Rules For Traditionals: How People In Wedding Trades Can Defend Themselves

[NYcarbineer]

Yeah, doesn't work that way when it comes to a wedding cake. Wedding cakes are now for gay people as well. If you can't deal with that, close, you won't be missed.

That's called fascism, asshole. No one is surprised that you support it.

Once again- you confuse following the law with 'fascism'.

It's the content of the law that constitutes fascism. You seem to believe it's impossible to have fascist laws. Here's a clue for you, numskull, the Nazis passed laws for everything they did, even sending Jews to concentration camps.

It boggles my mind that you turds are so stupid and brainwashed that you don't understand the distinction between law and justice. A good little toady of the all powerful state believes them to be the same thing, just like you.

Ahhh, another Godwin moment.

I am surprised.

As I've explained many times in the past, "Godwin's law" is bullshit. It was conceived by a liberal to protect liberals from the inevitable comparisons that were bound to be made between their beliefs and the beliefs of Nazis.

It was the Nazis who enabled discrimination against German Jews,

much like you RWnuts want to enable discrimination against American gays.

 

[martybegan]

How about we compromise and let anti-gay marriage businesses acquire a special permit to deny gay weddings catering,
and all they need do is display the sign prominently on the front of their business, and in all their advertising and any websites they use, that they don't serve gays?

lol

The sign should read:

DUE TO OUR DEVOTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST, WE REFUSE TO TREAT OUR NEIGHBORS AS WE WOULD HAVE OURSELVES BE TREATED, THEREFORE WE WILL NOT BAKE CAKES FOR SAME SEX WEDDINGS. PRAISE GOD.

As long as you walk around with a sign saying "I support ruining people because I disagree with them (but only when government does the dirty work for me).

How does a customer, cash in hand, ruin a business? Seems that the business is shooting itself in the foot and claiming victimization at the hands of others.

Then let the market handle it, and keep government out of it. Its not the customer, its the $150k fine the government imposes that ruins it.

Actually it would be the business decision to break the law that ends up ruining a business.

Happens fairly regularly when business' violate zoning laws, health laws, hiring laws, oh and in this case- public accommodation laws.

Nice try to distance yourself from this, but supporting the law in this case means you support ruining people over their religious beliefs. Just because you refuse to get your hands dirty and let government handle your oppression doesn't mean you don't own it.

 

[martybegan]

"The let them post their intentions" compromise is a ruse by your side, and you know it.

Quick question. Do you support a $150k fine on a baker for not baking a cake?

It's not a fine for not baking a cake. It's a fine for blanket discrimination.

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You didn't answer the question.

 

[martybegan]

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You mean you admire Nazis who persecute bakers for insisting on their First Amendment rights.

You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

I respect anyone who stands by their convictions

If your hatred is worth more than $150k then you are getting what you signed up for

As I said: You're a fucking Nazi. That's all you proved.

You know nothing about Nazis or freedom. Freedom does not mean you can discriminate. Discrimination erodes freedom.

So you can only have freedom if it agrees with YOUR concept of freedom.

Just admit you are on the side of government oppression. It will be liberating.

 

[rightwinger]

It's not a fine for not baking a cake. It's a fine for blanket discrimination.

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You didn't answer the question.

Apparently, I did

 

[bripat9643]

BRIPAT9643 SAID:

“Freedom means there's no Gaystapo telling you who you can do business with. Freedom means the absence of government initiated coercion. You're claiming freedom is where government runs your business and your life.”

Wrong.

Public accommodations laws are necessary, proper, and Constitutional, as authorized by the Commerce Clause; consequently there is no 'coercion,' no one is being 'forced' to do anything, and no freedom is being 'denied.'

Wrong. They are an infringement on your rights. The commerce clause doesn't authorize the federal government to regulate private businesses except in the case of a transaction across state lines, and transfer of funds is the only thing it allows the government to regulate.

You are welcome to your interpretation, but the courts have said otherwise

What the courts say seldom has anything to do with justice or rights. The courts are there to enforce government policy, not justice.

 

[martybegan]

Semantics. not baking the cake is the original cause of the fine.

Again, the question, do you support it or not? Does not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple really require $150k in fines as punishment?

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You didn't answer the question.

Apparently, I did

No you did a snarky non-answer.

The question is, is not serving a wedding cake to a gay couple worth a $150k fine?

 

[bripat9643]

That's called fascism, asshole. No one is surprised that you support it.

Once again- you confuse following the law with 'fascism'.

It's the content of the law that constitutes fascism. You seem to believe it's impossible to have fascist laws. Here's a clue for you, numskull, the Nazis passed laws for everything they did, even sending Jews to concentration camps.

It boggles my mind that you turds are so stupid and brainwashed that you don't understand the distinction between law and justice. A good little toady of the all powerful state believes them to be the same thing, just like you.

Ahhh, another Godwin moment.

I am surprised.

As I've explained many times in the past, "Godwin's law" is bullshit. It was conceived by a liberal to protect liberals from the inevitable comparisons that were bound to be made between their beliefs and the beliefs of Nazis.

It was the Nazis who enabled discrimination against German Jews,

much like you RWnuts want to enable discrimination against American gays.

The Nazis passed laws requiring discrimination against Jews, just as Democrats passed laws requiring discrimination against blacks.

 

[NLT]

why are gays so intolerant?

 

[martybegan]

That's called fascism, asshole. No one is surprised that you support it.

Once again- you confuse following the law with 'fascism'.

It's the content of the law that constitutes fascism. You seem to believe it's impossible to have fascist laws. Here's a clue for you, numskull, the Nazis passed laws for everything they did, even sending Jews to concentration camps.

It boggles my mind that you turds are so stupid and brainwashed that you don't understand the distinction between law and justice. A good little toady of the all powerful state believes them to be the same thing, just like you.

Ahhh, another Godwin moment.

I am surprised.

As I've explained many times in the past, "Godwin's law" is bullshit. It was conceived by a liberal to protect liberals from the inevitable comparisons that were bound to be made between their beliefs and the beliefs of Nazis.

It was the Nazis who enabled discrimination against German Jews,

much like you RWnuts want to enable discrimination against American gays.

Your side is advocating government persecution of people for their beliefs over something as trivial as a wedding cake. All the enabling is on your side this time.

Its not about fairness to you, its about punishing those who disagree with you, and like a coward, using government to do it instead of doing it yourself.

Progressives are always tough guys/girls when authority is behind them.

 

[rightwinger]

disingenuous reframing?

it is about the sale of a cake.

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You didn't answer the question.

Apparently, I did

No you did a snarky non-answer.

The question is, is not serving a wedding cake to a gay couple worth a $150k fine?

Maybe it is not high enough

 

[martybegan]

Of which not wanting to leads in this case to government fines.

Again, do you support fining a baker $150k for not baking a cake?

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You didn't answer the question.

Apparently, I did

No you did a snarky non-answer.

The question is, is not serving a wedding cake to a gay couple worth a $150k fine?

Maybe it is not high enough

That confirms you are a jerk.

 

[rightwinger]

I admire any baker who is willing to pay $150k to affirm their hatred of gays

You didn't answer the question.

Apparently, I did

No you did a snarky non-answer.

The question is, is not serving a wedding cake to a gay couple worth a $150k fine?

Maybe it is not high enough

That confirms you are a jerk.

Realist

If you own a business and are informed that blatant discrimination bears a $150k fine and you think your personal hatreds are more important....then you made a choice to pay the fine

 

[martybegan]

You didn't answer the question.

Apparently, I did

No you did a snarky non-answer.

The question is, is not serving a wedding cake to a gay couple worth a $150k fine?

Maybe it is not high enough

That confirms you are a jerk.

Realist

If you own a business and are informed that blatant discrimination bears a $150k fine and you think your personal hatreds are more important....then you made a choice to pay the fine

In this situation you shouldn't have to make the choice to begin with.

 

[Nosmo King]

What business are these wedding vendors in anyway? Do they provide services to all heterosexual customers? Is servicing weddings their stock in trade?

They are in whatever business they want to be. If they want to make wedding cakes, they'll make wedding cakes. If they don't want to make one for you, they don't have to make one for you.

Is servicing a same sex wedding imperiling their immortal souls? Is that because they think they are providing a mercantile imprimatur on the ceremony? If associating with sinners is such a danger, do these puritanical wedding vendors morally vet each and every customer lest they fall into peril eternity-wise?

It doesn't matter if serving a gay wedding would make them Bill Gates, they don't want your money. They don't want to make you a cake. So move on!

Refusing services is a fundamental part of doing business. Just yesterday I refused service to 8 different clients. I hand picked the ones I would refuse service to, and when they walked in the front door I told them they would have to go somewhere else. They didn't like it, a couple tried to raise a fuss even. But at the end of the day they went somewhere else.

These vendors aren't refusing service because the same sex couples aren't wearing shirts or shoes. They are refusing because these clients are Gay. That's blanket discrimination, not selective discrimination. And it's wrong to conduct business that is open to the public that way.

You know what else is wrong? Trying to force people to do business the way you want them to. Two wrongs don't make a right. But they do make a leftwing loon.

People were forced to integrate schools, shops, lunch counters, hotels and yet none of those businesses suffered. Yes indeed. People were 'forced' to do business in a way they did not want to. Stranger than fiction, eh?

 

[Nosmo King]

Once again- you confuse following the law with 'fascism'.

It's the content of the law that constitutes fascism. You seem to believe it's impossible to have fascist laws. Here's a clue for you, numskull, the Nazis passed laws for everything they did, even sending Jews to concentration camps.

It boggles my mind that you turds are so stupid and brainwashed that you don't understand the distinction between law and justice. A good little toady of the all powerful state believes them to be the same thing, just like you.

Ahhh, another Godwin moment.

I am surprised.

As I've explained many times in the past, "Godwin's law" is bullshit. It was conceived by a liberal to protect liberals from the inevitable comparisons that were bound to be made between their beliefs and the beliefs of Nazis.

It was the Nazis who enabled discrimination against German Jews,

much like you RWnuts want to enable discrimination against American gays.

Your side is advocating government persecution of people for their beliefs over something as trivial as a wedding cake. All the enabling is on your side this time.

Its not about fairness to you, its about punishing those who disagree with you, and like a coward, using government to do it instead of doing it yourself.

Progressives are always tough guys/girls when authority is behind them.

So, let me get this straight. "Fairness" equals "Discrimination". And 'Beliefs" equals "justification".

 

[rightwinger]

Apparently, I did

No you did a snarky non-answer.

The question is, is not serving a wedding cake to a gay couple worth a $150k fine?

Maybe it is not high enough

That confirms you are a jerk.

Realist

If you own a business and are informed that blatant discrimination bears a $150k fine and you think your personal hatreds are more important....then you made a choice to pay the fine

In this situation you shouldn't have to make the choice to begin with.

A choice of "We don't serve n*ggers here"?

I thought we settled that 50 years ago

 

[martybegan]

It's the content of the law that constitutes fascism. You seem to believe it's impossible to have fascist laws. Here's a clue for you, numskull, the Nazis passed laws for everything they did, even sending Jews to concentration camps.

It boggles my mind that you turds are so stupid and brainwashed that you don't understand the distinction between law and justice. A good little toady of the all powerful state believes them to be the same thing, just like you.

Ahhh, another Godwin moment.

I am surprised.

As I've explained many times in the past, "Godwin's law" is bullshit. It was conceived by a liberal to protect liberals from the inevitable comparisons that were bound to be made between their beliefs and the beliefs of Nazis.

It was the Nazis who enabled discrimination against German Jews,

much like you RWnuts want to enable discrimination against American gays.

Your side is advocating government persecution of people for their beliefs over something as trivial as a wedding cake. All the enabling is on your side this time.

Its not about fairness to you, its about punishing those who disagree with you, and like a coward, using government to do it instead of doing it yourself.

Progressives are always tough guys/girls when authority is behind them.

So, let me get this straight. "Fairness" equals "Discrimination". And 'Beliefs" equals "justification".

Fairness equals determining which impact is worse, two people having to go to another baker, or using government to force people to comply with something against their beliefs. In the case of Jim Crow, the side was on force, in this situation, the side is on the gay couple going somewhere else.

 

[martybegan]

No you did a snarky non-answer.

The question is, is not serving a wedding cake to a gay couple worth a $150k fine?

Maybe it is not high enough

That confirms you are a jerk.

Realist

If you own a business and are informed that blatant discrimination bears a $150k fine and you think your personal hatreds are more important....then you made a choice to pay the fine

In this situation you shouldn't have to make the choice to begin with.

A choice of "We don't serve n*ggers here"?

I thought we settled that 50 years ago

And if we would allow it today, we would all be a lot more honest with each other. Back then the force of government was firmly on the side of the segregationists, without that government force, they couldn't really survive unless they were some small niche business, or in a town entirely full of hard on racists.

 

[rightwinger]

Maybe it is not high enough

That confirms you are a jerk.

Realist

If you own a business and are informed that blatant discrimination bears a $150k fine and you think your personal hatreds are more important....then you made a choice to pay the fine

In this situation you shouldn't have to make the choice to begin with.

A choice of "We don't serve n*ggers here"?

I thought we settled that 50 years ago

And if we would allow it today, we would all be a lot more honest with each other. Back then the force of government was firmly on the side of the segregationists, without that government force, they couldn't really survive unless they were some small niche business, or in a town entirely full of hard on racists.

50 years ago we established the role of business in the public domain

Discrimination against customers you find "yucky" is not allowed