RIP Evan Sun (aged 4)

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident

Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.

No drugs, no violent movies, no broken homes, no gang members.

No consequences either. Life is cheap in the US.

RIP Evan Sun (aged 4)

But but but IF Evan Sun would never have been BORN and his Mama would have ABORTED him In Utero WOULD you also say RIP Evan Sun? No because you are fanatically Pro-Abortion on Demand you would have congratulated that woman for murdering her OWN baby as it slumbered in the womb.

"No consequences either. Life is cheap in the US."

To any one who is Pro-Abortion on Demand life is cheap and they do not CARE about life when support the most INNOCENT of life being destroyed In Utero.

This fails as both a false comparison fallacy and a red herring fallacy.

The measures proposed by those concerned with gun deaths among children are perfectly Constitutional; seeking to ‘ban’ abortion and to compel women to give birth against their will through force of law is not.

And the topic is the gun deaths of children, not abortion – your post is a failed attempt to deflect from that issue.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident

Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.

No drugs, no violent movies, no broken homes, no gang members.

No consequences either. Life is cheap in the US.

And here....

Cabbie shoots would-be armed robber, police say

A robbery suspect was shot by his intended victim Monday morning at Greenwood Manor Apartments.

City police said a local cab driver picked up the suspect on the Indiana State University campus before 10:45 a.m. Monday and took him to an apartment on 19th Street.


Officer Ryan Adamson said the suspect exited the 1st Choice cab and then pulled a gun on the cab driver, intending to rob the man. The cab driver, however, pulled out a firearm and shot the suspect, who then ran off.

Police found the suspect in the 2100 block of 231/2 Drive after he called for medical help, Adamson said. The suspect was taken to a local hospital for medical treatment of non-life-threatening injuries.

Having nothing whatsoever to do with preventing gun deaths among children.

And such anecdotal incidents have no bearing on the fact the carrying of firearms in no manner ‘decreases’ crime.

Study: Concealed Handgun Permits Don't Affect Crime Rate

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.

This thread seems to have agitated them a bit. Is it possible that deep down they have some decency and know that it is wrong ?

No, it’s yet another example of how dishonest most conservatives are about the issue.

What conservatives know is that no one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns.

But ‘guns’ is a hot-button issue for conservatives, a way to keep the base engaged and energized and to further divide the American people for some perceived partisan gain.

So to further perpetuate the unwarranted fear about ‘bans’ and ‘confiscation’ conservatives maintain their lies, and offer no viable solutions.

You lying piece of horseshit we have several people RUNNING for President that CLEARLY Stated they would ban Firearms all of them if they could,

 

[progressive hunter]

Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.

This thread seems to have agitated them a bit. Is it possible that deep down they have some decency and know that it is wrong ?

No, it’s yet another example of how dishonest most conservatives are about the issue.

What conservatives know is that no one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns.

But ‘guns’ is a hot-button issue for conservatives, a way to keep the base engaged and energized and to further divide the American people for some perceived partisan gain.

So to further perpetuate the unwarranted fear about ‘bans’ and ‘confiscation’ conservatives maintain their lies, and offer no viable solutions.

You lying piece of horseshit we have several people RUNNING for President that CLEARLY Stated they would ban Firearms all of them if they could,

lying is what clayton does best,,,

 

[2aguy]

Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.

This thread seems to have agitated them a bit. Is it possible that deep down they have some decency and know that it is wrong ?

No, it’s yet another example of how dishonest most conservatives are about the issue.

What conservatives know is that no one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns.

But ‘guns’ is a hot-button issue for conservatives, a way to keep the base engaged and energized and to further divide the American people for some perceived partisan gain.

So to further perpetuate the unwarranted fear about ‘bans’ and ‘confiscation’ conservatives maintain their lies, and offer no viable solutions.

Banning guns is the policy of every member of the democrat party leadership......you are an idiot who tries to convince other fools that pissing on our legs is actually rain....

 

[2aguy]

Yet another gun thread with nothing but deflections and lies from the right, and as usual no viable solutions.

This thread seems to have agitated them a bit. Is it possible that deep down they have some decency and know that it is wrong ?

No, it’s yet another example of how dishonest most conservatives are about the issue.

What conservatives know is that no one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns.

But ‘guns’ is a hot-button issue for conservatives, a way to keep the base engaged and energized and to further divide the American people for some perceived partisan gain.

So to further perpetuate the unwarranted fear about ‘bans’ and ‘confiscation’ conservatives maintain their lies, and offer no viable solutions.

We actually offer real solutions....you have none, which is why you morons have stopped stating your "Solutions." Every time you state your "Solutions" you are exposed as fools because nothing you propose would stop criminals or mass public shooters, which we explain in great detail and which drives you nuts.... and no, it wouldn't lower the crime rates so we should try it, either. Nothing you propose would do the slightest thing to stop criminals or mass shooters.....each thing you propose simply ratchets down the Right to own guns for normal people.....

 

[2aguy]

Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident

Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.

No drugs, no violent movies, no broken homes, no gang members.

No consequences either. Life is cheap in the US.

And here....

Cabbie shoots would-be armed robber, police say

A robbery suspect was shot by his intended victim Monday morning at Greenwood Manor Apartments.

City police said a local cab driver picked up the suspect on the Indiana State University campus before 10:45 a.m. Monday and took him to an apartment on 19th Street.


Officer Ryan Adamson said the suspect exited the 1st Choice cab and then pulled a gun on the cab driver, intending to rob the man. The cab driver, however, pulled out a firearm and shot the suspect, who then ran off.

Police found the suspect in the 2100 block of 231/2 Drive after he called for medical help, Adamson said. The suspect was taken to a local hospital for medical treatment of non-life-threatening injuries.

Having nothing whatsoever to do with preventing gun deaths among children.

And such anecdotal incidents have no bearing on the fact the carrying of firearms in no manner ‘decreases’ crime.

Study: Concealed Handgun Permits Don't Affect Crime Rate

You mean except for all of these studies.......you have one, by anti-gun zealots.......I have 18, and these are the ones with easily accessible quotes......not behind paywalls...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Bartley-Cohen-Economic-Inquiry-1998.pdf


The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

.....we find strong support for the hypothesis that the right-to-carry laws are associated with a decrease in the trend in violent crime rates.....

Paper........CCW does not increase police deaths...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Mustard-JLE-Polic-Deaths-Gun-Control.pdf

This paper uses state-level data from 1984–96 to examine how right-to-carry laws and waiting periods affect the felonious deaths of police. Some people oppose concealed weapons carry laws because they believe these laws jeopardize law enforcement officials, who risk their lives to protect the citizenry. This paper strongly rejects this contention. States that allowed law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons had a slightly higher likelihood of having a felonious police death and slightly higher police death rates prior to the law. After enactment of the right-to-carry laws, states exhibit a reduced likelihood of having a felonious police death rate and slightly lower rates of police deaths. States that implement waiting periods have slightly lower felonious police death rates both before and after the law. Allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons does not endanger the lives of officers and may help reduce their risk of being killed

========

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/tideman.pdf


Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

However, for all three crime categories the levels in years 2 and 3 after adoption of a right-to-carry law are significantly below the levels in the years before the adoption of the law, which suggests that there is generally a deterrent effect and that it takes about 1 year for this effect to emerge.

=======

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/323313

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness*




Carlisle E. Moody
College of William and Mary
Overall, right‐to‐carry concealed weapons laws tend to reduce violent crime. The effect on property crime is more uncertain. I find evidence that these laws also reduce burglary.
====
http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Helland-Tabarrok-Placebo-Laws.pdf
Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime”∗ Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok

We also find, however, that the cross equation restrictions implied by the Lott-Mustard theory are supported.
-----
Surprisingly, therefore, we conclude that there is considerable support for the hypothesis that shall-issue laws cause criminals to substitute away from crimes against persons and towards crimes against property.
===========
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Maltz.pdf


Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Our results indicated that the direction of effect of the shall-issue law on total SHR homicide rates was similar to that obtained by Lott and Mustard, although the magnitude of the effect was somewhat smaller and was statistically significant at the 7 percent level. In our analysis, which included only counties with a 1977 population of 100,000 or more, laws allowing for concealed weapons were associated with a 6.52 percent reduction in total homicides (Table 2). By comparison, Lott and Mustard found the concealed weapon dummy variable to be associated with a 7.65 percent reduction in total homicides across all counties and a 9 percent reduction in homicides when only large counties (populations of 100,000 or more) were included.43

===============

This one shows the benefits, in the billions of CCW laws...

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

COMMENTS Confirming ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî Florenz Plassmann* & John Whitley**

CONCLUSION Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5% and 2.3% for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect. For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between about $2 and $3 billion per year. The results are very similar to earlier estimates using county-level data from 1977 to 1996. We appreciate the continuing effort that Ayres and Donohue have made in discussing the impact of right-to-carry laws on crime rates. Yet we believe that both the new evidence provided by them as well as our new results show consistently that right-to-carry laws reduce crime and save lives. Unfortunately, a few simple mistakes lead Ayres and Donohue to incorrectly claim that crime rates significantly increase after right-to-carry laws are initially adopted and to misinterpret the significance of their own estimates that examined the year-to-year impact of the law.

=============

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...An-Exercise-in-Replication.proof_.revised.pdf

~ The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws on Crime: An Exercise in Replication1

Carlisle E. Moody College of William and Mary - Department of Economics, Virginia 23187, U.S.A. E-mail: [email protected] Thomas B. Marvell Justec Research, Virginia 23185, U.S.A. Paul R. Zimmerman U.S. Federal Trade Commission - Bureau of Economics, Washington, D.C., U.S.A. Fasil Alemante College of William and Mary, Virginia 23187, U.S.A.


Abstract: In an article published in 2011, Aneja, Donohue and Zhang found that shall-issue or right-to-carry (RTC) concealed weapons laws have no effect on any crime except for a positive effect on assault. This paper reports a replication of their basic findings and some corresponding robustness checks, which reveal a serious omitted variable problem. Once corrected for omitted variables, the most robust result, confirmed using both county and state data, is that RTC laws significantly reduce murder. There is no robust, consistent evidence that RTC laws have any significant effect on other violent crimes, including assault. There is some weak evidence that RTC laws increase robbery and assault while decreasing rape. Given that the victim costs of murder and rape are much higher than the costs of robbery and assault, the evidence shows that RTC laws are socially beneficial.

=======

States with lower guns = higher murder....and assault weapon ban pointless..

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504851.2013.854294

An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates
Mark Gius

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).





Taking apart ayre and donahue one....




“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..



Abstract
“Shall-issue” laws require authorities to issue concealed-weapons permits to anyone who applies, unless the applicant has a criminal record or a history of mental illness. A large number of studies indicate that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one study, an influential paper in the Stanford Law Review (2003) by Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue iii, implies that these laws lead to an increase in crime. We apply an improved version of the Ayres and Donohue method to a more extensive data set. Our analysis, as well as Ayres and Donohue’s when projected beyond a five-year span, indicates that shall-issue laws decrease crime and the costs of crime. Purists in statistical analysis object with some cause to some of methods employed both by Ayres and Donohue and by us. But our paper upgrades Ayres and Donohue, so, until the next study comes along, our paper should neutralize Ayres and Donohue’s “more guns, more crime” conclusion.

Summary and Conclusion Many articles have been published finding that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one article, by Ayres and Donohue who employ a model that combines a dummy variable with a post-law trend, claims to find that shall-issue laws increase crime. However, the only way that they can produce the result that shall-issue laws increase crime is to confine the span of analysis to five years. We show, using their own estimates, that if they had extended their analysis by one more year, they would have concluded that these laws reduce crime. Since most states with shallissue laws have had these laws on the books for more than five years, and the law will presumably remain on the books for some time, the only relevant analysis extends beyond five years. We extend their analysis by adding three more years of data, control for the effects of crack cocaine, control for dynamic effects, and correct the standard errors for clustering. We find that there is an initial increase in crime due to passage of the shall-issue law that is dwarfed over time by the decrease in crime associated with the post-law trend. These results are very similar to those of Ayres and Donohue, properly interpreted. The modified Ayres and Donohue model finds that shall-issue laws significantly reduce murder and burglary across all the adopting states. These laws appear to significantly increase assault, and have no net effect on rape, robbery, larceny, or auto theft. However, in the long run only the trend coefficients matter. We estimate a net benefit of $450 million per year as a result of the passage of these laws. We also estimate that, up through 2000, there was a cumulative overall net benefit of these laws of $28 billion since their passage. We think that there is credible statistical evidence that these laws lower the costs of crime.

But at the very least, the present study should neutralize any “more guns, more crime” thinking based on Ayres and Donohue’s work in the Stanford Law Review. We acknowledge that, especially in light of the methodological issues of the literature in general, the magnitudes derived from our analysis of crime statistics and the supposed costs of crime might be dwarfed by other considerations in judging the policy issue.


Some might contend that allowing individuals to carry a concealed weapon is a moral or cultural bad. Others might contend that greater liberty is a moral or cultural good. All we are confident in saying is that the evidence, such as it is, seems to support the hypothesis that the shall-issue law is generally beneficial with respect to its overall long run effect on crime.



The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws · Econ Journal Watch : shall-issue, crime, handguns, concealed weapons

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident

Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.

No drugs, no violent movies, no broken homes, no gang members.

No consequences either. Life is cheap in the US.

And here....

Cabbie shoots would-be armed robber, police say

A robbery suspect was shot by his intended victim Monday morning at Greenwood Manor Apartments.

City police said a local cab driver picked up the suspect on the Indiana State University campus before 10:45 a.m. Monday and took him to an apartment on 19th Street.


Officer Ryan Adamson said the suspect exited the 1st Choice cab and then pulled a gun on the cab driver, intending to rob the man. The cab driver, however, pulled out a firearm and shot the suspect, who then ran off.

Police found the suspect in the 2100 block of 231/2 Drive after he called for medical help, Adamson said. The suspect was taken to a local hospital for medical treatment of non-life-threatening injuries.

Some truly heroic stories there. Not very many though.

Those are the stories that make the news....the stories where the victim runs off the criminal don't make the news.....since there isn't a need to report a rape, robbery or attempted murder that didn't happen because the victim drove off the criminal before the violent crime was completed against the victim.

So your claims can only be validated by events that nobody has any record of ?

Nope, as the 17 studies show, they used actual research methods to ferret out gun self defense that goes under reported in the news.....the Centers for Disease Control did this research as well as the Department of Justice.....

So for events that happened, for example, in April where can I go to study the reports ? Who keeps the log ?

 

[M14 Shooter]

What conservatives know is that no one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns.

This is an outright lie - in fact, at least one of the Democrats up for President wants that very thing.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The measures proposed by those concerned with gun deaths among children are perfectly Constitutional;

This is a lie; you are well aware of the fact a legal requirement for a gun owner to secure his guns is unconstitutional.

seeking to ‘ban’ abortion and to compel women to give birth against their will through force of law is not.

This is a lie; you are well aware of the fact Roe v Wade gives the state broad power in regard for any pregnancy in its 3rd trimester, including prohibition of same.

Why do you need to lie to make a point?

 

[M14 Shooter]

So for events that happened, for example, in April where can I go to study the reports ? Who keeps the log ?

What's that?
Forced to move the goalposts?
No surprise.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

So for events that happened, for example, in April where can I go to study the reports ? Who keeps the log ?

What's that?
Forced to move the goalposts?
No surprise.

Goalposts haven't moved. I am interested in the primary sources, not exaggerated claims. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction.

 

[K9Buck]

Coroner rules fatal shooting of 4-year-old an accident

Picked up a gun in the house and shot himself with his dads gun.

No drugs, no violent movies, no broken homes, no gang members.

No consequences either. Life is cheap in the US.

Just pretend he was aborted, then you will no longer give a fuck.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So for events that happened, for example, in April where can I go to study the reports ? Who keeps the log ?

What's that?
Forced to move the goalposts?
No surprise.

Goalposts haven't moved. I am interested in the primary sources, not exaggerated claims.

No you aren't.
Does the fact an event is not recorded by the state mean said even did not occur?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Oh hey! Look what as on the news tonight:

Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun
Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Oh hey! Look what as on the news tonight:

Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun
Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun

Spamming up the thread with anecdotal nonsense shows how little you have. Where are all the other verified incidents ?

 

[2aguy]

Oh hey! Look what as on the news tonight:

Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun
Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun

Spamming up the thread with anecdotal nonsense shows how little you have. Where are all the other verified incidents ?

I gave you 17 studies conducted by both private and government research groups...including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice.....you refuse to acknowledge those sources and then, after demanding actual stories, you dismiss those too.....

Typical anti-gun zealot....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Oh hey! Look what as on the news tonight:

Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun
Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun

Spamming up the thread with anecdotal nonsense shows how little you have. Where are all the other verified incidents ?

I gave you 17 studies conducted by both private and government research groups...including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice.....you refuse to acknowledge those sources and then, after demanding actual stories, you dismiss those too.....

Typical anti-gun zealot....

What did you expect? That this lying piece of human excrement would admit he is wrong?

 

[2aguy]

Oh hey! Look what as on the news tonight:

Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun
Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun

Spamming up the thread with anecdotal nonsense shows how little you have. Where are all the other verified incidents ?

I gave you 17 studies conducted by both private and government research groups...including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice.....you refuse to acknowledge those sources and then, after demanding actual stories, you dismiss those too.....

Typical anti-gun zealot....

What did you expect? That this lying piece of human excrement would admit he is wrong?

Nope...just pointing out for the random reader the typical behavior of those who oppose people saving lives with guns....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Oh hey! Look what as on the news tonight:
Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun
Would-be robber shows hatchet, clerk pulls out gun

Spamming up the thread with...

...proof?
Yeah, I know -- you hate to be proven wrong.
Not my problem, however.