Rethinking Opposition to the Healthcare Bill

[GHook93]

My main opposition is that I read the Caterpillar, 3M etc complaints of how much it would cost them and that heads would roll. I thought America was heading down a scary road. HOWEVER, we are not seeing these negative effects. Without these negative effects, the positives might outweigh the negatives:
(1) Getting rid of preexisting condition:
No one cares about this until it effects you personally. My brother-in-law has MS. His ex-wife and him had insurance through a corporation she started. With the marriage over 4 months ago. she dropped him immediately from her insurance. Not sure if anyone knows the cost of MS, but its enormous. The drugs are insane and the doctor visits and test cost an arm and a leg. Its nutz. After she dropped him, he tried to get insurance. Guess what! He couldn't get it ANYWHERE! He went to the Ichips program, it has a 8 month waiting period and then it doesn't cover his doctors and not all his medicine. In other words, he is screwed. Its been months since he has had his medicine and he is getting decidedly worse.

(2) Requiring everyone to get insurance:
It sounded unfair at first, but when you think about it. Its pretty damn unfair that MY insurance bills are so high to cover all the people without insurance. Young people who seem healthy today (like me - I haven't been in a doctors office, other than a physical in 5 years), can get sick tomorrow or get injured. Sorry hospitals shouldn't have to force the bill upon payors.

What I don't like:
(1) They didn't allow for further competition across state lines
(2) They didn't find a way to get insurance away from employer based plans.
(3) Did nothing to deal with the 10 lb Gorilla in the room! Illegal immigrants destroying emergency rooms budgets and getting free healthcare at our expense!

All and all I am going to look at the bill in a new light and wait until we start seeing how it changes things and withhold my opinions until then.

 

[chanel]

I agree about the pre-existing conditions, and I think most people would. But regarding the mandatory insurance: ILLEGALS should have to pay as well as soon as they show up in the ER. And I believe the fine is only $750. Not a big incentive when the insurance bill can be 10x that. I expect young healthy people will ignore the mandate until they actually have to go to the hospital.

 

[GHook93]

I agree about the pre-existing conditions, and I think most people would. But regarding the mandatory insurance: ILLEGALS should have to pay as well as soon as they show up in the ER. And I believe the fine is only $750. Not a big incentive when the insurance bill can be 10x that. I expect young healthy people will ignore the mandate until they actually have to go to the hospital.

I forgot the illegals. I added that in as things I don't like.

Healthly youths usually don't care until they go to the hospital. However, I do like being able to stay on mom and Dad's health insurance until 25.

 

[chanel]

So does my son. Aaaaggghhh! The thing that ticks me off is the few times I've had to appeal, they needed HIS friggin permission. It's MY bill!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

My main opposition is that I read the Caterpillar, 3M etc complaints of how much it would cost them and that heads would roll. I thought America was heading down a scary road. HOWEVER, we are not seeing these negative effects. Without these negative effects, the positives might outweigh the negatives:
(1) Getting rid of preexisting condition:
No one cares about this until it effects you personally. My brother-in-law has MS. His ex-wife and him had insurance through a corporation she started. With the marriage over 4 months ago. she dropped him immediately from her insurance. Not sure if anyone knows the cost of MS, but its enormous. The drugs are insane and the doctor visits and test cost an arm and a leg. Its nutz. After she dropped him, he tried to get insurance. Guess what! He couldn't get it ANYWHERE! He went to the Ichips program, it has a 8 month waiting period and then it doesn't cover his doctors and not all his medicine. In other words, he is screwed. Its been months since he has had his medicine and he is getting decidedly worse.

(2) Requiring everyone to get insurance:
It sounded unfair at first, but when you think about it. Its pretty damn unfair that MY insurance bills are so high to cover all the people without insurance. Young people who seem healthy today (like me - I haven't been in a doctors office, other than a physical in 5 years), can get sick tomorrow or get injured. Sorry hospitals shouldn't have to force the bill upon payors.

What I don't like:
(1) They didn't allow for further competition across state lines
(2) They didn't find a way to get insurance away from employer based plans.
(3) Did nothing to deal with the 10 lb Gorilla in the room! Illegal immigrants destroying emergency rooms budgets and getting free healthcare at our expense!

All and all I am going to look at the bill in a new light and wait until we start seeing how it changes things and withhold my opinions until then.

The claims of costs by Caterpillar and others are true.

Inquiry Says Health Care Charges Were Proper - NYTimes.com

As a result many companies are considering dropping their insurance coverage and paying the fine, thus forcing more people into the government subsidized program and simultaneously increasing costs and lowering revenue.

Obamacare's Hidden Costs by Paul Howard, City Journal 13 May 2010
Johanns: Major companies consider dropping insurance - Omaha.com

It appears that even the worst predictions about the disaster we are headed toward were wrong on the conservative side.

As for forcing everyone to buy insurance, why are you OK with forcing people to buy something they neither want or need? Most people can get buy with routine medical care and never need to worry about major medical expenses. Catastrophic health insurance would supply most Americans with all the coverage they need, and would cost much less for individuals.

While I sympathize with those who have preexisting conditions, I fail to see why everyone should be required to cover them. Requiring insurers to supply coverage to high risk patients might make sense in an ideal world, but the pool of people forced to pay for it should be restricted to those who have them and those who want to support them by paying higher coverage themselves.

To be honest, I fail to see why the insurance I get through my employer requires me to pay for services that I personally will never use. State laws continue to force insurance companies to cover more and more things just because the politicians want to make points. We need insurance reform, not more regulations forcing insurance companies to cover things that most people do not need.

 

[GHook93]

So does my son. Aaaaggghhh! The thing that ticks me off is the few times I've had to appeal, they needed HIS friggin permission. It's MY bill!

And that bill with be through the roof!

 

[blu]

much would be fixed if employer based insurance went away. pre-existing conditions should also be dropped and insurance companies forced to actually cover people instead of dropping them as soon as they get sick.

 

[blu]

also, I am 23 and currently pay for my own insurance, but as soon as I can I am getting back on my dad's plan. fuck those assholes for dropping me the second I finished my last exam in college

 

[boedicca]

Requiring everyone to get insurance punishes healthy people who take care of themselves by forcing them to subsidize care for smokers, drinkers, drug abusers and fat fatties.

 

[mudwhistle]

My main opposition is that I read the Caterpillar, 3M etc complaints of how much it would cost them and that heads would roll. I thought America was heading down a scary road. HOWEVER, we are not seeing these negative effects. Without these negative effects, the positives might outweigh the negatives:
(1) Getting rid of preexisting condition:
No one cares about this until it effects you personally. My brother-in-law has MS. His ex-wife and him had insurance through a corporation she started. With the marriage over 4 months ago. she dropped him immediately from her insurance. Not sure if anyone knows the cost of MS, but its enormous. The drugs are insane and the doctor visits and test cost an arm and a leg. Its nutz. After she dropped him, he tried to get insurance. Guess what! He couldn't get it ANYWHERE! He went to the Ichips program, it has a 8 month waiting period and then it doesn't cover his doctors and not all his medicine. In other words, he is screwed. Its been months since he has had his medicine and he is getting decidedly worse.

(2) Requiring everyone to get insurance:
It sounded unfair at first, but when you think about it. Its pretty damn unfair that MY insurance bills are so high to cover all the people without insurance. Young people who seem healthy today (like me - I haven't been in a doctors office, other than a physical in 5 years), can get sick tomorrow or get injured. Sorry hospitals shouldn't have to force the bill upon payors.

What I don't like:
(1) They didn't allow for further competition across state lines
(2) They didn't find a way to get insurance away from employer based plans.
(3) Did nothing to deal with the 10 lb Gorilla in the room! Illegal immigrants destroying emergency rooms budgets and getting free healthcare at our expense!

All and all I am going to look at the bill in a new light and wait until we start seeing how it changes things and withhold my opinions until then.

Very few of the problems in health care are addressed in the bill. It's not meant to solve much of anything. Removal of pre-existing conditions will bankrupt insurance companies. But in the short run it will cause your premiums to sky-rocket. And of course Obama will demonize insurance companies because of it.

It's merely a power-grab and a huge march to socialism intended to bring down our economy so billionaires can get rich off the mess.

 

[GHook93]

The claims of costs by Caterpillar and others are true.

Inquiry Says Health Care Charges Were Proper - NYTimes.com

As a result many companies are considering dropping their insurance coverage and paying the fine, thus forcing more people into the government subsidized program and simultaneously increasing costs and lowering revenue.

Obamacare's Hidden Costs by Paul Howard, City Journal 13 May 2010
Johanns: Major companies consider dropping insurance - Omaha.com

I believe there will be a cost to business and it still scares the hell out of me and if the effect are even half of what they say they could be then I will reverse opinion again.

It appears that even the worst predictions about the disaster we are headed toward were wrong on the conservative side.

I sure hope so!

As for forcing everyone to buy insurance, why are you OK with forcing people to buy something they neither want or need? Most people can get buy with routine medical care and never need to worry about major medical expenses. Catastrophic health insurance would supply most Americans with all the coverage they need, and would cost much less for individuals.

I am a big believer in pre-existing conditions that raise premium and deny coverage need to be done away with. The only way to do that is balance the risk aka the young and health must get insurance also.

While I sympathize with those who have preexisting conditions, I fail to see why everyone should be required to cover them. Requiring insurers to supply coverage to high risk patients might make sense in an ideal world, but the pool of people forced to pay for it should be restricted to those who have them and those who want to support them by paying higher coverage themselves.

Wait until it hits home for you! I have agree to pitch in some cash to cover my brother-in-law with MS until medicare finally accepts him. However, he can't even get coverage. In the richest country in the world is an injustice!

To be honest, I fail to see why the insurance I get through my employer requires me to pay for services that I personally will never use. State laws continue to force insurance companies to cover more and more things just because the politicians want to make points. We need insurance reform, not more regulations forcing insurance companies to cover things that most people do not need.

I personally like the Republican plan that was proposed and of course the media ignored it. They wanted to get insurance away from employer sponsored plans. That way you could customize your plan to your needs and it would remove a serious disadvantage to that US companies face on the global market.

 

[GHook93]

much would be fixed if employer based insurance went away. pre-existing conditions should also be dropped and insurance companies forced to actually cover people instead of dropping them as soon as they get sick.

Damn bluballs for once I agree with ya!

 

[GHook93]

Requiring everyone to get insurance punishes healthy people who take care of themselves by forcing them to subsidize care for smokers, drinkers, drug abusers and fat fatties.

True, but NOTHING in the bill doesn't allow insurance companies to increase premiums for smokers, drinkers, drug abusers and fat asses! It doesn't allow for preexisting conditions, which is different.

 

[jeffrockit]

My main opposition is that I read the Caterpillar, 3M etc complaints of how much it would cost them and that heads would roll. I thought America was heading down a scary road. HOWEVER, we are not seeing these negative effects. Without these negative effects, the positives might outweigh the negatives:
(1) Getting rid of preexisting condition:
No one cares about this until it effects you personally. My brother-in-law has MS. His ex-wife and him had insurance through a corporation she started. With the marriage over 4 months ago. she dropped him immediately from her insurance. Not sure if anyone knows the cost of MS, but its enormous. The drugs are insane and the doctor visits and test cost an arm and a leg. Its nutz. After she dropped him, he tried to get insurance. Guess what! He couldn't get it ANYWHERE! He went to the Ichips program, it has a 8 month waiting period and then it doesn't cover his doctors and not all his medicine. In other words, he is screwed. Its been months since he has had his medicine and he is getting decidedly worse.

(2) Requiring everyone to get insurance:
It sounded unfair at first, but when you think about it. Its pretty damn unfair that MY insurance bills are so high to cover all the people without insurance. Young people who seem healthy today (like me - I haven't been in a doctors office, other than a physical in 5 years), can get sick tomorrow or get injured. Sorry hospitals shouldn't have to force the bill upon payors.

What I don't like:
(1) They didn't allow for further competition across state lines
(2) They didn't find a way to get insurance away from employer based plans.
(3) Did nothing to deal with the 10 lb Gorilla in the room! Illegal immigrants destroying emergency rooms budgets and getting free healthcare at our expense!

All and all I am going to look at the bill in a new light and wait until we start seeing how it changes things and withhold my opinions until then.

Do you have a problem with the new projections the CBO came out with this week that puts the HC bill over 1 trillion dollars? They claim they underestimated by over 1 billion dollars. You do realize this is just the tip of the iceberg?
I have a problem with paying into the HC "system" for the first 4 years before any benefits. It's like buying a car but then are told you can't drive it for the 1st 4 years but have to pay.

 

[GHook93]

My main opposition is that I read the Caterpillar, 3M etc complaints of how much it would cost them and that heads would roll. I thought America was heading down a scary road. HOWEVER, we are not seeing these negative effects. Without these negative effects, the positives might outweigh the negatives:
(1) Getting rid of preexisting condition:
No one cares about this until it effects you personally. My brother-in-law has MS. His ex-wife and him had insurance through a corporation she started. With the marriage over 4 months ago. she dropped him immediately from her insurance. Not sure if anyone knows the cost of MS, but its enormous. The drugs are insane and the doctor visits and test cost an arm and a leg. Its nutz. After she dropped him, he tried to get insurance. Guess what! He couldn't get it ANYWHERE! He went to the Ichips program, it has a 8 month waiting period and then it doesn't cover his doctors and not all his medicine. In other words, he is screwed. Its been months since he has had his medicine and he is getting decidedly worse.

(2) Requiring everyone to get insurance:
It sounded unfair at first, but when you think about it. Its pretty damn unfair that MY insurance bills are so high to cover all the people without insurance. Young people who seem healthy today (like me - I haven't been in a doctors office, other than a physical in 5 years), can get sick tomorrow or get injured. Sorry hospitals shouldn't have to force the bill upon payors.

What I don't like:
(1) They didn't allow for further competition across state lines
(2) They didn't find a way to get insurance away from employer based plans.
(3) Did nothing to deal with the 10 lb Gorilla in the room! Illegal immigrants destroying emergency rooms budgets and getting free healthcare at our expense!

All and all I am going to look at the bill in a new light and wait until we start seeing how it changes things and withhold my opinions until then.

Do you have a problem with the new projections the CBO came out with this week that puts the HC bill over 1 trillion dollars? They claim they underestimated by over 1 billion dollars. You do realize this is just the tip of the iceberg?
I have a problem with paying into the HC "system" for the first 4 years before any benefits. It's like buying a car but then are told you can't drive it for the 1st 4 years but have to pay.

Haven't seen it, please educate!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

My main opposition is that I read the Caterpillar, 3M etc complaints of how much it would cost them and that heads would roll. I thought America was heading down a scary road. HOWEVER, we are not seeing these negative effects. Without these negative effects, the positives might outweigh the negatives:
(1) Getting rid of preexisting condition:
No one cares about this until it effects you personally. My brother-in-law has MS. His ex-wife and him had insurance through a corporation she started. With the marriage over 4 months ago. she dropped him immediately from her insurance. Not sure if anyone knows the cost of MS, but its enormous. The drugs are insane and the doctor visits and test cost an arm and a leg. Its nutz. After she dropped him, he tried to get insurance. Guess what! He couldn't get it ANYWHERE! He went to the Ichips program, it has a 8 month waiting period and then it doesn't cover his doctors and not all his medicine. In other words, he is screwed. Its been months since he has had his medicine and he is getting decidedly worse.

(2) Requiring everyone to get insurance:
It sounded unfair at first, but when you think about it. Its pretty damn unfair that MY insurance bills are so high to cover all the people without insurance. Young people who seem healthy today (like me - I haven't been in a doctors office, other than a physical in 5 years), can get sick tomorrow or get injured. Sorry hospitals shouldn't have to force the bill upon payors.

What I don't like:
(1) They didn't allow for further competition across state lines
(2) They didn't find a way to get insurance away from employer based plans.
(3) Did nothing to deal with the 10 lb Gorilla in the room! Illegal immigrants destroying emergency rooms budgets and getting free healthcare at our expense!

All and all I am going to look at the bill in a new light and wait until we start seeing how it changes things and withhold my opinions until then.

Do you have a problem with the new projections the CBO came out with this week that puts the HC bill over 1 trillion dollars? They claim they underestimated by over 1 billion dollars. You do realize this is just the tip of the iceberg?
I have a problem with paying into the HC "system" for the first 4 years before any benefits. It's like buying a car but then are told you can't drive it for the 1st 4 years but have to pay.

Haven't seen it, please educate!

Health ‘reform' costs just keep going up and up | The News-Sentinel - Fort Wayne IN

 

[jeffrockit]

My main opposition is that I read the Caterpillar, 3M etc complaints of how much it would cost them and that heads would roll. I thought America was heading down a scary road. HOWEVER, we are not seeing these negative effects. Without these negative effects, the positives might outweigh the negatives:
(1) Getting rid of preexisting condition:
No one cares about this until it effects you personally. My brother-in-law has MS. His ex-wife and him had insurance through a corporation she started. With the marriage over 4 months ago. she dropped him immediately from her insurance. Not sure if anyone knows the cost of MS, but its enormous. The drugs are insane and the doctor visits and test cost an arm and a leg. Its nutz. After she dropped him, he tried to get insurance. Guess what! He couldn't get it ANYWHERE! He went to the Ichips program, it has a 8 month waiting period and then it doesn't cover his doctors and not all his medicine. In other words, he is screwed. Its been months since he has had his medicine and he is getting decidedly worse.

(2) Requiring everyone to get insurance:
It sounded unfair at first, but when you think about it. Its pretty damn unfair that MY insurance bills are so high to cover all the people without insurance. Young people who seem healthy today (like me - I haven't been in a doctors office, other than a physical in 5 years), can get sick tomorrow or get injured. Sorry hospitals shouldn't have to force the bill upon payors.

What I don't like:
(1) They didn't allow for further competition across state lines
(2) They didn't find a way to get insurance away from employer based plans.
(3) Did nothing to deal with the 10 lb Gorilla in the room! Illegal immigrants destroying emergency rooms budgets and getting free healthcare at our expense!

All and all I am going to look at the bill in a new light and wait until we start seeing how it changes things and withhold my opinions until then.

Do you have a problem with the new projections the CBO came out with this week that puts the HC bill over 1 trillion dollars? They claim they underestimated by over 1 billion dollars. You do realize this is just the tip of the iceberg?
I have a problem with paying into the HC "system" for the first 4 years before any benefits. It's like buying a car but then are told you can't drive it for the 1st 4 years but have to pay.

Haven't seen it, please educate!

You bet, here is the link stating the new CBO projections though this is not much of a shock to most who know that govt always underestimates all entitlement programs so they will pass.
CBO ups health care cost projections - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

Here is a link regarding the pay 10 years for 6 years of benefits.
PolitiFact | Tiahrt: Health care bill will collect 10 years of taxes for six years of services

 

[code1211]

My main opposition is that I read the Caterpillar, 3M etc complaints of how much it would cost them and that heads would roll. I thought America was heading down a scary road. HOWEVER, we are not seeing these negative effects. Without these negative effects, the positives might outweigh the negatives:
(1) Getting rid of preexisting condition:
No one cares about this until it effects you personally. My brother-in-law has MS. His ex-wife and him had insurance through a corporation she started. With the marriage over 4 months ago. she dropped him immediately from her insurance. Not sure if anyone knows the cost of MS, but its enormous. The drugs are insane and the doctor visits and test cost an arm and a leg. Its nutz. After she dropped him, he tried to get insurance. Guess what! He couldn't get it ANYWHERE! He went to the Ichips program, it has a 8 month waiting period and then it doesn't cover his doctors and not all his medicine. In other words, he is screwed. Its been months since he has had his medicine and he is getting decidedly worse.

(2) Requiring everyone to get insurance:
It sounded unfair at first, but when you think about it. Its pretty damn unfair that MY insurance bills are so high to cover all the people without insurance. Young people who seem healthy today (like me - I haven't been in a doctors office, other than a physical in 5 years), can get sick tomorrow or get injured. Sorry hospitals shouldn't have to force the bill upon payors.

What I don't like:
(1) They didn't allow for further competition across state lines
(2) They didn't find a way to get insurance away from employer based plans.
(3) Did nothing to deal with the 10 lb Gorilla in the room! Illegal immigrants destroying emergency rooms budgets and getting free healthcare at our expense!

All and all I am going to look at the bill in a new light and wait until we start seeing how it changes things and withhold my opinions until then.

The deficiencies in our health care system are pretty much what you cited. Those are the things that should be fixed. Nothing else.

Consider the only Federally run hospitalization program in the country, the VA, and then tell me that the Feds know how to care for patients.

A good anaolgy would be to imagine that this country had no military at all and decided that we needed to have a military like the one we have grown over the last 200 years. The one we currently have is pretty effective, but it's awful expensive and complex.

The Big 0 has never dealt with things as big as he is dealing with right now and does not understand what he's doing. He is a greater danger to our way of life than Al-Qaeda.

 

[code1211]

My main opposition is that I read the Caterpillar, 3M etc complaints of how much it would cost them and that heads would roll. I thought America was heading down a scary road. HOWEVER, we are not seeing these negative effects. Without these negative effects, the positives might outweigh the negatives:
(1) Getting rid of preexisting condition:
No one cares about this until it effects you personally. My brother-in-law has MS. His ex-wife and him had insurance through a corporation she started. With the marriage over 4 months ago. she dropped him immediately from her insurance. Not sure if anyone knows the cost of MS, but its enormous. The drugs are insane and the doctor visits and test cost an arm and a leg. Its nutz. After she dropped him, he tried to get insurance. Guess what! He couldn't get it ANYWHERE! He went to the Ichips program, it has a 8 month waiting period and then it doesn't cover his doctors and not all his medicine. In other words, he is screwed. Its been months since he has had his medicine and he is getting decidedly worse.

(2) Requiring everyone to get insurance:
It sounded unfair at first, but when you think about it. Its pretty damn unfair that MY insurance bills are so high to cover all the people without insurance. Young people who seem healthy today (like me - I haven't been in a doctors office, other than a physical in 5 years), can get sick tomorrow or get injured. Sorry hospitals shouldn't have to force the bill upon payors.

What I don't like:
(1) They didn't allow for further competition across state lines
(2) They didn't find a way to get insurance away from employer based plans.
(3) Did nothing to deal with the 10 lb Gorilla in the room! Illegal immigrants destroying emergency rooms budgets and getting free healthcare at our expense!

All and all I am going to look at the bill in a new light and wait until we start seeing how it changes things and withhold my opinions until then.

Do you have a problem with the new projections the CBO came out with this week that puts the HC bill over 1 trillion dollars? They claim they underestimated by over 1 billion dollars. You do realize this is just the tip of the iceberg?
I have a problem with paying into the HC "system" for the first 4 years before any benefits. It's like buying a car but then are told you can't drive it for the 1st 4 years but have to pay.

You are also being told that you must continue to pay for it after it has broken down and it is costing you to have it parked, useless, while others sit in it and smoke. You are also being told that you will never be allowed to buy a different one.

If this sounds like Socialism, you might want to ask yourself why it sounds like Socialism.

 

[chanel]

Has anyone noticed any changes to their healthcare or insurance lately (besides premiums)? We have BC/BS Traditional, which costs my employer close to $17K. For the past 20 years, they paid for virtually everything. However, in the past few months I have had to appeal two claims and my husband was just DENIED a stress test. The doctor is appealing that one. Let the rationing begin!