go your own way it's a whole different set of rules, and where the hot bad boys come in. But that didn't seem to be what was being asked.

Like I said----it's not all that simple having the agggressor hormones. Finding out what it is that actually makes an individual woman feel respected and appreciated for something more than sex takes work. If she is witholding sex until he finds this right combo he's also trying to figure all this out with a brain that's drowning in testosterone. Not as simple as one might think. How many men have made a complete ass of themselves trying to get a piece of one ? Do you think it's because they are stupid ?

Maybe it's because both men and women tend to keep falling into the trap of being drawn to the same type of personalities...ones that they don't really mesh well with,but are attracted to anyway. Maybe they should start looking for what they really need in a person...instead of what they want physically JMO.

 

[dilloduck]

The problem here is the men - or some of them, I should be clear - play the double standard.

If a man is not feeling like his own needs are being met, is he telling the woman what they are? If he tells her what they are and she attempts to deliver, is he letting her know if it's not what he needed? Does he step back to see and appreciate her efforts, even if they aren't precisely on the mark? I had a man bring me flowers I was allergic to once. He was mortified. But it was only a second date, he had no way to know, and the thought was sweet and still very much appreciated.

Also, does he say one thing and mean another? Is he feeling constrained by his own idea of having to be the "Prince Charming" and provider instead of just being himself and being open about the fact that he has needs at all? Or is he doing the whole emotional macho act and pretending needs are for wimps?

Respect and appreciation do mean different things to different women - that was my whole point. One size doesn't fit all, and we know when we're being lumped in that category and told what we want instead of asked. If you're talking about much beyond a one night stand, keeping a lady's interest in or out of bed means finding out what that means to her. AND letting her know what that means to you. Believe it or not, any good woman who cares about her man at all wants to make sure she's treating him right and satisfying his needs too. But she's no more a mind reader than he is.

Now, if you're just looking to get your rocks off and go your own way it's a whole different set of rules, and where the hot bad boys come in. But that didn't seem to be what was being asked.

Like I said----it's not all that simple having the agggressor hormones. Finding out what it is that actually makes an individual woman feel respected and appreciated for something more than sex takes work. If she is witholding sex until he finds this right combo he's also trying to figure all this out with a brain that's drowning in testosterone. Not as simple as one might think. How many men have made a complete ass of themselves trying to get a piece of one ? Do you think it's because they are stupid ?

Maybe it's because both men and women tend to keep falling into the trap of being drawn to the same type of personalities...ones that they don't really mesh well with,but are attracted to anyway. Maybe they should start looking for what they really need in a person...instead of what they want physically JMO.

I think that's a large part of it---we get pretty stuck in our own patterns and chemisty. Hard to be honest, put down the pride and take chances with people that don't exactly fit what we think are ideal.

 

[dilloduck]

Like I said----it's not all that simple having the agggressor hormones. Finding out what it is that actually makes an individual woman feel respected and appreciated for something more than sex takes work. If she is witholding sex until he finds this right combo he's also trying to figure all this out with a brain that's drowning in testosterone. Not as simple as one might think. How many men have made a complete ass of themselves trying to get a piece of one ? Do you think it's because they are stupid ?

Stupid? No. Making a classic mistake? Absolutely. Although I have to say, if a man was interested enough to make a complete ass of himself trying to get a piece that would be impressive to me. Even if he didn't entirely "get it".

As far as whether she's withholding sex until he hits the right combo - that's individual. For me, probably not. But if it doesn't come with time? If I keep being told what I want instead of asked or listened to when I try to explain it and I get frustrated over not being told what he wants? Then there are two choices - either try harder to get through, which isn't necessarily a great idea in practice, or turn away.

Remember what a good seduction is all about. Getting inside that person's mind, not just their body. If there's nothing to base that on, you're wasting your time.

What do women use as a prize to seduce men ?

 

[goldcatt]

The problem here is the men - or some of them, I should be clear - play the double standard.

If a man is not feeling like his own needs are being met, is he telling the woman what they are? If he tells her what they are and she attempts to deliver, is he letting her know if it's not what he needed? Does he step back to see and appreciate her efforts, even if they aren't precisely on the mark? I had a man bring me flowers I was allergic to once. He was mortified. But it was only a second date, he had no way to know, and the thought was sweet and still very much appreciated.

Also, does he say one thing and mean another? Is he feeling constrained by his own idea of having to be the "Prince Charming" and provider instead of just being himself and being open about the fact that he has needs at all? Or is he doing the whole emotional macho act and pretending needs are for wimps?

Respect and appreciation do mean different things to different women - that was my whole point. One size doesn't fit all, and we know when we're being lumped in that category and told what we want instead of asked. If you're talking about much beyond a one night stand, keeping a lady's interest in or out of bed means finding out what that means to her. AND letting her know what that means to you. Believe it or not, any good woman who cares about her man at all wants to make sure she's treating him right and satisfying his needs too. But she's no more a mind reader than he is.

Now, if you're just looking to get your rocks off and go your own way it's a whole different set of rules, and where the hot bad boys come in. But that didn't seem to be what was being asked.

Like I said----it's not all that simple having the agggressor hormones. Finding out what it is that actually makes an individual woman feel respected and appreciated for something more than sex takes work. If she is witholding sex until he finds this right combo he's also trying to figure all this out with a brain that's drowning in testosterone. Not as simple as one might think. How many men have made a complete ass of themselves trying to get a piece of one ? Do you think it's because they are stupid ?

Maybe it's because both men and women tend to keep falling into the trap of being drawn to the same type of personalities...ones that they don't really mesh well with,but are attracted to anyway. Maybe they should start looking for what they really need in a person...instead of what they want physically JMO.

Good point. Physical chemistry isn't everything.

Isn't there a Stones song about that? Can't always get what you want....

 

[Shadow]

Like I said----it's not all that simple having the agggressor hormones. Finding out what it is that actually makes an individual woman feel respected and appreciated for something more than sex takes work. If she is witholding sex until he finds this right combo he's also trying to figure all this out with a brain that's drowning in testosterone. Not as simple as one might think. How many men have made a complete ass of themselves trying to get a piece of one ? Do you think it's because they are stupid ?

Stupid? No. Making a classic mistake? Absolutely. Although I have to say, if a man was interested enough to make a complete ass of himself trying to get a piece that would be impressive to me. Even if he didn't entirely "get it".

As far as whether she's withholding sex until he hits the right combo - that's individual. For me, probably not. But if it doesn't come with time? If I keep being told what I want instead of asked or listened to when I try to explain it and I get frustrated over not being told what he wants? Then there are two choices - either try harder to get through, which isn't necessarily a great idea in practice, or turn away.

Remember what a good seduction is all about. Getting inside that person's mind, not just their body. If there's nothing to base that on, you're wasting your time.

What do women use as a prize to seduce men ?

Maybe if men keep running into this problem. Sex being used as reward/punishment. They are dating the wrong kind of women, and need to figure out why they are attracted to this quality (not all women do this you know).

 

[dilloduck]

Like I said----it's not all that simple having the agggressor hormones. Finding out what it is that actually makes an individual woman feel respected and appreciated for something more than sex takes work. If she is witholding sex until he finds this right combo he's also trying to figure all this out with a brain that's drowning in testosterone. Not as simple as one might think. How many men have made a complete ass of themselves trying to get a piece of one ? Do you think it's because they are stupid ?

Maybe it's because both men and women tend to keep falling into the trap of being drawn to the same type of personalities...ones that they don't really mesh well with,but are attracted to anyway. Maybe they should start looking for what they really need in a person...instead of what they want physically JMO.

Good point. Physical chemistry isn't everything.

Isn't there a Stones song about that? Can't always get what you want....

Never underestimate the power of personality chemistry.

 

[goldcatt]

Like I said----it's not all that simple having the agggressor hormones. Finding out what it is that actually makes an individual woman feel respected and appreciated for something more than sex takes work. If she is witholding sex until he finds this right combo he's also trying to figure all this out with a brain that's drowning in testosterone. Not as simple as one might think. How many men have made a complete ass of themselves trying to get a piece of one ? Do you think it's because they are stupid ?

Stupid? No. Making a classic mistake? Absolutely. Although I have to say, if a man was interested enough to make a complete ass of himself trying to get a piece that would be impressive to me. Even if he didn't entirely "get it".

As far as whether she's withholding sex until he hits the right combo - that's individual. For me, probably not. But if it doesn't come with time? If I keep being told what I want instead of asked or listened to when I try to explain it and I get frustrated over not being told what he wants? Then there are two choices - either try harder to get through, which isn't necessarily a great idea in practice, or turn away.

Remember what a good seduction is all about. Getting inside that person's mind, not just their body. If there's nothing to base that on, you're wasting your time.

What do women use as a prize to seduce men ?

Can't speak for all women. For me the answer would be who's the man and what does he want? Our bodies, of course. But how to set the stage and make it as mind-blowing as possible? What does he really want, and how can I give it to him? Yeah, it takes a little work. But the prize is worth it.

 

[Madeline]

dilloduck, if your only objective is a sexually fulfilling relationship even then, it helps enormously to show the lady some respect and attention. And frankly, I haven't wanted that in like thirty years...I doubt many do. I want a friend, supporter, companion and lover....my litmus test for a man is do I feel more relaxed around him? Do I feel pretty with him? If the answer is not "yes" to both after a few dates, the relationship just ain't working for me.

And dilloduck, I don't know any woman who wants a "hot bad boy". This ain't high school.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0XAI-PFQcA]YouTube - Respect[/ame]

 

[dilloduck]

dilloduck, if your only objective is a sexually fulfilling relationship even then, it helps enormously to show the lady some respect and attention. And frankly, I haven't wanted that in like thirty years...I doubt many do. I want a friend, supporter, companion and lover....my litmus test for a man is do I feel more relaxed around him? Do I feel pretty with him? If the answer is not "yes" to both after a few dates, the relationship just ain't working for me.

And dilloduck, I don't know any woman who wants a "hot bad boy". This ain't high school.

YouTube - Respect

sex isn't the only agenda here but don't tell me it's not an intergral part of a male female relationship. Can you feel relaxed and pretty al lby yourself or do you need a man to do that for you ?
hot bad boy attraction is over in high school ? I doubt that seriously.

 

[dilloduck]

Stupid? No. Making a classic mistake? Absolutely. Although I have to say, if a man was interested enough to make a complete ass of himself trying to get a piece that would be impressive to me. Even if he didn't entirely "get it".

As far as whether she's withholding sex until he hits the right combo - that's individual. For me, probably not. But if it doesn't come with time? If I keep being told what I want instead of asked or listened to when I try to explain it and I get frustrated over not being told what he wants? Then there are two choices - either try harder to get through, which isn't necessarily a great idea in practice, or turn away.

Remember what a good seduction is all about. Getting inside that person's mind, not just their body. If there's nothing to base that on, you're wasting your time.

What do women use as a prize to seduce men ?

Can't speak for all women. For me the answer would be who's the man and what does he want? Our bodies, of course. But how to set the stage and make it as mind-blowing as possible? What does he really want, and how can I give it to him? Yeah, it takes a little work. But the prize is worth it.

no--the question is what is the number one thing that women use to seduce a man ?

 

[goldcatt]

Maybe it's because both men and women tend to keep falling into the trap of being drawn to the same type of personalities...ones that they don't really mesh well with,but are attracted to anyway. Maybe they should start looking for what they really need in a person...instead of what they want physically JMO.

Good point. Physical chemistry isn't everything.

Isn't there a Stones song about that? Can't always get what you want....

Never underestimate the power of personality chemistry.

Seriously? I would never underestimate that. That's the real attraction, and much more powerful than the purely physical.

 

[Madeline]

dilloduck, trust me, attraction to boys ended in high school. Attraction to bad men or boys ended in high school (okay, maybe freshman year of college). I'm in my 50's, dilloduck. Do you seriously think I want a man with a criminal record to date?

Why not tell us ladies a bit more what makes you purr? None of us is 100% with our sex lives, apart from mebbe Lumpy there.

 

[goldcatt]

What do women use as a prize to seduce men ?

Can't speak for all women. For me the answer would be who's the man and what does he want? Our bodies, of course. But how to set the stage and make it as mind-blowing as possible? What does he really want, and how can I give it to him? Yeah, it takes a little work. But the prize is worth it.

no--the question is what is the number one thing that women use to seduce a man ?

That's my whole point. Our bodies of course, that's the ultimate goal of any seduction isn't it? But the real key to a good seduction lies in making it something so desirable for him, personally, individually, that it's an experience he either can't pass up or will never forget - preferably both. There is no one set answer.

 

[dilloduck]

Stupid? No. Making a classic mistake? Absolutely. Although I have to say, if a man was interested enough to make a complete ass of himself trying to get a piece that would be impressive to me. Even if he didn't entirely "get it".

As far as whether she's withholding sex until he hits the right combo - that's individual. For me, probably not. But if it doesn't come with time? If I keep being told what I want instead of asked or listened to when I try to explain it and I get frustrated over not being told what he wants? Then there are two choices - either try harder to get through, which isn't necessarily a great idea in practice, or turn away.

Remember what a good seduction is all about. Getting inside that person's mind, not just their body. If there's nothing to base that on, you're wasting your time.

What do women use as a prize to seduce men ?

Maybe if men keep running into this problem. Sex being used as reward/punishment. They are dating the wrong kind of women, and need to figure out why they are attracted to this quality (not all women do this you know).

Interesting---then some women use sex to seduce men to ---?

 

[Shadow]

dilloduck, if your only objective is a sexually fulfilling relationship even then, it helps enormously to show the lady some respect and attention. And frankly, I haven't wanted that in like thirty years...I doubt many do. I want a friend, supporter, companion and lover....my litmus test for a man is do I feel more relaxed around him? Do I feel pretty with him? If the answer is not "yes" to both after a few dates, the relationship just ain't working for me.

And dilloduck, I don't know any woman who wants a "hot bad boy". This ain't high school.

YouTube - Respect

sex isn't the only agenda here but don't tell me it's not an intergral part of a male female relationship. Can you feel relaxed and pretty al lby yourself or do you need a man to do that for you ?
hot bad boy attraction is over in high school ? I doubt that seriously.

Trust me. When you have had a "hot bad boy"...you tend to learn they aren't all that they are cracked up to be most of the time. You learn to appreciate other qualities in men much more as you get older...and wiser.

 

[dilloduck]

Can't speak for all women. For me the answer would be who's the man and what does he want? Our bodies, of course. But how to set the stage and make it as mind-blowing as possible? What does he really want, and how can I give it to him? Yeah, it takes a little work. But the prize is worth it.

no--the question is what is the number one thing that women use to seduce a man ?

That's my whole point. Our bodies of course, that's the ultimate goal of any seduction isn't it? But the real key to a good seduction lies in making it something so desirable for him, personally, individually, that it's an experience he either can't pass up or will never forget - preferably both. There is no one set answer.

obviously there are as many answers as there are men and women but I'm only speaking in very general. Shadow pointed out that sex can also be used as a means to an end and not the whole purpose for seduction.

 

[goldcatt]

Stupid? No. Making a classic mistake? Absolutely. Although I have to say, if a man was interested enough to make a complete ass of himself trying to get a piece that would be impressive to me. Even if he didn't entirely "get it".

As far as whether she's withholding sex until he hits the right combo - that's individual. For me, probably not. But if it doesn't come with time? If I keep being told what I want instead of asked or listened to when I try to explain it and I get frustrated over not being told what he wants? Then there are two choices - either try harder to get through, which isn't necessarily a great idea in practice, or turn away.

Remember what a good seduction is all about. Getting inside that person's mind, not just their body. If there's nothing to base that on, you're wasting your time.

What do women use as a prize to seduce men ?

Maybe if men keep running into this problem. Sex being used as reward/punishment. They are dating the wrong kind of women, and need to figure out why they are attracted to this quality (not all women do this you know).

I think there's a question of a self-fulfilling prophecy here too. If you keep having the same experience, is it that every woman (or man) you are attracted to is that wrong for you or are you doing something to cause the problem? Could be either, or both.

 

[goldcatt]

no--the question is what is the number one thing that women use to seduce a man ?

That's my whole point. Our bodies of course, that's the ultimate goal of any seduction isn't it? But the real key to a good seduction lies in making it something so desirable for him, personally, individually, that it's an experience he either can't pass up or will never forget - preferably both. There is no one set answer.

obviously there are as many answers as there are men and women but I'm only speaking in very general. Shadow pointed out that sex can also be used as a means to an end and not the whole purpose for seduction.

If we're talking about seduction then let's get the terms clear. Seduction per se is a deliberate play to get somebody in bed and have the time of their lives. Period.

Now if you're talking about women OR men who use sex as a weapon, that's a totally different story.

 

[dilloduck]

What do women use as a prize to seduce men ?

Maybe if men keep running into this problem. Sex being used as reward/punishment. They are dating the wrong kind of women, and need to figure out why they are attracted to this quality (not all women do this you know).

I think there's a question of a self-fulfilling prophecy here too. If you keep having the same experience, is it that every woman (or man) you are attracted to is that wrong for you or are you doing something to cause the problem? Could be either, or both.

people are great for using tools that used that worked at one time and and then being frustrated when they don't work at other times. We're really not all that enlightened

 

[Shadow]

What do women use as a prize to seduce men ?

Maybe if men keep running into this problem. Sex being used as reward/punishment. They are dating the wrong kind of women, and need to figure out why they are attracted to this quality (not all women do this you know).

Interesting---then some women use sex to seduce men to ---?

Depends on the woman,not all women are the same.

Lots of women use sex to bond emotionally with their partner. But,that doesn't mean they aren't willing to make the effort so the man feels needed,desired or loved too. Yes, some women do use sex as a weapon..but not all of them do. On the flip side...some men just expect sex,without investing anything into the relationship. That is just as bad IMO.