Ruminations on the Course of Humanity

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by PoliticalChic, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Religion is the reason why human life has a value. It is because man was created in God’s image.

    The secular can give no reason why human life should and does have value.

    This is not the same as saying that secular folks don’t value life…but rather that secular belief cannot identify, point to, the feature of their belief system that requires human life to have said value….

    Instead, the lodestone for secular belief is progress….and if millions have to be sacrificed to proceed toward the goal that they envision, so be it.

    For Marx, it was material that formed the basis for human activity.
    “Marxism reduced man to his animal wants and material needs….Marxism was a downward step from the human to the animal- a descent from civilization into barbarism, which is to say, from the worship of God to the worship of material things.” Berman, “Terror and Liberalism,” p. 79.


    It is the most despicable of lies to claim that religion has been responsible for more murder than any other concept or idea in history. The truth is that communism is the murder and slaughter champion, if the term champion is appropriate here.

    One might argue that this is because of the use of technology to kill vast numbers at once. Again, untrue…in Cambodia, for example, million were killed, one by one, with sharpened sticks or axes. And communism is the fulcrum.


    Why is it that far too few are aware that communism is the most evil concept ever devised, and the necessary reason for mass murder? Because teachers are on the left, academic historians are on the left, textbooks are based on leftist perspective. And the left needs to disguise the reach, aims and results of communism, or, heaven forfend, the young might begin to see the connections to evil.
     
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  2. Montrovant
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    Montrovant Fuzzy bears!

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    A secular reason for human life to have value : if we value others' lives, they in turn should value our lives. Sort of an expansion of the golden rule concept.

    I disagree that communism the is 'most evil concept ever devised'. It's application (or misapplication) may have resulted in death, but the idea in and of itself is not evil.

    As far as what single thing has caused the most deaths in history, that's debatable, difficult to determine, and very subjective. Were those who killed based on religious belief truly following the strictures of that religion? Were the communist regimes who killed so many truly following the tenets of communism?

    I would blame the violence that is still such a strong part of human nature rather than worry much about whether communism or religion have a higher kill count.

    I'm not sure why you decided to put these subjects together in one post :)
     
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  3. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Let me see if I can explain the relationship...

    The seminal event in the evolution of the philosophies of contemprary politics began with the French Revoution.
    While it took its cue from the American, it was very different...it threw off the oppression of the monarchy, but, more significantly, the oppression of the church.

    But with the revolt against the church came a revolt against religion itself...and an attempt to replace it with a religion of reason, technology and science...

    In "The Rebel," Albert Camus found the starting point in Western civilization, the urge to rebel. . The Western urge to rebel, coming out of the French Revolution, mutated quickly into several cults of death and mayhem. No matter the particular movement, there were two key conditions in all: 1. it was based on a submission to a central authority, the total state, and 2. it was based on the idea of one, instead of many.

    Revolutionary descendents of Rousseau knew that they had to exterminate every trace of Christianity from the public agenda. Mussolini wrote in 1919 “Two religions are today contending…for sway in the world- the black and the red.”

    So, the two brackets of politics are the church, and the totalist philosophies, communism, fascism, national socialism, phalanage, progressivism.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  4. G.T.
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    I value human life and I have no Religion.
     
  5. konradv
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    konradv Gold Member

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    How could communism, a concept only 100+ years old, be the "champion" over religion, a concept with us since the dawn of history? You seem to be ignoring fascism in your analysis. In truth political killings are a result of totalitarianism, not the particular underlying philosophy.
     
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  6. Wry Catcher
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    Mankind values life because mankind understands death is forever; religion, the belief that 'life' goes on after death is a rationalization by mankind alone (as far as we know) to
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  7. PoliticalChic
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    From the OP:
    "The secular can give no reason why human life should and does have value.

    This is not the same as saying that secular folks don’t value life…but rather that secular belief cannot identify, point to, the feature of their belief system that requires human life to have said value…."
     
  8. Wry Catcher
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    What is "phalanage"?

    Having read and written papers on Camus I dismiss your effort to introduce his ideas on this forum; the manner in which you did so is absurd.

    Mankind embraces religion because mankind fears death. The belief that 'life' goes on after death is a rationalization by mankind alone (as far as we know) to assuage the fear of the unknown and is exploited by those who want power and control over the masses.

    Sisyphus understands and lives for the moment, nothing more.

    ["The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." (Bertrand Russell)]
     
  9. JBeukema
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    So, which is it? Because of religion or because of what your religion tells you?

    You really think Buddhists, Shinto, Hindu, and the Apache place no value on human life?

    You'd place no value on human life if you learned you weren't a photocopy of a magical sky daddy?

    You're really not a very good person, are you?
    Isn't it your religion which justifies 99% of those who ever lived ending up inn a lake of fire for eternity as 'necessary' for those who chose' to be able to spend eternity on their knees worshiping your god?

    You really are a piece of shit, aren't you?
    The entire value system behind capitalism is revealed in the origin of the very word itself.

    To this day, the bourgeoisie reveal the value they place on human lives every day, with such delightful phrases as 'I buy and sell people like you' and the very nature of wage slavery, by which a man must sell his own self in order to purchase the right to continue his existence.
     
  10. PoliticalChic
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    1. “The Black Book of Communism states its purpose as being "to paint a true picture of all the criminal aspects of the Communist world, from individual assassinations to mass murder." It devotes more than 200 of its 856 pages to the Soviet Union, about which it gives an indispensable history; but there is in turn a detailed chronicling of events in Spain, Poland, Central and Southeastern Europe, China, North Korea, Laos, Cambodia, Latin America, Africa and Afghanistan…”

    In addition, the Black Book continues the process of refuting the premise, prominently advanced by Khrushchev, that Communism in Soviet Russia started out benignly, but turned vicious with Stalin. Lenin, we are reminded, put into place all of the apparatus of the terror-state. It helps to read Lenin's 1918 telegram in which he ordered the hanging of 100 kulaks: "I mean hang publicly, so that people see it... Do all this so that for miles around people see it, understand it, tremble."
    The Black Book of Communism
    The Journal of Social, Political, and Economic Studies; Washington; Fall 2000; Dwight D Murphey;

    2. From “The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression,” which is a compilation of research edited by French scholar Stephane Courtois, totals over 100 million victims of Communist murder during the 20th Century.

    3. Take as a counter example, the Inquisition, what, over almost 200 years accounted for approximately 3000 victims. There is no comparable example to communism.
    see Answers.com - How many people died from the Inquisition

    4. "You seem to be ignoring fascism in your analysis..."
    The totalists philosophies include communism, fascism, the phalange, national socialism(nazis), and 'totalism lite,' progressivism and liberalism.

    If you are saying that it is the totalists that should be the comparison, you are totally (pun intended) correct. The number is, therefore, magnified in said proportions!


    5.The French Revolution, the first fascist movement(The political terms "Right" and "Left" were born in the French Revolution, when two different revolutionary factions took seats in the French National Assembly's hall: the Girondins on the right wing and the Jacobins on the left wing.):
    1. It was totalitarian, nationalist, conspiratorial, and populist, the origin of the revolutionary tradition of the left.
    2. Produced the first modern dictators, Robespierre and Napoleon
    3. Based on the premise that the nation had to be ruled by an enlightened avant-garde who represented the ‘general will.’
    4. Jacobin mentality made the revolutionaries more savage and cruel than the king they replaced. Some 50,000 died in the Terror (1793-1794)
    5. [Robespierre] “is the prototype of a particularly odious kind of evildoer: the ideologue who believes that reason and morality are on the side of his butcheries. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot are of the same mold. They are the characteristic scourges of humanity in modern times, but Robespierre has a good claim to being the first.” Why Robespierre Chose Terror by John Kekes, City Journal Spring 2006

    6. Robespierre: We must exterminate all our enemies.
    7. Robespierre: “The people is always worth more than individuals…The people is sublime, but individuals are weak” or expendable. http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf, p. 20

    There is, in Berman's book, 'Terrorism and Liberalism," a fascinating comparison of all of the totalitarian movements, and how they all come from the same ur-mythology.
     

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