Ruminations on the Course of Humanity

[PoliticalChic]

Religion is the reason why human life has a value. It is because man was created in God’s image.

The secular can give no reason why human life should and does have value.

This is not the same as saying that secular folks don’t value life…but rather that secular belief cannot identify, point to, the feature of their belief system that requires human life to have said value….

Instead, the lodestone for secular belief is progress….and if millions have to be sacrificed to proceed toward the goal that they envision, so be it.

For Marx, it was material that formed the basis for human activity.
“Marxism reduced man to his animal wants and material needs….Marxism was a downward step from the human to the animal- a descent from civilization into barbarism, which is to say, from the worship of God to the worship of material things.” Berman, “Terror and Liberalism,” p. 79.


It is the most despicable of lies to claim that religion has been responsible for more murder than any other concept or idea in history. The truth is that communism is the murder and slaughter champion, if the term champion is appropriate here.

One might argue that this is because of the use of technology to kill vast numbers at once. Again, untrue…in Cambodia, for example, million were killed, one by one, with sharpened sticks or axes. And communism is the fulcrum.


Why is it that far too few are aware that communism is the most evil concept ever devised, and the necessary reason for mass murder? Because teachers are on the left, academic historians are on the left, textbooks are based on leftist perspective. And the left needs to disguise the reach, aims and results of communism, or, heaven forfend, the young might begin to see the connections to evil.

 

[Montrovant]

A secular reason for human life to have value : if we value others' lives, they in turn should value our lives. Sort of an expansion of the golden rule concept.

I disagree that communism the is 'most evil concept ever devised'. It's application (or misapplication) may have resulted in death, but the idea in and of itself is not evil.

As far as what single thing has caused the most deaths in history, that's debatable, difficult to determine, and very subjective. Were those who killed based on religious belief truly following the strictures of that religion? Were the communist regimes who killed so many truly following the tenets of communism?

I would blame the violence that is still such a strong part of human nature rather than worry much about whether communism or religion have a higher kill count.

I'm not sure why you decided to put these subjects together in one post

 

[PoliticalChic]

A secular reason for human life to have value : if we value others' lives, they in turn should value our lives. Sort of an expansion of the golden rule concept.

I disagree that communism the is 'most evil concept ever devised'. It's application (or misapplication) may have resulted in death, but the idea in and of itself is not evil.

As far as what single thing has caused the most deaths in history, that's debatable, difficult to determine, and very subjective. Were those who killed based on religious belief truly following the strictures of that religion? Were the communist regimes who killed so many truly following the tenets of communism?

I would blame the violence that is still such a strong part of human nature rather than worry much about whether communism or religion have a higher kill count.

I'm not sure why you decided to put these subjects together in one post

Let me see if I can explain the relationship...

The seminal event in the evolution of the philosophies of contemprary politics began with the French Revoution.
While it took its cue from the American, it was very different...it threw off the oppression of the monarchy, but, more significantly, the oppression of the church.

But with the revolt against the church came a revolt against religion itself...and an attempt to replace it with a religion of reason, technology and science...

In "The Rebel," Albert Camus found the starting point in Western civilization, the urge to rebel. . The Western urge to rebel, coming out of the French Revolution, mutated quickly into several cults of death and mayhem. No matter the particular movement, there were two key conditions in all: 1. it was based on a submission to a central authority, the total state, and 2. it was based on the idea of one, instead of many.

Revolutionary descendents of Rousseau knew that they had to exterminate every trace of Christianity from the public agenda. Mussolini wrote in 1919 “Two religions are today contending…for sway in the world- the black and the red.”

So, the two brackets of politics are the church, and the totalist philosophies, communism, fascism, national socialism, phalanage, progressivism.

 

[G.T.]

I value human life and I have no Religion.

 

[konradv]

How could communism, a concept only 100+ years old, be the "champion" over religion, a concept with us since the dawn of history? You seem to be ignoring fascism in your analysis. In truth political killings are a result of totalitarianism, not the particular underlying philosophy.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Mankind values life because mankind understands death is forever; religion, the belief that 'life' goes on after death is a rationalization by mankind alone (as far as we know) to

 

[PoliticalChic]

I value human life and I have no Religion.

From the OP:
"The secular can give no reason why human life should and does have value.

This is not the same as saying that secular folks don’t value life…but rather that secular belief cannot identify, point to, the feature of their belief system that requires human life to have said value…."

 

[Wry Catcher]

A secular reason for human life to have value : if we value others' lives, they in turn should value our lives. Sort of an expansion of the golden rule concept.

I disagree that communism the is 'most evil concept ever devised'. It's application (or misapplication) may have resulted in death, but the idea in and of itself is not evil.

As far as what single thing has caused the most deaths in history, that's debatable, difficult to determine, and very subjective. Were those who killed based on religious belief truly following the strictures of that religion? Were the communist regimes who killed so many truly following the tenets of communism?

I would blame the violence that is still such a strong part of human nature rather than worry much about whether communism or religion have a higher kill count.

I'm not sure why you decided to put these subjects together in one post

Let me see if I can explain the relationship...

The seminal event in the evolution of the philosopies of contemprary politics began with the French Revoution.
While it took its cue from the American, it was very different...it threw off the oppression of the monarchy, but, more significantly, the oppression of the church.

But with the revolt against the church came a revolt against religion itself...and an attempt to replace it with a religion of reason, technology and science...

In "The Rebel," Albert Camus found the starting point in Western civilization, the urge to rebel. . The Western urge to rebel, coming out of the French Revolution, mutated quickly into several cults of death and mayhem. No matter the particular movement, there were two key conditions in all: 1. it was based on a submission to a central authority, the total state, and 2. it was based on the idea of one, instead of many.

Revolutionary descendents of Rousseau knew that they had to exterminate every trace of Christianity from the public agenda. Mussolini wrote in 1919 “Two religions are today contending…for sway in the world- the black and the red.”

So, the two brackets of politics are the church, and the totalist philosophies, communism, fascism, national socialism, phalanage, progressivism.

What is "phalanage"?

Having read and written papers on Camus I dismiss your effort to introduce his ideas on this forum; the manner in which you did so is absurd.

Mankind embraces religion because mankind fears death. The belief that 'life' goes on after death is a rationalization by mankind alone (as far as we know) to assuage the fear of the unknown and is exploited by those who want power and control over the masses.

Sisyphus understands and lives for the moment, nothing more.

["The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." (Bertrand Russell)]

 

[JBeukema]

Religion is the reason why human life has a value. It is because man was created in God’s image.

So, which is it? Because of religion or because of what your religion tells you?

You really think Buddhists, Shinto, Hindu, and the Apache place no value on human life?

You'd place no value on human life if you learned you weren't a photocopy of a magical sky daddy?

You're really not a very good person, are you?

Instead, the lodestone for secular belief is progress….and if millions have to be sacrificed to proceed toward the goal that they envision, so be it.

Isn't it your religion which justifies 99% of those who ever lived ending up inn a lake of fire for eternity as 'necessary' for those who chose' to be able to spend eternity on their knees worshiping your god?

You really are a piece of shit, aren't you?

For Marx, it was material that formed the basis for human activity.
“Marxism reduced man to his animal wants and material needs….Marxism was a downward step from the human to the animal- a descent from civilization into barbarism, which is to say, from the worship of God to the worship of material things.” Berman, “Terror and Liberalism,” p. 79.

The entire value system behind capitalism is revealed in the origin of the very word itself.

The lexical roots of the word capital reveal roots in the trade and ownership of animals. The Latin root of the word capital is capitalis, from the proto-Indo-European Tkaput, which means "head", this being how wealth was measured. The more heads of cattle, the better. The terms chattel (meaning goods, animals, or slaves) and even cattle itself also derive from this same origin. The lexical connections between animal trade and economics can also be seen in the names of many currencies and words about money: fee (faihu), rupee (rupya), buck (a deerskin), pecuniary (pecu), stock (livestock), and peso (pecu or pashu) all derive from animal-trade origins.

To this day, the bourgeoisie reveal the value they place on human lives every day, with such delightful phrases as 'I buy and sell people like you' and the very nature of wage slavery, by which a man must sell his own self in order to purchase the right to continue his existence.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How could communism, a concept only 100+ years old, be the "champion" over religion, a concept with us since the dawn of history? You seem to be ignoring fascism in your analysis. In truth political killings are a result of totalitarianism, not the particular underlying philosophy.

1. “The Black Book of Communism states its purpose as being "to paint a true picture of all the criminal aspects of the Communist world, from individual assassinations to mass murder." It devotes more than 200 of its 856 pages to the Soviet Union, about which it gives an indispensable history; but there is in turn a detailed chronicling of events in Spain, Poland, Central and Southeastern Europe, China, North Korea, Laos, Cambodia, Latin America, Africa and Afghanistan…”

In addition, the Black Book continues the process of refuting the premise, prominently advanced by Khrushchev, that Communism in Soviet Russia started out benignly, but turned vicious with Stalin. Lenin, we are reminded, put into place all of the apparatus of the terror-state. It helps to read Lenin's 1918 telegram in which he ordered the hanging of 100 kulaks: "I mean hang publicly, so that people see it... Do all this so that for miles around people see it, understand it, tremble."
The Black Book of Communism
The Journal of Social, Political, and Economic Studies; Washington; Fall 2000; Dwight D Murphey;

2. From “The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression,” which is a compilation of research edited by French scholar Stephane Courtois, totals over 100 million victims of Communist murder during the 20th Century.

3. Take as a counter example, the Inquisition, what, over almost 200 years accounted for approximately 3000 victims. There is no comparable example to communism.
see Answers.com - How many people died from the Inquisition

4. "You seem to be ignoring fascism in your analysis..."
The totalists philosophies include communism, fascism, the phalange, national socialism(nazis), and 'totalism lite,' progressivism and liberalism.

If you are saying that it is the totalists that should be the comparison, you are totally (pun intended) correct. The number is, therefore, magnified in said proportions!


5.The French Revolution, the first fascist movement(The political terms "Right" and "Left" were born in the French Revolution, when two different revolutionary factions took seats in the French National Assembly's hall: the Girondins on the right wing and the Jacobins on the left wing.):
1. It was totalitarian, nationalist, conspiratorial, and populist, the origin of the revolutionary tradition of the left.
2. Produced the first modern dictators, Robespierre and Napoleon
3. Based on the premise that the nation had to be ruled by an enlightened avant-garde who represented the ‘general will.’
4. Jacobin mentality made the revolutionaries more savage and cruel than the king they replaced. Some 50,000 died in the Terror (1793-1794)
5. [Robespierre] “is the prototype of a particularly odious kind of evildoer: the ideologue who believes that reason and morality are on the side of his butcheries. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot are of the same mold. They are the characteristic scourges of humanity in modern times, but Robespierre has a good claim to being the first.” Why Robespierre Chose Terror by John Kekes, City Journal Spring 2006

6. Robespierre: We must exterminate all our enemies.
7. Robespierre: “The people is always worth more than individuals…The people is sublime, but individuals are weak” or expendable. http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf, p. 20

There is, in Berman's book, 'Terrorism and Liberalism," a fascinating comparison of all of the totalitarian movements, and how they all come from the same ur-mythology.

 

[JBeukema]

There are preachers of death: and the earth is full of those to whom desistance from life must be preached.
Full is the earth of the superfluous; marred is life by the many-too-many. May they be decoyed out of this life by the "life eternal"!
"The yellow ones": so are called the preachers of death, or "the black ones." But I will show them unto you in other colours besides.
There are the terrible ones who carry about in themselves the beast of prey, and have no choice except lusts or self-laceration. And even their lusts are self-laceration.
They have not yet become men, those terrible ones: may they preach desistance from life, and pass away themselves!
There are the spiritually consumptive ones: hardly are they born when they begin to die, and long for doctrines of lassitude and renunciation.
They would fain be dead, and we should approve of their wish! Let us beware of awakening those dead ones, and of damaging those living coffins!
They meet an invalid, or an old man, or a corpse—and immediately they say: "Life is refuted!"
But they only are refuted, and their eye, which seeth only one aspect of existence.
Shrouded in thick melancholy, and eager for the little casualties that bring death: thus do they wait, and clench their teeth.
Or else, they grasp at sweetmeats, and mock at their childishness thereby: they cling to their straw of life, and mock at their still clinging to it.
Their wisdom speaketh thus: "A fool, he who remaineth alive; but so far are we fools! And that is the foolishest thing in life!"
"Life is only suffering": so say others, and lie not. Then see to it that ye cease! See to it that the life ceaseth which is only suffering!
And let this be the teaching of your virtue: "Thou shalt slay thyself! Thou shalt steal away from thyself!"—
"Lust is sin,"—so say some who preach death—"let us go apart and beget no children!"
"Giving birth is troublesome,"—say others—"why still give birth? One beareth only the unfortunate!" And they also are preachers of death.
"Pity is necessary,"—so saith a third party. "Take what I have! Take what I am! So much less doth life bind me!"
Were they consistently pitiful, then would they make their neighbours sick of life. To be wicked—that would be their true goodness.
But they want to be rid of life; what care they if they bind others still faster with their chains and gifts!—
And ye also, to whom life is rough labour and disquiet, are ye not very tired of life? Are ye not very ripe for the sermon of death?
All ye to whom rough labour is dear, and the rapid, new, and strange—ye put up with yourselves badly; your diligence is flight, and the will to self-forgetfulness.
If ye believed more in life, then would ye devote yourselves less to the momentary. But for waiting, ye have not enough of capacity in you- nor even for idling!
Everywhere resoundeth the voices of those who preach death; and the earth is full of those to whom death hath to be preached.
Or "life eternal"; it is all the same to me—if only they pass away quickly!—
Thus spake Zarathustra.

The Preachers of Death < Thus Spoke Zarathustra < Friedrich Nietzsche <4umi word
​

 

[JBeukema]

So, the two brackets of politics are the church, and the totalist philosophies, communism, fascism, national socialism, phalanage, progressivism.

What greater totalitarianism is there than your religion? You dream of a heaven ruled by an autocratic dictator in which all dissent is met with the cruelest and most permanent of suppression. The most fortunate among your number are 144,000 in number, and their pleasure is to serve at the feet of this tyrant. You surrender the entirety of your will and intellect to the Law you find written in old books and dare not question what you are told- even going so far as to justify genocide because the tyrant hast commanded it and it must therefore be right.

The Christian faith is naturally antagonistic to liberty.

 

[JBeukema]

The French Revolution, the first fascist movement

 

[JBeukema]

Does PC ever think for herself, or is posting bulletins from a review of some right-wingers book all the thought she's capable of?

 

[PoliticalChic]

A secular reason for human life to have value : if we value others' lives, they in turn should value our lives. Sort of an expansion of the golden rule concept.

I disagree that communism the is 'most evil concept ever devised'. It's application (or misapplication) may have resulted in death, but the idea in and of itself is not evil.

As far as what single thing has caused the most deaths in history, that's debatable, difficult to determine, and very subjective. Were those who killed based on religious belief truly following the strictures of that religion? Were the communist regimes who killed so many truly following the tenets of communism?

I would blame the violence that is still such a strong part of human nature rather than worry much about whether communism or religion have a higher kill count.

I'm not sure why you decided to put these subjects together in one post

Let me see if I can explain the relationship...

The seminal event in the evolution of the philosopies of contemprary politics began with the French Revoution.
While it took its cue from the American, it was very different...it threw off the oppression of the monarchy, but, more significantly, the oppression of the church.

But with the revolt against the church came a revolt against religion itself...and an attempt to replace it with a religion of reason, technology and science...

In "The Rebel," Albert Camus found the starting point in Western civilization, the urge to rebel. . The Western urge to rebel, coming out of the French Revolution, mutated quickly into several cults of death and mayhem. No matter the particular movement, there were two key conditions in all: 1. it was based on a submission to a central authority, the total state, and 2. it was based on the idea of one, instead of many.

Revolutionary descendents of Rousseau knew that they had to exterminate every trace of Christianity from the public agenda. Mussolini wrote in 1919 “Two religions are today contending…for sway in the world- the black and the red.”

So, the two brackets of politics are the church, and the totalist philosophies, communism, fascism, national socialism, phalanage, progressivism.

What is "phalanage"?

Having read and written papers on Camus I dismiss your effort to introduce his ideas on this forum; the manner in which you did so is absurd.

Mankind embraces religion because mankind fears death. The belief that 'life' goes on after death is a rationalization by mankind alone (as far as we know) to assuage the fear of the unknown and is exploited by those who want power and control over the masses.

Sisyphus understands and lives for the moment, nothing more.

["The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." (Bertrand Russell)]

Franco's Spanish Fascists were known as the Phalange, the Warriors of Christ the King. Phalange from the word phalanx, brigade.

And, as for Camus...
From chapter two, "Terror and Liberalism,":

Albert Camus, in ‘The Rebel,’ attempted to find the traits in modern civilization that lead to totalitarianism, and its horrors....Camus’s intuitive realization: totalitarianism and terrorism are one in the same, and, so, if we discover the roots of totalitarianism, we discover the roots of terrorism!...The starting point for Camus is an innate impulse to rebel....Camus invoked the myth of Prometheus whose radical action, stealing Zeus’ fire, was an actual rebellion. And it is the urge to rebel that represented the basis for human progress, and of freedom itself. But rather than representing the very best of modes, rebellion, Camus, conceded, also combined an element of murder and suicide....Camus saw that this element began early, in the French Revolution, with Saint-Just, a leader during the Reign of Terror, and a mutation of the urge to rebel into the various totalitarian movements.

Your statement "Mankind embraces religion because mankind fears death." explains nothing, has no bearing in this discussion.
The importance of religion, here, is that it give the value to human life, beginning in the idea of man creatd in God's image.....as opposed to the materialism of communism, which shares no such concept.

The 'state' or the 'collective' is not human, and once it is pre-eminent, the deaths of untold millions for its assumption is acceptable.

 

[dilloduck]

Where did we get this notion that religious people are only concerned about what happens to them after they die ? I see many using as a tool to make their lives more fulfilling and meaningful. What is the ultimate goal of secularism ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_Here_Now_(book)

 

[G.T.]

I value human life and I have no Religion.

From the OP:
"The secular can give no reason why human life should and does have value.

This is not the same as saying that secular folks don’t value life…but rather that secular belief cannot identify, point to, the feature of their belief system that requires human life to have said value…."

I can't give a reason why I value human life?>

Holy projection.

I know why I value human life. Thanks.

 

[del]

"Religion is for those who are afraid of going to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been there”

r.g. ingersoll

 

[PoliticalChic]

Where did we get this notion that religious people are only concerned about what happens to them after they die ? I see many using as a tool to make their lives more fulfilling and meaningful. What is the ultimate goal of secularism ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_Here_Now_(book)

I believe that the goal is to perform what God is said to have performed: creat Man. And to do so in their image.

1. The Constitution commemorates our revolution, and, as Madison states in the ‘Federalist,’ is the greatest of all reflections on human nature…human beings are not angels.”
a. Humans are not perfectible, but are capable of self government. The republican form of government presupposes this idea of humans. Our government is not a controlling government, but must itself be controlled: by the Constitution. Time and again the founders have proclaimed that our form of government is meant for moral, religious people.

The concept of American exceptionalism, itself, supposes that we follow the precepts of religion, and therefore, God takes a hand in our fate.

b. The Communist Revolution is based on the idea of transforming human nature. “The New Soviet man or New Soviet person (Russian: &#1085;&#1086;&#1074;&#1099;&#1081; &#1089;&#1086;&#1074;&#1077;&#1090;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;&#1081; &#1095;&#1077;&#1083;&#1086;&#1074;&#1077;&#1082, as postulated by the ideologists of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, was an archetype of a person with certain qualities that were said to be emerging as dominant among all citizens of the Soviet Union, irrespective of the country's long-standing cultural, ethnic, and linguistic diversity, creating a single Soviet people, Soviet nation.[1]

Leon Trotsky wrote in his Literature and Revolution [2] :

"The human species, the sluggish Homo sapiens, will once again enter the stage of radical reconstruction and become in his own hands the object of the most complex methods of artificial selection and psychophysical training... Man will make it his goal...to create a higher sociobiological type, a superman, if you will"
New Soviet man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

c. “Culture is a stubborn opponent. The Soviet Union attempted to create the New Soviet Man with gulags, psychiatric hospitals, and firing squads for seventy years and succeeded only in producing a more corrupt culture.” Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 198

d. Progressives have a similar view: human nature is plastic; politics is a means of perfecting man!

e. In 1969, Hillary Rodham gave the student commencement address at Wellesley in which she said that “ for too long our leaders have used politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible….We’re not interested in social reconstruction; it’s human reconstruction.”
Hillary D. Rodham's Student Commencement Speech 1969


"What is the ultimate goal of secularism?"
By their hubris, they think to become God...but instead, in their totalist philosophies, can only manage to be Frankenstein.

 

[G.T.]

I think I know why you're so fucked up. You read. A lot. But all you read is propoganda.